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One time transfer rule

UR80sfan

UR80sfan

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Jan 28, 2018
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This rule is devastating to mid-major programs and is going to further divide the major conferences from the mid-majors. It will have some aspects of turning mid-majors into minor league programs and make it considerable harder for mid-majors to make the NCAA conference that don't get an automatic bid.

I personally think it is better to have a top 50 ranked team consistently than play in a terrible conference and make the NCAA tournament by winning conference tournament.

Very disappointed, but it is what it is.

richmond.com

NCAA transfer change may bring 'wild, wild west' to midlevel schools, such as UR

The NCAA Division I Council this week postponed a vote on a rule change that will permit transfers to play without sitting out a year. That one-time allowance is coming,
richmond.com richmond.com
 
All this does is enable petulant children. Students learn by growth, not by quitting. About 99% of student athletes do not play professional sports. JMHO.
 
First the VCU game gets postponed, now this. My coffee tastes like piss. Anyone have good news to share?
 
I get that kids want to play, but I've never seen the sit out period as a penalty. it's time to get acclimated to a new school, a new team, a new coach, a new system. plus you get ahead of you studies or eventually start on a masters.
the extra year of free college education is a bonus.
 
spiderman said:
I get that kids want to play, but I've never seen the sit out period as a penalty. it's time to get acclimated to a new school, a new team, a new coach, a new system. plus you get ahead of you studies or eventually start on a masters.
the extra year of free college education is a bonus.
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It wasn't so much a penalty on the kid, but on the receiving school.
Now they won't need to burn a roster spot on a kid they can't play. Also, like you said, now they won't need to provide an extra free year of college.
 
that makes sense. the way I'm reading all this is that the rule change will supposedly benefit the kids. like you, I think it's a benefit to the school.
 
Its a penalty for kids moving up in conference and having pro aspirations or even just NCAA tourney aspirations. This rule will crush the mid-majors, but if you have not realized by now - the NCAA is all about making money. And just like pro teams now form super teams, this will now have the chance to occur in college.
There will be a trickle down effect of course. Sure - a school like UR or other A10 programs might lose a good player to a P5 program, but then this opens up the opportunity for UR and other A10 programs to cherry pick off lower D1 schools or even D2 programs where the leap might be too much. Remember TJ Cline - 20 minutes a game, 8 points as a frosh at Niagara. Prob not enough there to draw interest from a P5 program, but enough to move up to the A10 for sure.
This is free agency for college. And before you say these kids are student-athletes, and here for an education - throw that out the window. Big time college basketball and football are just a minor league system for the pros.
 
Yes, I had considered that 5 All-Americans could get together and decide to form a super-team. They'd need to find a school that had room, like all of their starters graduating or.....


.....hey, WAIT a minute.....! ;)
 
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SpiderTrap said:
Its a penalty for kids moving up in conference and having pro aspirations or even just NCAA tourney aspirations. This rule will crush the mid-majors, but if you have not realized by now - the NCAA is all about making money. And just like pro teams now form super teams, this will now have the chance to occur in college.
There will be a trickle down effect of course. Sure - a school like UR or other A10 programs might lose a good player to a P5 program, but then this opens up the opportunity for UR and other A10 programs to cherry pick off lower D1 schools or even D2 programs where the leap might be too much. Remember TJ Cline - 20 minutes a game, 8 points as a frosh at Niagara. Prob not enough there to draw interest from a P5 program, but enough to move up to the A10 for sure.
This is free agency for college. And before you say these kids are student-athletes, and here for an education - throw that out the window. Big time college basketball and football are just a minor league system for the pros.
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Also can work the other way for the kids that go P5 and never see the floor. Henry Coleman?
 
spiderman said:
that makes sense. the way I'm reading all this is that the rule change will supposedly benefit the kids. like you, I think it's a benefit to the school.
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Yes, it's definitely a benefit to the school, especially the power schools. But, of course the NCAA does not want to admit that, and would rather act like they're all in it for the kids.
 
On the bright side: Think of all the studs WE can now land immediately from places like Howard, Chicago State, East Tennessee State and Northern Arizona!

In all seriousness though, what if they added a clause to the rule that limited the number of immediate transfers any one program could accept annually? Cap it at one for basketball, four for football, etc. Base it on a percentage of roster size. That way, yes, it can happen, but no, Kentucky can't just sign an all-star team of 12 other conference players of the year.
 
Eight Legger said:
On the bright side: Think of all the studs WE can now land immediately from places like Howard, Chicago State, East Tennessee State and Northern Arizona!
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This actually will happen, meaning there are studs at smaller schools who will likely transfer up. There are also many kids who think they should play a lot more than they do. I hope coaches are honest with them about their possible playing time.
 
My questions are:
If the top of the P5 improve from this rule, then how good will their 9th or 10th player be?
And can they have success at the best mid-majors?
And will they be willing to transfer?
 
We have benefitted recently from transfers up in TJ and now Francis. Imagine Mooney's record without those two? I don't like this rule either, but seems like it is being fast forwarded with Covid circumstances. Mooney needs to adapt. Took him forever to start to mine the transfer market in the first place, can't imagine he will adapt well to this.

Yes, not thrilled with the example of Burton, geez. And really don't think it helps whiffing on Gianni Thompson and Ian Schieffelin, then losing Weir. As much as I like the incoming recruits can't help but think we are in rebuild mode next year. Love Goose, but he is a very good role player. Like what I saw from Crabtree, but he is very injury prone, lot to come back from - two hip surgeries and broken foot. But with Hardt and Mooney steering the ship, I'm sure we will pivot and adapt.
 
This rule makes Mooney a much more valuable coach. He has done a terrific job of developing players both as basketball players and individuals, which has helped him create strong loyalty from his players and very few senior transfers. That is exactly what is need in this new environment.

He has also had a large percent of starters go on to successful pro careers in Europe and the 2 seniors that did transfer would have probably done better with their careers if they had stayed. I think Burton's probability of making the NBA is higher if he stays a Spider and continues to improve under Mooney.
 
spider23 said:
Mooney needs to adapt. Took him forever to start to mine the transfer market in the first place, can't imagine he will adapt well to this.
Click to expand...
Mooney to Admissions: "We need to make an admissions exception for this athlete"
Admissions: No.
Mooney to Athletic Director: "We need to make an admissions exception for this athlete"
Athletic Director: crickets...
Athletic Director: crickets...
Athletic Director: Ummm... No, talk to admissions.
Spidernation: "Mooney can't recruit. Fire Mooney, NOW."
 
UR80sfan said:
This rule makes Mooney a much more valuable coach. He has done a terrific job of developing players both as basketball players and individuals, which has helped him create strong loyalty from his players and very few senior transfers. That is exactly what is need in this new environment.

He has also had a large percent of starters go on to successful pro careers in Europe and the 2 seniors that did transfer would have probably done better with their careers if they had stayed. I think Burton's probability of making the NBA is higher if he stays a Spider and continues to improve under Mooney.
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Then why was he so opposed to it?
 
ChoppinBroccoli said:
Then why was he so opposed to it?
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Because it is terrible for mid-major teams, although it does improve his value. He is putting the team as a higher priority than himself.

Do you disagree that he is well regarded by his players and has done a good job of not losing red-shirted seniors historically?
 
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Gallipoli said:
All this does is enable petulant children. Students learn by growth, not by quitting. About 99% of student athletes do not play professional sports. JMHO.
Click to expand...

But how many of those 99% THINK they can play professional sports? Nelson Ododa is a prime example of this.
 
UR80sfan said:
Because it is terrible for mid-major teams, although it does improve his value. He is putting the team as a higher priority than himself.

Do you disagree that he is well regarded by his players and has done a good job of not losing red-shirted seniors historically?
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I agree that he is well regarded by his players. I'm not sure how to evaluate the second part of your statement relative to other coaches. We don't seem to have lost too many grad transfers historically, but our best players generally don't redshirt unless it's medical.

I don't like the rule. I think the rule will be more terrible for teams in one-bid leagues. We already get transfers from those leagues. I'm sure we would have loved to have Blake able to step into Khwan's spot right away in 2018-19. On the other hand, we wouldn't have him this year had that been the case.
 
Did Alonzo Ododa’s transfer help him? Wasn’t the g league as far as he went
 
By the way why is a professional athlete required to adhere to a contract but a college player isn’t?
 
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Terrible rule for fans (especially for a school like ours) although not surprising. The only amendment I would of made to the transfer rule is you cant lose eligibility for transferring, but you do need to sit a year. For example a RS SO tries to transfer but would only have 1 year left to play. Let them transfer, sit out a year then begin play as a junior. Anyone who thinks this is a net benefit to us needs to reevaluate what exactly this brings to the table for the school. Its not like we have a very friendly admission policy or several post graduate majors to put players in.

Unless we have another recruiting visionary walk through our doors like Dave Clawson we will be the poachee more than the poacher. Id say set up a pipeline to the Ivy League would be the best way for us to take advantage of it considering its easier academically, you get a scholarship, and a level up in play (With the exception of Lax). I don't like it but we better adapt or we are not going to enjoy the results.
 
spider23 said:
As much as I like the incoming recruits can't help but think we are in rebuild mode next year. Love Goose, but he is a very good role player. Like what I saw from Crabtree, but he is very injury prone, lot to come back from - two hip surgeries and broken foot. But with Hardt and Mooney steering the ship, I'm sure we will pivot and adapt.
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yeah, hard to argue. but a lot of that is just the uncertainty. who besides Burton will be an alpha once the seniors leave? someone will. they won't all be role players. but we don't know.
I don't envision the current returning guys alone leading us to glory despite it being a solid group. I think we'll need one (probably Nelson) and maybe two (TBD) freshmen to be impact guys early. and it's possible. plus we might/should/will add another guy.
 
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Not sure why Mooney’s complaining. This is essentially a 10 year contract extension and another $13M (pre tax) in the bank.

It‘s a beautiful built in excuse in 2029 for why we are on year 18 of the never-ending no-NCAA-bid streak: “Not my fault...my best players transfer each year....”
 
Ferrum Spider said:
Id say set up a pipeline to the Ivy League would be the best way for us to take advantage of it considering its easier academically, you get a scholarship, and a level up in play (With the exception of Lax).
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for the next 4 years, every graduating senior in the Ivy League will have only played 3 years. there are some good players there that will chose to grad transfer and play one more year for free.

as for the new rule, it might add some but I'm not so sure it'll be the free for all that we fear. we get about 1,000 transfers per year already. that's almost 3 per team. I don't think everyone wants to transfer. some kids are actually happy where they are.
 
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I guess the good news is the vote was postponed. Doesn’t seem like the rules are very well thought out, but what can you expect from the NCAA.

Odd that JOC felt the need to single out Burton. I guess he really doesn’t like the Spiders.

Mooney definitely doesn’t like this rule. No mid-major coach does. Who would want to win a borderline P5 level recruit only to lose them to a P5 school a couple years later? Also, to think that historical patterns would tell you anything about how this rule would affect future teams is crazy. If the rules of the game change, there is no historical precedent.
 
The other thing is that the very best programs already have their pick of the litter. There are only so many scholarships. Are they just going to stop signing freshmen and poach transfers instead? If so, programs like ours can swoop in on those freshmen. This goes both ways.

So for a guy like Burton, is it worth it to transfer to a school like NC State, if teams like Duke, Kentucky and UNC aren't interested?
 
Eight Legger said:
The other thing is that the very best programs already have their pick of the litter. There are only so many scholarships. Are they just going to stop signing freshmen and poach transfers instead? If so, programs like ours can swoop in on those freshmen. This goes both ways.
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Right, swoop in on freshmen that may not be ready to play at the college level. Develop these players hoping they don’t catch the eye of a higher level program. Hope all the most talented guys are really loyal to your program and not fed up with losing (expect the growing pains phase). Sounds like a winning formula to me.

The best part of college basketball which is watching a team develop over a period of years will be reduced to a bunch of changes every year just like today’s one and done programs. UK and Duke love this rule because now they can get players with proven college experience to mix with the best of the freshman class, no waiting required.
 
Gallipoli said:
Mooney to Admissions: "We need to make an admissions exception for this athlete"
Admissions: No.
Mooney to Athletic Director: "We need to make an admissions exception for this athlete"
Athletic Director: crickets...
Athletic Director: crickets...
Athletic Director: Ummm... No, talk to admissions.
Spidernation: "Mooney can't recruit. Fire Mooney, NOW."
Click to expand...
BS, either moon is a baby or his boy PQ did not have his back. No proof this happened and if it did happen as the top paid employee you fight for yourself or pull in your friend PQ and have him wave his big checkbook. Bogus narrative.
 
spider23 said:
BS, either moon is a baby or his boy PQ did not have his back. No proof this happened and if it did happen as the top paid employee you fight for yourself or pull in your friend PQ and have him wave his big checkbook. Bogus narrative.
Click to expand...
Who was the guy who was going to play for UR, couldnt get in, and went to Xavier?
 
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