St. Mary's vs VCU

[GKiller]

So, did every power conference team get their hire wrong when they hired someone else instead of Odom? You and others are making him out to be the best coach in college basketball. Can he recruit? 3 of his main guys at Utah St this year were from the previous staff. 2 more were transfers, one from UMBC. Good for him to land some transfers, but I think there is a lot of unknown with Odom. Could he do well? Sure, but I don't see why some on here are guaranteeing that.

GA Tech sure did imo. He fits in the mid-Atlantic best there weren't a lot of power conf openings. & u know there is a hierarchy with these jobs, he needed another one to get the best p6 ones anyway, so I don't really follow that train of thought anyway. Gtwon should have looked too but I can't fault them for Cooley. Maybe they would have w/o Cooley. I said in another post no guarantees but history dictates VCU taking our lunch $ is as close as u can get. I admit to being biased bc I had Odom top of my list for long time so I'm confident they improved & they did it by saving a lot of $ they can allocate elsewhere. They may have a slight transition depending on what happens in portal after a coaching change. That is only negative, but also not a guarantee.

 

[8legs1dream]

4700 pom pom's fighting so hard against this being a good hire just cements it for me that it is indeed a great hire and our "rivalry" is going to get even more pathetic in the years to come.

 

[GKiller]

The gap just got a lot bigger? So, you are saying he will do better than Rhoades' 8-4 record against us? You think he will get better players there than Rhoades did? You think he will do better than 2 1sts and 2 2nds in his first 6 years there? Let me help you with these: nope, no chance, and nope.

Look if I could foresee the future I would spend less time on this board. But yes, yes, yes. The 8-4 is easy. Historically Mooney does worse vs. VCU. Thrilled to be wrong but not hard to see it trending even worse. We're in a hole. U had very high expectations of this program coming off NCAA. we severely underperformed this season. Hopefully we crush the portal.

 

[VT4700]

Do you feel confident that more times than not our coach will have us in the top 1 or 2 in the A10? If so, you need your head examined. If not, you should be calling for new leadership in the UR program.

I'm not sure what this has to do with my praise of Rhoades and saying Odom is not an upgrade. As for Mooney and other coaches, no I wouldn't feel confident with 1st or 2nd more times than not because out of all the A-10 coaches, Rhoades is the only one to do it. Rhoades did it 4 times in 6 years. You know how many times Travis Ford has finished 1st or 2nd in the A-10 in his 7 years at SLU? Once. Would I be calling for new leadership if I were an SLU fan? Nope. Everyone's favorite Schmidt: 16 years at Bona with 3 1st or 2nd place finishes. Would I fire him? Nope. Those of you that say Odom is an upgrade I guess are expecting 5 or 6 1st or 2nd place A-10 finishes his first 6 years. Good luck with that.

 

[Mo 2.0]

Odom will be gone to greener pastures in 24-36 months after having beaten us H2H in nearly (if not) all meetings between UR/VCU. There will never be a chance to prove how many 1st's or 2nd's over 6 years.

The only reason MR was there 6 years was because of COVID disruptions in the middle of it.

They'll then hire another successful coach and the merry-go-round will restart again. This isn't rocket science.

 

[Spiders4ever]

All true, and he has proved he is a good coach..just wondering why some think he is an upgrade over Rhoades. Rhoades had 2 1sts, 2 2nds, a 5th and an 8th place finish in 6 years at VCU. As bad as the A-10 has struggled, it is way way better than the American East, where Odom and UMBC had a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th in 5 years. The win over UVA was tremendous and Utah St had a good year this year, but my question would be how does that make him an upgrade over Rhoades?

Rhoades has never won a game in the NCAA tournament.

 

[VT4700]

Rhoades has never won a game in the NCAA tournament.

And Mooney won one last year. What's your point? Mooney is a better coach?

 

[Spider B]

Odom will be gone to greener pastures in 24-36 months after having beaten us H2H in nearly (if not) all meetings between UR/VCU. There will never be a chance to prove how many 1st's or 2nd's over 6 years.

The only reason MR was there 6 years was because of COVID disruptions in the middle of it.

They'll then hire another successful coach and the merry-go-round will restart again. This isn't rocket science.

And this is the model we would adapt if we valued winning.

 

[plydogg]

Because they know what they had with Rhoades

This is exactly the point. They know what that had with Rhoades, a coach who has been there 6 years and hadn’t won a single tournament game. For Richmond that’s par for the course, but for VCU I would bet that is not acceptable to the fanbase

 

[plydogg]

And Mooney won one last year. What's your point? Mooney is a better coach?

I think you’re getting confused. Mooney being a better/good coach is typically your point

 

[97spiderfan]

And Mooney won one last year. What's your point? Mooney is a better coach?

If Mooney was indeed seen by anyone as a better coach, any number of BCS programs would be kicking his tires regularly. But literally not one has done that since 2011. We have all the proof you can gather about Mooney not being a great coach, but the single greatest indicator is that literally no other school is even interested in the slightest in his services.

 

[wr70beh]

And Mooney won one last year. What's your point? Mooney is a better coach?

Let's put it this way. If both Mooney and Odom were free agents, not attached to any team (including UR) at this time. Based on their body of work and what they've done lately, as well as the trajectory of each coach, who would you take to coach this program to start from scratch? I'd take Odom every day of the week.

 

[VT4700]

Let's put it this way. If both Mooney and Odom were free agents, not attached to any team (including UR) at this time. Based on their body of work and what they've done lately, as well as the trajectory of each coach, who would you take to coach this program to start from scratch? I'd take Odom every day of the week.

Well, the last post trying to be anti Rhoades mentioned his lack of NCAA wins so if you use that to compare what they have done lately, wouldn't Mooney have the edge over Odom? But, my point all along has been I don't think Odom is an upgrade over Rhoades. Not even close IMO. Has nothing to do with Mooney. I can't help it if everyone on here wants to turn every thread and every post into an anti Richmond or anti Mooney discussion.

 

[8legs1dream]

Let's put it this way. If both Mooney and Odom were free agents, not attached to any team (including UR) at this time. Based on their body of work and what they've done lately, as well as the trajectory of each coach, who would you take to coach this program to start from scratch? I'd take Odom every day of the week.

you'll never get a straight answer out of him about this.

 

[plydogg]

Now the next question about Rhoades. Will he take any players with him to Penn State?

Maybe Ace Baldwin and the Lynyrd Skynyrd looking dude?

 

[VT4700]

Now the next question about Rhodes. Will he take any players with him to Penn State?

Maybe Ace Baldwin and the Lynyrd Skynyrd looking dude?

Rhoades has always had good players. We don't even know if Odom can recruit.

 

[SFspidur]

Shriver is out of eligibility...he was a one-year guy.

 

[plydogg]

Rhoades has always had good players. We don't even know if Odom can recruit.

I for one will say I hope he can’t 😊

 

[spiderman]

we know Rhoades did a pretty good job. some of you think Odom is a step up. he may or may not be.
there's uncertainty. I'm fine with that uncertainty. I'm not going to lose any sleep over VCU signing Odom.

VCU clearly pays well. they were going to hire a strong candidate.

 

[GKiller]

Well, the last post trying to be anti Rhoades mentioned his lack of NCAA wins so if you use that to compare what they have done lately, wouldn't Mooney have the edge over Odom? But, my point all along has been I don't think Odom is an upgrade over Rhoades. Not even close IMO. Has nothing to do with Mooney. I can't help it if everyone on here wants to turn every thread and every post into an anti Richmond or anti Mooney discussion.

I don't think it was anti-Rhoades. u asked why someone thinks Odom is an upgrade. That was his response. NCAA win by Odom was just another advantage. U r right not related to Mooney we know what we have in 18 years there. U brought Moon into that specific response. U don't think its even close? U were comparing VCU conf finishes to UMBC's. That still doesn't make much sense to me. His relative success was much higher at UMBC which was in the dumpster when he took over. If Fordham in A10 or BC in ACC had those same finishes it would be more of an accomplishment than VCU or Duke doing it for instance.

It is fine if you like Rhoades more. That's a minority opinion but u can have it & I respect the contrarian, just not sure why dismissive of valid reasons people have brought up on why Odom better. He's also younger and most importantly lot cheaper too!

 

[GKiller]

7 years, almost $25 million for Rhoades...so yeah, not just the $3.5m salary, but that length. Sheesh.

Penn State hires Mike Rhoades: VCU coach took Rams to three out of last four NCAA Tournaments

Rhoades replaces Micah Shrewsberry, who recently left to take the open position at Notre Dame

www.cbssports.com

Big contract for sure, but looks like Penn State did put in a fairly favorable buyout. I remember when a few posters on here said coaches don't sign contracts with buyouts & I had to debate they do & were only becoming more prevalent. Almost 10 mil of compensation they can get out of owing Rhoades after just year 3. That's a lot. Now it would have to go very bad to come to that which is unlikely but it's a hard job. Just interesting & refreshing to see.

It would be great to know Richmond's buyout. But we have zero transparency. President Hallock's main academic writings were all about executive compensation, a lot of them for varied markets. That's how he made his hay. Find it ironic but that's me.

 

[spider23]

Mooney has zero interest from anyone, and zero motivation. To win at Richmond.

Let's Gooooooooo!!!!!!!!! Pumped up for the future of Richmond Spiders hoops!!!

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

how many 1st / 2nd place finishes has Richmond had in the A10?

Oh, wait, I know this one.

**defending myself in advance: this point of comparison is because we are discussing a team in UR's own league and city. One that has set a high benchmark standard for winning, and we're quibbling about which very good coach of theirs is better. So it seems a fair point of comparison. /end ***

 

[plydogg]

how many 1st / 2nd place finishes has Richmond had in the A10?

Oh, wait, I know this one.

**defending myself in advance: this point of comparison is because we are discussing a team in UR's own league and city. One that has set a high benchmark standard for winning, and we're quibbling about which very good coach of theirs is better. So it seems a fair point of comparison. /end ***

24-7 though

 

[urmite]

Well, the last post trying to be anti Rhoades mentioned his lack of NCAA wins so if you use that to compare what they have done lately, wouldn't Mooney have the edge over Odom? But, my point all along has been I don't think Odom is an upgrade over Rhoades. Not even close IMO. Has nothing to do with Mooney. I can't help it if everyone on here wants to turn every thread and every post into an anti Richmond or anti Mooney discussion.

I disagree.

I think Dave Odom is an upgrade over Rhoades and has a better track record.

 

[KE Spider]

Rhoades had 2 1sts, 2 2nds, a 5th and an 8th place finish in 6 years at VCU.

VT, what prevents Mooney from doing this?

 

[64Spider]

If Mooney was indeed seen by anyone as a better coach, any number of BCS programs would be kicking his tires regularly. But literally not one has done that since 2011. We have all the proof you can gather about Mooney not being a great coach, but the single greatest indicator is that literally no other school is even interested in the slightest in his services.

Maybe the price is too high

 

[VT4700]

VT, what prevents Mooney from doing this?

What prevents every other A-10 coach from doing this? I would say it is because it's pretty doggone hard to have 4 1st or 2nd place finishes in a 6 year stretch in a competitive conference. Ford is 1 for 7 doing this. Mooney is not the one who stands out, Rhoades is.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

0-18 stands out

 

[GKiller]

0-18 stands out

1-17. Finished 2nd in 19-20’

 

[GKiller]

Official. Vcu machine never break.

“Next step toward winning a national championship”

Meanwhile we get “temper your expectations” and stale popcorn in the Robins Center. A kick in the nuts.

RYAN ODOM NAMED VCU MEN’S BASKETBALL COACH - Virginia Commonwealth University

North Carolina native has led Utah State, UMBC to NCAA Tournament berths

vcuathletics.com

 

[SpiderTrap]

7 years, almost $25 million for Rhoades...so yeah, not just the $3.5m salary, but that length. Sheesh.

Penn State hires Mike Rhoades: VCU coach took Rams to three out of last four NCAA Tournaments

Rhoades replaces Micah Shrewsberry, who recently left to take the open position at Notre Dame

www.cbssports.com

Yeah - near impossible to turn that deal down. And just think - if he is able to take Penn State to the tourney and win a game or two in the next few years, he will get even more money. And Penn State just showed this past year - it is possible.

 

[gcarter52]

If things turnout right for him like you say, he will be another Coach Cal of Kentucky.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

1-17. Finished 2nd in 19-20’

sorry, I was referencing first place finishes. Which have been accomplished by I believe 10 different A10 programs the last 18 years.

 

[KE Spider]

Mooney is not the one who stands out, Rhoades is.

Bingo! You got it.

VCU expects excellence in their basketball program regardless of the coach. We like nice uniforms, facilities, cordiality, but not much more apparently.

 

[MrTbone]

pretty much everybody knew and expected an extension after the run last year. the length and amount could be argued, but most thought an extension was warranted.

I would argue there’s a major difference between “warranted” and “expected”.

I expected an extension but by no means do I think it was warranted.

 

[PASpider]

If Mooney was indeed seen by anyone as a better coach, any number of BCS programs would be kicking his tires regularly. But literally not one has done that since 2011. We have all the proof you can gather about Mooney not being a great coach, but the single greatest indicator is that literally no other school is even interested in the slightest in his services.

What a great point. Mid-majors are not what coaches envision their final destination to be when they start out coaching. If they do, it’s because they’re alumni. Otherwise, I don’t want a coach that’s not constantly striving to show the country that he’s the best coach out there and at least entertaining offers from bigger programs. It shows that they too think what it takes to be a great coach. Coaches have left VCU many times over the years not to make lateral or downward movements, but to jump to bigger conferences and higher salaries. The fact that nobody is knocking on a mid-major coach’s door for a decade speaks volumes.

 

[MrTbone]

What prevents every other A-10 coach from doing this? I would say it is because it's pretty doggone hard to have 4 1st or 2nd place finishes in a 6 year stretch in a competitive conference. Ford is 1 for 7 doing this. Mooney is not the one who stands out, Rhoades is.

Mckillop pulled 2 1sts, a 2nd, and 2 3rds in I think 8 seasons. Good coaches succeed, they don’t just compete.

I’m not taking anything away from rhoades, he’s gotten the job done, but by comparison, CM has what appear to be only 2 2nds and 2 3rds in 18 years. He does kind of stand out at least a bit.

 

[urmite]

Odom will be gone to greener pastures in 24-36 months after having beaten us H2H in nearly (if not) all meetings between UR/VCU. There will never be a chance to prove how many 1st's or 2nd's over 6 years.

The only reason MR was there 6 years was because of COVID disruptions in the middle of it.

They'll then hire another successful coach and the merry-go-round will restart again. This isn't rocket science.

Only 1 of 12 more than 6 years…

Totals	12 Coaches	49	1025–558 (.646)	407–219 (.650)
1989–1998	Sonny Smith	9	136–127 (.517)	Sun Belt/Metro/CAA: 59–65 (.476)
2009–2015	Shaka Smart	6	163–56 (.744)	CAA/A-10: 74–30 (.712)
1979–1985	J. D. Barnett	6	132–48 (.733)	Sun Belt: 59–19 (.756)
1970–1976	Chuck Noe	6	95–42 (.693)
2017–2023	Mike Rhoades	5	94–50 (0.653)	A-10: 50–28 (.641)
2002–2006	Jeff Capel	4	79–41 (.658)	CAA: 50–22 (.694)
1998–2002	Mack McCarthy	4	66–55 (.545)	CAA: 35–31 (.530)
1985–1989	Mike Pollio	4	65–57 (.533)	Sun Belt: 32–24 (.571)
2006–2009	Anthony Grant	3	76–25 (.752)	CAA: 45–9 (.833)
1976–1979	Dana Kirk	3	57–23 (.712)
2015–2017	Will Wade	2	51–20 (.718)	A-10: 28–8 (.778)
1968–1970	Benny Dees	2	25–21 (.543)
2023-present	Ryan Odom	0

 

[Not-A-Homer]

What style of play do you see from an Odom coached team? I do not recall ever watching his team play, or watching him coach a game.