Mooney extension and/or raise

[Not-A-Homer]

I'm not ready to conceed that.

yes there are question marks. and we might still need to add a piece or two. but we'll find the points. I think this group can be a better defensive team.

Agree that there is potential to be a better defensive team, BUT, we know that Mooney can't get his veteran teams into the NCAA tournament regularly, there is just above zero chance that he will get an inexperienced team with lots of new players into the NCAA tournament.

A new coach with young players, might be a different story. But, there isn't going to be a new coach.

 

[97spiderfan]

Were going to be picked preseason in the lower half of the A-10, no way this is an NCAA team. However, I do think we have the ability to actually exceed our preseason expectations with this squad. No one will know anything about us, but I think a Grace, Burton, Goose, Nelson, Dji/Crabtree starting line-up isn't too shabby.

 

[spider23]

Here is where I want to see Mooney earn his money. I think you plug in a Quinn (or better) and a stud shooting guard, and you can have a shot at the top of the A10. You have arguably the best returning player in the A10 in Burton. Nelson got next. A healthy Dji, Crab, and Goose. Amazing Grace back and better than ever. IF you get those two high impact transfers, you should have some pieces to compete for an A10 championship. A lot of "IFS" I know, but Mooney needs to sell the two impact transfers on this vision, and then make it work.

Maybe spiderdad could speak to this, or anyone else give an opinion. I feel like it is a possibility that the trio of Crab, Dji and Goose were really hampered by injuries and never really played near their full talent capabilities. Obviously Dji had the issue with his ankle that kept him out. Goose had the hip surgeries and we saw his impact immediately once back in the lineup - but have to think he did not have an offseason. And Crab, I know he was coming off surgery year before, then I think more injuries that kept him out for most of offseason?

I do feel like that trio could really be improved with a full offseason of injury free work. A lot has to go right, but this is where the VCU's and St. Mary's and Davidson's separate themselves. Look at Davidson plugging in Loyer, without him they are talking about bottom half of A10 probably. Let's see Mooney make this work next year.

 

[LKNSPIDER]

For what? A raise and extension for how you should have been performing or exceeding the last 11 years?
I was good with CM his first years up until the second half of the Kansas game when the scales fell of my eyes and I realized he was riding KA and not making any adjustment help. I loved watching the improvement the first year. I will always remember the seton hall victory. We played slow and deliberate and built a lead, controlled the tempo. SH suddenly realized they were in a fix and went into panic mood (you could see panic In the players faces) trying th play hurry up the tempo and they just threw the ball away. I was at the thugging at the corner. The O was surgical, I loved it and then KA was pummeled crossing the paint- no whistle. The coach changed his O to uptempo a bit but NEVER changed the D to fit the personnel leaving KA at times under the basket guarding a center. ( And remind me, what’s a rebound? Oh yea a free ball)
He never adjusted his game to the players strengths. The year before. Fore left he had four really quick and good guards including Fore, maybe with Cedric and Shandre and KA. He could have platooned two by two and had them press the whole game. They were quick and fast, but no.
Yes I stopped my season tickets in maybe 2012-2013. I haven’t been back because nothing changed. I was sad but have no feeling now. The final run and NCAA resurrected the good feelings of long ago. But the title of this thread is making me think that I may never be back and free hotdogs and $5.00 tickets are not incentives.

 

[Section9.RowD]

Here is where I want to see Mooney earn his money. I think you plug in a Quinn (or better) and a stud shooting guard, and you can have a shot at the top of the A10. You have arguably the best returning player in the A10 in Burton. Nelson got next. A healthy Dji, Crab, and Goose. Amazing Grace back and better than ever. IF you get those two high impact transfers, you should have some pieces to compete for an A10 championship. A lot of "IFS" I know, but Mooney needs to sell the two impact transfers on this vision, and then make it work.

Maybe spiderdad could speak to this, or anyone else give an opinion. I feel like it is a possibility that the trio of Crab, Dji and Goose were really hampered by injuries and never really played near their full talent capabilities. Obviously Dji had the issue with his ankle that kept him out. Goose had the hip surgeries and we saw his impact immediately once back in the lineup - but have to think he did not have an offseason. And Crab, I know he was coming off surgery year before, then I think more injuries that kept him out for most of offseason?

I do feel like that trio could really be improved with a full offseason of injury free work. A lot has to go right, but this is where the VCU's and St. Mary's and Davidson's separate themselves. Look at Davidson plugging in Loyer, without him they are talking about bottom half of A10 probably. Let's see Mooney make this work next year.

Great post … reloading and strategic placing of extra help is key

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

I would offer a 2-year extension at the same level but with incentives for the things we achieved this year (winning the league, making the tourney, winning a game). And a $300,000 buyout.

This sounds about right for me two years, same salary with incentives and buyout. You really wouldn't expect to give him a decrease in pay after making the tourney especially with what same level A10 coaches are now receiving.

Also about coaching interesting interview with Jay Wright at HT of the Ohio St game. Nova had like a 10 point lead. First question about your team playing well staying the course. Paraphrasing Wright "well we will have to see how they come out in the second half and go from there."

Last question going back in what is needed in second half and Wright with a smile again "we will have to see what they do, I expect changes and then will go from there." Look there's only one Jay Wright, but like the his thought process of though Nova playing well, still thinking adjustments might still be necessary. I like my coach in having Wright's mindset though they might not be as successful.

 

[SpiderRick]

raise and extension and also raise for Coach Fezz

Fezz, you could be on the bench as the wardrobe consultant! And while you are there, maybe you could whisper in Mooney's ear with some in-game recommendations.

 

[SpiderFan]

2 years for recruiting, no raise. It shouldn't have been 11 years between trips. He had some terrible years in there and should be thankful he wasn't fired--he certainly should have been--multiple times. If he doesn't want to sign, fantastic, take another job and we can reset.

 

[wr70beh]

I'm not giving credit for two NCAA's in three years. but I am giving credit for the 24-7 record in 2019-20. we had a really good year.
2020-21 was a weird covid year.
expectations were very high this year and we didn't meet them in the regular season, but we still ended with a really good year.

we're a pretty strong 62-29 the past 3 years.

I would give credit for 24-7 as well. But would they have had the same record this year if the NCAA wouldn’t have granted the extra year of eligibility? There are a lot of “what ifs” here, and depending on how you view Mooney you can twist them how you like.

 

[SpiderGuy]

I would give credit for 24-7 as well. But would they have had the same record this year if the NCAA wouldn’t have granted the extra year of eligibility? There are a lot of “what ifs” here, and depending on how you view Mooney you can twist them how you like.

Take Grant, Gilly, NS, and Cayo out of the equation for this year. Just an opinion, but my "what ifs" says I doubt A10 Tournament wins and a run into the 2nd round of NCAA Tournament would have occurred.

And I'm sure there are some who would say "but we may have had recruits & other players step up", but I'm not buying that.

 

[Long Island Spiders]

No extension. Players should care way less about a coach having four years on their contract given the transfer portal and how easy it is to move programs now.

We need to adjust our mindset now.

 

[GKiller]

No extension. Players should care way less about a coach having four years on their contract given the transfer portal and how easy it is to move programs now.

We need to adjust our mindset now.

that’s a good point. The ease of movement makes the whole “recruits need to see job security” which was inflated anyway imo, less of a contributing factor to contract length. The problem is ADs r slow to the uptake. Or beholden to the exact same search firms that helped get them hired. Not all but too many of them r failed coaches anyway. The $ has caused it to get out of hand but i hope these school admins like U of R wise up & take back some control. They let agents or search firms walk all over them.

 

[RichmondNative]

In addition to the points made earlier in the thread, I think it would be in UR’s best interest to see how the current staff fares with the transfer portal this year before there is additional commitment. Everyone knows it is now a big factor and the track record on transfers has been at most average in addition to the fact that the “system” takes time to learn. Looks like lots of adjustments are going to need to be made in order to continue the recent success.

 

[SpiderK]

In another year or so the players won’t care about who the coach is. They will just want to hear how much NIL money the alumni can offer them.

 

[Eight Legger]

In another year or so the players won’t care about who the coach is. They will just want to hear how much NIL money the alumni can offer them.

Why do you think our super seniors all came back?

You're welcome. 😎

 

[KWeaver]

I'm just curious about why the players get fired up only after some perceived external slight (i.e., billboard or petition). Is this the only way to motivate Mooney, or for his players to feel motivated? Hard to understand.

 

[SpiderK]

I'm just curious about why the players get fired up only after some perceived external slight (i.e., billboard or petition). Is this the only way to motivate Mooney, or for his players to feel motivated? Hard to understand.

That’s seems to be the case.

 

[spiderman]

In another year or so the players won’t care about who the coach is. They will just want to hear how much NIL money the alumni can offer them.

St Peter's is doing better with NIL than we are!

 

[SpiderK]

St Peter's is doing better with NIL than we are!

View embedded media

Paid dividends for them already. They bought a sweet 16 for a few free wings.

 

[SFspidur]

Hardt so far refusing to say what's going on with Mooney's contract situation...

“Chris Mooney and I recently began our annual postseason discussion and evaluation of Spider men’s basketball. This past season was a special one — winning four games in four days to earn the A-10 championship followed by the outstanding first-round victory in the NCAA tournament versus the Big Ten champion Iowa Hawkeye team!

“The team’s success this season is a reflection of the tremendous work coach Mooney performs as the head coach of our basketball program, and we look forward to continued success in future seasons under his leadership.”

If Chris Mooney's UR deal is changing after A-10 title, NCAA win, school's not saying

Coaches whose teams win championships are often rewarded with improved contract terms.

richmond.com

 

[Eight Legger]

Mooney’s getting fired.

 

[97spiderfan]

Hardt so far refusing to say what's going on with Mooney's contract situation...

If Chris Mooney's UR deal is changing after A-10 title, NCAA win, school's not saying

Coaches whose teams win championships are often rewarded with improved contract terms.

richmond.com

Smart play by Hardt. I presume Hardt was probably having some sleepless nights prior to our run in DC. The petition, donors speaking up, getting heat on social media. So that was all there and then we made a magical run and things changed. But you just don't forget that this was the environment.

Hardt had Mooney's back (at least publicly) when he was getting all of this heat, it would be nice if Mooney and his agent remembered that. If Mooney's comes out and perform this year with his new staff, he will be in a much stronger position.

 

[SpiderTrap]

That just tells me Hardt is scared. Scared to fire Mooney when he probably should have, and now scared to come out and say he supports Mooney and is rewarding him.

Listen - I was one of the people saying after the two horrible seasons, he probably should have been fired. BUT - they stuck with him and guess what - he made a magical run in the A10 tourney and won and NCAA game. There is NO WAY as an AD you can't reward that. And by not doing it publicly, if I were Mooney - I would be pissed. This is Hardt's time to shine - time to tell people, see - I told you so. But instead he seems to coward in his office and stay quiet. And I not clamoring for a long extension or raise. But I don't think anyone would argue Hardt came out today and said - We have extended Mooney by 2-3 years and give him or his staff a small raise. They earned it. No doubt about it. But by being quiet - I had little respect for big hat, now I have even less.

 

[Wood Hall]

Paid dividends for them already. They bought a sweet 16 for a few free wings.

Wonder if that deal is still in effect since he transferred?

Hardt being smart. Don't say anything until the deal is finalized.

 

[VT4700]

That just tells me Hardt is scared. Scared to fire Mooney when he probably should have, and now scared to come out and say he supports Mooney and is rewarding him.

Listen - I was one of the people saying after the two horrible seasons, he probably should have been fired. BUT - they stuck with him and guess what - he made a magical run in the A10 tourney and won and NCAA game. There is NO WAY as an AD you can't reward that. And by not doing it publicly, if I were Mooney - I would be pissed. This is Hardt's time to shine - time to tell people, see - I told you so. But instead he seems to coward in his office and stay quiet. And I not clamoring for a long extension or raise. But I don't think anyone would argue Hardt came out today and said - We have extended Mooney by 2-3 years and give him or his staff a small raise. They earned it. No doubt about it. But by being quiet - I had little respect for big hat, now I have even less.

Wow. So, you are getting on an AD for being professional and classy instead of wanting the spotlight and being an arrogant ass and saying "I told you so". Okay. Whatever.

 

[UR80sfan]

That just tells me Hardt is scared. Scared to fire Mooney when he probably should have, and now scared to come out and say he supports Mooney and is rewarding him.

Listen - I was one of the people saying after the two horrible seasons, he probably should have been fired. BUT - they stuck with him and guess what - he made a magical run in the A10 tourney and won and NCAA game. There is NO WAY as an AD you can't reward that. And by not doing it publicly, if I were Mooney - I would be pissed. This is Hardt's time to shine - time to tell people, see - I told you so. But instead he seems to coward in his office and stay quiet. And I not clamoring for a long extension or raise. But I don't think anyone would argue Hardt came out today and said - We have extended Mooney by 2-3 years and give him or his staff a small raise. They earned it. No doubt about it. But by being quiet - I had little respect for big hat, now I have even less.

I am sure Hardt is cowering in his office after the basketball and Lax teams just went to the NCAA and the baseball team made it to the finals of the A10.

 

[GKiller]

I am sure Hardt is cowering in his office after the basketball and Lax teams just went to the NCAA and the baseball team made it to the finals of the A10.

No Trap said he was cowarding not cowering! I don't know what big hat no cattle does in his office but I bet it comes with a vegan meal.

We've been swimming upstream for basically a decade with this Mooney contract, I have no idea why we'd want to get right into another situation where you feel like you can't get out of it. I don't care what $ makes, I'm glad we pay well but term is more important imo. Coaches & agents constantly push the term narrative, it is overrated. His 2 years left currently didn't seem to affect our offseason getting transfers and commitments.

Personally I'd wait on contract talks & extension until after next season. But 1 year should be the max if they did anything. The football & bball coaches in college athletics have too much power. Lets be smart here. Last year ended up great no doubt, but what are we rewarding. 1 bid in 10 years, 3 in 16 chances? The expectations r and should be higher here. And now he gets rewarded again. Well he's already been rewarded the last 10+ years. Validate it this year and then we can talk.

Regardless the whole we don't comment on personnel matters & employment contracts is hogwash. Multi-billion dollar business we should be transparent with the highest compensated highest profile leaders like anyone else. And irony is we have a President who made his way writing extensively on executive compensation.

 

[97spiderfan]

Wow. So, you are getting on an AD for being professional and classy instead of wanting the spotlight and being an arrogant ass and saying "I told you so". Okay. Whatever.

Yeah, rubbing it in people's faces is probably not the best way to endear yourself.

"Hey all of you morons who signed the petition, called my office, refused to send it donations, how you feel now?. Big old John Hardt was right all along, my boy Moondog sure showed you ignorant rubes who don't understand big time college ball. Now, please leave me alone, media people, the Golden Corrall is opening up shortly, I got a stack of ribs with my name on it, and I thought I told you, I don't like talking to you about this contract stuff. That is private. Chris, got those pictures of me anyway, so whatever his agent proposes, I'm gonna have to sign.

 

[SpiderTrap]

He doesn't need to rub it in our faces, but why not a simple - "We believe in Chris, we have believed in him all along and last season proved that. He took this team through a pandemic and majority of players came back for their extra year - which speaks to his relationship with the players. As a result of the success from last year and success we see moving forward - we are happy to give him and staff a 2 (or 3) extension to show our commitment to them and our program"

 

[Eight Legger]

You give coaches (or employees in general) extensions/raises when a) you want to keep them and/or b) you fear that if you don't give them extensions, someone bigger will come along and poach them. I suppose sometimes you do so simply to reward achievements without any consideration of the above two points but I would say that's rare. If you don't really care whether your coach or employee leaves or not or don't think there's another bigger entity that wants that person, there's really no need in giving an extension. We'll see what Hardt thinks of Mooney.

 

[AnnapSpider]

You give coaches (or employees in general) extensions/raises when a) you want to keep them and/or b) you fear that if you don't give them extensions, someone bigger will come along and poach them. I suppose sometimes you do so simply to reward achievements without any consideration of the above two points but I would say that's rare. If you don't really care whether your coach or employee leaves or not or don't think there's another bigger entity that wants that person, there's really no need in giving an extension. We'll see what Hardt thinks of Mooney.

What Mooney is paid, would determine what we would pay, plus more, to hire a D-1 coach to replace Mooney.
From a business standpoint, and removing all of the emotions that you all generate on the board, it would be nuts at this time to consider anything but an extension of his contract.

 

[UR Fan 2]

As a private institution, UR is under no obligation to talk about Mooney's contract, right?

 

[SpiderGuy]

What Mooney is paid, would determine what we would pay, plus more, to hire a D-1 coach to replace Mooney.
From a business standpoint, and removing all of the emotions that you all generate on the board, it would be nuts at this time to consider anything but an extension of his contract.

Removing the emotion and sticking to 1 NCAA appearance in 11 years doesn’t support an extension in my mind. Very happy for the results this year,but one year doesn’t negate the 10 or so previous non appearances.

 

[Eight Legger]

What Mooney is paid, would determine what we would pay, plus more, to hire a D-1 coach to replace Mooney.
From a business standpoint, and removing all of the emotions that you all generate on the board, it would be nuts at this time to consider anything but an extension of his contract.

Why would we have to pay someone more than Mooney if he left? We would pay less, guaranteed.

 

[VT4700]

Why would we have to pay someone more than Mooney if he left? We would play less, guaranteed.

So, you expect our coach to win here, but you don't want to pay him? Who do you expect to get for cheap? I could be wrong, but I think Grant, Miller, Rhoades, and Ford make more than Mooney. I think we would want to have a coach making at least what Mooney makes to try to keep up.

 

[VT4700]

Removing the emotion and sticking to 1 NCAA appearance in 11 years doesn’t support an extension in my mind. Very happy for the results this year,but one year doesn’t negate the 10 or so previous non appearances.

But, as an AD, you need to focus on the past few years, and whether you think the program is in good shape. Hardt made the decision to keep Mooney after the 2019 season, so he already considered all the years leading up to 2019. Since then, in 3 seasons, we had a 24-7 year and an A-10 tourney winning year with an NCAA win added on. So, if Hardt is deciding on an extension, why should he be concerned with 2019 and earlier when he already made a decision after 2019? If you decide to keep someone, and they do well, you don't go back and say, yes, but before your recent success.........

 

[Eight Legger]

So, you expect our coach to win here, but you don't want to pay him? Who do you expect to get for cheap? I could be wrong, but I think Grant, Miller, Rhoades, and Ford make more than Mooney. I think we would want to have a coach making at least what Mooney makes to try to keep up.

You think we are going to employ Mooney for two decades as our winningest coach ever and then as soon as he's gone pay the new guy more than he ever made?? Unless we hire Pitino or someone similar, it will never happen here. We will hire someone from a CAA type program who's making $350k a year and we'll give him $750k or $900k.

 

[VT4700]

You think we are going to employ Mooney for two decades as our winningest coach ever and then as soon as he's gone pay the new guy more than he ever made?? Unless we hire Pitino or someone similar, it will never happen here. We will hire someone from a CAA type program who's making $350k a year and we'll give him $750k or $900k.

I think all the real good coaches we would want would certainly expect Mooney money, which I believe would not even put them top 4 A-10 in pay. You really think a solid coach would be content making less than half of what Rhoades makes? Paying someone that would make me wonder about the hire. And, I said "at least what Mooney made". Why, in your next post do you turn that into my saying "pay the new guy more than he ever made"?

 

[Eight Legger]

I'm explaining what we will do, which can be much different than what we should do. Rhode Island is paying Miller a hell of a lot more than it paid Cox. Smart. But it paid Cox a lot less than it was paying Hurley. Our MO is not to replace a high-paid coach with a high-paid coach. It never has been. We traditionally hire lower-level coaches who can get a big pay bump by coming here but still need to prove something before making what the last guy made.

 

[MrTbone]

What Mooney is paid, would determine what we would pay, plus more, to hire a D-1 coach to replace Mooney.
From a business standpoint, and removing all of the emotions that you all generate on the board, it would be nuts at this time to consider anything but an extension of his contract.

This seems foundationally inaccurate. There are plenty of coaches who would take the job here for well under CMs annual pay. That’s just basic supply and demand.

if we hope to get someone with a similar pedigree then maybe your argument holds water but I think you’re bringing in a pretty well regarded coach at that level. Lots of up and comers who wouldn’t require $1.3M.