We have a good class coming in and certainly an opportunity for immediate play for Wesson in a high level conference could still be enticing.
Andre Wesson - 2016 Offer
- Thread starter SFspidur
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You are projecting logic on a 17 year old. Probably an exercise in futility.
Right, unless OSU offers, or actively does something that doesn't involve the brother, it isn't over. But is on hold...
This is our bizarro thread, where Ulla is a defeatist and the rest of us are trying to convince him things aren't so bad.
I'm trying to sort through what OSU's angle is. Do they not have a scholarship to offer? I'd think if they were that serious about him by now, they'd have offered...
Exactly, hope Andre realizes that he is Thad's backup plan. Go to a school where you are wanted
I would love to see us obtain a commitment from Andre.
However, based on my observations as to how we fare when we seek a highly visible target who also has interest from schools in conferences ranked higher than the A10, my conclusion is that we do not have much of a chance. So reluctantly, I am writing off the notion that Andre will become a Spider.
Should I be wrong and should he commit to become a Spider, no one will be happier than I. But it's just not worth the likely disappointment and heartbreak to carry such a high expectation of signing this young man. I wish it weren't so, but I look at AW and all the things that we thought we had going in our favor and that pointed to the likelihood that he would sign with us, and then he signs with Nebraska...Nebraska of all places. For me, it was major disappointment, major heartbreak. His signing with Nebraska was when I first began to realize that it was true that what many others on this board have said all along about the overwhelming likelihood that when offered, most all recruits commit to schools in higher ranked conferences and higher visibility, and such is the rule almost all of the time. I realize that there may be a few exceptions to the rule, and I would love to see those exceptions appropriately pointed out. I am pretty sure that at least two of our incoming class and one of commitments for 2017 are exceptions, but not really anyone on the current team. BTW, though I question his judgment, I harbor no resentment as to AW's decision, and I wish him nothing but the best.
It is my recollection that a year or two before the AW decision to attend Nebraska there were a few on this board who posted that CM believed that if he was able to get a recruit on campus there would be a better than ninety percent likelihood that we could sign that recruit. I assume others on this board might remember what was said more specifically, or may be able to persuade me that no such statement was made. Whatever. I remember a statement or two along that line and it seems to me that the statement was made three or four years ago and was posted on this board. Obviously, such a view has proven not to be accurate.
Over the last few years we have seen that having a highly regarded recruit on campus does not give us anywhere near that high of a signing rate, next year's class excepted. I don't know if it is because this staff cannot recruit as well as the staff at the time of the statement or that what was said was either untrue or the result of an inflated perception of what we could do. Or maybe we just got slack. I do remember feeling elated at the time I read that statement that we were on the verge of becoming a program which would possibly make it to the elite eight or even go deeper in the tournament. Though I have expressed my concerns, I carried such expectations until this year because like many others I thought pre Ano and Josh leaving that we were surely headed back to the NCAA tournament. If I were smarter, I probably would have tempered my expectations last year, but I didn’t. And while It may sound ironic, and I may seem overly optimistic, and in spite of all that I have said, I still believe that CM is the man to bring us back up from where we have fallen. I have confidence that he will, but no sooner than at the very least two, but more likely three, years from now.
I cannot help but believe that CM and many others in the AD are aware of the numerous negative comments and complaints about the state of the program as set forth on this board in several threads five or six pages long, and I believe that the result of such comments and complaints might constitute a substantial part of the renewed impetus which will be required.
I wish that someone with better persuasion skills than I possess could sit down with Andre and convince him that Richmond is the right place for him because I genuinely believe that it is. That said, it is not what I believe that is important; it is what Andre believes. And I am going to place my money with those who believe that Andre will end up elsewhere.
However, based on my observations as to how we fare when we seek a highly visible target who also has interest from schools in conferences ranked higher than the A10, my conclusion is that we do not have much of a chance. So reluctantly, I am writing off the notion that Andre will become a Spider.
Should I be wrong and should he commit to become a Spider, no one will be happier than I. But it's just not worth the likely disappointment and heartbreak to carry such a high expectation of signing this young man. I wish it weren't so, but I look at AW and all the things that we thought we had going in our favor and that pointed to the likelihood that he would sign with us, and then he signs with Nebraska...Nebraska of all places. For me, it was major disappointment, major heartbreak. His signing with Nebraska was when I first began to realize that it was true that what many others on this board have said all along about the overwhelming likelihood that when offered, most all recruits commit to schools in higher ranked conferences and higher visibility, and such is the rule almost all of the time. I realize that there may be a few exceptions to the rule, and I would love to see those exceptions appropriately pointed out. I am pretty sure that at least two of our incoming class and one of commitments for 2017 are exceptions, but not really anyone on the current team. BTW, though I question his judgment, I harbor no resentment as to AW's decision, and I wish him nothing but the best.
It is my recollection that a year or two before the AW decision to attend Nebraska there were a few on this board who posted that CM believed that if he was able to get a recruit on campus there would be a better than ninety percent likelihood that we could sign that recruit. I assume others on this board might remember what was said more specifically, or may be able to persuade me that no such statement was made. Whatever. I remember a statement or two along that line and it seems to me that the statement was made three or four years ago and was posted on this board. Obviously, such a view has proven not to be accurate.
Over the last few years we have seen that having a highly regarded recruit on campus does not give us anywhere near that high of a signing rate, next year's class excepted. I don't know if it is because this staff cannot recruit as well as the staff at the time of the statement or that what was said was either untrue or the result of an inflated perception of what we could do. Or maybe we just got slack. I do remember feeling elated at the time I read that statement that we were on the verge of becoming a program which would possibly make it to the elite eight or even go deeper in the tournament. Though I have expressed my concerns, I carried such expectations until this year because like many others I thought pre Ano and Josh leaving that we were surely headed back to the NCAA tournament. If I were smarter, I probably would have tempered my expectations last year, but I didn’t. And while It may sound ironic, and I may seem overly optimistic, and in spite of all that I have said, I still believe that CM is the man to bring us back up from where we have fallen. I have confidence that he will, but no sooner than at the very least two, but more likely three, years from now.
I cannot help but believe that CM and many others in the AD are aware of the numerous negative comments and complaints about the state of the program as set forth on this board in several threads five or six pages long, and I believe that the result of such comments and complaints might constitute a substantial part of the renewed impetus which will be required.
I wish that someone with better persuasion skills than I possess could sit down with Andre and convince him that Richmond is the right place for him because I genuinely believe that it is. That said, it is not what I believe that is important; it is what Andre believes. And I am going to place my money with those who believe that Andre will end up elsewhere.
Thanks. I knew that. I just didn't express myself clearly.
I was active on this board when he chose both Kansas out of high school to our great disappointment, and when he transferred to Nebraska after two years of mostly sitting the bench at Kansas, also to our great disappointment.
We twice had high expectations. He twice rejected our offers.
I also followed things concerning AW very closely because he attended my high school.
BTW, I noticed that he had a 35 point game for Nebraska last week or the week before.
I think OSU's angle is to try to wait things out and see who else is potentially available. If they can do better than Andre, they will. If not, they may offer him their one remaining scholarship. Or possibly they have told him to sit tight because they know that one or more of their current players will be transferring out and opening up another scholarship that they could then offer him. (Still seems like they would make him the offer if they knew that at this point, but perhaps since they KNOW he would accept it right away, that's a risk they can't afford to take, in case the transfer doesn't happen.)
I also wonder if they are worried about losing the commitment of his younger brother somehow if they don't bring him into the mix too? Seems unlikely, but who knows.
I agree it's a longshot for us, but if he's this strong a player, he could certainly come here and fill a void for us immediately next year and play a lot of meaningful minutes, as opposed to going there and sitting the bench for a couple years.
I also wonder if they are worried about losing the commitment of his younger brother somehow if they don't bring him into the mix too? Seems unlikely, but who knows.
I agree it's a longshot for us, but if he's this strong a player, he could certainly come here and fill a void for us immediately next year and play a lot of meaningful minutes, as opposed to going there and sitting the bench for a couple years.
no kid worth his weight being recruited by an OSU type team thinks he won't make it at that team. maybe not day one, but I'm sure he believes he'll be starting there junior year. and he may be right. none of us know.
I hate when we say he'd be better off here because he isn't good enough to make it there. maybe he's plenty good. that's why we want him.
I hate when we say he'd be better off here because he isn't good enough to make it there. maybe he's plenty good. that's why we want him.
I'm not saying he's not good enough to make it there, I'm just saying that he has a pretty clear path to playing big minutes right away for us, and that path is a lot more crowded at OSU. I'm sure he is supremely confident in his abilities, as he should be, but it's obvious that OSU overall has more talented players – specifically at his position – than we do. So the odds of him playing more minutes sooner for us is similarly obvious.
that's fine, but every SoCon team can say that about our recruits too. why go to UR where you might not get time? come here and be a star. it's the same thing. asking a player to play down where he'll do better against lesser competition.
I think it's more like, "You can be a star there in 2-3 years or a star here next year." Stars will be stars anywhere.
But to some extent, yes, we have to hang our hat on that type of argument. We are who we are – a mid-pack A-10 program that hasn't made the NCAAs in 5 years. How many times do you think we will win head-to-head recruiting battles with a Big 10 school if we tell a kid, 'Hey, your odds of playing for us right away are no better than they would be at Ohio State?' He's picking Ohio State 100 times out of 100 in that scenario.
At least in my scenario, we are presenting an option that makes us unique in some way.
I posted this previously. There are six players already at OSU or committed there who play the 3/4 spots. Andre is listed as a 3 but I think we project him as a 4 here (that could be a bad assumption and isn't my assumption, others have posted it). Regardless, I would concur with 8legger that his path to play here is less crowded than at OSU, so I think we have more to offer immediately, but that may not mean a hill of beans if he's set on a P5 path.
if you could be a star at OSU in 2-3 year, or a star at UR now ... what would you do? lol.
come on! it's OSU. playing in front of everybody. playing for a chance at a national title. playing Michigan, Indiana, Maryland, Michigan St, etc ...
the argument is ridiculous. you choose UR if OSU doesn't really want you. if they offer, of course you go. unless you don't believe you can play there.
you go to the highest offer that really wants you. just like a kid chooses UR over Wofford. we'd freak if we lost a guy we wanted to Wofford!
by the way, that reminds me of an article I don't think was posted here. I knew Sherod and Buckingham fell into the "special situation" category of location which helped us land them. I didn't know Golden really always wanted to play for Richmond (or VCU).
http://www.nvdaily.com/sports/2015/10/golden-commits-to-playing-basketball-at-richmond/
"I always told them if Richmond or VCU ever started recruiting me, that’s where I would want to go just so I could go back to the city of Richmond.”
come on! it's OSU. playing in front of everybody. playing for a chance at a national title. playing Michigan, Indiana, Maryland, Michigan St, etc ...
the argument is ridiculous. you choose UR if OSU doesn't really want you. if they offer, of course you go. unless you don't believe you can play there.
you go to the highest offer that really wants you. just like a kid chooses UR over Wofford. we'd freak if we lost a guy we wanted to Wofford!
by the way, that reminds me of an article I don't think was posted here. I knew Sherod and Buckingham fell into the "special situation" category of location which helped us land them. I didn't know Golden really always wanted to play for Richmond (or VCU).
http://www.nvdaily.com/sports/2015/10/golden-commits-to-playing-basketball-at-richmond/
"I always told them if Richmond or VCU ever started recruiting me, that’s where I would want to go just so I could go back to the city of Richmond.”
Should be in the Golden thread, but this is my favorite quote of Grant:
“Honestly, probably the selling point for me was when I did go down there and visit, just hanging out with the guys,” Golden said. “The guys are awesome, probably the best group of guys that I have been around on all my visits. That was really the selling point for me. I knew those were some guys that I would want to play my next four years of basketball with. That’s what I wanted to do.”
“Honestly, probably the selling point for me was when I did go down there and visit, just hanging out with the guys,” Golden said. “The guys are awesome, probably the best group of guys that I have been around on all my visits. That was really the selling point for me. I knew those were some guys that I would want to play my next four years of basketball with. That’s what I wanted to do.”
I think you've now come full circle on your argument! I'm not suggesting that if OSU offers him tomorrow that we are going to get him anyway. I think I've even said the opposite. We all know that if he gets an offer from the school where his dad played and his brother is committed, he's going there. I'm just saying that what we have to offer that they don't is more immediate playing time, and that would be my pitch to him (among other things) if I were the one doing the recruiting.
You said originally that you hate the argument that someone should come here because he can't make it at a higher level or because he's going to sit the bench there for a few years, but then you say that we can't compete with OSU straight up for him, so which is it? I think we all agree that we can't compete with them in this case, but as long as we're going to try, these are the arguments I would make to him. Otherwise we should just pull the offer and move along.
If not truly interested in AW, osu still has to play defense, and do everything they can to keep other big 10 schools at bay, protecting home state turf and the commit from his younger brother.
I'm not sure what I said that's confusing you.
we're not recruiting against OSU. there's no selling point that you'll get time here early and not there. we can't guarantee time here. how could we? which freshmen power guys do we point to and say that's what you can expect freshman year? all we can say is we have a hole and you'll have a change to earn it. our recruiting of AW (or anyone else) is all about us and ABS0LUTELY NOTHING ABOUT OSU. this is what we have, the coaching staff, the teammates you'll play with and live with for 4 years, the facilities, the program, the academics, etc...
that's the end of the story. we want to show that we're the best place for him AT OUR LEVEL. if OSU or another strong P5 team offers and shows the required love ... it's over. you go to your highest fit. end of story. this isn't confusing.
what I said I hate is the fan argument that a guy should come to us because he's not good enough to play at a higher level. my point being, programs at a level below us can say the same thing about everyone we recruit. you know, why fight for playing time at UR when you can star here at Elon?
Well, part of recruiting sometimes IS convincing a kid that he will have more of an opportunity to play at your school than at another school. If you don't think that's a common pitch being made by all schools (yes, even Elon), then I think you're mistaken. A kid Dominaus maybe could have gone somewhere like Elon and gotten some minutes this year and even more next year. He opted to come here, likely knowing that he was going to sit the bench. That may have been the right choice for him, or maybe not.
Conversely, I bet Elon has a kid or two that had better offers but who chose to go there in part because of playing time. That's just reality. As it specifically relates to Wesson, given the family ties to OSU, I think he would go there to sit the bench if offered. But if we were competing with Northwestern or Rutgers for him, then I think we would have a great chance even though they are both Big Ten schools, too. Circumstances matter in every individual case, but I don't see anything wrong with making the argument (when applicable) that a kid is likely to play more here than at a "higher level" school.
Conversely, I bet Elon has a kid or two that had better offers but who chose to go there in part because of playing time. That's just reality. As it specifically relates to Wesson, given the family ties to OSU, I think he would go there to sit the bench if offered. But if we were competing with Northwestern or Rutgers for him, then I think we would have a great chance even though they are both Big Ten schools, too. Circumstances matter in every individual case, but I don't see anything wrong with making the argument (when applicable) that a kid is likely to play more here than at a "higher level" school.
I said strong p5 schools. Rutgers conference isn't enough to win recruiting battles for them. but kids almost always go to the highest offer that really wants them. yes, you can find a guy who has a better "offer". every school has offers out that they really don't continue to pursue. like Stafford Trueheart, I assume.
Yes it was, look at the players we robbed Hampden Sydney and Randolph Macon of.
I would so love to see him as a Spider. We may even get a game with OSU out of the deal
The Ohio Regional Tournament is Mar. 7-12, the State Tournament is Mar. 17-19. Not sure how Westerville South will fare, but it looks like Andre's season will be over no later than March 19th. I am hoping we will have a decision from Andre this month.
Likely our coaches will have a clear schedule and be able to attend in full force....
Wesson shows full offensive game
Marc Givler | Recruiting Analyst
The defending Columbus regional champs flexed their muscles in the second half on Saturday, as Westerville South survived a slow start to pull away from Hilliard Davidson, 58-30. Senior wing Andre Wesson poured in 14 points in the win.
"We started out real slow," said Wesson after the game. "Give Davidson credit, they are a good team, but we did not start out good at all. We knew we had to pick it up in the second half."
Wesson showed his all-around offensive game throughout the contest, getting points off the dribble, but also showing his improved range, stepping into a long-range three-point shot with confidence in the second half.
"I've worked on my shot all summer," he said. "I've tried to get my shot more consistent and I've put a lot of work into it so that's just some of the work coming out."
It was Wesson who put the exclamation point on the win in the fourth quarter, driving baseline and throwing down a two-handed dunk over a couple of Davidson defenders.
"I'll remember that for the rest of my life," he said. "That was a real good feeling."
South will now face Pickerington Central on Wednesday evening in the regional semi-finals. Central has already defeated South this year and after going all the way to the state championship game a year ago, the regular season has been more of a grind for Wesson and his teammates.
"Last year we were sort of a team on the rise and nobody really knew about us," Wesson explained. "This year coming in, we've always had an X on our back so going through the season it just got harder and harder."
Recruiting has taken a back seat for Wesson during this playoff run, but his improved play this winter has generated plenty of new college interest, including Ohio State. The Buckeyes have been out to see Wesson a handful of times this season and he has made a few unofficial visits in the last couple of months.
"I went to the Michigan State game," he said. "They've just been telling me the same stuff, to just keep doing what I'm doing. They said they'll talk to me (about an offer) after the season and to just go ahead and win a state championship."
Wesson's younger brother, Kaleb, is already committed to the Buckeyes and while joining him in Columbus would be an appealing option, he's keeping things close to the vest for now.
"It would mean a lot," he said of an Ohio State offer. "It's a Big Ten school and it would be nice (to get the offer) but I'm looking at all of the schools that are recruiting me."
Marc Givler | Recruiting Analyst
The defending Columbus regional champs flexed their muscles in the second half on Saturday, as Westerville South survived a slow start to pull away from Hilliard Davidson, 58-30. Senior wing Andre Wesson poured in 14 points in the win.
"We started out real slow," said Wesson after the game. "Give Davidson credit, they are a good team, but we did not start out good at all. We knew we had to pick it up in the second half."
Wesson showed his all-around offensive game throughout the contest, getting points off the dribble, but also showing his improved range, stepping into a long-range three-point shot with confidence in the second half.
"I've worked on my shot all summer," he said. "I've tried to get my shot more consistent and I've put a lot of work into it so that's just some of the work coming out."
It was Wesson who put the exclamation point on the win in the fourth quarter, driving baseline and throwing down a two-handed dunk over a couple of Davidson defenders.
"I'll remember that for the rest of my life," he said. "That was a real good feeling."
South will now face Pickerington Central on Wednesday evening in the regional semi-finals. Central has already defeated South this year and after going all the way to the state championship game a year ago, the regular season has been more of a grind for Wesson and his teammates.
"Last year we were sort of a team on the rise and nobody really knew about us," Wesson explained. "This year coming in, we've always had an X on our back so going through the season it just got harder and harder."
Recruiting has taken a back seat for Wesson during this playoff run, but his improved play this winter has generated plenty of new college interest, including Ohio State. The Buckeyes have been out to see Wesson a handful of times this season and he has made a few unofficial visits in the last couple of months.
"I went to the Michigan State game," he said. "They've just been telling me the same stuff, to just keep doing what I'm doing. They said they'll talk to me (about an offer) after the season and to just go ahead and win a state championship."
Wesson's younger brother, Kaleb, is already committed to the Buckeyes and while joining him in Columbus would be an appealing option, he's keeping things close to the vest for now.
"It would mean a lot," he said of an Ohio State offer. "It's a Big Ten school and it would be nice (to get the offer) but I'm looking at all of the schools that are recruiting me."
The sooner that Mr. Moderator deletes this thread, the sooner that some on here will be able to start recovering from the disappointment. In the spirit of the stat man, there is probably less than 1% chance that Wesson comes to Richmond at this point.
Thanks for consistently producing such interesting and insightful posts. This was a huge contribution to the thread.
+1. One of the few responses on this board which conveys its message without the need of an emoji for sarcasm.
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