Conference realignment

Eight Legger

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Here we go again: the Big 12 has added Cincy, Houston, UCF and BYU. Temple now left in no-man's land. Would love to see them come back to the A10.
 

SFspidur

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Gonna be a lot of jockeying among AAC, Sun Belt, and C-USA. Kinda feels like that group should just blow it all up and regroup from scratch.
 
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97spiderfan

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Getting Temple back would be huge. Love to see us go after Wichita State as well. That would give SLU a natural geographic partner.
 

spiderman

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Getting Temple back would be huge. Love to see us go after Wichita State as well. That would give SLU a natural geographic partner.
can't just keep growing. at some point, Fordham needs to join the Patriot League. Maybe UMass want to upgrade their football. if two left then adding Wichita and Memphis would be sick. Belmont is probably a decent option too.
 

Ferrum Spider

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In todays era of streaming it really doesn't matter about being in a conference for TV contracts unless you're playing with the big boys. ODU and Temple would do fine as independents in football. Both could easily slide back into the A10 for all other sports. Hell if the A10 were creative enough, could be enough to form an FBS conference to appease those schools and stabilize the conference, be a poor mans new era big east. Would have to drop La Salle, maybe someone else and add a few other FT members like Buffalo, Marshall, Coastal, and Memphis and for FB only members Army, Navy, and UCONN gives you 9 teams just like that all in the footprint of the conference.

As for us, hard to believe we were once considered for Big East expansion back when they were looking for new members in the 90s and now we are just content with competing. Id love to think we would come out stronger post expansion, but I cant really say considering the state of the programs the last few years. I just hope the strength of the conference isnt compromised much once its all said and done. Hard to call the AAC attractive from a basketball perspective atm but they do have a history of adding basketball only schools which has me worried.
 

spiderman

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As for us, hard to believe we were once considered for Big East expansion back when they were looking for new members in the 90s and now we are just content with competing. Id love to think we would come out stronger post expansion, but I cant really say considering the state of the programs the last few years.
quality of the basketball program has very little to do with these realignments or Memphis would be in the Big 12 with their recent top rated hoops classes.

it's all about market size for the TV revenue. and football for the big conferences.

I agree Memphis isn't coming to the A10. Belmont is a more realistic western option.
 
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Eight Legger

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... Except that the Big East doesn't play football, so the quality of the program does matter. The market is important too, but if we'd been in the top 25 half of the past decade, we'd be in the conversation. Instead, we're not even an afterthought.
 
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spiderman

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I guess, if being strong meant we had a larger following. we're not only a small school in a small market, but we share it with a strong program. I just don't see a conference opting for a school our size if they have viable bigger options in bigger markets.
 
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I don't think anybody "drops" anybody, so as nice as it would be, Fordham and LaSalle ain't going anywhere other than on their own volition.
 
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Mo 2.0

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I think Temple feels that their football is a way bigger deal than it really is. I don't see them coming back to the A10 to the detriment of their football.
 
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urmite

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I don't think anybody "drops" anybody, so as nice as it would be, Fordham and LaSalle ain't going anywhere other than on their own volition.
The proven way to ”drop” teams is for the majority of teams to start a new conference and no one is doing that…
 

urmite

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I think Temple feels that their football is a way bigger deal than it really is. I don't see them coming back to the A10 to the detriment of their football.
They have never won a bowl game but went to 5 straight before the pandemic. Do any of these pay anything?

Maybe mediocre G5 seems important when you have been so bad for so long?
 

Spider B

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The problem for Temple, if they really feel like their football program is a big deal, is where do they go? Very limited options for football and their basketball program will become irrelevant whatever choice they make. They may be forced to focus on basketball.
 

SpiderTrap

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Remember when we thought UR should be in the new Big East? Those were the days.

In reality - A10 should be reaching to Temple and any other good mid-major basketball program. Like mentioned above - your either pro-active in conference realignments or re-active.

Aside from Temple - what is another school you think would be a good fit for A10?
 

Ferrum Spider

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quality of the basketball program has very little to do with these realignments or Memphis would be in the Big 12 with their recent top rated hoops classes.

it's all about market size for the TV revenue. and football for the big conferences.

I agree Memphis isn't coming to the A10. Belmont is a more realistic western option.
I'm not sure I was making any realistic options beyond Temple, ODU (and Belmont in previous threads) other than just having a little fun with the non-sense of continuous expansion. Generally speaking yes its about market size, tv revenue, etc at least for the big boys. But other variables come into play as well otherwise VT would of been left out of ACC expansion first go round (Market) , or Witchita St (Basketball) wouldn't be added to the AAC. Rutgers is probably the best example of just getting in because of a market.

There is a little contradiction that saying quality of basketball program has little to do with realignment, then cite a quality basketball only program that isn't known for any other sports to be added to the conference. Just depends on the conference and the partners willing to dance. Realistically, I would love Belmont added to give us more stability out west.
 

spiderman

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There is a little contradiction that saying quality of basketball program has little to do with realignment, then cite a quality basketball only program that isn't known for any other sports to be added to the conference. Just depends on the conference and the partners willing to dance. Realistically, I would love Belmont added to give us more stability out west.
market size probably matters more for the bigger school conferences with football, though still a factor for any conference.

despite Wichita State's success, not sure I see the A10 expanding that far west. that's way out there. very small market too. Belmont would make more sense in Nashville.
 

Ferrum Spider

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Really hope the A10 is being proactive rather than reactive to protect their interests. Its not impossible to see and alliance of JMU/ODU/VCU in the AAC.
 

Ferrum Spider

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how would VCU benefit from that move?
Guess it helps if I finish my entire thought saying Dayton and SLU going (Or to another conference) as another part of that equation. A10 wouldn't be as strong and in position of other schools being poached as well.

Imagine the AAC has a better TV contract than the A10. Aligns with larger state schools they have been in the conference before. New facility upgrades coming will allow their non revenue sports to excel and look attractive to other conferences.

I'm not saying the above is likely or bound to happen, but the A10 should absolutely be pushing to try and work something out with ODU/Temple while the AAC is hurting to prevent any future defections. We have seen far more head scratching moves from conferences and schools alike making moves you'd never think possible.

Expansion is all about being proactive and not being left behind. Have no doubt that our rivals and other conferences are assessing what is going on around them.
 
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Eight Legger

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Good points, Ferrum. I do think we're a bit buffered as a league because none of the top programs are going anywhere for football. Dayton, SLU, VCU, Davidson either don't play it or don't play it at a high level, so that limits how attractive they would be to most higher conferences.
 

urfan1

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Ferrrum good points, do you think the BE would break it's private school rule?
 

RichmondNative

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Ferrrum good points, do you think the BE would break it's private school rule?
Didn’t that already happen by its addition of UConn?

If I were Temple, I would be talking to Villanova about sponsoring me as an addition too. Temple is a natural fit as soon as it drops its football to FCS just like Villanova did back in the 1980s.
 

urfan1

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You're right, I had forgotten about them. I guess because they were a prior member and BE has not yet started hoops play. Do you think their prior record is what opened the door?
 

97spiderfan

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Temple is obvious, but I would think Witchita State would be just as high on the A-10 expansion list. They are one of the top mid major programs in the country, why wouldn't we want that? Georgraphy wise, yeah they are little farther west, but what is that an extra 30-45 minutes on a plane ride.

And if we want to protect our big boys from getting poached (VCU, St. Louis, Dayton), we need to add big time college basketball programs. Belmont isn't moving the needle if another conference comes calling. Add Temple and Witchita State though and suddenly the A-10 is back to being the best non-P6 conference in the country.
 
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Temple is obvious, but I would think Witchita State would be just as high on the A-10 expansion list. They are one of the top mid major programs in the country, why wouldn't we want that? Georgraphy wise, yeah they are little farther west, but what is that an extra 30-45 minutes on a plane ride.

And if we want to protect our big boys from getting poached (VCU, St. Louis, Dayton), we need to add big time college basketball programs. Belmont isn't moving the needle if another conference comes calling. Add Temple and Witchita State though and suddenly the A-10 is back to being the best non-P6 conference in the country.
Does Richmond and other A10 schools travel private generally (ie not just in a COVID world)? If so, would agree the extra distance doesn’t matter enough to be a deciding factor.

I think it’s clear that it’s to everybody’s benefit to be proactive and add 1 or 2 high quality teams as we are likely to lose a program during this realignment. Also may help to convince certain programs to stay.
 

spiderman

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the spread out geography of most conferences makes no sense to me, especially from a non-rev sports viewpoint. they should blow it all up and start from scratch.
 

97spiderfan

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the spread out geography of most conferences makes no sense to me, especially from a non-rev sports viewpoint. they should blow it all up and start from scratch.
No one cares about non-revenue sports. The dollars to operate all sports come from Football and Men's Basketball. The A-10 either protects its Men's Basketball product by getting as much high quality MBB programs or it will end up being poached by conferences that do.

I think the only party that would care about travel would be Witchita State, but since they were already in AAC, which has a bigger geographical footprint than the A-10, they've already made that decision that geography is not a top concern, particularly in relevance to their hoops program.
 

RichmondNative

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the spread out geography of most conferences makes no sense to me, especially from a non-rev sports viewpoint. they should blow it all up and start from scratch.
I agree and in the end this will happen in my opinion as soon as the NFL training ground teams pull out of the NCAA agreement. Then it will primarily be basketball that is the revenue sport (some FCS football money maybe) and the NCAA tournament is all about regional play and it would seem team would not need to travel all over the place for conference play. Maybe if teams didn’t spend so much money on travel, they could invest more in things that are actually going to make their teams better.

Of course, the flaw there is that the TV contracts are looking for as many eyeballs as possible, so the real power is having teams in the major population centers. This is why Wichita State makes no sense to me regardless of them fielding decent teams.