2024–25 schedule
- Thread starter SFspidur
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WTF mode struck at noon.
WTF is happening? Are we like a 3rd rate political organization that plans to dump our D- schedule on the Friday before Labor Day? I know we'll just get new fans bc that was a logical line of thought then, so must be the same now but it would be nice to have a schedule to look at and plan out any games to travel for. As of now, I'm salivating over a trip to Lewisburg, PA, maybe I'll take a tour of the federal penitentiary before the game, sounds like THE thing to do. As for secondary plans on that trip, I can't decide between touring local Kratzerville, Mifflinburg or the town of Dice, PA. I may just have to binge all three. Can I see everything all in a day? Anybody done this trifecta? (what am I saying, I'm prob only one here NOT to have done it.)
Recent Graham video clips are probably a foreshadowing of all the PT he'll get when we're up 40 for the 11th straight game.
13-0 or bust at this point with no info on any decent games.
This program makes for an exasperating follow sometimes.
WTF is happening? Are we like a 3rd rate political organization that plans to dump our D- schedule on the Friday before Labor Day? I know we'll just get new fans bc that was a logical line of thought then, so must be the same now but it would be nice to have a schedule to look at and plan out any games to travel for. As of now, I'm salivating over a trip to Lewisburg, PA, maybe I'll take a tour of the federal penitentiary before the game, sounds like THE thing to do. As for secondary plans on that trip, I can't decide between touring local Kratzerville, Mifflinburg or the town of Dice, PA. I may just have to binge all three. Can I see everything all in a day? Anybody done this trifecta? (what am I saying, I'm prob only one here NOT to have done it.)
Recent Graham video clips are probably a foreshadowing of all the PT he'll get when we're up 40 for the 11th straight game.
13-0 or bust at this point with no info on any decent games.
This program makes for an exasperating follow sometimes.
if anyone wants to insert the .gif of the General from War Games taking us to DEFCON 1, feel free to do so.
I feel like the thinking at our level used to be to try to force a high major to give you a return game. if they wouldn't, then screw them. they'll have to fill their schedule with low majors. high majors didn't really want to play other high majors in the OOC. they play enough in conference.
but now, high majors are fine not playing our level. they'll take the lower level buy games and sprinkle in some high major neutral court games.
it's tough to get a high major game even on the road now. you really have to get in a good MTE these days.
but now, high majors are fine not playing our level. they'll take the lower level buy games and sprinkle in some high major neutral court games.
it's tough to get a high major game even on the road now. you really have to get in a good MTE these days.
Whew!! When I started reading that, I thought you were ready to say they have been added to our schedule.
There is truth there sman. certainly it’s not as easy as the lower levels securing. But we know there r some H&H’s out there, tho scarce, & we know there has to be way way more road games out there at least.
But to your point the old way was don’t give in. Hold out for return. But the bigs adapted and said we’ll just do more against each other. So a big part imo is most of the high mids just aren’t used to agreeing to these games. They didn’t want to…or still don’t. Now they need to Adapt. It gets a little easier when u decide u want to.
The other thing tho is continually revising the bs Net. It incentivizes blowouts. Even tho I think they took out scoring margin it’s still there with efficiencies. Maybe efficiency has to be capped once a margin is reached. Also it takes in quality of opponent but I’m sure not enough. Right now the bigs r ok with the low risk blowout instead of the quality of opponent at home & a good system shouldn’t reward that. So there is a math/engineering problem that hurts the higher mids. A good system shouldn’t also reward playing a d2 or d3 team either.
Regardless nobody cares if it’s not easy. Ditch digging ain’t easy. Pimpin ain’t easy. Especially when u act like you’ve built “one of the top basketball programs in the nation”
This is my point. Dayton did it. St. Mary's gets games. SDSU gets games. Notice, I don't even mention Gonzaga anymore. And I agree it is hard. But others do it. I think you are correct - you have to adapt.
St. Mary's rarely has a non MTE power team on their schedule. I think Utah this past season was their first in a few years. SDSU does better, but I only see Stanford and BYU ( became a power team last year) as non MTE games the past couple of years. Seems like west teams have it a little easier because there just aren't as many teams out there. The Pac used to play lots of home and homes with mid majors out west, but I doubt they would have come east for many.
I think we need to accept that the A-10 does not have as good of a reputation as it used to. Dayton does have a good reputation. We need to keep winning and get to their level from a reputation standpoint.
The way the NET works and with power conference teams doing so few home and homes with mid majors, it is time to just agree to having some road games against power teams.
If we get in a good MTE (I know this year is unlikely), agree to maybe 2 road games against power teams, and fill the rest of the schedule with mid major home and homes and a few buy game cupcakes, that would be a solid schedule. So, we don't need to go play a crazy, road heavy, top 10 OOC schedule...the only new thing would be just find 2 road only games against power teams that we probably have not pursued in the past.
This is why we have a 18 year old head coach leading our program. Right? To respond to changes in the landscape quickly, to have deep relationship across the landscape of college basketball, to best position our program for success at the highest levels.
2 road only games against power conference teams.
4 home and home games with mid majors ( 1 road and 1 home each year).
2 or 3 game MTE.
4 home cupcakes ( try to avoid the 300+ games).
* If we have a 2 game MTE and need 1 more game, find a mid major.
* we could change this to 1 road only game and 5 mid major home and homes, and still have a real good schedule if we are in a good MTE.
There are plenty of quality mid majors from maybe a lesser conference ( but not much lesser) that we could have good home and homes with.
4 home and home games with mid majors ( 1 road and 1 home each year).
2 or 3 game MTE.
4 home cupcakes ( try to avoid the 300+ games).
* If we have a 2 game MTE and need 1 more game, find a mid major.
* we could change this to 1 road only game and 5 mid major home and homes, and still have a real good schedule if we are in a good MTE.
There are plenty of quality mid majors from maybe a lesser conference ( but not much lesser) that we could have good home and homes with.
VT, the issue I see with your schedule which is similar to ours from previous years, is that those road games vs mid majors are tough, with limited upside, and if they stumble early in their own OOC, they basically can't improve bc of their conference.
We are in a very similar scenario as the high majors, whether we like it or not, which is we don't want to go on the road in a tough environment and lose to a team that may not be an acceptable loss come selection time. I would actually rather play a high major on the road instead. Play 5 major teams and UR prob gets 1-2 wins each year on average. 2 wins keeps you in conversations, 3 wins positions you well and 4+ wins is a season where you just don't mess up in A10 and you're in.
Also, I feel like more of these games lessens the pressure of the individual P5 games. Last year, we lost at BC and that put a ton of pressure on CU and UF games. Lost a very close one to CU and UF was just too tough. But add in 2 more? I bet we snag one of them and the other maybe the coin flip goes our way. That's better than hoping Wichita isn't a dog or flying to middle of nowhere Iowa for a game. Those games were the actual killers last season. You can't risk that UNI doesn't gel early in the year like last season. I don't think they were that bad, they just didn't gel until basically the game vs UR, and then they wouldn't get any conference bump like a major would, to improve the immediate eye test of the loss. But for UNI at (I think) 1-5 coming in vs us? That game was basically win or die for us, it was zero upside. I don't want an all in game on the road vs a desperate mid major in December. To me that game is the actual killer.
We always tout Moon's record vs P5 teams in game notes - it's solid! - and I think we could expect a similar winning % yearly in those games. In "up" seasons, even more. And sometimes lightning will strike in Kansas and you can live off that game all the way to the tourney.
We are in a very similar scenario as the high majors, whether we like it or not, which is we don't want to go on the road in a tough environment and lose to a team that may not be an acceptable loss come selection time. I would actually rather play a high major on the road instead. Play 5 major teams and UR prob gets 1-2 wins each year on average. 2 wins keeps you in conversations, 3 wins positions you well and 4+ wins is a season where you just don't mess up in A10 and you're in.
Also, I feel like more of these games lessens the pressure of the individual P5 games. Last year, we lost at BC and that put a ton of pressure on CU and UF games. Lost a very close one to CU and UF was just too tough. But add in 2 more? I bet we snag one of them and the other maybe the coin flip goes our way. That's better than hoping Wichita isn't a dog or flying to middle of nowhere Iowa for a game. Those games were the actual killers last season. You can't risk that UNI doesn't gel early in the year like last season. I don't think they were that bad, they just didn't gel until basically the game vs UR, and then they wouldn't get any conference bump like a major would, to improve the immediate eye test of the loss. But for UNI at (I think) 1-5 coming in vs us? That game was basically win or die for us, it was zero upside. I don't want an all in game on the road vs a desperate mid major in December. To me that game is the actual killer.
We always tout Moon's record vs P5 teams in game notes - it's solid! - and I think we could expect a similar winning % yearly in those games. In "up" seasons, even more. And sometimes lightning will strike in Kansas and you can live off that game all the way to the tourney.
assuming we're willing to play high majors in a road only game, I'm guessing they just don't want to play us. they obviously have hundreds of teams willing to play them in a given year and only a few mid-major slots to fill so maybe it's just a numbers game.
beating good mid majors on the road (in a home and home series) isn't easy, but I still love those games. especially ones geographically compatible so we get some representation in the stands. easy examples include JMU, High Point, Charleston, Furman, Wofford, Temple, Princeton etc ...
beating good mid majors on the road (in a home and home series) isn't easy, but I still love those games. especially ones geographically compatible so we get some representation in the stands. easy examples include JMU, High Point, Charleston, Furman, Wofford, Temple, Princeton etc ...
btw ... I'm not expecting the full schedule release for another month, but we're overdue for a nugget this week from our "not a secret" OOC schedule.
sman, I think one of the key arguments is to stop thinking of UR as a mid major, for scheduling and overall (even if just internally as a program.) Schedule lots of p5 teams and inflate the SOS. Have a good run of years OOC and maybe make NCAAs 3 out of 4/5 years and UR is now a game no one has to worry about losing and being an anchor game. The A10 may be down from its peak years, but it's still not the WCC or the MVC in my opinion. I'd schedule P5 games wherever/whenever, at least 5 winnable home games, and a MTE. I feel like 10-3 or better sets you up, even 9-4 most years can be worked around. Dayton had this schedule last year.
Start with a good/great MTE. Gazelle Group steps up or UR finds another way. 20 years in, the reliance on the coach's agent to get us MTE games seems past its prime as far as need.
Start with a good/great MTE. Gazelle Group steps up or UR finds another way. 20 years in, the reliance on the coach's agent to get us MTE games seems past its prime as far as need.
I don't think anyone worries about us being an anchor. withour checking NETs or RPIs, we had 2 bad seasons in the last 17 years, and in one of those we were still 9-9 in conference. so I don't think teams are avoiding us for that reason.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
Approaching 72 hours since BB sounded the DEFCON 1 alarm.
Sure would be nice to have the AD throw us a bone and announce one of these games that have supposedly been scheduled in secret. We are starving out here!
Yes! what I've also been touting. I don't think our record on road vs. P5 would be much less than on the road to good mid majors. But the upside is exponentially better. risk/reward. If the risk is losing, ok u give up a little, but the reward is so much better who cares. & we'll still have a couple of those H&H mids too, but minimize. W&M we "should" win that game at high rate, but the UNI, Wichita, Hoftras, Charlottes, Charlestons etc. are tough. 5 of those? No thanks. Trade 3 for 3 road buy games at P5. If we had some really good 3 game neutral MTE u can adjust a bit but we never play those. We know what 20 years of our current schedule model has got us - not much - do something different and see what if that improves your odds.
perhaps a bit of hyperbole in there, but you get the idea. They don't want to play us because playing a team that is 80 in the NET carries real risk of a loss, but doesn't provide a great or even very good win that moves the needle. In a vacuum, you look at the schedule and just say "you're supposed to win that game to be in." It's a pressure game for no reason. Whereas if we are 40 in the NET bc we played a great OOC, you can schedule us and a loss doesn't haunt you and stand out on your resume AND a win is something that actually adds to your team sheet in March.
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I've been to a good amount of road/neutral Spiders games over the years, I don't know your definition of good representation, but we won't get it at those games. especially south. there have been some exceptions (but those are usually A10 tourneys not counting Brooklyn - DC for sure, AC and Pittsburgh were pretty good. @ GW I think many years had solid ones) we'd getter better turnouts at bigger p5 games imo. where did we get these really good ooc turnouts who has examples? no worries, I just don't see that as reason why in any way.
I do think its presumptous to say we can't get them. epecially if we aren't trying to get them, which is more likely. I don't dismiss entirely but I'd like to hear Mooney say we flat out can't get road buy games. heck we have may a couple of those road P5 buy games yet on schedule this year idk.
I shouldn't do this, but you guys have suffered long enough, so I'm leaking our OOC schedule:
at Howard University
at University of West Georgia
at University of Minnesota-St. Thomas
vs. Southern Indiana University
at Penn State University - Harrisburg
vs. Kutztown University
at University of Hawaii at Manoa
vs. US Merchant Marine Academy
vs. Southern University & A&M College
at Binghamton University holiday classic vs. Bethune-Cookman University
vs. Binghamton-Abilene Christian winner or loser
vs. Marantha Baptist University
at SUNY Maritime College
at Howard University
at University of West Georgia
at University of Minnesota-St. Thomas
vs. Southern Indiana University
at Penn State University - Harrisburg
vs. Kutztown University
at University of Hawaii at Manoa
vs. US Merchant Marine Academy
vs. Southern University & A&M College
at Binghamton University holiday classic vs. Bethune-Cookman University
vs. Binghamton-Abilene Christian winner or loser
vs. Marantha Baptist University
at SUNY Maritime College
We aren't and we shouldn't play fewer than 6 home games. I already have 4 cupcakes on the schedule. I had an MTE, 2 true road games against power teams, and 4 non cupcake mid majors and that's not good enough? So, you say just play away at a power rather than have a home and home with a mid major, but that would take away home games, and maybe leave us with as few as 3 or 4 some years. So, you say forget the mid majors, just play @ 6 power teams, an MTE, and have 4 cupcakes? That's just not smart, not realistic, and not gonna happen.
That is just not a good schedule. Only 5 home games, all cupcakes? What season ticket holder would look at that and be excited? 5 or 6 road games @ a power team along with an MTE? And, then you say, 10-3 or 9-4 would work like of course we should always win at least half of our road games against power teams. Even though with the portal, we will probably be breaking in a lot of new players every year. Well, most majors out there wouldn't go 4-4 away from home against power teams. And, some years quality mid majors are every bit as good as a major, even with their NET ranking, so there is no reason to not play home and homes with them to give us 6 or 7 home games with at least a decent opponent or two on their for our fans to go see in November and December.
Don't sleep on Kutztown. Tough game there. Luckily - we get them at home.
Some of u like to say we should think higher with big goals and stop being poor little Richmond. Yet, you then turn around and say play a schedule different from nearly everyone else, which is like a Monmouth schedule. So, congrats on making Richmond more like Monmouth.
exactly. the new formula is to play top 50 teams and kill bottom 150 teams.
which is why I don't think high majors are taking Mooney's call, even if we're not demanding a return game.
just my opinion. you seem to take it personally, don't it's just an opinion. I think we don't win enough against the schedule we have been running out for years. It certainly affects our positioning after the OOC. If that schedule was tougher, maybe we'd get the same # of wins and be in better shape - and yes, I do think we'd still win a similar amount on average. I don't think I said we'd go 4-4 every year, feel free to quote me if I did.
Sure I'd like home games too, but not like last year we loaded up great games to excite the fan base. We had some of the worst teams in D1 come visit last year. Were these 2 extra cupcake games worth it?
VMI
Siena
Queens
W&M
Charlotte
Buffalo
Lafayette
our problem was the losses, not the schedule.
we lost to BC, Colorado, Wichita St, Northern Iowa and Florida. that's who we were in the OOC. and playing tougher games wasn't going to change who we were.
it certainly came together in conference. we need to be ready out of the gate this year, no matter who we play.
we lost to BC, Colorado, Wichita St, Northern Iowa and Florida. that's who we were in the OOC. and playing tougher games wasn't going to change who we were.
it certainly came together in conference. we need to be ready out of the gate this year, no matter who we play.
sman, that's part of my point - that UR seems to regularly lose just enough in OOC to damage our at large chances before the conference schedule. I do think that we could win a comparable number of games OOC against a better schedule, which doesn't have the same effect of scuttling the at large prospects. If we can win the same amount OOC but improve our prospects bc of the harder schedule, I'm for it. Or we can keep saying we need to win more and hope that patterns that seem pretty well establish somehow reverse themselves.
And I'm actually not saying that playing at UNI on a midweek night is easier than playing at Cincinnati on a Wednesday night - I'm saying that one has little upside and lots of downside and the other has the reverse. As Gkiller said earlier in this thread, we are prob one of UNI's better home games, whereas maybe we sneak up on Cincy.
We have to game the system. Our results just have never been 12-1 against any schedule but we do win fairly consistently OOC. So my opinion is play the best schedule you can if your results aren't ever spiking. I think we'd still win consistently and still have at large hopes even at 9-4.
The current method had UR nowhere near a bid last year even if finishing 16-2 in the A10, which is insane. And I don't know if beating WSU and UNI would have changed that. I'm not a fan of having to run the A10 table.
And I'm actually not saying that playing at UNI on a midweek night is easier than playing at Cincinnati on a Wednesday night - I'm saying that one has little upside and lots of downside and the other has the reverse. As Gkiller said earlier in this thread, we are prob one of UNI's better home games, whereas maybe we sneak up on Cincy.
We have to game the system. Our results just have never been 12-1 against any schedule but we do win fairly consistently OOC. So my opinion is play the best schedule you can if your results aren't ever spiking. I think we'd still win consistently and still have at large hopes even at 9-4.
The current method had UR nowhere near a bid last year even if finishing 16-2 in the A10, which is insane. And I don't know if beating WSU and UNI would have changed that. I'm not a fan of having to run the A10 table.
so that means we'll have exactly ZERO p5 games on the schedule this season? Unless we get into a MTE with P5s which looks like no chance if the reporting to date is accurate. No road games, no stand alone single neutral games, of course no home games. Awesome.
You keep saying 4-4 away from home against majors. We have lost our last 7 games away from home against power teams. We are 7-18 the last 10 years away from home against power teams. We are 3-8 in true road games against power teams the past 10 years:
Losses were to BC twice, WV, Bama, Georgetown, Wake, Texas Tech, NC St.
Wins: Vandy, Ky, Wake.
Why? Because winning on the road is hard. It's not just us. Most power teams do not go .500 against power teams on the road like you keep saying we might do. Kansas won 3 road games all year last season. 3!!!
Losses were to BC twice, WV, Bama, Georgetown, Wake, Texas Tech, NC St.
Wins: Vandy, Ky, Wake.
Why? Because winning on the road is hard. It's not just us. Most power teams do not go .500 against power teams on the road like you keep saying we might do. Kansas won 3 road games all year last season. 3!!!
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