FIRE MOONEY
- Thread starter SpiderRick
- Start date
I go to every game and watch every road game that is televised. Definitely see both TA and TJ getting double-teamed when they are are in the paint or the low block. It's not universal every time out nor is necessarily that unique to them versus how many other teams defend when the ball goes down low to bigs.
I'm in the sman/SFspidur camp here. I think we are probably better off with MW starting but I don't think it's a massive gap. Not narrow, but not massive.
I'm in the sman/SFspidur camp here. I think we are probably better off with MW starting but I don't think it's a massive gap. Not narrow, but not massive.
MrT. I agree it's not a huge gap in "overall" talent between the two, but it does seem that burden is lifted from the main 3 as the floor opens up and SDJ can't be double teamed.
In the four games I mentioned if it weren't for wood going off we likely would not have had great offensive production. The Fordham game looked very much like the RI and TT games. We have had some great offensive games but also some stinkers, and please don't just discount that w final score totals. U know the games if you watched them.
MW played 30 minutes against VCU. if he started, he'd play about 30 minutes as well.
I think he should start next game, too, but either way he'll play a lot. and starting or not starting won't be the reason he scores or doesn't. if teams leave him open, he'll hit shots. if they defend him like VCU did, he'll struggle.
I think he should start next game, too, but either way he'll play a lot. and starting or not starting won't be the reason he scores or doesn't. if teams leave him open, he'll hit shots. if they defend him like VCU did, he'll struggle.
I think u are right. Wood has been getting more time and some nights he's on and some not so much. We are all looking for some other reason we have 7 losses than what is the most glaring, that we have a coach that either is incapable or just unwilling to make defensive adjustments. All of our players I'm sure have some experience playing a zone from hs/pal etc. how can we lose by trying something different on even just a few possessions? Vcu was scoring at will. Just one or two stops and we win. But we never threw a different scheme at them. This is why so many here are frustrated w CM.
Most glaring is the fact that for the past two years, and 4 of the past 6, we have kept opponents to shooting ~30% from the 3pt line. This year that number is 38%, or 46% if you only count conference games. If VCU doesn't shoot 38% from 3 we win, if Saint Joe's doesn't shoot 52% from 3 we win, if URI doesn't shoot 72% from 3 we win. If this team could play the defense Mooney designed and defend the 3pt line we would likely have 3 or 4 more wins and be sitting very pretty right now. Is it Mooney's fault for being stubborn, he has seen his defense work spectacularly and consistently against the three in the past. This group can't execute the defense for some reason, maybe they are too focused on rebounding (which is by far the best it has ever been under Mooney).
Last edited:
After years of playing us, coaches have figured out how to beat the nuances of our never changing defense. In the early years, it was a novelty; now - not so much so.
Vcu and other teams have also been able to take it to the rim with very little resistance. For four years now there have been many games where it's obvious the opposition has found a way to break down our D and a change of D for even a short period of time might stop the flow, but nothing, ever, and we lose games we could have won. It's frustrating to watch especially for those of us who have watched a lot of cbb.
I have a really hard time buying this. They didn't figure it out after 9 years or 10 years, but all the sudden every team knows how to pick apart our defense in Mooney's 11th year? Even teams we never played before? It doesn't make sense.
You don't have to buy it. Nobody's asking you to. It's an evolutionary thing that doesn't need to be supported by metrics. A couple good eyes and watching what has evolved over time makes the obvious seem pretty easy to pick up on.
Bratislava is also a beautiful city...but I prefer Kosice,,,,,two things , Coach always says Taylor played a great game he is always defending him i dont know why.. and when you watch post game news conference Coach body language touching ear and touching jaw when answeringcertain questions is a meaning for those of us who know these things. ... .. he tires of some questions and just says what investigator wanted to hear is all... he is very annoyed at everhyone.
How many other coaches in D1 do u think NEVER change D in game? Even boeheim changes his once in a while. But whatever,
Would concur with 2011, our D has consistently been very good year to year. Have conference opponents become more familiar with it? Sure, but that doesn't translate to picking it apart.
So what's different this Year? Probable reasons either individually or jointly include personnel losses (K0, ANO), personnel deficiencies (pick anyone), rule changes (shot clock, freedom of movement), opposition improvement or <insert alternative here>.
I suspect it's mostly the first two. But not much of a way to validate that.
So what's different this Year? Probable reasons either individually or jointly include personnel losses (K0, ANO), personnel deficiencies (pick anyone), rule changes (shot clock, freedom of movement), opposition improvement or <insert alternative here>.
I suspect it's mostly the first two. But not much of a way to validate that.
He does change D periodically, just not for extended periods of time. Give the guy some credit. I also expect there are a lot of coaches who rely predominantly on their base D.
He does? I don't remember seeing it change all year, but then I haven't seen every minute of every game. What has it changed to, a straight man or some other type of zone? Honestly, the way we defend this year, I think what we're doing is better than a straight man, which I fear would expose our deficiencies even more. I could be wrong though.
I don't know what you mean by evolutionary, but to me it implies a steady process. The demise of our defense was not steady at all, in fact it was quite the opposite. Here are our
defensive efficiency rankings over Mooney's career:
138
295
80
170
36
59
173
160
48
46
246
138
295
80
170
36
59
173
160
48
46
246
There is nothing steady or evolutionary about it. Last year was our second best defensive year under Mooney. This year is essentially our worst.
I don't recall it either. Can you give a specific example of when he did at a critical time of a game?
I would think that someone who lives & dies by #'s would understand that trends and what evolve don't follow absolute linear patterns. They are more like ebbs & flows. You want to throw "efficiency ratings"...please correlate these to performance, NCAA bids, and conference championships, etc.
In the Fordham game we went to a 2-3 zone in the second half. It was not for an extended period of time, maybe five clock minutes. One recent example.
BTW, im not arguing that there isn't a problem here, I just think that blanket statements that he/we "never" or "always" do something oversimplify our current situation.
Is it that hard to understand that in a head to head matchup the more efficient team was the one that scored more points? Here is the percent chance of making the NCAAs based on efficiency ratings for the past 5 years:
Top 10: 100%
11-20: 100%
21-30: 92%
31-40: 90%
41-50: 66%
70% of NCAA teams are in the top 50 most efficient teams, it is an incredible predictor of who will make the NCAAs. Consider ~50% of teams are auto-bids. Essentially all at large bids are given to the top 50 most efficient teams, because those are the best teams.
Last edited:
I am not sure what you mean. Offensive and defensive efficiency? When we went to the NCAAs our defensive efficiency ranks were 36 and 59, we ranked in the top 50 in overall efficiency both years. Having a better defensive efficiency means you have a better defense and are more likely to make the tournament.
Last edited:
We also occasionally will pick up the defensive pressure in the full court or 3/4 court, then drop back into the base D. I'd like to see us do this more but can't/won't with only playing 7 guys. We did get a few stops in the St Joes game with this (10 sec violation late as an example).
I feel any variation to make the other team think a bit would be welcome (and we ain't changing philosophy) since what we are doing isn't working. Heck, throw Jesse out there for 10 minutes a game to just pressure the other PG. we are really good jumping into passing lanes for steals, but the other team being real comfortable and just screening until a good match up negates this.
I feel any variation to make the other team think a bit would be welcome (and we ain't changing philosophy) since what we are doing isn't working. Heck, throw Jesse out there for 10 minutes a game to just pressure the other PG. we are really good jumping into passing lanes for steals, but the other team being real comfortable and just screening until a good match up negates this.
I think it helped if only to give them a different look, and it at least slowed down how often they were going to Rhoomes, although when he Got the ball he was still scoring easily.
I'm with you that we need to throw some other stuff out there, I suspect it really cannot hurt unless the opportunity cost of not committing to the base D means we never really improve it.
I'm with you that we need to throw some other stuff out there, I suspect it really cannot hurt unless the opportunity cost of not committing to the base D means we never really improve it.
Towards the end of the VCU game we went to what looked like a packed in 2-3. I have seen this several times recently and it is effective. Problem comes when a team is patient enough to let their penetrator dribble until some one gives enough room for a drive. Usually this happens when a big gets in the lane and just moves out one of our guys.
Believe it or not, recently TJ has been doing the best job of matching up physically in these situations.
Believe it or not, recently TJ has been doing the best job of matching up physically in these situations.
TJ has improved a lot on D I think. Moving better to position himself. Fouled out in OT against RPI and I thought two of the calls were bogus, especially his last one.
The last call on TJ was suspect. Mo-Allie was putting his big paw right in TJ's face and then TJ gets the foul. Now, in fairness, TJ was trying to coax that call out of the official as he does from time to time and was exaggerating contact in my opinion. I don't see how in anyway that was a foul on TJ though, at best that is a no call, especially because VCU hadn't even brought the ball over the mid court when the foul was called.
There were a couple bad calls in my opinion that game (a couple traveling calls on us in the first half, the non-traveling call on Lewis at the halftime shot), as CM explained in the call-in show, the officials job is to count players on the court before inbounding the ball, so there lack of ability to do that and then call a technical on us for not doing it.
I'm not blaming the officials for the loss, you have to play through that stuff, but is it too much to ask to for a just a clean fairly called game.
There were a couple bad calls in my opinion that game (a couple traveling calls on us in the first half, the non-traveling call on Lewis at the halftime shot), as CM explained in the call-in show, the officials job is to count players on the court before inbounding the ball, so there lack of ability to do that and then call a technical on us for not doing it.
I'm not blaming the officials for the loss, you have to play through that stuff, but is it too much to ask to for a just a clean fairly called game.
I was just about to post this, and I'm surprised it took this long for someone to mention it. I thought it was obvious when Richmond went to the 2-3.
I couldn't watch the game, so I was listening to Bob and Greg. It sounded like there was a pretty egregious play right in front of the announcer table where the ball clearly went off the leg of the VCU guy, but they gave them the ball. We had just scored and were up two, if I recall correctly, in regulation with very little time left.
Unless CM has a few sub .500 seasons in a row I doubt he will be let go before the contract ends. Everything about him as an representative of UR is excellent except the fact his Spiders aren't winning enough games to make the NCAA tourney more often.
I look at him as the Philly fans version of Andy Reid:
1) Reid was Eagles coach for what 13-14 years and won a lot of games and made the playoffs often but just didn't win enough games that most fans thought should have been Ws especially during the playoffs. Finally was let go after a few sub .500 seasons in a row with no playoff appearances.
2) For years fans would always complain about Reid's pass happy philosophy with little attention to creating an adequate rushing offense when during game situations most people thought it was needed. Kind of stubborn possibly along the lines of CM with sticking to one defense and also funny but I recall a Reid rule where a player coming off an injury goes back in the starting lineup even if his sub was playing better. Taylor starting again example.
3) As good as Reid was in preparation of his team for game day, his game/time management with the Eagles was below average during his tenure in Philly and if you saw the end of this past weekend's playoff against NE you'll see it has continued. CM's ability to game manage adequately has been discussed here frequently.
Adjustment(s) CM would be nice. Any kind would be fine, and if not good, no flack from me. Just try again something else. I like personally everything about CM and really root for him to continue UR as a consistent winning team but just hope he can get over the hump that propels his teams to more frequent NCAA tourney bids. That's what we all know will make everyone here happy.
I look at him as the Philly fans version of Andy Reid:
1) Reid was Eagles coach for what 13-14 years and won a lot of games and made the playoffs often but just didn't win enough games that most fans thought should have been Ws especially during the playoffs. Finally was let go after a few sub .500 seasons in a row with no playoff appearances.
2) For years fans would always complain about Reid's pass happy philosophy with little attention to creating an adequate rushing offense when during game situations most people thought it was needed. Kind of stubborn possibly along the lines of CM with sticking to one defense and also funny but I recall a Reid rule where a player coming off an injury goes back in the starting lineup even if his sub was playing better. Taylor starting again example.
3) As good as Reid was in preparation of his team for game day, his game/time management with the Eagles was below average during his tenure in Philly and if you saw the end of this past weekend's playoff against NE you'll see it has continued. CM's ability to game manage adequately has been discussed here frequently.
Adjustment(s) CM would be nice. Any kind would be fine, and if not good, no flack from me. Just try again something else. I like personally everything about CM and really root for him to continue UR as a consistent winning team but just hope he can get over the hump that propels his teams to more frequent NCAA tourney bids. That's what we all know will make everyone here happy.
I'm glad Kansas City got a taste of Andy Reid clock's management. He also was infamous for being the worst replay challenger as well. I don't know how many times he challenged the spot of the ball and I think he lost everyone. Can't teach an old dog new tricks.
You wish both of them would recognize their fatal flaw and either address it or someone who is capable of addressing it for them. On the other hand, be careful what you wish for, because you may get rid of the guy who is good but unable to take you over the hump and hire Chip Kelly in his stead.
You wish both of them would recognize their fatal flaw and either address it or someone who is capable of addressing it for them. On the other hand, be careful what you wish for, because you may get rid of the guy who is good but unable to take you over the hump and hire Chip Kelly in his stead.
How is achievement measured? What are the evaluation criteria? How do administrators and the fans define success?
No 2 people probably see it the same. I guess one question that can be raised is how important is your stated "exception" viewed? IMHO making the NCAA tournament more often would be a weighted criteria of performance. Other criteria would include winning the conference regular season championship and conference tournament.
That's an enormous except.
I was wondering if anyone else had picked up on Mooney's movements. I too am a student of nonverbal communication.
I think this season is all new thinkning for Coach. Team scores budefense is bad. He plays starters all the time thinks it will help them get better for defense. Maybe. I think they just become more tired. I think Jesse shows good passing and understanding of this game So maybe Wood from the bench is OK. So once again we play for end of season tournament but will need one more player to have more minutes. I think it is Jesse. Let think his defense can not be bad becasue we already have bad defense, I think it is to rest legs for the games Coach wants to only do 6 players because we know it will happen more in future. Taylor needs to drive to basket. If he is open for the 3 he is open to drive to basket. He can do 3dribbles and elevate easy. n pproblem i think
Jesse looks good on offense, but he is out of position a lot on defense. There have been multiple instances where he has looked lost and left people wide open. He has even run into his own teammates once or twice. I think with more time he will settle down and be a good defender, but Mooney doesn't trust him yet. He has shown he can score, he shoots well from 3 and can make layups, the defense just isn't there yet.
That being said, playing the bench more could have some positive impacts on defense. First off, our players will be less tired and able to play harder. Secondly, since we are playing some players for large portions of the game they must keep their fouls per minute very, very low in order to not foul out. This means they can't take risks on defense and pick up fouls. Our defense could be softer than normal due to players are trying to stay out of foul trouble. By putting more of the bench in and allowing them to pick up fouls we may be able to allow all of our players to play tougher defense without worrying as much about fouling.
Last edited:
