Spiders in 2010 - 7 seed, at large

[SpiderDogg]

I’ve thought a lot about the 2010 season and how it was our best regular season and only at large bid under Mooney. This comes with a asterisk because of the 2011 A10 tournament win, which would have been an at large year (I vividly remember Jay Bilas saying we were a lock to make the tournament the day after beating #24 Temple in the Semifinals that year). And in 2020 a win in the quarter finals may have been enough, and a semi final win should have done it.

Point is we’ve been in at large contention 3 times during Mooney’s tenure and only one year (2010) we were a lock regardless of slipping up in a quarter final game of the A10. Our main goal before and during each season needs to be getting into at large position before the conference tournament - as The A10 will stay a competitive league and you’ll likely draw a team that can beat you on any given night in the quarter finals.

We need to schedule like we did in 2010 and win enough of those games - that year is the blueprint. Would anyone be able to post our exact results from that year in a nice format here? I tried on my phone but it was a mess. Curious to see what our efficiency metrics looked like, did Kenpom exist? I know our RPI was awesome but how would our NET have looked? Thought it would be an interesting exercise.

 

[spider23]

Kenpom has us ranked 54th for 2010. A10 was ranked 7th conference overall, slightly ahead of the Mountain West.

 

[spiderman]

Our main goal before and during each season needs to be getting into at large position before the conference tournament.

how many non-P6 at-larges are there? very few.

as for a blueprint, I don't believe you can trick anyone into an at-large. you're either good enough or you're not. I can point to any schedule we've had incluiding this year's. if we win enough games, we'd get in.

 

[urfan1]

how many non-P6 at-larges are there? very few.

as for a blueprint, I don't believe you can trick anyone into an at-large. you're either good enough or you're not. I can point to any schedule we've had incluiding this year's. if we win enough games, we'd get in.

if you have a JMU year, you're in.

 

[Eight Legger]

The key is being able to play good teams on a neutral court in the OOC. Someone remind me of the rules there, you can only be in a tournament like that every other year or something?

 

[spiderman]

The key is being able to play good teams on a neutral court in the OOC. Someone remind me of the rules there, you can only be in a tournament like that every other year or something?

I think you can play in an MTE every year.
you can only play in a particular MTE once every 4 years, though.

 

[97spiderfan]

how many non-P6 at-larges are there? very few.

as for a blueprint, I don't believe you can trick anyone into an at-large. you're either good enough or you're not. I can point to any schedule we've had incluiding this year's. if we win enough games, we'd get in.

Yep, we beat Florida and Colorado this year, like we beat Mississippi State, Missouri, and Florida in 2010, we are getting an at large. Our OOC performance, not our schedule, killed us this year.

 

[GKiller]

if you have a JMU year, you're in.

No they were out if they lost quarters or semis in their league maybe even finals.

 

[GKiller]

how many non-P6 at-larges are there? very few.

as for a blueprint, I don't believe you can trick anyone into an at-large. you're either good enough or you're not. I can point to any schedule we've had incluiding this year's. if we win enough games, we'd get in.

I don’t get the schedule easy ooc crowd tho. Not saying that’s you. Show me a10 teams that ever get at larges with terrible ooc. To me hard is the way in for us. Of course u have to win at some good level but I think we have better shot at succeeding w hard schedule than going all season with like 4 losses total with a cake ooc.

 

[spider23]

Yep you have to aim to schedule absolute best games you can every year. I have seen it mentioned on here that we HAD to schedule down because of out roster. Doesn't make sense. Especially now in portal era you need to go hard on the schedule every year.

 

[VT4700]

No they were out if they lost quarters or semis in their league maybe even finals.

Yep, they finished 2nd in their conference in the regular season. No way were they even close to an at large.

 

[VT4700]

Yep you have to aim to schedule absolute best games you can every year. I have seen it mentioned on here that we HAD to schedule down because of out roster. Doesn't make sense. Especially now in portal era you need to go hard on the schedule every year.

We didn't schedule down. Our OOC schedule was very similar to pretty much every year. We just need to win more games. I don't think our OOC schedule has ever cost us an at large.

 

[GKiller]

We didn't schedule down. Our OOC schedule was very similar to pretty much every year. We just need to win more games. I don't think our OOC schedule has ever cost us an at large.

I do think we intentionally scheduled more automatic wins than normal. We had 6 ghastly ooc home games. 6 is too many for us. U can’t have that many 300+ games. Ppl will say well we didn’t know that bad I think we did for at least 5 of 6. The overall ooc sos was probably down as result but I don’t have those numbers.

Anyway it doesn’t matter what we think - too hard too easy - it only matters what UR’s favorite son and 2nd most important employee Joe Lunardi thinks!

 

[VT4700]

I do think we intentionally scheduled more automatic wins than normal. We had 6 ghastly ooc home games. 6 is too many for us. U can’t have that many 300+ games. Ppl will say well we didn’t know that bad I think we did for at least 5 of 6. The overall ooc sos was probably down as result but I don’t have those numbers.

Anyway it doesn’t matter what we think - too hard too easy - it only matters what UR’s favorite son and 2nd most important employee Joe Lunardi thinks!

Fair enough, G, and I didn't like having so many of those 300+ games on there either. But, whether they are 200 or 300, if you have enough quality games on there, which we did and do pretty much every year, you can put yourself in a good at large position by winning a few of them. Don't need to win all of them, just enough of them. If we beat either Florida or Colorado, beat UNI or Wichita, and beat BC ( a game we led by 14), no way would we have been left out after a 26-5 regular season. We just need to win more of the quality games we schedule.

 

[GKiller]

Well I agree VT4700 but the biggest key is a quad 1 scalp & u have to schedule harder to get more chances at those imo. The upside is too good. & remember u were the one who told me 14-4 in A10 without a Dayton win would be enough. Can’t let that go yet u just got back from hibernation.

 

[KE Spider]

We just need to win more of the quality games we schedule.

Men's LAX lament as well.

 

[VT4700]

Well I agree VT4700 but the biggest key is a quad 1 scalp & u have to schedule harder to get more chances at those imo. The upside is too good. & remember u were the one who told me 14-4 in A10 without a Dayton win would be enough. Can’t let that go yet u just got back from hibernation.

Well, I'm pretty sure I said "might" be enough, not 100% would. I wasn't factoring on 5 bid stealers the last weekend, and us losing in the 1st round. But, I was factoring on Dayton being like 18-0 or 17-1 and us being a solid 2nd place if we lost to them for us to still have a chance. So, I was not counting on 4 losses for Dayton and 15-3 for Loyola. But, I mentioned earlier ( u must have missed it) that you were probably right and it was likely a must win, especially the way the standings ended up.

 

[urfan1]

years ago 20 wins got you in the discussion, now its just a decent season, it seems 25 are needed to be in the discussion, unless you are P5.

 

[GKiller]

years ago 20 wins got you in the discussion, now its just a decent season, it seems 25 are needed to be in the discussion, unless you are P5.

Depends on your OOC strength & performance. I mean it would be nice for a10 to help more but we can’t count on that.

 

[VT4700]

years ago 20 wins got you in the discussion, now its just a decent season, it seems 25 are needed to be in the discussion, unless you are P5.

Shoot, just a few years ago pre stupid NET, we would have been a lock at 15-3, 23-8, a regular season A-10 title and lots of "good" top 100 wins.

 

[spiderman]

tough to get Q1 games. need to get into better MTE's. also need luck to have the conference to do better to get Q1's in conference.

as for the 300+ teams on the schedule, I never like those even in a down year. probably better off scheduling D3's (which I don't want either of course). but at least D3 games don't count in the formulas.

 

[GKiller]

tough to get Q1 games. need to get into better MTE's. also need luck to have the conference to do better to get Q1's in conference.

as for the 300+ teams on the schedule, I never like those even in a down year. probably better off scheduling D3's (which I don't want either of course). but at least D3 games don't count in the formulas.

MTEs r number 1 for sure. I’ve been banging on this for years. We’ve been in some decent ones but it’s normally 1-2 good games & taking on 1 or 2 dogs as campus games. Meanwhile peers get into the 3 game neutral site MTEs with 2-3 good games and 0 garbage games.

I don’t think we’ve ever been in 1 of those in 20 years. It’s so odd a 20 year connected coach can’t get 1 of them. Idk if Moon has some type of kickback going to his agent at Gazelle Group for being in their tourneys. It feels shady.

Think we should definitely consider power conf road buy games too.

 

[spider23]

Yep, that has been a complaint of mine - lack of scheduling. We do know that it is hard to schedule. We do hear how well Mooney is connected and liked in the coaching fraternity. Time to make some calls and use some of this pull. Stop being a self fullfilling prophecy that you can't schedule tough games. Just do it.

 

[VT4700]

I don't get the schedule talk on here. Our OOC schedules have been good. We just haven't won enough quality games.

 

[Section9.RowD]

I don't get the schedule talk on here. Our OOC schedules have been good. We just haven't won enough quality games.

Agreed ... we had more chances than virtually all A10 teams other than Dayton to get some key non conference wins - just sadly didn't happen - beyond everything else we have said about the NET I still wish they had the final 10 game approach matters more in the portal transfer age than Game 3 or 5 in November. (I realize as how things played out our final two reg season losses didn't make out final 10 games as good we had had hoped clearly)

 

[GKiller]

I don't get the schedule talk on here. Our OOC schedules have been good. We just haven't won enough quality games.

Some of us want stronger ooc & see the higher upside.

Also u know hoops I think you’d even agree there is big room for improvement in the MTEs and kinda crazy we’ve never been in the real good ones in 20 years. If not maybe u r still in hibernation.

 

[urmite]

Per KenPom…
This season 272
Last 243

Next 2
94
54

Partly it might be mismatched with how our and opponents teams performed. Not always easy to determine ahead of time.

Also May be the worst teams on the schedule being a bit worse…

 

[VT4700]

Some of us want stronger ooc & see the higher upside.

Also u know hoops I think you’d even agree there is big room for improvement in the MTEs and kinda crazy we’ve never been in the real good ones in 20 years. If not maybe u r still in hibernation.

Our tournament was fine this year. Just beat Colorado. Win that tourney and that gets you attention. But, even with that loss, beat Florida. Or, take care of BC, UNI and Wichita. I want to see a schedule that is large worthy if we win enough, and pretty much every year has provided that.

 

[97spiderfan]

tough to get Q1 games. need to get into better MTE's. also need luck to have the conference to do better to get Q1's in conference.

as for the 300+ teams on the schedule, I never like those even in a down year. probably better off scheduling D3's (which I don't want either of course). but at least D3 games don't count in the formulas.

D3's don't count in the NET but I think the committee sees them as a black mark. I think our MTE is fine. What wasn't fine was not winning it, if you want to be an at large contender. Now, can we all agree to remove William and Mary from our schedule permanently.

 

[spiderman]

Now, can we all agree to remove William and Mary from our schedule permanently.

with new coach and if they ever finish the improvements they planned for their facilities, I expect W&M will be a good CAA team.

1-28 VMI will probably never be a good game.
I think we got a little unlucky with how bad Siena and Buffalo were this year.

 

[VT4700]

And Mooney and Earl know each other real well. My guess is the series with the Tribe will continue.

 

[GKiller]

Our tournament was fine this year. Just beat Colorado. Win that tourney and that gets you attention. But, even with that loss, beat Florida. Or, take care of BC, UNI and Wichita. I want to see a schedule that is large worthy if we win enough, and pretty much every year has provided that.

I don’t want to settle for fine. That sounds like AD dept line. Also i don’t think a FLA or CU win flips us to at large. Would have helped but our #s still poor and ooc contributed to that. We still got dog walked by Goo Moos in game we didn’t care much about imo.

Colorado game from mte was good. Siena came with it. Again I’d love just once to get 3 shots neutral vs teams with little prep against us. 3 vs 1 is lot better right? The mte’s can be ok but nice to make it a strength & has to be to get more major games these days. Maybe u don’t want the good 3 game neutral ones idk but I’d find that odd. Do u think Mooney in 20 years just can’t get them or doesn’t want to?

 

[GKiller]

And Mooney and Earl know each other real well. My guess is the series with the Tribe will continue.

Agree here. There r at least 2 years of H&H left anyway. And with Mooney & Earl being buddies expect it to continue after that.

 

[urmite]

D3's don't count in the NET but I think the committee sees them as a black mark. I think our MTE is fine. What wasn't fine was not winning it, if you want to be an at large contender. Now, can we all agree to remove William and Mary from our schedule permanently.

Ok, so you want to replace it with a permanent H&H with Lafayette?