NIL will change college basketball forever

[UR80sfan]

I just found out from a reliable source that Villanova paid Tyler Burton $525,000 to play for them. If it wasn't for the NIL payment he would have either returned to U of R or gone professional.

There is going to be more disparity in average quality of player between power conferences and non-power conference. It will also be much harder for teams in non-power conferences to make the NCAA without winning their conference. I could see major conference realignments based on how much NIL money a program has. It will probably take a couple years for things to shake out, but U of R should be in a better position than most mid-major teams.

Speaking of NIL, as I mentioned in another post, it is controlled by a small number of alumni who have done a great job of building out The Spider Cooperative program that will be available for the broader fan base to participate. It is completely separate from the school, which is why Mooney and the Athletic Department would not comment on it. As a matter of fact, VCU's comments that they backed the NIL program could be an NCAA violation.

 

[KE Spider]

80s dont know all the facts, but appears VCU was proactive while we Spiders were reactive. Don't take any joy in saying this, but suggests the former is committed to winning and the latter to competing.

 

[UR80sfan]

80s dont know all the facts, but appears VCU was proactive while we Spiders were reactive. Don't take any joy in saying this, but suggests the former is committed to winning and the latter to competing.

I am sorry, but it is true you do not know the facts. You are incorrect relative to NIL and U of R. You are also wrong that U of R does not want to win, they just don't want to lower their current academic standards for players.

I personally think we will always have a difficult time competing with VCU because they have very low academic standards.

 

[KE Spider]

Do know this fact. Spiders win 55% of the time which should be unacceptable to any serious fan.

 

[MrTbone]

Well, that was kind of cringeworthy.

 

[Spiders4ever]

Effin' academics.

 

[Spider2020]

Good for Tyler. NIL will be important for the future of the program, but I doubt we will ever be able to spend like the power conference teams, or teams with alumni bases 5 times the size of ours. We need to find our niche, wherever that may be.

 

[PASpider]

I am sorry, but it is true you do not know the facts. You are incorrect relative to NIL and U of R. You are also wrong that U of R does not want to win, they just don't want to lower their current academic standards for players.

I personally think we will always have a difficult time competing with VCU because they have very low academic standards.

Stop it. Most of the players we’ve had come through Richmond would never have been accepted had it not been for basketball. We’ve already lowered standards to an extent. We are talking about a basketball team with 13 players, not the entire incoming freshmen class. To try to keep some kind of in between standard makes no sense.

 

[AnnapSpider]

I’m wondering why the mid-majors haven’t sued the NCAA for the unfair labor practices based on
their original agreements with the NCAA? I’m not an attorney, but one of you on the board
might have an answer.

 

[Wood Hall]

I’m wondering why the mid-majors haven’t sued the NCAA for the unfair labor practices based on
their original agreements with the NCAA? I’m not an attorney, but one of you on the board
might have an answer.

College athletic programs join the NCAA voluntarily, agreeing to follow the rules of the organization. They are under no obligation to stay when the rules change.

NIL, over time, will kill the mid- and low-major programs. The top teams will simply poach any talent the MMs or LMs develop, as the player who shines at those levels will transfer to a program where he can get more exposure, make more money, and have more perks.

If the report about Burton is true, does anyone seriously think we could have kept him, or that he would have even considered turning down more than one-half million dollars to return to UR? Had he done so, I'd question the quality of the education he received here.

 

[spiderman]

I just found out from a reliable source that Villanova paid Tyler Burton $525,000 to play for them. If it wasn't for the NIL payment he would have either returned to U of R or gone professional.

at $525k, he did go professional.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

I am sorry, but it is true you do not know the facts. You are incorrect relative to NIL and U of R. You are also wrong that U of R does not want to win, they just don't want to lower their current academic standards for players.

I personally think we will always have a difficult time competing with VCU because they have very low academic standards.

I respect that you have this opinion. But each time I see it, I feel compelled to reply that this is excuse-making loser talk. We can find 13 high-quality basketball players that want what Richmond offers academically without lowering either our basketball standards or academic standards.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

Stop it. Most of the players we’ve had come through Richmond would never have been accepted had it not been for basketball. We’ve already lowered standards to an extent. We are talking about a basketball team with 13 players, not the entire incoming freshmen class. To try to keep some kind of in between standard makes no sense.

You have this on good authority that our hoops players wouldn't have been accepted otherwise?

 

[Eight Legger]

I respect that you have this opinion. But each time I see it, I feel compelled to reply that this is excuse-making loser talk. We can find 13 high-quality basketball players that want what Richmond offers academically without lowering either our basketball standards or academic standards.

100% accurate.

 

[SpiderTrap]

I respect that you have this opinion. But each time I see it, I feel compelled to reply that this is excuse-making loser talk. We can find 13 high-quality basketball players that want what Richmond offers academically without lowering either our basketball standards or academic standards.

I don't think that is the case anymore. Maybe 15-20 years ago. But times have changed. Kids play AAU ball year round, academics is very much secondary. You recruit a kid today - your working more on his parents and AAU coach than talking academics or his HS coach, who might have better insight into the kid as a person seeing them daily for 4 years.

Plus - pressure is put on kids these days to get a scholarship, so they specialize at early age. I just don't think academics is important anymore to 90% of the programs out there because they know it is very difficult to field a highly competitive team with those handcuffs and they see the value in having a successful basketball or other sports programs. Not all are successful of course, but college basketball is now a multimillion dollar business. Look at UR - in the span of 20 years, when JB left UR for WVU - he was making about 250K from UR. Then JW took over and I believe was making 300-400K. We now pay our coach $1 million dollars a year, we fly private jets, we have practice facility, etc.

Are there 13 kids out there who are high quality basketball players and good academic students - there are. But those numbers have gotten less over the years, and I think those kids are harder to come by. Maybe you get 1 or 2 on your team, then your reaching with the rest of the roster. Times have changed in my opinion from this statement and belief.

 

[SFspidur]

Not sure what more we can expect when even our sugar daddy believes academics is our Achilles' heel (only ~15% of non-UR/Davidson starters in the A-10 could be admitted even under our lowest bar, according to him) and even if it wasn't the case, we don't spend enough on hoops to expect better than what we've got.

 

[spiderman]

Trap, there have always been athletic studs with poor academics. there have always been smart kids who can play too. AAU hasn't changed that.

we absolutely have a different standard for student athletes (particularly in revenue producing sports) vs the general student population. it's really hard to get into UR academically. it's not as hard as an athlete. every D1 school does this. there's money and prestige in winning athletically.

we've always had a smaller pool than some schools to choose from. we've lived in the pool of higher academic athlete who didn't get P5 offers. we had an advantage at that level with our campus and facilities. we still do, but it'll be tough to match NIL dollars with so few donors as a much smaller school than a lot of our competitors. if Queally and his group can do it alone, more power to them.

NIL does change everything, and not for the better at UR. in the past you could consider moving up after a good year, but there we no guarantees. you leave UR for Villanova and there's risk. you may not necessarily benefit. but now there's a tangible benefit in addition to the move up in program and conference. a lot of guaranteed money. more than I think we'll be able to pull together.

 

[SFspidur]

Presuming that Tyler NIL figure is accurate, he's making about as much as an NBA two-way deal (like Gilly is on).

 

[97spiderfan]

I personally think we will always have a difficult time competing with VCU because they have very low academic standards.

We haven't been able to compete with VCU for the past 20 years. What are we during Mooney's tenure, 7-25? or something against them. This isn't new.

And if Tyler got half a million dollars to go play a year at Villanova, that is crazy. Good for him. Bad for college basketball though.

Anyone have any idea what our NIL is paying players?

 

[spider23]

To me, any of these guys getting hundreds of thousands a year is a no brainer, especially any player that is not a lock for the NBA. Getting a half a million starter on your retirement while in college? 525,000 making 8% for 20 years is almost 2.5 million. Not bad work if you can get it for playing college hoops.

I am of the opinion that all these crazy deals will come back to earth in a few years. We see these teams with highly recruited guys fail, and I feel like the backers will find other ways to spend the money.

But if you can get a half a million in the bank before starting your post college career, seems like an obvious choice.

 

[spider3309]

Presuming that Tyler NIL figure is accurate, he's making about as much as an NBA two-way deal (like Gilly is on).

It's accurate.

 

[UR80sfan]

We haven't been able to compete with VCU for the past 20 years. What are we during Mooney's tenure, 7-25? or something against them. This isn't new.

And if Tyler got half a million dollars to go play a year at Villanova, that is crazy. Good for him. Bad for college basketball though.

Anyone have any idea what our NIL is paying players?

Unfortunately our terrible record against VCU goes back 45 years not just 20 and includes many different coaches.

 

[SFspidur]

Over the 20 seasons prior to Mooney's arrival, the series was VCU 17, UR 16.

 

[urmite]

Unfortunately our terrible record against VCU goes back 45 years not just 20 and includes many different coaches.

It was not consistently terrible. But I do feel the times it was better was more about their coach at the time than ours.

 

[urmite]

As far as athletics and academics, I have no idea how it actually plays out, but I will say this...

If you needed to be better than the lowest quintile in academics of incoming freshman at UR to be on a sports team, then that may be more difficult today than 20 years ago and even more so than 40 years ago.

I also feel if all A-10 schools had that same requirement there would be at least a few that we would be at a disadvantage against.

 

[urmite]

Over the 20 seasons prior to Mooney's arrival, the series was VCU 17, UR 16.

It would be interesting to see our 45 season record against VCU teams that went to postseason vs those that didn't.

 

[97spiderfan]

Over the 20 seasons prior to Mooney's arrival, the series was VCU 17, UR 16.

SF, bringing the receipts.

 

[spider23]

It is amazing the lengths that folks go to show that Mooney is not mediocre, or is in line with other coaches. I don't care what you say, when you have John Beilein or Dick Tarrant as your coach, you go into every game thinking you can win. Instead of dreading playing the good teams, you wake up that morning smelling an upset. I miss that positive energy.

 

[Wood Hall]

To me, any of these guys getting hundreds of thousands a year is a no brainer, especially any player that is not a lock for the NBA. Getting a half a million starter on your retirement while in college? 525,000 making 8% for 20 years is almost 2.5 million. Not bad work if you can get it for playing college hoops.

I am of the opinion that all these crazy deals will come back to earth in a few years. We see these teams with highly recruited guys fail, and I feel like the backers will find other ways to spend the money.

But if you can get a half a million in the bank before starting your post college career, seems like an obvious choice.

Well, it's income so he will have to pay taxes, so maybe he sees $375K, and getting 8% right now isn't easy. But yes, a nice chunk of change to start your post-collegiate life with, if he invests it wisely.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

I wonder if our NIL is non-profit or for-profit...

IRS Ruling

 

[kneepadmckinney]

I don't think that is the case anymore. Maybe 15-20 years ago. But times have changed. Kids play AAU ball year round, academics is very much secondary. You recruit a kid today - your working more on his parents and AAU coach than talking academics or his HS coach, who might have better insight into the kid as a person seeing them daily for 4 years.

Plus - pressure is put on kids these days to get a scholarship, so they specialize at early age. I just don't think academics is important anymore to 90% of the programs out there because they know it is very difficult to field a highly competitive team with those handcuffs and they see the value in having a successful basketball or other sports programs. Not all are successful of course, but college basketball is now a multimillion dollar business. Look at UR - in the span of 20 years, when JB left UR for WVU - he was making about 250K from UR. Then JW took over and I believe was making 300-400K. We now pay our coach $1 million dollars a year, we fly private jets, we have practice facility, etc.

Are there 13 kids out there who are high quality basketball players and good academic students - there are. But those numbers have gotten less over the years, and I think those kids are harder to come by. Maybe you get 1 or 2 on your team, then your reaching with the rest of the roster. Times have changed in my opinion from this statement and belief.

I think very fair. I agree the pool of candidates may be much smaller, for many reasons including the specialization of athletes at a young age, the dirty business of AAU, and other factors. I remain steadfast in my view that UR is an attractive enough opportunity that we should be able to attract 13 players without having to lower standards.

And by the way, I don't think that "easier to get in as an athlete" is synonymous with "lowering standards".

 

[8legs1dream]

It is amazing the lengths that folks go to show that Mooney is not mediocre, or is in line with other coaches. I don't care what you say, when you have John Beilein or Dick Tarrant as your coach, you go into every game thinking you can win. Instead of dreading playing the good teams, you wake up that morning smelling an upset. I miss that positive energy.

it is EXHAUSTING.

There is always, and I mean always an excuse for the MoonMan. Only succeed once in a dozen years and focus on the 1 year rather than the 11.

 

[Captain Anderson]

Over the 20 seasons prior to Mooney's arrival, the series was VCU 17, UR 16.

Many different coaches for them...one for us.

 

[urmite]

Many different coaches for them...one for us.

And who was that one coach for us in the 20 seasons PRIOR to Mooney?

 

[RichmondNative]

It's accurate.

How much are all the other starters getting then? Definitely need a new name because this is no longer college basketball. The European model is making more sense all the time. Regional teams that have no connections to Universities.

 

[Captain Anderson]

And who was that one coach for us in the 20 seasons PRIOR to Mooney?

I should have quoted the original post on this topic to avoid confusion. Even if we did have only one coach for the entire twenty seasons prior to Mooney his winning percentage against VCU would have been miles ahead of the Moon Man's.

 

[spiderman]

I think very fair. I agree the pool of candidates may be much smaller, for many reasons including the specialization of athletes at a young age, the dirty business of AAU, and other factors.

I dont understand how any of that shrinks the pool of good basketball players with grades/scores.

 

[spiderman]

And by the way, I don't think that "easier to get in as an athlete" is synonymous with "lowering standards".

not sure what you mean here either. there are clearly lower academic standards for athletes. maybe you're just saying we haven't lowered them? that they were always lower?

 

[MrTbone]

not sure what you mean here either. there are clearly lower academic standards for athletes. maybe you're just saying we haven't lowered them? that they were always lower?

I suspect that by definition, a "standard" refers to a bar or goal which in this particular case, you expect all students to qualify at or above. I imagine the point is we have some reasonable number of athletes that are at or above the standard and don't require it being lowered. This shouldn't be confused with being competitive academically to the rest of the student body.

I think "lowering" the standards is not what happens. I think what happens based on what I've heard from someone in a position to know is that coaches are allotted spots in the admission pool so they have quite a bit of flexibility to bring in who they want without those individuals comparing directly with the rest of the class.

 

[spiderman]

you can say the standard is the minimum, but the "average" UR student is like a 3.9 unweighted GPA and almost 1500 SAT. we don't take anyone near that minimum line unless they're spectactular at something ... a sport, or a cello, or something.