Whats the best way to get a shooter out of a
slump ? Get to the line . Drive Jason drive !
He’s going to be fine .
slump ? Get to the line . Drive Jason drive !
He’s going to be fine .
Roche
- Thread starter Sandbridge Spider
- Start date
I agree he will be fine. He needs his first couple to go in and get and stay in a groove. We need him.
Most shooters go through slumps, he is one at present. I feel confident right now that he just needs to see a few go through and he will be fine.
My observation last game is that he is pressing a bit. He knows he is out there to shoot 3's so any small window he has he is trying to make that happen. If I'm Mooney, I would work in a few set plays designed to get Roche a wide open look in the hopes that gets him on track.
Get him enough run so he doesn’t feel like every touch has to be a shot. Also as mentioned just seeing ball go through hoop a couple times helps so if he can get to the line, could kickstart a return to form.
My opinion - he will be fine when we play lower competition. But when we play tougher and quicker, longer competition - he has shown he struggles. Look at last year - he ended up at 38.5% for the year from 3. That is a very good shooter.
But he dipped down to 32% in the conference. So I think he will end up in the 33-38% range by the end of the year. He will have games where he goes 4-7 from deep, then others where he goes 0-4 I don't think he will be a consistent 3 point shooter from game to game. It will depend a lot on matchups and opponents, as I do think he struggles against certain opponents and matchups. And those might be games where his minutes are limited.
This is a shift from my expectation for Roche. I thought he might be a starter this year and was hopeful he would be a consistent 3 point threat night in and night out. Playing 25+ minutes a night and getting 4-5 three points attempts each game. But that doesn't seem to be the case. And even with injury to Hunt, his minutes might increase slightly - but will likely depend on matchup and opponent.
But he dipped down to 32% in the conference. So I think he will end up in the 33-38% range by the end of the year. He will have games where he goes 4-7 from deep, then others where he goes 0-4 I don't think he will be a consistent 3 point shooter from game to game. It will depend a lot on matchups and opponents, as I do think he struggles against certain opponents and matchups. And those might be games where his minutes are limited.
This is a shift from my expectation for Roche. I thought he might be a starter this year and was hopeful he would be a consistent 3 point threat night in and night out. Playing 25+ minutes a night and getting 4-5 three points attempts each game. But that doesn't seem to be the case. And even with injury to Hunt, his minutes might increase slightly - but will likely depend on matchup and opponent.
One of my concerns about Moonball is that there does not seem to be a pattern of where on the court the offense gets its shooters their shots. I understand it is a motion and take what the defense gives system but for a shooter like Roche, feel like understanding where on the court he makes the most and how (off a screen, off dribble, off catch-and-shoot) would be a priority. It would make the offense more deadly and open up the middle more for Quinn.
Is there anywhere that does shot graphs for ncaa players? I’d love to see Roche’s for last 2 years.
Is there anywhere that does shot graphs for ncaa players? I’d love to see Roche’s for last 2 years.
Roche did have good 3-point shooting nights against some solid teams last year. 4-8 against Syracuse, 2-3 vs Clemson, 3-5 vs SBU, 3-7 vs SLU.
every shooter will have some swings, but I'll take 38.5% for the season all day long.
22 attempts this year is a small sample size. he's a a very good shooter. I'm not at all worried about him.
brownstone ........For shot graphs that go into detail usually have to pay because of analytics required.
We've covered it a lot over the years, but this situation fits the bill perfectly for me - only 7 or 8 guys on most college basketball teams are going to play major minutes. Typically, guys 9 and 10 might get a few minutes one game and 10 or 15 the next. The rest of the guys may not even see the court for many games at a time, if at all.
So some players will naturally be shuffled down the line based on talent, level of opponent, injuries, performance, and other factors. If the other guys at the 2/3 spot are outplaying him and we are winning (which are both true at the moment) then he will likely continue having a somewhat reduced role.
I was hoping to see him take the next step and be an A10 starter level player. And who knows, maybe he still will. But maybe he's just going to be #8 or 9 on the team - somebody will be.
So some players will naturally be shuffled down the line based on talent, level of opponent, injuries, performance, and other factors. If the other guys at the 2/3 spot are outplaying him and we are winning (which are both true at the moment) then he will likely continue having a somewhat reduced role.
I was hoping to see him take the next step and be an A10 starter level player. And who knows, maybe he still will. But maybe he's just going to be #8 or 9 on the team - somebody will be.
It is my belief that above average shooting typically boils down to 3 main components. 1) Mindset - great shooters are VERY confident that every time they let it go, it is going in. Roche certainly has demonstrated this confidence in the past. 2) Mechanics - Roche has demonstrated mastery over the mechanics in the past. 3) Shot selection - Better shot selection decisions typically result in a higher percentage of makes.
Nearly always when a really good shooter goes into a slump, it stems from a head issue. If confidence goes down, (success is down) the mind tends to cause us to press. We tend to try too hard to forcibly make it get better. Often the result is we inadvertently and unknowingly make small changes to our mechanics (such as aiming a shot instead of shooting it from rhythm like we have done thousands of times before). The mind can start to hope for the shot to go in instead of just firing away with repetitious muscle memory. You see this same phenomenon at work when players can't make a free throw. Usually a head issue.
I have mentioned previously what I see as the second component. It seems that he has been told (and believes) that his role is to almost exclusively be a catch and release 3-point shooter. I think this is causing him to put a lot of pressure on himself to be that guy. Too often, Roche throws the ball at the basket (like he has a hot potato in his hands) nearly as soon as it touches his hand. This is causing his shot selection to often be poor, and his mechanics to be off.
If I were coaching Roche, I would do everything that I could to take the role pressure off of him. Just play ball, contribute in multiple ways, and forget the idea that "I Must" drain a three every time I touch the ball. In other words, change the definition of (Roche) success in his head.
It is my belief that if/when (it isn't guaranteed that he will regain mastery over his mind) Roche can feel that he isn't under the pressure of being only a 3-guy, then it is highly likely that his shooting success will return. I am willing to bet that confidence & repetitious muscle memory (over mind tricks) will make the ball start going thru the basket again. I wish him good luck.
Nearly always when a really good shooter goes into a slump, it stems from a head issue. If confidence goes down, (success is down) the mind tends to cause us to press. We tend to try too hard to forcibly make it get better. Often the result is we inadvertently and unknowingly make small changes to our mechanics (such as aiming a shot instead of shooting it from rhythm like we have done thousands of times before). The mind can start to hope for the shot to go in instead of just firing away with repetitious muscle memory. You see this same phenomenon at work when players can't make a free throw. Usually a head issue.
I have mentioned previously what I see as the second component. It seems that he has been told (and believes) that his role is to almost exclusively be a catch and release 3-point shooter. I think this is causing him to put a lot of pressure on himself to be that guy. Too often, Roche throws the ball at the basket (like he has a hot potato in his hands) nearly as soon as it touches his hand. This is causing his shot selection to often be poor, and his mechanics to be off.
If I were coaching Roche, I would do everything that I could to take the role pressure off of him. Just play ball, contribute in multiple ways, and forget the idea that "I Must" drain a three every time I touch the ball. In other words, change the definition of (Roche) success in his head.
It is my belief that if/when (it isn't guaranteed that he will regain mastery over his mind) Roche can feel that he isn't under the pressure of being only a 3-guy, then it is highly likely that his shooting success will return. I am willing to bet that confidence & repetitious muscle memory (over mind tricks) will make the ball start going thru the basket again. I wish him good luck.
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That makes a lot of sense, changing his role on the team to find his niche could be what the doctor orders. He needs to let the game come to him.
Is it just me or has his defense progressed
significantly? That will get you on the floor
with Moon.
guys .. he's 7-22 (31.8%)!
if he made just one more he'd be at 36.4% and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
two more and he'd be at 41% and we'd be talking about how amazing he's been.
he's fine.
if he made just one more he'd be at 36.4% and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
two more and he'd be at 41% and we'd be talking about how amazing he's been.
he's fine.
His volume isn't enough to cause many to say that he is amazing even if it was 41%, which it isn't. If you believe that Roche just hasn't happened to make a better percentage (or just hasn't happened to get more good shots) due to a fluke of nature, that is your choice.
My opinion does not revolve around Roche having one bad shooting game, that happens to everyone. The duration of his struggle indicates that other factors are in play. You may recall that many have been quizzical about his production since he became a Spider.
Covering one's eyes, and crossing one's fingers is a strategy. I do not believe that Roche is going to magically regain his stroke and increase his production by luck or happen chance. Thus my previous post.
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You may be right . What I see is a streak
shooter on offense. Improved on defense.
You can’t argue when’s he’s hot it opens
up the offense . We’re feeding Quin now
with a high percentage. That should probably
be the discussion. Only five games into the
season . We’re deep athletic. Bringing the
energy. Go Spiders
shooter on offense. Improved on defense.
You can’t argue when’s he’s hot it opens
up the offense . We’re feeding Quin now
with a high percentage. That should probably
be the discussion. Only five games into the
season . We’re deep athletic. Bringing the
energy. Go Spiders
one thing I didn't like seeing last night was Roche passing up what looked like an open 3 in the corner.
even though he hasn't been hitting, a shooter has to believe the next one is going in. can't have him on the floor if he's not going to take open 3's.
even though he hasn't been hitting, a shooter has to believe the next one is going in. can't have him on the floor if he's not going to take open 3's.
I would like to see, just one frickin time, a pump fake and hard dribble with the intent to either drive or pull up (a la Khwan Fore or Darien Brothers). Giving the defense a look, even once, of something other than a catch-and-shoot or an immediate panic-stricken pass back to the point could do a world of good.
