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Mooney extension and/or raise

Removing the emotion and sticking to 1 NCAA appearance in 11 years doesn’t support an extension in my mind. Very happy for the results this year, but one year doesn’t negate the 10 or so previous non appearances.
This is 100% spot on. I suspect that they will give him a raise and an extension (because it fits their management mode) but it really makes no sense to immediately reward 1-improbable result and ignore 11 previous results.

A contract revision that would pay him increased incentives for future results makes a lot of sense.
 
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This seems foundationally inaccurate. There are plenty of coaches who would take the job here for well under CMs annual pay. That’s just basic supply and demand.

if we hope to get someone with a similar pedigree then maybe your argument holds water but I think you’re bringing in a pretty well regarded coach at that level. Lots of up and comers who wouldn’t require $1.3M.
I think we are in a position where we wouldn't need an up and comer. If for whatever reason, Mooney is not our coach anymore, we should be able to get a proven guy in here and pay him at least 6.5 million for 5 years. But, as far as Mooney is concerned, as I said a few posts ago, you already made a decision based on years up to 2019, and you stuck with him. Now, you make a decision based on the last 3 years, which to me seems like a raise and an extension are in order.
 
I am bullish on Mooney for now. I would agree that recruiting has been pretty solid the last few years, and the recent commit of Trevor Smith was a super pick up. Looks like we are involved with some very nice bigs now too. While we all can critique certain aspects of this coaching, I do believe when he has the players he has had pretty good success - covid season as outlier. In the long NCAA drought, I and others were able to point out obvious holes in the line up and very little to no depth. While I would have like to seen more athleticism added in the portal - I do think he did well and put us in position to challenge next season. While I think some teams have more talent on paper, we should have the players to challenge for the top of the A10 standings. Patrick Ewing had a good run the season before this past and made the NCAA's then reverted to the bottom of the BE. I don't think that will happen to the Spiders, but a mid pack A10 finish would indicate problems and more of the lethargy of the past 10 years. This will be unique and require Mooney to blend in some key experience players, with young guys and portal guys. That is the challenge.
 
I don't think Mooney is looking to leave, and I don't think a big program is looking to scoop him up. so an extension isn't really necessary. I'm startng to buy into the idea that recruits don't necessarily need to see a coach has a long term deal, which doesn't guarantee he'll be around long term anyway. they just want to know the coach is on good footing.

but if Hardt is happy with the direction and the recruiting and the way Mooney handles the program, I don't see a reason NOT to extend him either. I could see adding 2 years.
 
This seems foundationally inaccurate. There are plenty of coaches who would take the job here for well under CMs annual pay. That’s just basic supply and demand.

if we hope to get someone with a similar pedigree then maybe your argument holds water but I think you’re bringing in a pretty well regarded coach at that level. Lots of up and comers who wouldn’t require $1.3M.
It also shows the support and commitment you have to the program. By not giving some sort of extensions or modest raise after an NCAA bid - I think it will limit what coaches looks at us in the future. OR - if they do look at us - the price will increase, because in their mind they will say - if I make the NCAA tourney - you might give me nothing just like you did Mooney, so I better get my money upfront to make sure I get paid either way. And I got a feeling when and if Mooney leaves or retires, UR will like to get below the $1 million threshold for basketball coach.
 
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I think the administration keeps quiet the details. He may have already been extended for life at 2M per year for all we know. What advantage is gained from message board snipers knowing?
 
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This seems foundationally inaccurate. There are plenty of coaches who would take the job here for well under CMs annual pay. That’s just basic supply and demand.

if we hope to get someone with a similar pedigree then maybe your argument holds water but I think you’re bringing in a pretty well regarded coach at that level. Lots of up and comers who wouldn’t require $1.3M.
Why would we want an “up and comer” ? That would be a gamble, not worth taking in my book.
Look how many “up and comers” have come to the A-10, only to be gone several years later. And I might add
all of this while Mooney is still here.
 
When have we ever not hired an up and comer?
seriously.
there's only 3 scenarios I can think of:
1) a successful head coach at a lower level (up and comer)
2) a successful assistant at a higher level (also an up and comer)
3) a failed former coach at a higher level.
 
seriously.
there's only 3 scenarios I can think of:
1) a successful head coach at a lower level (up and comer)
2) a successful assistant at a higher level (also an up and comer)
3) a failed former coach at a higher level.
Or, a successful head coach at a similar, but slightly lower level. Or, even the same level, and the same conference, like a Mark Schmidt type. And, choice 3 is not always bad. I bet Dayton is happy with Grant right now. I guess it depends on what you think up and comer means because it is all opinion, but I would think Richmond would be an attractive job for quite a few solid, proven head coaches out there.
 
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I guess it depends on what you think up and comer means because it is all opinion, but I would think Richmond would be an attractive job for quite a few solid, proven head coaches out there.
good point. I'm thinking of a Matt Langel type at Colgate. the guy's been successful for a long time. tough to call him an up and comer.
 
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VCU has done nothing but hire up-and-comers (current hear coaches at lower programs). Worked out pretty well for them.

I'm not sure who we would be expected to hire when the day comes who is at an equal or better job already. It would have to be a washed-up guy or one of those rare cases of an Archie Miller type who happened to be available. Otherwise, the up-and-comer is going to be our main choice.
 
I think we are in a position where we wouldn't need an up and comer. If for whatever reason, Mooney is not our coach anymore, we should be able to get a proven guy in here and pay him at least 6.5 million for 5 years. But, as far as Mooney is concerned, as I said a few posts ago, you already made a decision based on years up to 2019, and you stuck with him. Now, you make a decision based on the last 3 years, which to me seems like a raise and an extension are in order.

Can't evaluate 2019 w/o factoring the contract length remaining imo. Stuck with him can have 2 different meanings. We stuck with him or we were stuck with him. We don't know Hardt would have done but I think most agree had Mooney had say 1 or 2 years left on his contract during some of those years it's a different evaluation. Most also believe UR wouldn't buy out lengthy contracts. Just saying the contract terms remaining certainly played into it and hamstrung us. So I'd rather not get into another contract where you r hamstrung.
 
We are still a mid-major in my eyes, and therefore - we hire an up and comer. Whether that is an assistant from a power school looking for first HC job, or we get a hot and successful coach from lower ranks who is looking to move up. Either way - I don't care if these coaches use UR as a stepping stone, cause if they do - that likely means they were successful at UR to keep moving up.
 
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I've gotten lost.

So when are we hiring someone who just finished 5th or higher in a P5 the prior season?
 
I think we are in a position where we wouldn't need an up and comer. If for whatever reason, Mooney is not our coach anymore, we should be able to get a proven guy in here and pay him at least 6.5 million for 5 years. But, as far as Mooney is concerned, as I said a few posts ago, you already made a decision based on years up to 2019, and you stuck with him. Now, you make a decision based on the last 3 years, which to me seems like a raise and an extension are in order.
We could do that but UR has literally never hired coaches that way.
 
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We could do that but UR has literally never hired coaches that way.
Well, we have also not had a lot of coaches the past 25 years. We were still in the CAA when Beilein went from Canisius to here. Then, only a year after moving to the A-10, we got Wainwright from the same CAA conference we were in. Then, we got Mooney from Air Force, who was in a pretty good conference, with Utah and New Mexico both going dancing the year Mooney went 18-12 there. So, it's not like we got Mooney from a much lesser conference, and that was 17 years ago.. All head coaches at their previous stop, and I would think anyone would agree that we are now a much more attractive job for a head coach than we were then. I doubt we would go after an "up and comer" from Canisius now, right?
 
I think some of you guys are children of the Grim Reaper. Why in June,
after a successful year, followed by a successful recruiting of transfers
and players is this even a discussion?
 
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Well, we have also not had a lot of coaches the past 25 years. We were still in the CAA when Beilein went from Canisius to here. Then, only a year after moving to the A-10, we got Wainwright from the same CAA conference we were in. Then, we got Mooney from Air Force, who was in a pretty good conference, with Utah and New Mexico both going dancing the year Mooney went 18-12 there. So, it's not like we got Mooney from a much lesser conference, and that was 17 years ago.. All head coaches at their previous stop, and I would think anyone would agree that we are now a much more attractive job for a head coach than we were then. I doubt we would go after an "up and comer" from Canisius now, right?
I have zero reason to think we’d go after a straight “like for like” replacement. Again, we’ve never done that.

Is it possible? Of course, but seems super unlikely.
 
I think some of you guys are children of the Grim Reaper. Why in June,
after a successful year, followed by a successful recruiting of transfers
and players is this even a discussion?
You answered it. Because it is June. Why not? Just having a little fun with the what if game. It would be like asking who would start if Tyler didn't come back. Yes, irrelevant because he is back, but still could lead to some good discussion if done the right way, just like this discussion.
 
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Well Dude, why aren’t there any discussions with a positive vain? I’m not new to this board Dude.
Feel free to start an intriguing positive hypothetical (vein).

Ftr, I don’t see this as a negative topic, it’s just what folks think the merits of an extension are that then pivoted to what Mooney’s replacement might cost. Not a negative topic unless you choose to interpret it as such.
 
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I think some of you guys are children of the Grim Reaper. Why in June,
after a successful year, followed by a successful recruiting of transfers
and players is this even a discussion?
I honestly can’t believe we are even considering giving Mooney an extension after last season and can’t think of a more critical issue facing the team right now. You’ll never convince me last year went as expected; in fact I was very disappointed with how it went until the final weeks. I honestly thought we’d be in the conversation for a top 25 slot throughout the season. If we fall flat again next year then I think we need the ability to go in a different direction.
 
I honestly can’t believe we are even considering giving Mooney an extension after last season and can’t think of a more critical issue facing the team right now. You’ll never convince me last year went as expected; in fact I was very disappointed with how it went until the final weeks. I honestly thought we’d be in the conversation for a top 25 slot throughout the season. If we fall flat again next year then I think we need the ability to go in a different direction.
I get this reaction but also think the optics make it hard not to extend him after making the tournament, ignoring the method by which it happened.

If you look purely at the contract as a mechanism to prevent a departure, I don’t think CM has tons of suitors chasing him so Hardt probably takes that into account but there are other reasons he would.
 
We are most certainly hiring from the likes of Canisus (if there team was good and coach was the "hot" coach at the time". Look at some of the names mentioned here already - everyone expected Hardt to look at Bucknell (if they were any good the last few years) and Colgate coach is doing very well.

Or just look around the A10 of new coaches hired. LaSalle, URI and UMASS all hired guys fired or retired from bigger programs. Not up and comers in my book - 2 guys on way down (MIller and Martin) and Dunphy at LaSalle was probably not on way down, but not on way up I guess - he stepped down from Temple job, was interim AD, and then got back into coaching.
 
nothing wrong with discussing, but this is something I don't think we're going to have to deal with for a long time if we follow up with another good season. #coachforlife
 
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nothing wrong with discussing, but this is something I don't think we're going to have to deal with for a long time if we follow up with another good season. #coachforlife
The question is - what is a good season this year. And there are likely 2 answers to this question.

1) What does Hardt think is a good season?

2) What do you think a good season would be?
 
The question is - what is a good season this year. And there are likely 2 answers to this question.

1) What does Hardt think is a good season?

2) What do you think a good season would be?
Well, this is interesting. I am NCAA or bust again. That is how the good mid major programs think and act. By going out and plugging in Quinn, Roche and Bigelow - we are seeming to go all in. Otherwise we plug in Randolph, Dread, and Noyes and take our lumps for a year looking to the following year. Quinn was probably the biggest necessity in order to be competitive - as we struck out on big man recruits with the guy who transferred to FGCU. I have hope for Walz, but think being able to work him up to speed next two seasons is ideal. But to your point, I m sure following the NCAA year Hardt is thinking we just need to compete the next two seasons.
 
From Hardt Perspective - I think if this team is above .500 and wins a game or two in the A10 tourney - its a successful season. That is competing.

For me - I think this team should be a solid NIT team, and if the ball bounces are way a few times - maybe we get into the NCAA bubble conversation. But no way we should not make a post-season this year - NCAA or NIT. I think it might take time for the new pieces to gel and pick up Mooney system and his style - but I could see us picking up steam in 2nd half of season.
 
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Without discussion the message board would be less entertaining. It's a way to talk about Spider sports endlessly even when your wife tells you she is tired of hearing about it...................Unless you live next door to another spider fan who else or where else will you meet this need?
 
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TBD. tough to say what to expect. I really like the pieces but we don't have a lot of UR minutes returning. depending on the rotations, I worry about our scoring.

on the perimeter:
we lose some shooting at the point.
I don't know how many minutes Roche gets.
and we don't have much shooting in the front court outside of Burton. maybe Bigelow and Grace gets their percentages up.

on the inside, we had Golden and Cayo who you could flip the ball to late in the clock and they could get you a bucket. not sure if we have that type any more.
 
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I would hope Quinn would be a guy we can get the ball to late in the clock, especially if we get some good outside shooting and he is not doubled all the time. Also, I think we will be going to Tyler a lot late in the clock. Like we did with Blake when the shot clock was winding down, just give the ball to Tyler and let him do his thing. Not only does Tyler have the ability to score a lot at different places on the floor, he also draws a lot of fouls, so you want the ball in his hands a lot, which could lead to foul trouble for the other team. We have a potential conference player of the year, NBA guy here. He needs the ball a lot.

I think with Goose, Tyler, and Grace, we have some solid minutes returning. And, the transfers might be new to our program, but they have experience and have played a lot of college minutes as well. I actually see us scoring more this year than last year. I said it earlier, PG is the key. I think we have a good idea of what we have everywhere else on the floor. We don't have college minutes returning at point guard. I think we will be in good shape there, but it is still unknown at this point.

 
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