Sure as hell not paying ESPN to watch that crap. Dji played well and a should be starting.
Wichita isn’t Lawrence - Wichita State Game Thread - Wed 7:30 ESPN +
- Thread starter Section9.RowD
- Start date
YES and YES!! You anti guys are such a disgrace!
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
well he was the only one that even earned a single free throw on our side so can't complain too much.
After Shockers started 2nd half on a 7-0 run to build lead from 2 to 9, 95% of coaches would have immediately called a TO there. But CM has his own way.
Another Stripes reference, "lighten up, Francis"
In the Robins Center, we've twice attempted only two free throws...2/23/00 against ODU and 2/19/05 against Temple. Don't know if we've had lower than that all-time.
Most on here at this point are “anti” Mooney guy but dont confuse us as anti Spider guys. Just the opposite. If you have watched UR hoops for at least 10 years, and arent anti Mooney, you dont know much about basketball.
Somehow Dji was the only spider to even get free throws.
he attacked the basket
Aggressive play offensively in the paint begets trips to the foul line.
I didn't see that coming. After we climbed back in after the terrible start I thought we would do one of our classic fades where "we wasted too much energy coming back" and "just couldn't finish." I didn't think the second half would be worse than the first.
Didn't see any of this one. My friend had an extra ticket to UVa-A&M, and man. That's just a different level of basketball. Think we could get Tony Bennett?
Sorry to say I don't have a lot of faith it will materially improve. Shot is flat, and his right elbow is flared out to the side on his form. Elbow should be under the ball, like a waiter holding a tray.
Elbow is pointing way right. Waaay right. May be comfortable and something that works in practice - speculating - but game results bearing out that it’s a fundamental flaw that needs adjustment.
LOL. And, right after that, Tyne hit back to back 3s to give us a 6-0 run. But, sure, get on Mooney for no timeout there...had he called one, maybe Tyne's 3s would have been worth 4 points. You guys will always crack me up with this timeout talk.
player analysis:
Quinn has become pretty dominant offensively. I thought we sat him too much. Walz is playing well, but Quinn is a go-to force inside. Coach ... don't foul out your own player by sitting him with 3 fouls. he gets 5. as for defense ... don't over-help.
Bigelow is a roller coaster. there's a lot of talent there. hits some impressive shots. but when he's off it's a killer.
King was a little off, but he's great.
Tyne was very solid. gave us glimpses of what it can look like when he's shooting well. hope that's where it's heading for him.
I haven't noticed Noyes being a defensive problem until last night. I think that's why Harris got his minutes. he's got to be tougher defensively.
Harris isn't a shooter, but he's active and very good defensively.
Walz was solid. moves the ball very well offensively.
Roche ... passed up an open 3, and that's what he's supposed to be out there for. played ok but has to hit shots.
Bailey is one of our best now. getting starter's minutes as he should. quick to the ball for rebounds. nice handle and passing.
Quinn has become pretty dominant offensively. I thought we sat him too much. Walz is playing well, but Quinn is a go-to force inside. Coach ... don't foul out your own player by sitting him with 3 fouls. he gets 5. as for defense ... don't over-help.
Bigelow is a roller coaster. there's a lot of talent there. hits some impressive shots. but when he's off it's a killer.
King was a little off, but he's great.
Tyne was very solid. gave us glimpses of what it can look like when he's shooting well. hope that's where it's heading for him.
I haven't noticed Noyes being a defensive problem until last night. I think that's why Harris got his minutes. he's got to be tougher defensively.
Harris isn't a shooter, but he's active and very good defensively.
Walz was solid. moves the ball very well offensively.
Roche ... passed up an open 3, and that's what he's supposed to be out there for. played ok but has to hit shots.
Bailey is one of our best now. getting starter's minutes as he should. quick to the ball for rebounds. nice handle and passing.
My observations:
1. We were a way better team going inside than we were jacking up threes
2. Being able to score wasn’t going to offset multiple stretches where our defense was pretty sad
3. Not convinced that Bigelow should be taking threes when other options are available
4. I’m still a bit unclear on why Noyes is starting. It feels like it’s a vote for potential over production. And yes, I get the argument that others may in fact get more time, but that begs the question as to why we would want to start out with a lineup that potentially isn’t our strongest? Fwiw I really like his potential, mostly just a comment that it feels weird.
5. I was impressed that we crawled back into the game in the first half, that was mostly about getting stops not because we got crazy hot shooting. Defense keeps you in games.
1. We were a way better team going inside than we were jacking up threes
2. Being able to score wasn’t going to offset multiple stretches where our defense was pretty sad
3. Not convinced that Bigelow should be taking threes when other options are available
4. I’m still a bit unclear on why Noyes is starting. It feels like it’s a vote for potential over production. And yes, I get the argument that others may in fact get more time, but that begs the question as to why we would want to start out with a lineup that potentially isn’t our strongest? Fwiw I really like his potential, mostly just a comment that it feels weird.
5. I was impressed that we crawled back into the game in the first half, that was mostly about getting stops not because we got crazy hot shooting. Defense keeps you in games.
game analysis:
time will tell, but that starting 5 of WS looks really good. not a deep team so maybe we should have sped them up more, but we're not that deep either right now.
they killed us on the glass. they've got size playing 2 bigs together. plus their guards are bigger than ours. but we also over-help. any time Neal leaves his man to help, if the shot gets up we're in trouble.
I was spoiled with Gilyard, but we didn't force turnovers. only 1 steal last night. our defense is better but not good enough to survive a 1 steal night.
we can play better. and when we do we can beat good teams. we got good looks. we can play better defensively. they hit 61% on 2 pointers, and that's too high. but outside of guys having better nights, this is kind of who we are. we're not likely to outrebound bigger teams. we're probably not a great shooting team unless Roche and Noyes and Bigelow start hitting open shots. not much surprised me last night unfortunately. we got beat by what looks like a better team.
time will tell, but that starting 5 of WS looks really good. not a deep team so maybe we should have sped them up more, but we're not that deep either right now.
they killed us on the glass. they've got size playing 2 bigs together. plus their guards are bigger than ours. but we also over-help. any time Neal leaves his man to help, if the shot gets up we're in trouble.
I was spoiled with Gilyard, but we didn't force turnovers. only 1 steal last night. our defense is better but not good enough to survive a 1 steal night.
we can play better. and when we do we can beat good teams. we got good looks. we can play better defensively. they hit 61% on 2 pointers, and that's too high. but outside of guys having better nights, this is kind of who we are. we're not likely to outrebound bigger teams. we're probably not a great shooting team unless Roche and Noyes and Bigelow start hitting open shots. not much surprised me last night unfortunately. we got beat by what looks like a better team.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
how would you rate this game on your Mooney Moral Victory Index (MMVI) ?
I'm gonna trust the coaches on Noyes. So far, he has been given a good chance to make an impact and hasn't really made one. I know he only played 5 minutes last night, but he has had a few other quiet games when he played more minutes. If he still gets decent minutes, then the coaches see the potential and think his ceiling can help us. If the minutes become 10 or less, this likely means they feel the impact just won't be there over time. I hope he can help us, but I just haven't seen a lot yet.
I still have faith in Roche, maybe it's because we need 3 point shooting so badly, we have seen him be a factor over time, and feel he could and should be one of our best shooters. I agree with Sman, he can't turn down a good look.
It would be so key to get just one of them going. They both can hit the 3 and we definitely need that, but we also just need positive impact from them, especially with Hunt out.
I still have faith in Roche, maybe it's because we need 3 point shooting so badly, we have seen him be a factor over time, and feel he could and should be one of our best shooters. I agree with Sman, he can't turn down a good look.
It would be so key to get just one of them going. They both can hit the 3 and we definitely need that, but we also just need positive impact from them, especially with Hunt out.
This is another one of Mooney's maddening coaching tendencies. Quinn was our best player last night and Mooney played him 23 minutes because he was afraid of him fouling out. You point out exactly the problem is that Mooney is essentially fouling his own players out by sitting them to avoid them fouling out.
I hope Noyes is not buried on the bench but he was handed a starters role and he hasn't made a starters level impact out there. If he loses his starting position or starters minutes, that is on him and his play. Said before, Dji is justifying every game starter's minutes and Noyes is not giving justification for keeping himself at starters minutes.
This change is inevitable if this trend continues, no matter who actually "starts" the game for us.
I will agree that I don't like just sitting guys till the end of the half with 2 fouls no matter what happens. Also, I don't like sitting them in the 2nd half with 3.
But, looking at last night, Quinn got his 2nd with just over 7 minutes left in the 1st half with us trailing 24-16. We ended the half on a 15-7 run with Quinn on the bench so I have no issue not bringing him back then. He got his 3rd with just under 14 minutes left came back in with just under 10 left. We got outscored by 2 points this stretch and Quinn was probably about ready to be subbed out there anyway. So, Quinn sitting with fouls was not really a factor last night.
But I do think it matters how the game is going. There have been games where we are behind and get behind a little more with a key guy on the bench with 2 fouls until halftime. That I don't like and will disagree with Mooney on that. Tony Bennett and plenty of other coaches coach this way and I disagree with them as well when they do it. Especially when it's like the final 10+ minutes of the 1st half. Not at all a fan of sitting a guy that long.
I don't think Quinn was the best player as far as game impact / impact upon winning. In fact, I thought we got absolutely abused by the pick and roll when he was in there, as WSU targeted him constantly. It was no coincidence that the best the Spiders played was the last 8+ minutes of the first half when he was on the bench and the more athletic lineups were in there. Spiders are at their best when King cooks and opens things up.
I like Quinn and think he's much improved as a post scoring presence but defensively, UR needs to figure out what to do when the p&r is being run with athletic finishers. How many dunks did WSU have? 5? 7?
The coach who did the scout also needs to be better.
offensively Quinn was dealing.
but the pick and roll or whatever they were doing was a problem. a lot of it seems to be big-to-big passing. so I'm guessing Bigelow was getting screened?
it's a good offensive scheme. what we did wasn't working. maybe switch that screen? maybe Quinn can hedge for a second not let his man roll?
but the pick and roll or whatever they were doing was a problem. a lot of it seems to be big-to-big passing. so I'm guessing Bigelow was getting screened?
it's a good offensive scheme. what we did wasn't working. maybe switch that screen? maybe Quinn can hedge for a second not let his man roll?
He hit 2 3’s but Wichita didnt stop scoring and Spiders were down 9 again within a minute, and WSU kept scoring without Mooney trying to stop their momentum or coach his team on how to stop them from scoring at ease. So, even though Tyne hit 2 3’s the Spiders were still in the same hole and one getting deeper while Cm did nothing, not calling a TO after their 7-0 run was ill-advised and like I said out of the ordinary for nearly all coaches I have seen in similar situations to start a half.
But it works out great for Mooney I guess.
we all know that Moon saves the unused timeouts and his players' extra fouls and uses them in his hyperbaric chamber.
LOL...okay....how dare he not call timeout and prevent us from going on a 6-0 run. This is a hilarious post. No, we were not down 9 within a minute. It was 40-37 after Tyne hit the 3s, it went from 3 down to 5 down a few times and was 46-43 at the 15 minute mark when they hit a 3 to go up 6 right before the TV timeout.
ah, the magic run-stopping timeouts.
how many magic timeouts did the Wichita St coach call when their 13 point first half lead was cut to 2? (none)
we lost. what Mooney did or didn't do didn't work. but no, not every coach uses timeouts to explain to their team what to do. you're allowed to talk from the sidelines. I don't think WS called a timeout all game. certainly didn't need to in the 2nd half, but still ...
Yep. And there were 5 2nd half timeouts. What in the world would a 6th or 7th timeout have done to slow them down?
Quinn is playing well. But do you think teams are looking at Quinn and saying to themselves - he will make 2's and have a good night against us, but in today's game - trading 2's for 3's is acceptable. And they just don't think Quinn will score enough 25+ or near 30 points that might be necessary for his night to beat you. Plus teams know they can wear him down cause Quinn can't play long minutes. Last night he played well - 18 points, 3 rebounds, and 3 assists, no turnovers. But did this in 23 minutes. If he could be extended to 32 minutes - maybe he gets those 30 points, maybe he can carry the team on his back for a few games - but I think that is asking a lot for him to do and not sure he could do it. But I wonder if teams are looking at Quinn - they are willing to let him play 1 v 1 down low, shoot a good percentage, but know it won't be enough to beat them? Not too much of the case last night as we hit 7 threes and so did Wichita State hit 3 as well. Big thing was FT's - but again that is always a weakness of our teams - we never really get to the line much based on our style of play.
Our style of play wins 55% of our games. What more do you want?
it's all about percentages, not aggregate numbers.
trading 2's for 3's doesn't work if you're letting Quinn shoot 75% from 2 ... unless you're going to shoot over 50% from 3.
Good post. I think a lot of teams decide to not double a big inside. If they don't, Quinn needs to get his 20+ points and then it's up to the rest of the team to get theirs. Last year, I saw too many games where Quinn was not doubled, but did not score much. That makes it that much tougher to score enough to win. Quinn looks like he has improved a lot offensively and I feel like we will get solid production from him most nights, so I am more focused on what others can and will do.
