Updated my post. UConn rebounded worse than us on defense in 2014 and won the national championship.
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Updated my post. UConn rebounded worse than us on defense in 2014 and won the national championship.
Nancy Lieberman as Associate Athletics Director for Men's and Women's Basketball. Then Schafer and Mooney can both benefit.
Marley, thanks for having me do this research. It is actually pretty interesting. On defense we have rebounded better this year than 5 of the last 7 D1 national champions did in their championship years. No national champion in the last 7 years has been a top 100 team in terms of defensive rebounding, which frankly surprised me. Many of these teams were in the 200-300 range in terms of defensive rebounding. This really drives home the point that there are much more important aspects to defense.
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Team Defensive Rebounding %
Duke (2015) 69.8
Kentucky (2012) 69.2
Richmond (2016) 68.3
UNC (2009) 68.3
Duke (2010) 67.9
UConn (2014) 67.2
Louisville (2013) 66.7
UConn (2011) 66.5Right, excelling at defensive rebounding is not essential to be a good team. There are other more important parts of defense that have a bigger impact on your team's success. Glad you finally see the light.
I really, really, really hate to admit that you and your effing stats are right, but I have to admit you win this time. Still would prefer a team that out rebounds their opponents.
In 2014 UConn was 209th in the country in offensive rebounding. Other than that they were all good at offensive rebounding.
Dark Tower series. I hear they are making it into a movie, I don't know what to expect.
Dark Tower series is the greatest reading for my age group. Don't know how it can be translated into a movie or mini- series . Although Mattew Mcgonnwyreallu
Really want to hate you and your stats but if you know about the "Dark Tower" and Dougas Adams then I can't say shit.
Watched Vampire Diaries for the first few years. Gave it up to follow the sacred words of the "K". Don't know which is worse.
I think something is wrong that nothing has to do with basketball. I sometimes give Coach the words but I think he is a good man.
They also were observant and made commentary about our glaring weaknesses.
Couple thing looked awful on TV last night
1) There was one series where GMU must have gotten 4 offensive rebounds before finally scoring. Maybe it was 5 rebounds?
2) There was another play when GMU player drove to the goal. Absolutely no one came over to attempt to stop him...our guys just let him shoot. Of course, we've seen that a bunch this year.
The year 2011 seems a long time ago. Got any projections when the next NCAA bid for us will be?
What I have seen is no one wants to step in front of a driving player to take a charge.
Have the players been playing afraid to take on fouls?
I still can't fathom the bad defense other than we've always had a shot blocker of some sort and have had guys who were willing to step in front and take a charge.
Have the players been playing afraid to take on fouls?
I still can't fathom the bad defense other than we've always had a shot blocker of some sort and have had guys who were willing to step in front and take a charge.
The lack of effort on defense and in rebounding is really hard to watch, and pretty maddening. I've never seen anything like it. Are we tanking games on purpose? I watched that ESPN documentary about the Boston College point shaving scandal of many years ago, and those guys who were getting paid by the mob were giving better effort than we do.
In my opinion, ability is as much a problem as desire on defense. Khwan is the only guy on our team that's athletic enough to stay in front of an A10 caliber guard.
Mo, think you are right. Save for last night, it has appeared that our guys were trying. Fact is while we now have scorers, the same guys have slow feet. Have heard that Nick, Monte and Grant are good defenders; so, am looking forward to NEXT year. OSC
There must b something elso to that stat. Great teams are not consistently giving up second chance points
Lol! Hopefully not, cause you're a very smart young man but with no disrespect intended, you need your sight to experience the watching of many more games to get a better perspective on the stats you look up.
There certainly is a lot more to it, but would anyone on this board actually care if I went into the details? I suspect I would just get berated with insults and tenuous arguments based on wild speculation about why the stats are wrong.
Stats are stats, but I think some people have trouble taking them seriously when you compare our lack of rebounding favorably with numerous national champions. Obviously we are far worse in many aspects of the game than even an average team, so I think you lose people by suggesting that stats show we are great in many ways. The bottom line is that we are not a good team, no matter what the stats suggest.
The three times that I dispute the quoting of statistics are when:
Someone claims human behavior on a day to day basis is as predictable as mathematics.
Someone claims sample size is irrelevant.
Someone claims each single variable can be changed in isolation.
Someone claims human behavior on a day to day basis is as predictable as mathematics.
Someone claims sample size is irrelevant.
Someone claims each single variable can be changed in isolation.
Rebounding more is always better than rebounding less. However there are much more important aspects to defense than rebounding as shown by the fact that many of the recent national champions were not good defensive rebounding teams. They all did other things on defense really well, especially the most important part of defense: PREVENTING FIELD GOALS!
Every national champion over the past 10 years has been in the top 70 in eFG% defense. 7 of the 10 were top 20 in eFG% defense. This is by far the most important aspect of defense. The better your eFG% defense is the less every offensive rebound is worth! Teams with good eFG% defense are less affected by giving up offensive rebounds since those rebounds are less likely to turn into second chance points.
In 2010 and 2011 we had top 20 eFG% defense but were 200-300 in terms of defensive rebounding percentage. The reason our defenses were still great those years despite giving up tons of offensive rebounds was because those rebounds did not often turn into second chance points (due to our elite eFG% defense). The past two years our defense has been pretty good due to our eFG% defense being 36th and 59th in the country. Again in these years we were not good at preventing offensive rebounds, but when other teams did get offensive rebounds they had trouble turning them into points.
This year our eFG% defense is 238th in the country. That means we are one of the worst teams in the country at preventing the ball from going into the basket on any given shot. That also means that when a team gets an offensive rebound against us it is extremely likely to end up getting them second chance points. Even though our defensive rebounding is the best it has ever been, and is better than 5 of the 7 last national champions, offensive rebounds pulled down by our opponents are WORTHA LOT MORE against us this year than they were against our good defenses and than they were against the championship teams. Even though we are letting opponents get less offensive rebounds we are giving up a lot more second chance points.
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Lose to JMU by 12, a 22-3 deficit with 2nd chance points. FLA loss by 20 and 23-6 2nd chance deficit. TTech wins 15 and 16-6 advantage with 2nd chance points. And of course the GMason debacle.
Possibly the bad defense would have been an non-issue if the defensive rebounding wasn't poor. No additional shots to defend meaning less points scored by your opponent. And we beat Cal by 4 and had an 7 point advantage with 2nd chance points.
Possibly the bad defense would have been an non-issue if the defensive rebounding wasn't poor. No additional shots to defend meaning less points scored by your opponent. And we beat Cal by 4 and had an 7 point advantage with 2nd chance points.
Offensive rebounds are necessary but not sufficient for second chance points. You get points when you put the ball in the hoop, not when you pull down the rebound. Good defensive teams can prevent second chance points even while giving up offensive rebounds. This is what we did in the past, and what the national championship teams tended to do (have very good eFG% defense). This year we have horrible eFG% defense, so every offensive rebound pulled down by our opponent's is very likely to become second chance points. Please read my post above, I believe I explained it pretty well there.
The eye test would tell me that the reason we have horrible eFG% this year is that we a) have no big guys down low to prevent putbacks and b) none of our guys are active in the post defensively. I don't know if you have any stats that identify what happened after we allowed an offensive rebound, but I suspect that the shots our opponents are taking this year after they get an offensive rebound are much closer to the basket than in 2011 or other years where our eFG% was so much better.
Fan2011, how do we put a numerical value on the constant disappointment of playing good defense for 28 seconds and the other team throwing up a brick and getting the rebound time after time. It kills the 7000 fans in the building, so it must take its toll on the players by the last 10 minutes of the game that we always falter.
We have both mentioned before the confidence and comfort this gives the opposing offense that if they miss they will get the rebound. It makes shooters so much more relaxed when they most likely will get the stick back. You know our opponents call playing UR the "Great Spider Turkey Shoot". It was amazing the amount of 3's we saw go in against us.
We have both mentioned before the confidence and comfort this gives the opposing offense that if they miss they will get the rebound. It makes shooters so much more relaxed when they most likely will get the stick back. You know our opponents call playing UR the "Great Spider Turkey Shoot". It was amazing the amount of 3's we saw go in against us.
Let's put a team ranking next to each team for that particular year along with offensive rebounding ranking.
DR-OR
Duke 125-32
Kentucky 113-21
Richmond 271-329
UNC 121-21
Duke 149-7
UConn 244-209
Louisville 242-16
UConn 236-7
Funny how ranking wise UR is last in both stats. Sometimes comparing team stats in different years doesn't tell the whole story. UConn in 2014 is the only team close to UR. Some quality OR teams there making up for the DR woes. Something the Spiders can't hang their hat on.
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