UR Apparently Ready to Make Long Term Commitment to Mediocrity?
- Thread starter 9Legs
- Start date
I think the view is Grace didn't take the role of ANO, Cline or Golden, but that he took the role of Friendshuh, Abakah, and Madrid-Andrews and did it better than any of those three.
Well said. I think part of some fans view of Grace as our back-up center is skewed by our most recent experience with back-up centers. Going back before that though we had ANO backing up Garrett and Garrett and backing up Geriot.
In both cases, when the starter went out, you knew Garrett and ANO were going to make a big and significant (and in Garrett's case often a very exciting) impact on the game. You also knew that when Geriot graduated that Garrett was ready to step into be our starting center and similarily with Geriot.
No one can say that about Grace. He is a reserve. He has improved greatly since he got here but he lacks the tools to be a starting center in the A-10. So, he is a low end reserve. He can make some nice passes in our offense which is a plus, but he is not a scoring threat (largely cause he doesn't look to score) and any decent A-10 center is licking his chops to go up against him on defense.
No doubt Grace has improved. The offense definitely continues to flow with him in the game...he has good vision and understands where everyone is moving. He needs to be able to score more efficiently though.
He doesn't need to match Grant's scoring output as he can defer more to the other guys on the court, but he needs to make the shots he's taking. 31% from the field and 21% from three ain't good any way you slice it. And he's proven willing to take the open three...he took almost as many as Grant did this year in many fewer minutes, but he just can't hit them. 2-for-2 against Hampton, but other than that he made one three all season.
His defense has also improved, although he still fouls quite a bit and definitely has room for more improvement.
He doesn't need to match Grant's scoring output as he can defer more to the other guys on the court, but he needs to make the shots he's taking. 31% from the field and 21% from three ain't good any way you slice it. And he's proven willing to take the open three...he took almost as many as Grant did this year in many fewer minutes, but he just can't hit them. 2-for-2 against Hampton, but other than that he made one three all season.
His defense has also improved, although he still fouls quite a bit and definitely has room for more improvement.
Seems my views of Grace and Sal are a bit out of left field compared to the rest. Maybe it is judging them against previous guys that were better. Also some of it probably is them getting these minutes while so young. I think ideally they would have had someone in front of them and not had to play before they were “ready”. Can’t really blame them for that and today I see I was far too harsh on them.
Both were only Sophomores last season and I’m unfair in treating them like they are finished Senior products. They 100% did improve this past season and if they can continue that development I will feel much better with them in the game. Unfair of me to do that and I apologize.
Both were only Sophomores last season and I’m unfair in treating them like they are finished Senior products. They 100% did improve this past season and if they can continue that development I will feel much better with them in the game. Unfair of me to do that and I apologize.
Probably a better way to look at it - when Grant graduates, how much of a dropoff will there be if we replace him with either Sal or Grace? At this point - the drop off is considerable. But they do have a year ahead of them to get better - but as of right now, I would not say we are re-loading with Sal or Grace. BUT - like I said - they have whole year ahead of them to change that outlook. I don't expect them to exceed or match Grant at this point - but if the dropoff was minimal - you would feel good. But I think everyone can agree - if Grant were to go down with injury right now - the dropoff would be significant.
- Sportswriter has no sports to write about.
- Writes an article about nothing happening for 3 months
- Becomes SpiderNation's most active thread
- Devolves into our eleventeenth debate about the quality of our reserves
O/U on timing of his next article on the subject? i'll go with late August. Say 8/20.
I think most would agree at this time the drop off would likely be significant, but I hope one or both work hard and improve their game so the dorp is not so great. But are you really being fair comparing a second or third string to an all conference player?
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
everyone else seems to be getting bigger and we were ahead of the curve having Grant, if we don't have another skilled big ready to step into his role after he graduates it would set us back greatly
Also have Weir at the position but he is still unknown. U don’t expect them to exceed or match a likely top 5 all time UR scorer? And at the center spot no less. Generous.
if we’re expecting backups like that at every position we should be in ncaa and top 25ish virtually every year. Not going for first ncaa in a decade. if Mooney gets a consistently reloading team like that - & count me in favor of that strategy - he can name his price & get a lifetime contract instead of negotiating a super secret one during a health & higher ed crisis.
Like I said - I don't expect Sal or Grace to be all-league. But if we are going to be a good team that is consistently good - your going to have all-league players graduate, and what separates teams from rebuilding and reloading is that the teams that reload - they have guys behind those all league guys ready to step in right away. Maybe not all-league level right away, but they see potential for it. A good example would be Burton. Is he all-league material right now - nope. But we all see that potential in him and when everyone graduates after next season - I could see him stepping in and being an all-league player as a junior or def as a senior. When Grant graduates - I don't expect Grace or Sal to be all league players that first year - but will they work themselves into all league players the 2nd year without Grant? As of right now - I just don't see it. BUT - this coming season will shed more light on that.
And correct - Weir will be there as well. But the kid has yet to play a minute of college basketball so right now - we can't say anything about his potential at this point.
And correct - Weir will be there as well. But the kid has yet to play a minute of college basketball so right now - we can't say anything about his potential at this point.
what?? Those guys are juniors. They won't have a 2nd year without Grant. They'll be backups this year and then have 1 year remaining. That's another reason the program is probably expecting Weir to be the long term solution.
To be consistently good I agree. I want to be reloading. But Mooney has been here 16 years. We're trying to get back to the NCAA for first time in 10. Yet we got some expecting or calling for extensions out to 5-10 years. we got to crawl before we walk.
My mistake - I thought Sal or Grace had an extra year from a RS. Then - yes, we need Weir badly to be as good as we think. Next year he is a frosh - and this will be big decision for the coaching staff. Does he get playing time over Sal and Grace as you prepare for the future without Grant? Not saying significant minutes - maybe 5-10 a night. Or does Weir find himself buried on the bench and only playing at the end of games - and then the future is very uncertain in coming years. I think if Weir is the answer - he needs to play next year.
In general the refrain will be "well of course the best player will play the most minutes". However, Mooney has shown a love for both seniority and for risk averse back-ups. Grace is perhaps the most effective risk averse back-up in recent memory. Weir will have to overcome both to get minutes.
One would hope that Weir has the skill set to contribute next year, because while we don't really need him next year, he is essential for the year following.
One would hope that Weir has the skill set to contribute next year, because while we don't really need him next year, he is essential for the year following.
I agree 97 - but this has been a major criticism I have of Mooney and staff and that is developing players who don't see a lot of playing time - so when their time comes - they can step in an play. This happens in practice, where they get to play against the starters day in and day out, but also - they need some game experience. You can't expect a guy to play garbage minutes one year and then just cross your fingers and say "I hope he gets better over the summer and is ready". You need to play for NOW, but you also need to keep in the back of your head the future. So you got to "find" these guys minutes where they can get experience, but not hurt you in the short term. 5-10 minutes a night for Wier might be all it takes to get him some experience for next season - but that would also mean 5-10 minutes less for Grace and Sal.
