St. Bonaventure - Game 2

[RichmondNative]

Clean block. Now it was close. Maybe like tie goes to runner in baseball. but obvious goaltend? No way let’s not be homers. Even Beckwith saw replay & said good call.

This “homer” was in the building and in real time it looked like a goal tend. Not sure what the most appropriate adjective should be. As you may know, the RC isn’t the best at showing replays (unless it is a highlight for the opposition), so I didn’t get a good second look.

It was a night full of questionable calls and poor officiating, so that taints my view also. It was the type of call that “typically” goes in favor of the home team, which means it rarely goes in favor of the Spiders. Because if this “history”, the Spiders should never expect the benefit of calls and need to play on and focus on the next play.

To be crystal clear, I am not blaming the officials and being a “homer”. It is status quo for a game at the Robins Center. I don’t think I can name a game with good officiating since I have been attending games. The calls are terrible, live with it and play better.

 

[spider23]

Yep, seemed to be a ton of questionable calls both ways. The refs had a pretty big miss rate. The Bona fans were enraged over the Burton lean in 3pt shooting foul. That one, while at first I agreed with, IF you look carefully, the Bona defender did lean forward and his harm were forward just slightly, not straight up. On Dji's drive, at first Beck said that was a goaltend. Then on the replay, he seemed to think the defender got it just before it hit the backboard. As discussed above, it was very very close.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

I thought the last 3-4 mins the refs kinda changed the game. Now I haven’t rewatched yet and just my point from seeing live. Our guys were getting clobbered with no calls esp while driving. Venning should have fouled out in the 1st that guy was a walking foul. The female ref was terrible, TV Teddy was well…TV Teddy and the other guy, his call on Goose near the end was atrocious. But I’ll go back tomorrow and rewatch and it could be I’m wrong. I also thought Djis drive and layup was goal tending but again just looking at video board it was kinda hard to tell. But at the end of the day we didn’t hit shots.

Goose pulled the guy's shirt, which is basically an automatic call. Yet another in a long, long history of head-scratching stuff from a very experienced player. He's good for 1 or 2 a game.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

I thought Mooney was awful in the Dayton game. Today I thought it really came down to bad shooting and, at the end, shot selection. Of course, Mooney's subbing and lack of adjustments were noticeable, but at the end of the day, you have to make wide open three pointers. Period.

And Bigelow should not be taking three pointers at critical junctures in the game.

 

[SpiderDad75]

Goose pulled the guy's shirt, which is basically an automatic call. Yet another in a long, long history of head-scratching stuff from a very experienced player. He's good for 1 or 2 a game.

The one I was thinking was right when they got over half court it looked as if Goose barely tapped him on the fingers. But haven't be able to see the game replay yet and you may be talking of the same play.

 

[GKiller]

This “homer” was in the building and in real time it looked like a goal tend. Not sure what the most appropriate adjective should be. As you may know, the RC isn’t the best at showing replays (unless it is a highlight for the opposition), so I didn’t get a good second look.

It was a night full of questionable calls and poor officiating, so that taints my view also. It was the type of call that “typically” goes in favor of the home team, which means it rarely goes in favor of the Spiders. Because if this “history”, the Spiders should never expect the benefit of calls and need to play on and focus on the next play.

To be crystal clear, I am not blaming the officials and being a “homer”. It is status quo for a game at the Robins Center. I don’t think I can name a game with good officiating since I have been attending games. The calls are terrible, live with it and play better.

No worries. Looked clean but close live & replay confirmed. Just not sure how it could ever be described as being cheated or obvious. But it can be much harder to tell in person depending on your view.

 

[spider fan]

Seemed live that ref signaled 1 and 1 as well

Yes he did and then realizing he had called the basket good changed it to a 1 shot foul. Called the foul and then the shooter shot. No logical way both calls could be made. The female ref talked to him about what he had done and he changed it to the "and one."

 

[GKiller]

I thought the last 3-4 mins the refs kinda changed the game. Now I haven’t rewatched yet and just my point from seeing live. Our guys were getting clobbered with no calls esp while driving. Venning should have fouled out in the 1st that guy was a walking foul. The female ref was terrible, TV Teddy was well…TV Teddy and the other guy, his call on Goose near the end was atrocious. But I’ll go back tomorrow and rewatch and it could be I’m wrong. I also thought Djis drive and layup was goal tending but again just looking at video board it was kinda hard to tell. But at the end of the day we didn’t hit shots.

Think u will have different take rewatching but who knows. May be a “need to watch more college basketball” in general deal. We were already down 7 w 3-4 mins to go. Not sure what goose call u mean. There was a loose ball on floor where he fought to get the tie up but that may have even been a generous call. He intentionally fouled on another. I didn’t like them bailing out Burton on that 3 either. The Dji block was reviewable they didn’t even review it that tells u all u need to know. No questions at all postgame about any controversial calls either. I’m not saying we’ve never been on bad end of officiating but to feel cheated over that game? Idk I swear some ppl feel their team should start on a power play. UNC fans, Cowboys, Lakers, Yankees…they all feel like they get jobbed every game lol.

 

[spiderman]

we defended well for the most part. maybe Venning got too many inside. their 2 shooters did hit some shots. a few bad turnovers.

but the song remains the same. we just don't shoot well enough. we knew that might be a problem this year. but we assumed Burton and Roche would offset the non-shooters. they're 22.4% and 29.7% respectively from 3 in conference. I'm still with the "start Bigs" crowd. he does some good things. but man ... the guy's shooting 25% from 3 in conference.

Dji played pretty well on both ends. I'd split him and Nelson 20/20. but the problem remains that we don't have enough offense in the front court to play 2 defense-first guards together who combine for less than 10 ppg.

I don't see answers this year unless guys start hitting shots.

 

[Eight Legger]

Could it be that they're shooting poorly because our offense isn't getting them great looks? 🤔🤔🤔

 

[spiderman]

Could it be that they're shooting poorly because our offense isn't getting them great looks? 🤔🤔🤔

you saw the game. we had plenty of good looks. no offense is going to make it look like a warm up shooting drill. you have to make some contested shots. but we get as many open looks as anyone.

 

[97spiderfan]

Goose pulled the guy's shirt, which is basically an automatic call. Yet another in a long, long history of head-scratching stuff from a very experienced player. He's good for 1 or 2 a game.

Just a terrible play from a guy is a senior and is on the court for his defense. All we needed was a stop and we had a chance to play for the tie (which assuredly we would have f*cked that up too) but once the foul was committed, the game was pretty much over at that point. Would love to know if it was intentional or not.

 

[spider fan]

Shooting percentages of overall, threes, free throws

37.5%

20.8%

95.5%

won't win games unless you can draw lots of fouls. Hard to understand why our shooting from the floor has become so anemic?

 

[Eight Legger]

you saw the game. we had plenty of good looks. no offense is going to make it look like a warm up shooting drill. you have to make some contested shots. but we get as many open looks as anyone.

... except for our opponents

 

[Spider B]

Just a terrible play from a guy is a senior and is on the court for his defense. All we needed was a stop and we had a chance to play for the tie (which assuredly we would have f*cked that up too) but once the foul was committed, the game was pretty much over at that point. Would love to know if it was intentional or not.

That foul occurred immediately following a time out. Unacceptable

 

[Not-A-Homer]

you saw the game. we had plenty of good looks. no offense is going to make it look like a warm up shooting drill. you have to make some contested shots. but we get as many open looks as anyone.

Take a group of players who aren't the best shooters to begin with, add; low average passing skills (especially, but not exclusively from your former starting point guard), add; mandatorily throwing the ball around aimlessly out front several times each possession with no intent to score, add; forced "hurried shots" at the end to beat the shot clock, you have a recipe for a shooting percentage that needs improvement.

 

[97spiderfan]

Shooting percentages of overall, threes, free throws

37.5%

20.8%

95.5%

won't win games unless you can draw lots of fouls. Hard to understand why our shooting from the floor has become so anemic?

Cause outside of Roche, our shooters lack good form, and thus are not great shooters. Our strength this year is in the interior, so of course Mooney runs an offense designed to shoot lots of 3's. You really would have to try hard to design an offense so counter to the talent on your roster, but Mooney sure has hit that mark well.

 

[Spider B]

Shooting percentages of overall, threes, free throws

37.5%

20.8%

95.5%

won't win games unless you can draw lots of fouls. Hard to understand why our shooting from the floor has become so anemic?

Have to find more open, quality looks for Roche. How about running a play to get him a freaking shot? And put Quinn on the block. Out of halftime, we went on a 7-2 run. Quinn was a big part of it in the paint. I'm not sure he took another shot in the game! Get him off the 3 point line and on the block where a 7 footer should play! Offense has to adjust to fit the roster. At least CM tried something different finally giving Dji a chance. He did well, but we only got 9 points from starting guards. Simply not good enough.

 

[GKiller]

Just a terrible play from a guy is a senior and is on the court for his defense. All we needed was a stop and we had a chance to play for the tie (which assuredly we would have f*cked that up too) but once the foul was committed, the game was pretty much over at that point. Would love to know if it was intentional or not.

I think it was. I defend Goose but that was wrong play. At very least force Adams to pass to someone else but best strategy was play possession out. Minimal contact but to me he gave intention of fouling w a swipe so I understand why ref called. Don’t agree w kneepad there is long history there. The Charleston foul he had was bad call imo & I want us contesting those. Overall Adams struggled getting going w Goose on him he did a good job defensively but a mistake right there.

 

[spider fan]

Have to find more open, quality looks for Roche. How about running a play to get him a freaking shot? And put Quinn on the block. Out of halftime, we went on a 7-2 run. Quinn was a big part of it in the paint. I'm not sure he took another shot in the game! Get him off the 3 point line and on the block where a 7 footer should play! Offense has to adjust to fit the roster. At least CM tried something different finally giving Dji a chance. He did well, but we only got 9 points from starting guards. Simply not good enough.

Quinn not playing near the basket in the second half like he did in the first half was illogical.

 

[spider fan]

Cause outside of Roche, our shooters lack good form, and thus are not great shooters. Our strength this year is in the interior, so of course Mooney runs an offense designed to shoot lots of 3's. You really would have to try hard to design an offense so counter to the talent on your roster, but Mooney sure has hit that mark well.

Taking the ball to the hoop and drawing fouls outside of Burton and Bigelow was rare. Half of Burton's points were from the free throw line. He's a great player but can't do it all by himself.

 

[ur2K]

Just a terrible play from a guy is a senior and is on the court for his defense. All we needed was a stop and we had a chance to play for the tie (which assuredly we would have f*cked that up too) but once the foul was committed, the game was pretty much over at that point. Would love to know if it was intentional or not.

That was such an odd play - it looked intentional but his reaction didn't line up with it being intentional. Just not a smart play at that point in the game.

 

[spiderman]

Our strength this year is in the interior, so of course Mooney runs an offense designed to shoot lots of 3's.

Quinn is decent on the block and Grace has that back down hook, but I wouldn't call our interior play a strength. I don't think we have a strength outside of Burton.

 

[97spiderfan]

That was such an odd play - it looked intentional but his reaction didn't line up with it being intentional. Just not a smart play at that point in the game.

Yes, I would like to rewatch it to see if he lost game awareness or was trying to play tight defense and got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Either situation is bad and much like the Charlestown game, you can say it was a bad call but you can't put yourself in that situation for the ref to make that call, especially when your calling card for minutes is your defensive prowess.

It would be like Gilly throwing a pass into the 3rd row with the game on the line. You need your best players to do what they do best at critical times and with Goose now several times, we have gotten the opposite. Very frustrating. Loss is not on Goose though, this loss was cooked up by Mooney.

 

[97spiderfan]

Quinn is decent on the block and Grace has that back down hook, but I wouldn't call our interior play a strength. I don't think we have a strength outside of Burton.

Heh, true. But when you have your 7 footer getting the ball out at the 3 point line repeatedly, I think we can all agree that is not where he needs to be.

 

[spider fan]

That only works when Quinn then feeds a player cutting to the basket. Otherwise why he is not under the hoop is nonproductive.

 

[97spiderfan]

That only works when Quinn then feeds a player cutting to the basket. Otherwise why he is not under the hoop is nonproductive.

It worked with Grant but Quinn is not Grant. Also helps that Grant had Gilly as one of his feed options. Right now, if he fed a perfect pass to our PG, Nelson would end up driving to the hoop and then passing it back out for a three ball attempt.

Again, we have different personnel and Mooney is trying to run sets that worked for last year's group and it isn't working, because we have an entirely different team.

 

[GKiller]

That foul occurred immediately following a time out. Unacceptable

& I was expecting a question postgame to Moon about what the plan had been there, what was talked about, seemed like a very reasonable one but we got nothing of course. Instead we got how do u keep the players from getting down & what do u think about Fordham, At least there was a question on decision to start Dji.

 

[SpiderDad75]

Think u will have different take rewatching but who knows. May be a “need to watch more college basketball” in general deal. We were already down 7 w 3-4 mins to go. Not sure what goose call u mean. There was a loose ball on floor where he fought to get the tie up but that may have even been a generous call. He intentionally fouled on another. I didn’t like them bailing out Burton on that 3 either. The Dji block was reviewable they didn’t even review it that tells u all u need to know. No questions at all postgame about any controversial calls either. I’m not saying we’ve never been on bad end of officiating but to feel cheated over that game? Idk I swear some ppl feel their team should start on a power play. UNC fans, Cowboys, Lakers, Yankees…they all feel like they get jobbed every game lol.

Maybe you are like your spouse VT and you've seen all you need to see, who knows, maybe not..what was it by VT some guys maybe played that certain positions in school but they aren't really that in college....maybe its you that need to watch more 🤷‍♂️ and stop throwing slick and shady remarks every time you don't agree. The block isn't the sole reason I thought we were getting screwed over. It being reviewable makes my point, they had the right to review it and chose not to. Review it confirm it and move on. I can live with that bc you reviewed it in a close game. You and others did note it was "very very close" So no, that doesn't tell me all we need to know. IF you paid attention to the game you would know that our guys driving were getting killed and the double teams that came down on the bigs were fouling them every time. (St Bonny received bad calls as well) Vennings fouled Neal every possession and walked numerous times. There are others in the program that thought the same as me...But I'm going to try and study the game film tonight Coach Pop! I know you get real tight when you think someone is criticizing Goose or say anything about him at all(thought he played well last night defensively), but the Goose call was a towards the end. It had zero to do with a loose ball or Gooses fault from what I could see, and yeah it was an intentional foul which looked literally like a graze to the fingers of the Bonnie but like I said I will rewatch: but hey maybe I imagined the Goose call as well Coach...You know how us UNC, Cowboy fans are all the same.

 

[SpiderDad75]

Just a terrible play from a guy is a senior and is on the court for his defense. All we needed was a stop and we had a chance to play for the tie (which assuredly we would have f*cked that up too) but once the foul was committed, the game was pretty much over at that point. Would love to know if it was intentional or not.

Is this the foul that happened immediately after crossing half court? I think maybe it's the one I'm referring too but not sure. I plan on watching the game at least 42 times in the next couple of days so I can learn the nuances of this game I just started watching.

 

[97spiderfan]

Is this the foul that happened immediately after crossing half court? I think maybe it's the one I'm referring too but not sure. I plan on watching the game at least 42 times in the next couple of days so I can learn the nuances of this game I just started watching.

Yes, we were down by 3, about 50 seconds left. Guy crosses mid court and Goose fouls him. Again, I didn't get a look and they didn't replay it but Bob and Beck referenced a pulled jersey and that it was a good call. Let me know what you see.

 

[VT4700]

we defended well for the most part. maybe Venning got too many inside. their 2 shooters did hit some shots. a few bad turnovers.

but the song remains the same. we just don't shoot well enough. we knew that might be a problem this year. but we assumed Burton and Roche would offset the non-shooters. they're 22.4% and 29.7% respectively from 3 in conference. I'm still with the "start Bigs" crowd. he does some good things. but man ... the guy's shooting 25% from 3 in conference.

Dji played pretty well on both ends. I'd split him and Nelson 20/20. but the problem remains that we don't have enough offense in the front court to play 2 defense-first guards together who combine for less than 10 ppg.

I don't see answers this year unless guys start hitting shots.

We had plenty of open looks last night. I'm not sure what the answers are either. Tyler is 11 for his last 54 from 3, but, he obviously needs to be on the floor, and he has to keep shooting 3s. If we just stop shooting 3s, all of the drives and inside stuff will be that much harder. Last year, Tyler got cold from 3 in A-10 play, and Jacob was our only consistent 3 point guy several games. With no Jacob (and if not much scoring this year at PG), combined with a cold shooting Tyler, we will have a hard time scoring. Maybe we need to give both Randolph and Roche a lot of minutes. I don't think this will hurt our defense that much, but even if it does, we are not winning lower scoring games, so maybe we can win some higher scoring games.

I had no issues at all with the change at PG. I have said Nelson is the best option, and I still believe if we make any noise in the A-10 tourney, it will be with Nelson at PG because we need scoring. We need the Nelson we saw against No Iowa, Syracuse, Drake, and Davidson, or at least close enough to that, but the past 5 games coming into last night, Nelson averaged 5.4 points a game, and was 3-14 from 3 during that stretch. So, when you lose 3 in a row, you try to find a spark, so, even though I might not have made the change, I get it. But, I don't think the change affected much. We still need scoring right now.

You guys know how I feel about the 3, and you guys do not like bringing up 2020, but the numbers don't lie:

2020: 24-7 record : 3 volume 3 point shooters shooting 43.8%, 36.7%, and 36.3% from 3.

2023: 11-12 record: 4 volume 3 point shooter shooting 40.6%, 31.2%, 29.4%, and 27.4% from 3.

Now, Jacob, Blake, and Nick aren't walking through the door, so what do we do? Just my opinion, but I would play Randolph and Roche more, and I think Tyler and Nelson need to keep shooting 3s, while Bigelow needs to be more selective. It might seem better to stop shooting 3s when you are missing them, but we aren't going to win much by just not shooting 3s, and we aren't going to win much without Tyler and Nelson (I say Nelson because I think our PG needs to be able to knock down 3s) making 3s and scoring.

 

[spider23]

I will be curious too. It looked like Goose reached out and did a really weak pull on his jersey, like he was intentionally fouling. It was weird because right away Goose had a reaction like he could not believe it - OR he could not believe he did it. Not sure if he accidentally caught the jersey, or just had a mental lapse, or what.

 

[8legs1dream]

We had plenty of open looks last night. I'm not sure what the answers are either. Tyler is 11 for his last 54 from 3, but, he obviously needs to be on the floor, and he has to keep shooting 3s. If we just stop shooting 3s, all of the drives and inside stuff will be that much harder. Last year, Tyler got cold from 3 in A-10 play, and Jacob was our only consistent 3 point guy several games. With no Jacob (and if not much scoring this year at PG), combined with a cold shooting Tyler, we will have a hard time scoring. Maybe we need to give both Randolph and Roche a lot of minutes. I don't think this will hurt our defense that much, but even if it does, we are not winning lower scoring games, so maybe we can win some higher scoring games.

I had no issues at all with the change at PG. I have said Nelson is the best option, and I still believe if we make any noise in the A-10 tourney, it will be with Nelson at PG because we need scoring. We need the Nelson we saw against No Iowa, Syracuse, Drake, and Davidson, or at least close enough to that, but the past 5 games coming into last night, Nelson averaged 5.4 points a game, and was 3-14 from 3 during that stretch. So, when you lose 3 in a row, you try to find a spark, so, even though I might not have made the change, I get it. But, I don't think the change affected much. We still need scoring right now.

You guys know how I feel about the 3, and you guys do not like bringing up 2020, but the numbers don't lie:

2020: 24-7 record : 3 volume 3 point shooters shooting 43.8%, 36.7%, and 36.3% from 3.

2023: 11-12 record: 4 volume 3 point shooter shooting 40.6%, 31.2%, 29.4%, and 27.4% from 3.

Now, Jacob, Blake, and Nick aren't walking through the door, so what do we do? Just my opinion, but I would play Randolph and Roche more, and I think Tyler and Nelson need to keep shooting 3s, while Bigelow needs to be more selective. It might seem better to stop shooting 3s when you are missing them, but we aren't going to win much by just not shooting 3s, and we aren't going to win much without Tyler and Nelson (I say Nelson because I think our PG needs to be able to knock down 3s) making 3s and scoring.

24-7!!

all is well (as long as Dji doesn't get playing time)

 

[SFspidur]

It wasn't much of a foul, but definitely a jersey pull.

 

[wr70beh]

The lady ref had some questionable calls, but we benefited from some bad ones, and had some go against us. It didn't seem like it was really that one sided, just not good.

Yeah, incompetent refs don’t always mean that the game was rigged or someone was cheated. Usually it means the bad calls are spread out but are amplified due to the fact you’re a fan of one side.

 

[VT4700]

Cause outside of Roche, our shooters lack good form, and thus are not great shooters. Our strength this year is in the interior, so of course Mooney runs an offense designed to shoot lots of 3's. You really would have to try hard to design an offense so counter to the talent on your roster, but Mooney sure has hit that mark well.

You have to shoot and make 3s in college basketball these days. You have to. You can't just not shoot the 3, get outscored by 20 some to 30 points from 3 every game, and expect to win. And, you can't design an inside offense without some 3 point shooters because you can't let teams just pack in there defense all game. What would Quinn do if doubled every time? What would Tyler do if he drives the lane and has 2 or 3 guys there every time? And, is our strength really the interior? We are only shooting 51.3% from 2, our lowest mark since 2014.

 

[VT4700]

I will be curious too. It looked like Goose reached out and did a really weak pull on his jersey, like he was intentionally fouling. It was weird because right away Goose had a reaction like he could not believe it - OR he could not believe he did it. Not sure if he accidentally caught the jersey, or just had a mental lapse, or what.

Looked like a mental lapse to me. He chased and grabbed like he was trying to foul, then held his hand up to say yep, foul on me, then realized, uh oh, what did I just do? Likely after Tyler was asking him that same thing?

 

[SpiderDad75]

Yes, we were down by 3, about 50 seconds left. Guy crosses mid court and Goose fouls him. Again, I didn't get a look and they didn't replay it but Bob and Beck referenced a pulled jersey and that it was a good call. Let me know what you see.

Gotcha. Thank you. Was hard to see from the angle we sat at.

 

[97spiderfan]

It wasn't much of a foul, but definitely a jersey pull.

View embedded media

Thanks SF, I knew you would deliver. Yeah, Goose raised his hand after the foul. Kind of goes with the theory that he lost track of the game situation. Maybe he thought we were down by 4 or something. Huge mental mistake obviously by Goose. Refs didn't have to call it and they need to know game situation as well.