Great elevation on his 3s. Quick release and shoots it in rhythm. Looks quick and I like the way he finishes at the basket. A lot to like with him.
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- Thread starter spider23
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Good call there is some resemblance to Kendall Anthony there
Interesting take, the tape I have seen - and stats mentioned in youtube videos - seem to indicate that Tyne is much more of a 3 pt threat at this time. Don't know how accurate that is, but both seem to have on ball and off ball capabilities. Again, concern with these two, and Hunt and King, they are all small. On the plus side, they both seem like they would have the ability to be disruptive and get steals.
yes, Tyne (like Anthony and Gilly) looks like a shooter in addition to his PG skills.
for a guy as highly rated as TSmith, I have very little idea about his game other than that Mooney said he could play 1 or 2 ... but that may have been a sales pitch since we had Nelson as a projected long term answer at the 1 at that time.
2 small guards has never concerned me. If you can play, you can play. Jacob and Blake were pretty awesome together.
Agree, I would rather have skill and impact than size. BUT, I really don't see Hunt being at the level of Blake. Could be wrong there, and I do think he will be effective for us, but those two were so good they could overcome shortcomings in the height department and on defense most of the time. I don't know what King's defense is like?
Love those Tyne highlights. For a small guy he elevates, both on his jumper and his drives. The last clip he basically flushes one down.
In those clips he went heavy on the right handed / right side finishes at the rim. Expected from HS player but will have to diversify against college bigs and better scouting.
With him, like all our guys, I hope the coaches are working on their 3s nonstop. UR needs all its guards/wings to be legit threats from 3.
In those clips he went heavy on the right handed / right side finishes at the rim. Expected from HS player but will have to diversify against college bigs and better scouting.
With him, like all our guys, I hope the coaches are working on their 3s nonstop. UR needs all its guards/wings to be legit threats from 3.
We need one more guy to step up and make it a three headed monster. Noyes? Bigs? Tanner? Tyne?
I am still betting on Tanner’s 14 for 14 per game from 3.
But Noyes will make SC Top 10 9 times per 7 games…
{I’m just extrapolating}
2 small guards can look good offensively but it does cause problems on the other end. that size differential at one guard spot gives a cleaner look to opposing SGs. and a potential rebounding disadvantage. and that 2 guard can't help inside as well as a Goose/Gonzo/KSmith sized defender at that spot.
Mooney has gone with 2 small starting guards a ton over his 18 years here. is it a coincidence we haven't danced a ton?
Anthony scored 1900 points as a 2 guard ... but didn't dance.
it's not just about putting your best 5 players on the floor. it's putting the best team of 5 players on the floor. heck, King and Tyne may end up our most talented guards. but that doesn't mean we're the best team we can be by playing them together.
I have so much evidence to counter this. We had one of our best defensive teams (54th in defensive efficiency) and overall teams ever in 2020 with Jacob playing 36.6 mpg and Blake 32.7. I just don't remember size ever being an issue with them, so that should really end any debate here. When do you think having them on the floor together caused problems defensively? In 2018, Jacob started with 6'5 Wojcik and 6'4 Goose. We finished 287 in defensive efficiency. The 2 years Jacob started with Blake, we finished 54 and 99.
Our best year with Anthony was when he played his most minutes, 36.5, in 2015, when we were 1st 4 out of the dance. Like 2020, we were very good defensively in 2015, allowing only 61.2 ppg and 52nd in defensive efficiency. By comparison, last year, we started a 6'4 guard who was very good defensively, and we allowed 67.8 ppg, and finished 117th in defensive efficiency. Something else you probably didn't realize with Anthony was his first 2 years, he started 7 total games and played 25.5 and 23.5 minutes a game. We finished 179 and 154 in defensive efficiency. His last 2 years, he started a total of 67 games, and played 31.2 and 36.5 mpg. We finished 52nd in defensive efficiency both of those years, including 2014 when he started with 6'1 Ced. It's just not accurate to blame our not dancing those years on Anthony's size.
Tall guards don't automatically make great defensive players. Usually when a guard gets beat, it is more of a defensive positioning and quickness issue than size issue. If you are quick and can stay in front of your guard, you can more than hold your own as a 6 foot guard, especially this day and age in college basketball, where so many teams have smaller guards playing together.
we were 339th in rebounding in 2015, playing against teams that weren't good rebounding teams themselves (257th). with a pretty talented offensive team that held opponents to 61.2 ppg. yet we lost 14 games.
we can blame Mooney for not crashing offensive boards, or blame big guys for not getting more, but small guards play a part.
we can blame Mooney for not crashing offensive boards, or blame big guys for not getting more, but small guards play a part.
I said this back when he played but Kendall was ALWAYS in the correct spot defensively. He wasn’t an issue on defense bc of what we ran which was the matchup at that point still. It’s guys being out of position and the blow bys off the dribble that always broke us down (leading to the Flying Dutchmen, along with little rim protection.)
In 2015, we started Kendall with guys who were 6'5, 6'7, 6'8, and 6'8. Are you really blaming Kendall for not getting more rebounds?
My Wilson comparison was more body type than game, cause I haven't seen Tynes play yet. Tynes looks very muscular and that is certainly not Gilly. Yeah, I sure hope he is much more of an offensive threat than Wilson.
Agree 100%. And, Kendall would also do just fine in straight man to man this day and age because of how quick he was, and because most teams we face have small guards, and very few, if any, post any guards up. Also, Quinn, or any big we play, doesn't have to just follow his guy around everywhere, so he can still be there to protect the lane. I remember last off season we heard Dji would post guys up. Never happened and I knew it wouldn't happen because defenses can easily counter that, and it's not like we were talking about feeding the ball to Carmelo Anthony at Syracuse here, when he was so good beating his guy down low. College basketball is rarely a one on one game anymore, and college guards need to be good at the 3, not at posting guys up. Even in our straight man to man defense, there is still a lot of team defense involved. Bottom line is we would be just fine starting 2 small guards if they are good defensively. Their size would be irrelevant if they are good and quick on that side of the ball.
Our system is the reason we suck at rebounding. We don't crash the boards by the design on the offensive end and defensively too many flying dutchman and overcorrecting often times leaves us out of good rebounding position. I don't really see it a function of having smaller guards, although that certainly could be seen as a compounding factor, because in rebounding size really does matter.
Yes, but my point was there was more than enough height out there for Kendall to not worry about rebounding. So, you are blaming Kendall and ShawnDre for rebounding stats, even when our style of play dictates we almost always will have bad rebounding stats?
Even if that wasn't our style, what, exactly, would you want our guards to do? Do you want all 5 of our guys crashing the boards and we can just give up a layup everytime if we don't get the offensive rebound? I just don't get how we can be 52nd in defensive efficiency, only give up 61.2 ppg, and you say 2 small guards was still a problem defensively that year.
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I guess not. I guess ShawnDre and Kendall were supposed to grab every rebound while those guys stayed back as protection against transition buckets?So not Davis, Taylor, Allen, & Cline?
We don't crash the boards, but we do prevent easy transition buckets. I have never had an issue with this. We are not alone playing this style, and the better you are at the defensive end, the more sense it makes to play this way. And, if you have mulitple 3 point guys out there offensively like we want and we should, I don't need or want them crashing every board out there. Also, it depends on your roster. If we had a bunch of big, muscular, rebounding athletes down low, then maybe you would want to crash the boards more, but I would not want that at the expense of offense and 3 point shooting. I think a lot of you exaggerate rebounding for us, and think that causes losses when it is other things like 3 point shooting or half court defense. Our rebounding usually is what it is when we win or lose, it's the other things that will define how well we do.
I'm much more concerned with defensive rebounding than offensive, but they all count. they all lead to us getting less shots.
for 25 mpg we had SDJ and Anthony on the floor together.
that's 40% of the team on the floor too small to rebound.
Anthony had 1.8 rebounds per game in 36.5 mpg.
SDJ had 1.1 rpg in 28.5 mpg.
if you're asking 3 guys on the floor to do all the rebounding, you better have Rodman as one of them. we didn't.
we had a good defensive team and a pretty good offensive team. we hit 34% from 3.
good defense and hitting 3's should work, but we got killed on both boards so we didn't get enough shots and lost 14 games. to me having 2 really small guards was a problem.
I'm CERTAINLY not saying SDJ and K0 weren't great guards for us. they absolutely were. I'm saying this was a talented team (though not deep) but a typically flawed lineup and it looks like we're heading in the same direction again this year ... but likely with less overall talent.
Did you seriously watch us play that year and say, gosh, our guards really need to rebound better? How many rebounds a game would you want our guards to average?? And, we did go 12-6 in the A-10 that year. Funny you have to go to guard rebounding and acting like we had a bad year to try to make your point.
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no, I watched that year and thought we lost 14 games despite amazing guard play, good defense, shooting 34% from 3, and a pretty talented front court. so what's missing?
it wasn't a bad year. it was one of our best years. and we still didn't dance.
if you think there's a better reason than rebounding for why that team lost 14 games, that's fine. I think it's really hard to win enough with 2 sub 6' guards playing together. and we've tried it a bunch of times.
I think we are not held to account to box out. Like, people who don't box out repeatedly aren't removed from the game. But people who turn the ball over once (maybe twice) are removed from the game. This is a change I would like to see.
So, if you think ShawnDre and Anthony didn't work together because of rebounding, I assume you must feel the same way about Jacob and Blake, who were our bottom 2 guys in rebounds per 40 minutes in 2020. Sure does seem like you are reaching here with this one. I guess I will ask again...how many rebounds a game do you want our guards to average?
By the way, our 34% 3 point percentage you keep bragging about (in this debate) was 192nd in the country that year, and we scored 66.1 ppg, 207th in the country. I don't think we were quite the offensive juggernaut you are claiming us to be that year. Anthony, ShawnDre and Tj shot well from 3, but we had too many other guys shoot way too many 3s when they weren't making them. Defensively, we held teams to 30.3% from 3, the 18th best 3 point defense in the country, and our opponents only averaged 4.7 3s a game, 10th best defense there in the country. Our quick guards had a lot to do with that. But, you get on here and continue to act like our 2 small guards were a problem defensively? And all you can use to debate all of my evidence screaming otherwise is a rebounding stat that really has nothing to do and should not have anything to do with our guards???
Sman coaching ShawnDre and Anthony: " Guys, great job defending the 3, keeping your guys in front of you, and hustling all around the top of the zone area. Great job helping us have one of our best defenses ever, but you both HAVE to find a way to do all of that, especially protect the 3 point shot 22 feet from the basket, but then run in and get those rebounds, because you know, we can't count on TJ, Terry, ANO, Deion, and Trey to get any boards. You guys HAVE to rebound better!!!! If we lose, it will be your fault for not getting enough defensive rebounds".
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you're right. 2 small guards will work great.
Maybe it will this year, and maybe it won't. It has in the past, and when it hasn't, I can't find evidence or any eye test that tells me we lost games because we had 2 small guards out there. You having to use defensive rebounds in 2015 to back up your thoughts tells me how very far apart we are with our opinions here.
you brought up 2015, not me.
fact is we haven't had a ton of team success with 2 small guards, even if those guards individually have had success ... with 19-20 being the exception. Gilyard and Francis actually helped on the boards a little. maybe King and Hunt will too.
fact is we haven't had a ton of team success with 2 small guards, even if those guards individually have had success ... with 19-20 being the exception. Gilyard and Francis actually helped on the boards a little. maybe King and Hunt will too.
Yes. I get coaches have success with different systems, etc. But what is the harm in having good rebounding teams? Why not emphasize rebounding in addition to the other facets of the game. I listened to Dutcher interview with Rothstein today. Refreshing to hear him excited and hyped for the season and keeping expectations high despite losing a lot this off season. And talking rebounding and rim protection. Nice change of pace to the recurring transition years we have.
It's a simple game. He who has the ball can score. He who does not can't. Why would you ever willingly concede the ball? Any system that does is nuts, IMHO.
I hear you, 23, but I think a lot of you are overrating the importance of the rebounding stat. I am not saying rebounds are not important, and, sure, we want to get every rebound we can, but there is a strategy to our style that dictates we will likely not have good rebounding stats. I am fine with this, I totally understand why we do it, we are from alone with style, and I get why other teams play like this. Also, I do think the type of players we get and the offense we run does not fit with a big, athletic inside rebounding type team. So, we try to recruit to our style of play. Some of you are not fine with this, and I get that, because not everyone will agree with what style of play they want their team to have, but do you realize:
In 2010 and 2011, we were 286th and 269th in rebounding and we won 26 and 29 games those years.
In 2015, we went 12-6 in the A-10 and were 339th in rebounding.
In 2017, we went 13-5 in the A-10 and were 340th in rebounding.
In 2020, we went 14-4 and 24-7 and finished 213th in rebounding.
In 2022, we won 24 games, the A-10 tourney and an NCAA game and finished 310th in rebounding.
I just don't think it is as important as some of you are making it, and like my 2 small guards opinion, I don't think rebounding is why we lose games.
