Next Year Roster

[VT4700]

LOL. The "should have called timeouts" stuff comes out again.

Here are the first half timeouts:

15:48 TV timeout 10-4 Providence.

13:19 Richmond timeout 18-8 Providence. 8-4 Providence run between timeouts.

10:42 TV timeout 24-11 Providence. 6-3 Providence run between timeouts.

7:40 TV timeout 30-18 Providence. 7-6 Richmond run between timeouts. And, now that is 4 total timeouts the first 12:20 of the game. You really think more would have helped?

3:54 TV timeout 34-20 Providence. 4-2 Providence run between timeouts.

So, when exactly should more timeouts have been used? And, believe it not, newsflash, timeouts are not guaranteed to stop a run anyway. But, in this game, where was the need for one to stop a run? For every example that shows a timeout might have helped, there are just as many that show it wouldn't have. Just like there are examples both ways of not calling timeouts helping a team and not helping a team. My, goodness, there are plenty of reasons why teams win or lose games. Not calling timeouts is not one if them.

 

[LongTimeSpiderFan]

... someone feed me some inside information about our next transfer... I'm showing withdrawal symptoms!

 

[spiderman]

👀

 

[SpiderK]

LOL. The "should have called timeouts" stuff comes out again.

Here are the first half timeouts:

15:48 TV timeout 10-4 Providence.

13:19 Richmond timeout 18-8 Providence. 8-4 Providence run between timeouts.

10:42 TV timeout 24-11 Providence. 6-3 Providence run between timeouts.

7:40 TV timeout 30-18 Providence. 7-6 Richmond run between timeouts. And, now that is 4 total timeouts the first 12:20 of the game. You really think more would have helped?

3:54 TV timeout 34-20 Providence. 4-2 Providence run between timeouts.

So, when exactly should more timeouts have been used? And, believe it not, newsflash, timeouts are not guaranteed to stop a run anyway. But, in this game, where was the need for one to stop a run? For every example that shows a timeout might have helped, there are just as many that show it wouldn't have. Just like there are examples both ways of not calling timeouts helping a team and not helping a team. My, goodness, there are plenty of reasons why teams win or lose games. Not calling timeouts is not one if them.

Lol. That’s exactly what we all would have predicted. Thanks for the affirmation.

 

[spider23]

PG - Dji / Nelson
SG - Goose /Crabtree/Roche/Dread
SF - Burton/ Randolph
PF - Grace/Bigelow/Noyes
C - Quinn/ Walz

Looks like we are set, barring any unforeseen transfers, or if Burton stays in the draft.

Very very crowded at off guard/wing position. Should make for some good preseason practices I would think. It will be interesting to see the chemistry dynamic. Would think there are a lot of guys sick of sitting on the bench and aiming for big minutes. PG position, I believe most on this board were expecting Nelson to step in, however that thinking was that Dji would be competing for minutes at the 2 and 3 - which per spiderdad seems more like will be targetting PG. This is a nice problem to have IMO, as in the past we have not had any competition for spots. If Burton stays in the draft, will open up a huge chunk of minutes - which I think would benefit Noyes and Bigelow the most. I am thinking, channeling Mooney's past usage type based on seniority, etc - with Quinn the real outlier here - and Roche/Bigelow to smaller degree - could look something like:
MInutes by position:
1 Dji 20 , Nelson 20 - depends who wins this battle Dji I believe will play next to Nelson too sometimes.
2. Goose - 28 minutes
3. Burton - 36 minutes
4. Grace - 25 minutes
5. Quinn - 30 minutes

Will be very interesting to see distribution.

 

[SpiderDad75]

PG - Dji / Nelson
SG - Goose /Crabtree/Roche/Dread
SF - Burton/ Randolph
PF - Grace/Bigelow/Noyes
C - Quinn/ Walz

Looks like we are set, barring any unforeseen transfers, or if Burton stays in the draft.

Very very crowded at off guard/wing position. Should make for some good preseason practices I would think. It will be interesting to see the chemistry dynamic. Would think there are a lot of guys sick of sitting on the bench and aiming for big minutes. PG position, I believe most on this board were expecting Nelson to step in, however that thinking was that Dji would be competing for minutes at the 2 and 3 - which per spiderdad seems more like will be targetting PG. This is a nice problem to have IMO, as in the past we have not had any competition for spots. If Burton stays in the draft, will open up a huge chunk of minutes - which I think would benefit Noyes and Bigelow the most. I am thinking, channeling Mooney's past usage type based on seniority, etc - with Quinn the real outlier here - and Roche/Bigelow to smaller degree - could look something like:
MInutes by position:
1 Dji 20 , Nelson 20 - depends who wins this battle Dji I believe will play next to Nelson too sometimes.
2. Goose - 28 minutes
3. Burton - 36 minutes
4. Grace - 25 minutes
5. Quinn - 30 minutes

Will be very interesting to see distribution.

I can’t really see any other options at PG other than Jason and Dji. Goose can fill in if needed. Roche played what..36 min a game last yr. Def don’t think he will see that much. I like what others have proposed defensively(some zone) bc of our size. Burton will be the guy that plays 36-40 like you have. This summer is going to really important. I know Dji will be home for about 2 wks soon then right back to start summer school/wrkouts. If Roche has another shooting performance this upcoming season and Tyler shoots it at least just as decent then we have guys like Jason, Dji and Goose who may not shoot it over 30% but if they are close we will be very dangerous. Oops didn’t even think about Bigelow…who will def. make us better not worse from outside.

 

[Anachnid]

“I like what others have proposed defensively(some zone) bc of our size”
I’d like to think there will be “adjustments/changes” to the kids’ strengths, but history says otherwise. You list 6 guards with potential playing time. Could they also platoon to press a whole game? As interested as I am with the additional talent, I want these guys to play loose and ENJOY playing for UR. They deserve this chance at this level.

 

[spiderman]

Dad, has Mooney talked to Dji about playing PG next year? I may be wrong but I thought you said he was told to prepare to play at the 2, but with the final roster I think he's got to be a 1 now. there'll still be time for Dji to play with Jason.

 

[SpiderDad75]

Dad, has Mooney talked to Dji about playing PG next year? I may be wrong but I thought you said he was told to prepare to play at the 2, but with the final roster I think he's got to be a 1 now. there'll still be time for Dji to play with Jason.

Don’t think so, but he was told he would be used as both. There were times last season when he ran it. There are no other options on the roster at PG other than Dji…right, unless I’m missing something. But we are logged jammed at the 2 for sure. It only seems logical to me 😀

 

[spiderman]

Don’t think so, but he was told he would be used as both. There were times last season when he ran it. There are no other options on the roster at PG other than Dji…right, unless I’m missing something. But we are logged jammed at the 2 for sure. It only seems logical to me 😀

agreed. they're the only 2 point guards. it should be an open competition between them for the starting spot. they'll both play.

 

[urmite]

I can’t really see any other options at PG other than Jason and Dji. Goose can fill in if needed. Roche played what..36 min a game last yr. Def don’t think he will see that much. I like what others have proposed defensively(some zone) bc of our size. Burton will be the guy that plays 36-40 like you have. This summer is going to really important. I know Dji will be home for about 2 wks soon then right back to start summer school/wrkouts. If Roche has another shooting performance this upcoming season and Tyler shoots it at least just as decent then we have guys like Jason, Dji and Goose who may not shoot it over 30% but if they are close we will be very dangerous. Oops didn’t even think about Bigelow…who will def. make us better not worse from outside.

As for shooting, how does this sound:

Roche & Burton
Bigelow & Crabtree & Noyes
Grace & Goose

and that is not including Bailey & Nelson

 

[urmite]

Worse thing the other way, is we have 7 players who haven’t been on the court for us yet, and an 8th with 28 minutes.
Even. Dji about 200, Crab about 300.

So we will need to turn all these players into a team…

 

[urmite]

We all know about the offense, but I will ask a question about the defense.

What percentage of the time should we only have 1 player out of 5 who can defend inside 12 feet?

We need to see who less than 6'10" can do that...

My current understanding is we have:
3 inside defenders - (Quinn, Walz, Grace)
3 outside defenders - (Goose, Dread, Randolph)
5 outside shooters - (Burton, Roche, Bigelow, Crabtree, Noyes)
2 Distributors - (Nelson, Bailey)

Yes, players have more than one skill, and can develop more, plus I could be completely wrong on the base line.
But does this look at all accurate?

Spiderdad may have some insight between now and August...

 

[SpiderDad75]

We all know about the offense, but I will ask a question about the defense.

What percentage of the time should we only have 1 player out of 5 who can defend inside 12 feet?

We need to see who less than 6'10" can do that...

My current understanding is we have:
3 inside defenders - (Quinn, Walz, Grace)
3 outside defenders - (Goose, Dread, Randolph)
5 outside shooters - (Burton, Roche, Bigelow, Crabtree, Noyes)
2 Distributors - (Nelson, Bailey)

Yes, players have more than one skill, and can develop more, plus I could be completely wrong on the base line.
But does this look at all accurate?

Spiderdad may have some insight between now and August...

I think Goose and Dji are our two best on ball guys. Not sure about the young guys yet we just haven’t seen them. Tyler can, when he wants too and Crab is solid as far as out outside defenders.

 

[SpiderDad75]

Is there any footage of Roche out there, game footage not necessarily highlights? I've been to lazy to look myself. I know what I've been told about him but wanted to see some footage my self. My question is can he put it on the floor, can he beat his man, can he create and pull up, or his he just a spot up shooter?

 

[VT4700]

This shows more than just 3 pointers.

 

[SpiderDad75]

This shows more than just 3 pointers.

View embedded media

cool thanks

 

[SpiderDad75]

Those are solid...quick release, not a super quick guy, decent ball handler, and you better close out on him. I would say for a guard like him teams will need to be physical with him bc if not he could burn them(thats what we want 😁) . Someone else said something about defense. I think if he can play decent enough D it will be hard to keep him on the bench. I think in terms of comparing him to McCorkle bc I've seen him more, Carson had the edge in athleticism and was a little quicker but Roche can flat out shoot the cover off the ball!

 

[72Spider]

Is there any footage of Roche out there, game footage not necessarily highlights? I've been to lazy to look myself. I know what I've been told about him but wanted to see some footage my self. My question is can he put it on the floor, can he beat his man, can he create and pull up, or his he just a spot up shooter?

Google Pitt vs. The Citadel. He went off for 27 in that game this year.

 

[72Spider]

Google Pitt vs. The Citadel. He went off for 27 in that game this year.

Youtube

 

[SFspidur]

Sure doesn't need a lot of space or time to get that shot off, does he?

 

[SFspidur]

Google Pitt vs. The Citadel. He went off for 27 in that game this year.

He didn't take any two-pointers in that game....8 three pointers plus three free throws when he got fouled on a three attempt.

 

[SpiderDad75]

Sure doesn't need a lot of space or time to get that shot off, does he?

NO...he does not

 

[spiderman]

This shows more than just 3 pointers.

View embedded media

pretty ridiculous shooting/scoring ability and with good size. clearly colleges didn't think it would translate to the next level. doesn't make much sense that even lower level schools didn't offer. I'm guessing they felt he couldn't defend. we'll have to see.

 

[SpiderDad75]

pretty ridiculous shooting/scoring ability and with good size. clearly colleges didn't think it would translate to the next level. doesn't make much sense that even lower level schools didn't offer. I'm guessing they felt he couldn't defend. we'll have to see.

In my experience on why kids aren't offered is bc of something that turns off coaches...grades, defense, even parents. Not saying that this was the reason, coaches could have simply missed. There is a kid that was being recruited by a lot of HM guys and the primary recruiter told me why they weren't that serious with said kid. It was basically the same thing that we knew about the kid. He was a hype monster bc he rubbed elbows with all the social media guys. When this kid ended up at college he transferred this year. Some staff see things differently than others. All of the things that I was told on why he wasn't on that level showed once he got to school. He transferred out this year. He also transferred to 3 HS during his time and 4-5 AAU teams. All kinds of factors on why kids are and aren't recruited. We are truly thankful we got out before COVID. Also Garner Road, David & Dwayne West fought for Dji at every turn when it came to getting recruited. All teams and coaches don't do that for their players.

 

[Spiderstew1962]

Sure doesn't need a lot of space or time to get that shot off, does he?

It will be hard for Mooney to keep him on the bench. Too much of a scoring threat. Plus, he is used to playing a lot of minutes. If he plays the two, there won't need to be much of a rotation between him and someone else. Someone is going to get left out.

 

[97spiderfan]

It will be hard for Mooney to keep him on the bench. Too much of a scoring threat. Plus, he is used to playing a lot of minutes. If he plays the two, there won't need to be much of a rotation between him and someone else. Someone is going to get left out.

Yep, Roche has shown us what he can do at the college level. Which means to me, one of our freshman who sat out last year isn't playing that much this year.

 

[VT4700]

We can assume Nelson and Dji will be part of the rotation at PG, and also assume Grace and Quinn get big minutes as the bigs. Adding Goose, Burton (hopefully), and Crabtree makes 7. Then, Roche and Bigelow make 9. The other 4 are going to have to show a whole lot to break into the rotation this year. It is hard to know if this is possible because we just haven't seen them.

 

[spiderman]

in my book Roche will be a locked in starter with Quinn and Burton. he can do something that nobody else on the roster can likely do ... and we need it.
the other spots can be fought for:
Nelson and Dji for the lead guard spot
Goose, Bigelow, Crabtree, Grace and Dji for the other spot.
regardless who wins starting spots, those are my projected 9 playing.

I don't mean to exclude Randolph, Dread, Noyes or Walz but it's going to be really tough to break in ahead of that group. maybe one can earn significant time. I wish them luck though.

 

[VT4700]

In my book, Goose will definitely be a starter. His defense is just too good, and you want to set the tone from the opening tip with some defense, especially if Goose prevents the other team's top scorer from getting comfortable and going off early. If Roche doesn't start, he could still easily get a ton of minutes, and it's not an either/or with them because they could both be on the floor together.

Nelson/Dji 40
Burton 36
Goose 28
Roche 28
Grace/Crabtree/Bigelow 28
Quinn/Grace 40

 

[spiderman]

In my book, Goose will definitely be a starter. His defense is just too good, and you want to set the tone from the opening tip with some defense, especially if Goose prevents the other team's top scorer from getting comfortable and going off early. If Roche doesn't start, he could still easily get a ton of minutes, and it's not an either/or with them because they could both be on the floor together.

understood, and I'm not saying that they can't play or even start together.
Nelson or Dji
Roche
Goose
Burton
Quinn

the others (Grace, Crabtree, Bigelow, and Dji again) all have a shot at one of the wing spots. you just think its Roche's spot they could take, while I think it's Goose's.

 

[97spiderfan]

in my book Roche will be a locked in starter with Quinn and Burton. he can do something that nobody else on the roster can likely do ... and we need it.
the other spots can be fought for:
Nelson and Dji for the lead guard spot
Goose, Bigelow, Crabtree, Grace and Dji for the other spot.
regardless who wins starting spots, those are my projected 9 playing.

I don't mean to exclude Randolph, Dread, Noyes or Walz but it's going to be really tough to break in ahead of that group. maybe one can earn significant time. I wish them luck though.

Roche might not start at the beginning of the year because we all know Mooney likes his experienced guys, but if he shoots like he shot last year, he will be starting by the end of the year. Whether, that means Goose starts at the 3, Burton at 4 and we bring Grace off the bench, or he just replaced Goose in the starting line-up and Goose gets 6th man minutes, I think this is what will end up happening.

You don't bring in this type of talent for them to be a 7th or 8th man off the bench. Sorry, someone is getting squeezed here in my opinion. All good problems to have. Lots of competition for minutes.

 

[Eight Legger]

Agreed, if Roche can replicate what he did last year, I'm trying to find ways to play him more than 40 minutes a game if I can.

 

[VT4700]

Agreed, if Roche can replicate what he did last year, I'm trying to find ways to play him more than 40 minutes a game if I can.

Let me start by again saying I am more than thrilled with the Roche pick up. Most should know by now how important I think the 3 point shot is, so I get wanting to keep him on the floor a lot. But, we still need to see him defensively. And, there will likely be a good amount of games where his 3s are not falling. His final 8 games last year, he was 17-61 from 3 (27.8%). He only averaged 8 points a game during that stretch. Before that, he had games of 1-9, 2-8, 1-5, 1-5, and 1-4 scattered through the season. They lost all of them, and he only averaged 6 points a game in those 5 losses. I understand that pretty much happens to everyone, especially volume 3 shooters, and of course, the good news with a volume 3 guy is there will also be plenty of games where the shot is falling, and he certainly had plenty of those.

My point is we know he is a real good 3 point shooter, but we don't know much about the other parts of his game. If his shot isn't falling, what do we have with him out there? We certainly have more than enough depth where we don't need him out there for 40 minutes. If he shows enough defensively and shows he can add things elsewhere when his shot is not falling, and he proves he deserves to start, great, let's start him and play him a ton of minutes. But, I guess I am far from ready to call him a 40 minute guy.

 

[fan2011]

Let me start by again saying I am more than thrilled with the Roche pick up. Most should know by now how important I think the 3 point shot is, so I get wanting to keep him on the floor a lot. But, we still need to see him defensively. And, there will likely be a good amount of games where his 3s are not falling. His final 8 games last year, he was 17-61 from 3 (27.8%). He only averaged 8 points a game during that stretch. Before that, he had games of 1-9, 2-8, 1-5, 1-5, and 1-4 scattered through the season. They lost all of them, and he only averaged 6 points a game in those 5 losses. I understand that pretty much happens to everyone, especially volume 3 shooters, and of course, the good news with a volume 3 guy is there will also be plenty of games where the shot is falling, and he certainly had plenty of those.

My point is we know he is a real good 3 point shooter, but we don't know much about the other parts of his game. If his shot isn't falling, what do we have with him out there? We certainly have more than enough depth where we don't need him out there for 40 minutes. If he shows enough defensively and shows he can add things elsewhere when his shot is not falling, and he proves he deserves to start, great, let's start him and play him a ton of minutes. But, I guess I am far from ready to call him a 40 minute guy.

My concern with Roche isn't his 3FG%, it is his usage rate at Citadel. It was low. Compared to our roster last year, Roche would have the 8th highest usage rate. If he is on the court due to his offense production he needs to be taking a lot more shots. If we see him as a Darien Brothers or Blake Francis type player he needs to be shooting 50% more shots per minute. The tough part is maintaining FG% with increased usage rate. If he is not taking more shots and maintaining similar efficiency a lot of his minutes are probably better spent with other players. If Roche provides more than just 3pt shooting maybe he demands more time on the court either way, not sure that is the case though.

Note: Quinn had a higher offensive rating at twice the usage rate of Roche last year according to kenpom.

 

[Eight Legger]

The bottom line is that we should rename the team the Richmond Roches. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

 

[urfan1]

I'm glad you kept it brief!

 

[Ferrum Spider]

Goose is the ultimate glue guy. He will start next year.

 

[SpiderDad75]

Let me start by again saying I am more than thrilled with the Roche pick up. Most should know by now how important I think the 3 point shot is, so I get wanting to keep him on the floor a lot. But, we still need to see him defensively. And, there will likely be a good amount of games where his 3s are not falling. His final 8 games last year, he was 17-61 from 3 (27.8%). He only averaged 8 points a game during that stretch. Before that, he had games of 1-9, 2-8, 1-5, 1-5, and 1-4 scattered through the season. They lost all of them, and he only averaged 6 points a game in those 5 losses. I understand that pretty much happens to everyone, especially volume 3 shooters, and of course, the good news with a volume 3 guy is there will also be plenty of games where the shot is falling, and he certainly had plenty of those.

My point is we know he is a real good 3 point shooter, but we don't know much about the other parts of his game. If his shot isn't falling, what do we have with him out there? We certainly have more than enough depth where we don't need him out there for 40 minutes. If he shows enough defensively and shows he can add things elsewhere when his shot is not falling, and he proves he deserves to start, great, let's start him and play him a ton of minutes. But, I guess I am far from ready to call him a 40 minute guy.

This is a great post, really fleshed out.

My concern with Roche isn't his 3FG%, it is his usage rate at Citadel. It was low. Compared to our roster last year, Roche would have the 8th highest usage rate. If he is on the court due to his offense production he needs to be taking a lot more shots. If we see him as a Darien Brothers or Blake Francis type player he needs to be shooting 50% more shots per minute. The tough part is maintaining FG% with increased usage rate. If he is not taking more shots and maintaining similar efficiency a lot of his minutes are probably better spent with other players. If Roche provides more than just 3pt shooting maybe he demands more time on the court either way, not sure that is the case though.

Note: Quinn had a higher offensive rating at twice the usage rate of Roche last year according to kenpom.

I don't know if he is anymore than just that...a 3pt shooter. I'm going to say now after watching some film that his 3pt ability is his best attribute. He is a sniper. But if you aren't beating people off the dribble or getting paint touches to create, as far as guards go you are a one trick pony. (I'm not saying he can't) I think with Dji and Jason you have the ability to create off the dribble, the bounce, or whatever, which would put Roche in a good spot to get off his jumper. After thinking about this more, for me now, TB is the only locked in starter. Not even Goose as it is now...for me. I think he would be the next best person to pencil in but don't think he's a lock. Dji and Jason will be our PGs for next season and both bring really good things to the table. I don't think bc Roche played 36 MPG means anthing at this point. I would say you are moving up a level to the A10 My guess also will be other teams at least the good ones are going to know his scouting report. Watching him play an entire game is the way to go instead of just looking at highlights or his stats, at least imo. I know alot on here always go to the stats but I like my eyes and the coaches at most schools know the stats but they also trust their eyes. This summer will be key for locking those spots down for everyone except TB. One thing is for sure...we have lots of minutes for new guys to claim and we are certainly in a better postion this off season than most thought we would be in...I think we win more than 8-10 😎🕷️🏀

 

[spiderman]

if he can't defend or get shots up in the A10, then he'll come off the bench or not even play.
but while Missouri, K State and Pitt aren't dominant by any means, they are in high major conferences and and play against high major athletes. their eyes told them Roche can play.

we saw the highlights. are we looking for negatives now that just aren't there? it's not like we only saw a few shots. he hit a hundered and freaking 10. didn't look like he had trouble getting shots off, or that he was sitting still wide open all day. he moves well and has a quick, high release.

yes, when any shooter isn't hitting it sucks. but on average he hit 40%. that's equivalent to 60% from 2. and he did it on high volume. I wouldn't necessarily trust 40% if he hit 16. but he hit 110.