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Charlotte Game (and travel) thread - Wed 11/13 7pm ESPN+

Advice from a friend who has watched his school's team fail annually-Get the hope over with early. Now we can relax.
I watched the first half on tv then went out. It was a tremendous display of offensive futility by both teams. At least Charlotte could hit foul shots- the difference in the first half. What hurts the most, beyond no offense, is watching our team take a three and start running the other way. There were tons of opportunities to grab an offensive rebound. So depressing to think nothing has changed over all of these years with the Spiders' offensive rebounding strategy-actually- no strategy-just "get back!"
 
bright side, I actually thought our defense was fine. or at least it was the least of our problems last night.

offensive "flow" was awful. maybe that does take time? guys we're clogging things up for each other which didn't happen last year.

shooting was just abysmal despite open looks. 3-21 from 3, 5-13 from the line? and we took a bunch of those pull up midrange shots that the analytics hate ... and missed them like the analytics project.

Dusan was impressive early. don't understand him yelling at Walz for passing the ball back to him though ... which went through his hands. Beagle made some nice moves. gotta see the cutters though. that's the whole purpose of him getting the ball on the elbow. be patient there.
Hunt did Hunt things ... except from the foul line.
AP blocked a shot and stayed under control.
that about exhausts any positives. to state the obvious, we're not very good right now.
 
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Never thought offense would be our problem this year - but here we are scoring 48 against a bad Charlotte team. You can expect to have cold shooting nights at some point, but that is when your defense kicks in - and this team looks like it will struggle on defense. Or - when your shooting is struggling, try something different - like go down low or drive to the hoop and try to draw fouls and get to the free throw line. That is what Charlotte did - they were not shooting any better than us - but they drove the ball, caused some fouls to be called - and they shoot 30 free throws to our 13.

Also - I never in my life have complained about offensive rebounding with this team because it is just not part of the Mooney system. BUT - in this game, we missed 30 shots, and only got 2 offensive rebounds. That is unbelievable.

Some things to note from a personnel standpoint. Where are Soullis and GW3. Especially in a game like this, when your just looking for a spark - do you try something different and throw one of them out there, see what you get. Especially at the end of the first half where we went 8 minutes and scored 3 points.
 
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... but they drove the ball, caused some fouls to be called - and they shoot 30 free throws to our 13.
not that it's the reason we lost, but a bunch of those foul calls were ridiculous. this is D1 college basketball. it's not a foul every time there's contact.
 
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Also, in the first half (the only one I watched), I saw several times Beagle on the pick and roll. Beagle was wide open rolling to the basket and they never threw the ball to him! Maybe the second half was different.
 
Also, in the first half (the only one I watched), I saw several times Beagle on the pick and roll. Beagle was wide open rolling to the basket and they never threw the ball to him! Maybe the second half was different.
I saw quite a bit of that as well - guy was open and we couldn't make the pass. Then guy was not really open and we forced the pass and TO. Hopefully some of that due to just lack of guys playing together and will improve with time.

No where to go but up - I hope.
 
It is always amazing how they go into hiding whenever their savior does his 56% percent act. Yet, those of us are here through thick and thin are not "real" fans.

Bucknell is gonna be a lot tougher than anyone thought when the season started and that is not some reflection on Bucknell either; just us.
My goodness, taking a jab at people on here who support our coach, our players, and our program? How dare us, right? Geez, where are we? Well, I'm right here. Let me ask where are some of you guys when we have success? The board has way less messages when we win. Way less.

As for the game, I will say what I said after the Marist game. I am way more concerned about our offense than defense. We are gonna have a hard time scoring this year. We were 3-21 from 3 and took way too many mid range 2s last night. Way way too many. Very few guys can create their own shot. Without better 3 point shooting, the defense will continue to make things hard for our bigs and hard for us to get to the basket and draw fouls. I won't get into each player now, but a lot of guys need to play a lot better for us to have success.
 
I'm expecting a new coachspeak phrase to enter all the interviews: cohesion. We have none.

sman, agree on the cutters clogging lanes, multiple times 2 guys would cut at same time and both end up with their defenders in the middle of the lane. I also agree that a few fouls were very weak calls.

I can see why deep bench didn't get in, the game got out of reach in slow increments. It was a 10 point game at 4:30, so of course your starters/guys playing best are still in there. But going forward, no one should be on any zero minutes expectation like in previous years. Go 13 deep if guys in the regular rotation don't perform. What's going to happen - lose to Charlotte by 20?

I really feel badly for Roche now that Moon seems intent on burying him, especially in a game where Tanner didn't score. A ROY honor and his up transfer just didn't ever go as expected.

Did the announcers say that UR hasn't won a road OOC game since 2021? Is that correct?
 
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Never thought offense would be our problem this year - but here we are scoring 48 against a bad Charlotte team. You can expect to have cold shooting nights at some point, but that is when your defense kicks in - and this team looks like it will struggle on defense. Or - when your shooting is struggling, try something different - like go down low or drive to the hoop and try to draw fouls and get to the free throw line. That is what Charlotte did - they were not shooting any better than us - but they drove the ball, caused some fouls to be called - and they shoot 30 free throws to our 13.

Also - I never in my life have complained about offensive rebounding with this team because it is just not part of the Mooney system. BUT - in this game, we missed 30 shots, and only got 2 offensive rebounds. That is unbelievable.

Some things to note from a personnel standpoint. Where are Soullis and GW3. Especially in a game like this, when your just looking for a spark - do you try something different and throw one of them out there, see what you get. Especially at the end of the first half where we went 8 minutes and scored 3 points.
This is what I would like to know. Why no Soulis of GW3 last night? I know we are not at practice so we don't see everything going on, but it's not like we have a solid rotation that has shown how great they are and just had a few bad games here. We have 4 new starters and 3 of our 4 main bench guys are in their 1st year here. When we have a game like last night, where we are struggling so bad offensively, why not give the other guys some minutes. Even the true freshman. If they look like they shouldn't be playing and that's why they aren't, fine, sit them back down, but maybe they can give you a spark somewhere.
 
My goodness, taking a jab at people on here who support our coach, our players, and our program? How dare us, right? Geez, where are we? Well, I'm right here. Let me ask where are some of you guys when we have success? The board has way less messages when we win. Way less.

As for the game, I will say what I said after the Marist game. I am way more concerned about our offense than defense. We are gonna have a hard time scoring this year. We were 3-21 from 3 and took way too many mid range 2s last night. Way way too many. Very few guys can create their own shot. Without better 3 point shooting, the defense will continue to make things hard for our bigs and hard for us to get to the basket and draw fouls. I won't get into each player now, but a lot of guys need to play a lot better for us to have success.

You are shameless. Getting high off your own Mooniocrity supply for so long you don't even know what you are arguing anymore, emboldened by the losses 😏
 
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My goodness, taking a jab at people on here who support our coach, our players, and our program? How dare us, right? Geez, where are we? Well, I'm right here. Let me ask where are some of you guys when we have success? The board has way less messages when we win. Way less.

As for the game, I will say what I said after the Marist game. I am way more concerned about our offense than defense. We are gonna have a hard time scoring this year. We were 3-21 from 3 and took way too many mid range 2s last night. Way way too many. Very few guys can create their own shot. Without better 3 point shooting, the defense will continue to make things hard for our bigs and hard for us to get to the basket and draw fouls. I won't get into each player now, but a lot of guys need to play a lot better for us to have success.
I'll get into it.

Guards - Shooting has been awful, defense bad. I don't understand the obsession with White here on the board, he's quick but that's all I've seen so far. Tyne's 3 still looks good and doesn't go in. He's still small. Hunt is not a #1 scorer (or really a PG to me) and his shooting reflects this. GWIII and Graham not in regular rotation. Contrary to some, I do believe that the small guards are an issue if you ONLY have small guards. Getting bullied on drives, other teams guards are lighting it up with clear eye lines on their shots. This is why we are so bad IMO. Moonball demands good guard play and we do not have it. Think of all the end of shot clock possessions where the ball gets reset bc Moonball passing game leads to nothing. The lead guard has to be a creator in those times. I like DLo but he's not at the level of KA, Gilyard or King, not nearly. He's a complementary scorer.

Centers - jumping spots here bc it's an important spot in Moonball. Walz needs an offensive move bc without one he is indecisive in the post. He'd rather shoot a 16 foot jumper IMO. He said he's being counted on to score, but he's not doing it or looking to do it. He's not shown willingness to guard the perimeter effectively. Beagle - he can score around the rim. He also gives up as much/more on defense as he scores and isn't the passer Moon requires from the high post. Turnovers killing him.

Dusan - gets his own line here bc he has been what I thought he'd be. Guy who can score points, maybe inconsistent on defense.

Wings - Roche, nothing new here. Makes shots or doesn't play, depending on how Moon feels. Tanner - looks comfortable shooting 17 foot jumpers, 3s less so, haven't seen ability to get to the rim off the dribble. Liability on defense. AP - better on defense than I'd expect, likely bc he's 6'8" and has been able to tip passes and block shots. Still lateral quickness issues. Nice looking shot, needs better looks and better results.

Graham, Soulis, GWIII - not in rotation

Freshmen - redshirting. Contrary to board, I am behind this now, why waste them if this season is tanking already.
 
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I believe our passing has been late or to wrong spot for receiver to have reasonable opportunity.
 
I believe our passing has been late or to wrong spot for receiver to have reasonable opportunity.
We came out the 1st possession last night and everything looked good and fast. Ball movement, spacing, and screeing was all good. Unfortunately, I think that was our best looking possession of the night.
 
Well, the bottom line is that we weren't making the NCAAs as an at-large anyway, so I guess it's good to know we don't have to sweat out every game the rest of the way. We have a few months for these guys to figure out how to play together in this system and for the staff to figure out how to maximize their individual abilities in such a way that we stop getting embarrassed by bad teams. And if we get hot, maybe we can win 4 games in 4 days again and go dancing. If not, at least it will be baseball season by then.
 
"Well, the bottom line is that we weren't making the NCAAs as an at-large anyway, so I guess it's good to know we don't have to sweat out every game the rest of the way. We have a few months for these guys to figure out how to play together in this system and for the staff to figure out how to maximize their individual abilities in such a way that we stop getting embarrassed by bad teams. And if we get hot, maybe we can win 4 games in 4 days again and go dancing. If not, at least it will be baseball season by then."


And we have the Spider ladies who are a legit national story!
 
interesting that you say that 4700 about the early possession. Same was true early in 2nd half.

1st half - UR up 14-11 at the 13:00 mark. 5 points the rest of the half.
2nd half - UR cuts 10 point halftime deficit to 2 points (38-36) at 11:24 mark. 12 points rest of the game.
Scrimmage (I forget which one) - starters jump out to a lead, rest of game a virtual tie.

The interesting thing here is that in the first 2 games, 3 of the 4 starts to a half were pretty terrible. Hopefully we can find a consistent 5 and ride them to some wins.
 
not that it's the reason we lost, but a bunch of those foul calls were ridiculous. this is D1 college basketball. it's not a foul every time there's contact.
I agree - some questionable and very light foul calls, but give credit to Charlotte. They saw that and they kept pushing the envelope and putting the refs in a spot to either make a call or not, and last night - more times they gave charlotte the call.

Just didn't feel like we drove enough or pounded inside given our shooting woes.
 
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interesting that you say that 4700 about the early possession. Same was true early in 2nd half.

1st half - UR up 14-11 at the 13:00 mark. 5 points the rest of the half.
2nd half - UR cuts 10 point halftime deficit to 2 points (38-36) at 11:24 mark. 12 points rest of the game.
Scrimmage (I forget which one) - starters jump out to a lead, rest of game a virtual tie.

The interesting thing here is that in the first 2 games, 3 of the 4 starts to a half were pretty terrible. Hopefully we can find a consistent 5 and ride them to some wins.
Unreal. 5 points in final 13 minutes of 1st half, and then 12 points in the final 12 minutes of the game. My goodness, that is ugly. Breaking it down, the final 13 minutes of the 1st half, we went:
Missed jumper
Missed 3
Turnover
Missed jumper
Missed 3
Missed 3
Made jumper
Missed 3
Missed Layup
Missed 3
Missed FT/Missed FT
Missed jumper
Missed 3
Made Layup
Missed FT/Made FT
Turnover
Missed 3
Missed jumper
Missed 3
Missed 3
Missed jumper.

21 possessions..5 points.

2 turnovers.
1-6 on 2 point mid range shots.
1-4 on FT.
1-2 on Layups.
0-9 from 3.

Just brutal. 6 mid range shots in 13 minutes is bad basketball. I know going 0-9 from 3 and only getting 2 layup tries is no better, but no one runs an offense to shoot 6 mid range jumpers in 13 minutes. That shows you how bad things are when that happens.
 
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Unreal. 5 points in final 13 minutes of 1st half, and then 12 points in the final 12 minutes of the game. My goodness, that is ugly. Breaking it down, the final 13 minutes of the 1st half, we went:
Missed jumper
Missed 3
Turnover
Missed jumper
Missed 3
Missed 3
Made jumper
Missed 3
Missed Layup
Missed 3
Missed FT/Missed FT
Missed jumper
Missed 3
Made Layup
Missed FT/Made FT
Turnover
Missed 3
Missed jumper
Missed 3
Missed 3
Missed jumper.

21 possessions..5 points.

2 turnovers.
1-6 on 2 point mid range shots.
1-4 on FT.
1-2 on Layups.
0-9 from 3.

Just brutal. 6 mid range shots in 13 minutes is bad basketball. I know going 0-9 from 3 and only getting 2 layup tries is no better, but no one runs an offense to shoot 6 mid range jumpers in 13 minutes. That shows you how bad things are when that happens.

but despite all this, Fire Bennett and Extend Mooney right?
 
I think, as we saw just last season and in most seasons, Mooney's offensive system works just fine.
just not with this group yet. unfortunately it might take some time.
 
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The offense works just fine*

*as long as there is a very good/great PG on the team to save possessions/games at the end
**as long as the opposing team is not really pressuring guards up high and disrupting the initial flow
***as long as the other team isn't too physical
****as long as there are at least 3 very good shooters and a big white guy center who can get them the ball
*****as long as the other team isn't too tall or athletic to smother our shorter guys (guards) and slower guys (centers)
 
we can’t take 2-3 years to teach guys “the system”, not in this day and age of transfers. Is it really that complicated? Asking the basketball pros out there…
The players take academic courses at UR. So learning Moonie’s System is more difficult than classes at our school? Sorry, I’m not buying that. It’s easy to say how hard it is to learn Moon Sys, but that doesn’t mean it does. These guys have been playing basketball most of their lives and should have the ability to learn and execute in time for season tipoff.
 
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If this team continues to struggle offensively, I may advocate Mooney return to the original Princeton offense he implemented in his first few years which almost always drew the shot clock down below 10 seconds before anyone even looked to take a shot. Most of this was done out of necessity because Mooney didn't have the right players for his system, so he tried to keep the score close with low possessions. We may need to return to that and try to win some games 44-42.
 
Mooney's really good teams are usually defined by having elite guard play. We do not have an elite guard this year. Delonnie is a really nice player but he is not on Jordan King, Gilly, K-Zero, Ced, KA level. Each of those guards scared other teams defenses in ways that Delonnie doesn't.

And that is not a knock on Hunt. He is our best player, he is really good player, it's just Mooney needs an ELITE guard for his teams to be competent. And then couple that by asking the question, who is our second best player after Delonnie and I bet if I asked this board, I would get 3-4 different answers and now our problem is even deeper. We maybe able to be alright with having Hunt as our lead guard IF we had some other player that really scared other teams, but we don't.
 
I agree DLO is not at that level right now - but I can see him at that level as the season progresses. But where you are spot on - who is that 2nd or even 3rd player he can count on. And usually - that next level is a big guy. King had Quinn. KA had Harper and Geriot. Gilly had Golden, etc. We usually have that combination of elite guard, with a very good big man and I don't see that this year at all once you get past DLO.
 
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It's Nescovic by a clear margin for me, but he's getting 21m a game bc, well, Moon doesn't know his own rotations or best lineups going into game 4.

Also, for DLo, he hasn't made a 3 against a D1 team and is 10-18 FTs in those games. The reason I think he's a complementary scorer is that I don't think he's readily looking to shoot 3s unless wide open. As a third/fourth option last year (I think we agree King and Quinn were 1-2) he was able to get cleaner looks that he's not getting as someone always with the ball this year.
 
Still early but guess I overrated the players on this team, especially offensively. Hunt not King but doing his best to impersonate him. Didn't think I would say it, but sure do miss Quinn. And thinking Tyne would progress offensively, and hopefully will but not there presently. My perception or more fact that Tyne made some big shots last year? Though now seeing Tyne only shot 28% from deep and 38% with 2PTA.

Still way early but sadly only two scorers presently we can count on to provide points. Again only two games but ranked off. reb % at 360. Last time under 300 was 2011-12 though many winning years in spite of it. The Mooney way! Though this might turn out to be the worst Mooney shooting team since? If it continues might want to start crashing the boards more. Getting back in transition quickly might not help this team for defensive purposes.
 
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I never understood the faith people had in Walz and Tanner. Walz was a 6’10” player in a league of 6’4” centers in high school and still averaged fewer than 10 points a game. Why did people think he would suddenly be an offensive threat? Tanner didn’t really play last year so not sure where the faith came from. Like I said in a different post, I thought the incoming freshmen would be good, but if they can’t play on this team, then that’s a clear sign that they aren’t.
 
Like I said in a different post, I thought the incoming freshmen would be good, but if they can’t play on this team, then that’s a clear sign that they aren’t.
Is it though? I feel like there’s a clear history of this coaching staff not getting the eventual starters correct at the beginning of the season.

It seems entirely possible that history is repeating itself. Btw, I get that it’s problematic that they’re reportedly redshirting.
 
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I never understood the faith people had in Walz and Tanner. Walz was a 6’10” player in a league of 6’4” centers in high school and still averaged fewer than 10 points a game. Why did people think he would suddenly be an offensive threat? Tanner didn’t really play last year so not sure where the faith came from. Like I said in a different post, I thought the incoming freshmen would be good, but if they can’t play on this team, then that’s a clear sign that they aren’t.
They are choosing to redshirt. That is way different than "can't play on this team."

There's lots to criticize about this team and the coaching this year. We don't need to manufacture other stuff.
 
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They are choosing to redshirt. That is way different than "can't play on this team."

There's lots to criticize about this team and the coaching this year. We don't need to manufacture other stuff.
But, are they choosing to redshirt based on the coaching staff saying to them, " looks like you will be buried behind guys and I don't see much playing time at all this year. Maybe a few minutes in routs, but that's probably it. So, it's your decision, but what are your thoughts on redshirting"? I seriously doubt they were recruited this way, and I doubt they walked in here day 1 wanting to reshirt or thinking they would. And, I just don't see them out of nowhere going to the staff and bringing up the redshirt choice when it happened.
 
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But, are they choosing to redshirt based on the coaching staff saying to them, " looks like you will be buried behind guys and I don't see much playing time at all this year. Maybe a few minutes in routs, but that's probably it. So, it's your decision, but what are your thoughts on redshirting"? I seriously doubt they were recruited this way, and I doubt they walked in here day 1 wanting to reshirt or thinking they would. And, I just don't see them out of nowhere going to the staff and bringing up the redshirt choice when it happened.
Exactly. And honestly if these guys are buried behind the current players on the floor, I have concerns about how good they are going to be next year. Tanner is not lighting up as our starter and frankly none of our reserves have shown us much either, but Mooney apparently determined these 2 were behind all of them. That does not inspire much confidence.
 
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Exactly. And honestly if these guys are buried behind the current players on the floor, I have concerns about how good they are going to be next year. Tanner is not lighting up as our starter and frankly none of our reserves have shown us much either, but Mooney apparently determined these 2 were behind all of them. That does not inspire much confidence.
There is really no other way to look at it. It's one thing if we were throwing a bunch of all A-10 guys in front of them or at least talented looking guys who had been here a few years showing us how good they are. But, looking at who they are behind can't make any of us feel good about them right now. If Tanner is so much better than them that he starts and they can't even be good enough for rotation minutes..... yikes!!!!
 
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Yeah I don't think it means they "can't play on this team" but I do think it means they can't beat out who is playing and they're still in development stage. Which usually means another year for the game development.

Because in college hoops if you're clearly in rotation and/or possibly start you don't redshirt.
 
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