UR Apparently Ready to Make Long Term Commitment to Mediocrity?
- Thread starter 9Legs
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I think the assumption is that we would have made the tourney this year and you can’t not give a guy a raise or extension for doing that. With the pandemic and financial crisis - raise is probably off the table. But I would like to see him and extended to no more than 5 years. And it should be a rolling extension on the deal - meaning if the year is up to par - we will extend 1 more year essentially keeping it at 5. Of year is below expectations. Goes down to 4 and coach and everyone knows clock is ticking.
If it ever gets down to 2 - you move on.
If it ever gets down to 2 - you move on.
Mooney and Hardt are working well together. Should have danced in 2020, will definitely dance in 2021, recruiting is on upswing, the future is bright.
There were thousands of other ways the heading for this thread could have been worded without sounding churlish (I originally typed a different word but trying to keep it civil), and adding a question mark didn't really help the tone. And on the day we get a new commitment?
It’s about damn time we made a long-term commitment to this guy.
I think Covid might actually do us a favor here. Without it, Mooney gets his extention, but now Hardt gets possibly another year to see both how the team performs and how Mooney can recruit this big 5 man class he has.
If the team under performs this year and we miss out on most of our big name recruiting targets, this year is going to seem like ancient history. This keeps the pressure on Mooney and staff to continue to perform. I for one, feel they need that pressure.
If the team under performs this year and we miss out on most of our big name recruiting targets, this year is going to seem like ancient history. This keeps the pressure on Mooney and staff to continue to perform. I for one, feel they need that pressure.
COVID is probably only helping us with the raise. No way he doesn't get an extension this summer before the season starts next year. Likely under the same terms he has now.
And if I was Mooney - I would be very upset if a deal was not done this summer. It would be a slap in the face - especially since all season long Hardt said he would wait till season over - one of the best we have had under Mooney, and now have everyone returning - and he doesn't get extended? His agent will be busy this year if that is the case - cause I would expect we make the tourney next season and Mooney comes up again as a candidate for other jobs.
And if I was Mooney - I would be very upset if a deal was not done this summer. It would be a slap in the face - especially since all season long Hardt said he would wait till season over - one of the best we have had under Mooney, and now have everyone returning - and he doesn't get extended? His agent will be busy this year if that is the case - cause I would expect we make the tourney next season and Mooney comes up again as a candidate for other jobs.
Agree. Comfortable Mooney, Bad Mooney.
Coming off a very nice season, we look to be set up for a historic 20-21 season. Really like the '20 recruiting class. Following our last NCAA appearances, we were told about all of the advantages we should have recruiting, especially the charter flights. That did not really translate into great results. Now we have a shiny new practice facility, lofty preseason hype, and a friend of PQ on this board touting that the restrictions from the admin are loosened, we should expect the positive momentum to keep up.
"restrictions from the admin are loosened" Will the waiver of SAT and ACT scores help? No audit trail on marginal recruits to hurt the PR messaging of our Alma Mater's elite status??
Mooney got an 8 year hall pass. If he considers not getting an extension after 1 good year and during a pandemic, when millions of people are losing their jobs and universities are having unprecedented budget issues, a slap in the face, he needs to examine his priorities better.
This is a pathetic thread and I'm sorry many of you feel this way. The title alone is akin to the "click bait" and dare I say "fake news" we've grown accustomed to. To draw that conclusion after actually reading the article shows a shallowness that doesn't warrant the response I'm typing.
To the recruits and their parents that are reading this, the majority of the fan base is very excited about the momentum of the program in the last 18 months. Roll Spides.
To the recruits and their parents that are reading this, the majority of the fan base is very excited about the momentum of the program in the last 18 months. Roll Spides.
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I think covid does provide some cover right now. It at least gives him some talking point when asked about why he only has two years left if asked by recruits and their families.
I still expect he will get another two to keep him at a rolling four but this situation does play at least a bit to Hardts advantage.
I still expect he will get another two to keep him at a rolling four but this situation does play at least a bit to Hardts advantage.
The future is bright. The Spiders have strong character, they practice hard, they play hard, and they will overcome.
I think if you read the article in the RTD, it's quite clear that Mooney understands and appreciates these dynamics. Suggesting or positing otherwise, that he's somehow being selfish, is a slap in the face and those who suggest it need to examine their priorities better.
Argue the merits of the extension or not all day long. This comment was more about his character based on a false assumption, which I think needs to be challenged.
Mooney is not an idiot - he and his agent know to say the right things, and I would expect nothing less from any coach in the country right now. This is why I said - I think the COVID issue has removed any raise from the equation.
Look at it this way - if there was no COVID and we made the tourney last season and lets say lost in the first round - do you think the school would have rewarded Mooney with a raise AND extension? Not saying ti would have been an earth shattering raise or 10 year extension - but maybe in lines with an additional 100K for Mooney and maybe raises for the assistants and an extension to get him to 5 years I think would have been very reasonable.
Now we enter COVID and you think a coach who has to deal with a billboard calling for his firing, a new AD, and he has one of the greatest turnarounds from 1 season to the next - is just going to sit back and say - sure, no problem - I will continue to coach and recruit on a contract that says I will be gone in 2 years? NO WAY! Mooney understands the situation, which is why I think probably he and his agent are not pressing the issue and they said the right things.
But even Hardt's comments make it seem like they all know a deal will get done. I think right now the University is working on - how do we get students back on campus. Once that is figured out - I think Mooney's extension will be right behind that.
Look at it this way - if there was no COVID and we made the tourney last season and lets say lost in the first round - do you think the school would have rewarded Mooney with a raise AND extension? Not saying ti would have been an earth shattering raise or 10 year extension - but maybe in lines with an additional 100K for Mooney and maybe raises for the assistants and an extension to get him to 5 years I think would have been very reasonable.
Now we enter COVID and you think a coach who has to deal with a billboard calling for his firing, a new AD, and he has one of the greatest turnarounds from 1 season to the next - is just going to sit back and say - sure, no problem - I will continue to coach and recruit on a contract that says I will be gone in 2 years? NO WAY! Mooney understands the situation, which is why I think probably he and his agent are not pressing the issue and they said the right things.
But even Hardt's comments make it seem like they all know a deal will get done. I think right now the University is working on - how do we get students back on campus. Once that is figured out - I think Mooney's extension will be right behind that.
Agree. This will show us something about Hardt as an AD. There is less rush. given his contract status and coming off last season an extension is shocking to nobody. But...2011 is still staring us in face. Hey we were solidly IN as of that Friday b4 selection sunday, but those 3 days mean a LOT so there is some unknown.
We can have our best year ever in 2020-21 but what if we don't even make the tourney? We'll be kicking ourselves...again...over too long of an extension. Be conservative. Blame it on covid. I like our future too but our 1st recruit in this important class averaged 5 pts. He may turn out great but unproven. This team still has a lot to prove. Mooney still has lot to prove. I think they both will but lets not get over our skis here.
Hardt is self proclaimed Meat and Potatoes, granted that's partially his pretentiousness talking, but ok so where's the Beef. Really loved last year's team & season until it was cut short but even w that u can't be throwing out big time extensions to highest paid UR employee when next year would be the first in a decade.
We'll see what Hardt does but many reasons to play it conservative. Just glad SpiderTrap isn't negotiating. He always seems to be rolling over for the best terms. Heck he was giving out 3 year 300k total guaranteed contracts to Joe freaking Lunardi.
If you blame it on COVID and do nothing for Mooney, then you can't be upset at all if and when he leaves after next season IF UR makes the tourney. I think some people on this board would be okay with that - I would be 50/50 on it because he just did get back to back appearances (counting last year as appearance). And I think if a guy does that - you keep him, but don't give the 10 year deal, just give him 5 and within those 5 years - we should make it back to the dance 2 more times.
like CM or not, he's not on the hot seat and will sign an extension. that's good for this important recruiting class.
the article said 3-4 freshmen leaving room for a transfer. I'd go in looking to land 5 freshmen ... aiming high. if we can get 5 really good ones, no need to hold a spot.
the article said 3-4 freshmen leaving room for a transfer. I'd go in looking to land 5 freshmen ... aiming high. if we can get 5 really good ones, no need to hold a spot.
I agree with this Sman. Getting 5 really good freshmen recruits would be awesome but it is (as we know) incredibly hard to get 5 incoming freshmen all in the same year, and balancing the classes is usually the best way of doing things. Even our 5 seniors now got there in very different ways. But hey I would not complain about 5 freshmen coming in that all are contributors their entire time. I think ideally maybe we can bring in 5 and redshirt maybe 2-3 to even up class numbers?
We aren’t going to intentionally redshirt guys, I’m pretty sure that ship has sailed, no pun intended.
CM will get a deal. Those who want it should be satisfied, those who don’t should deal with it. He’ll need to bring the goods this year to justify it.
CM will get a deal. Those who want it should be satisfied, those who don’t should deal with it. He’ll need to bring the goods this year to justify it.
He will. I’m just in the limit the extension camp. No need to get into these long term problem deals. That’s where u can blame it on covid. We may be at the top end of what we’re willing to pay a head coach right now anyway unless Mooney has an E8 or F4 in him next year.
This is where Hardt comes in. Just add 1 year or 2 max. And if u get into a 2 or 3 extension a buyout option is a must. No idea why we’d give in here we still have leverage. A three or 4 year contract is plenty of security. It’s even more when you’ve been here 16 years. It’s laughable if someone is recruiting against us bc he doesn’t have “contract security” beyond that.
Regardless I wish the school would announce the full terms & have some transparency at the highest level of employment. When u can 1099 it you might as well be upfront.
This is where Hardt comes in. Just add 1 year or 2 max. And if u get into a 2 or 3 extension a buyout option is a must. No idea why we’d give in here we still have leverage. A three or 4 year contract is plenty of security. It’s even more when you’ve been here 16 years. It’s laughable if someone is recruiting against us bc he doesn’t have “contract security” beyond that.
Regardless I wish the school would announce the full terms & have some transparency at the highest level of employment. When u can 1099 it you might as well be upfront.
I was responding to Trap's comment that, if he were Mooney, he would be upset about it. I should have responded with his quote to make that clearer. I think Mooney understands the dynamics right now, as evidenced by his comments in the RTD.
On the larger picture of his contract, Mooney should have some gratitude to the University that stuck with him through the lean years, when they had every right to cut him lose, were it not for his golden parachute of a contract.
I would like to think that a man of Mooney's character as referenced above would appreciate the loyalty shown to him and respond in kind with whatever extension is given. Will he and his agent play hardball with a new AD that had his back during some very trying times?
Also highly doubt, Mooney has much interest in a bigger job, nor do bigger jobs have interest in Mooney. Any BCS fanbase is going to be too much scrutiny and pressure for Mooney and any BCS AD is gonna look at Mooney's complete 16 year track record here and his slightly over .500 record during that time and take a hard pass on that.
What I am saying is Mooney does not have a leverage here in the negotiations. So give him another year or two (max). Any raise onto his million dollar plus salary right now in COVID is going to come across as completely tone dear.
If Mooney delivers the goods this year and brings in a great recruiting class, than we can bump his salary and add another year or two next year if the economy is in better shape.
is it just me or has the recruiting improved since we have a new AD in place? is it possible that having a bad AD in place can hinder the process? Asking for a friend.
Yet to see if recruiting has picked up. The big class after next season will be a good sign.
Interesting question. It has been theorized on this board that Hardt gave Mooney a little bit of a kick in the pants. I don't think the academic restrictions have changed much. Mooney had those same restrictions in place when he recruited the classes that produced the 2011/12 NCAA's as when he brought in the Kovien's and Bryce's and AJ's.
I can see both sides. I think a moderate extension and raise is arguably in order, and most importantly to me, ensures that it wouldn't be a distraction or an issue or even the basis for a question raised by JOC during the upcoming season, for which we all have high hopes.
I think when we see length and amount of contract, it will be more ripe for scrutiny.
I think when we see length and amount of contract, it will be more ripe for scrutiny.
I don't buy into the kick in the pants theory, or that a kick in the pants would improve recruiting results. I don't believe he wasn't trying before but now is, though that theory seems to have traction here.
I don’t think he was on cruise control before but it does seem like the recruiting has really improved by quite a bit. But I think it is a stretch to say Mooney stopped caring. Maybe a new AD (or even a new assistant or two) were able to do something to improve recruiting or help with efficiency of recruiting which I think is very possible and definitely plausible
we (including me) say recruiting looks improved. when? when Hardt came in? Burton's the only recruit that's played since then. we hope Crabtree is a nice transfer. we don't know. we thought Solly was a nice transfer too. we're excited about the Weir, Wilson, Bailey class. are they going to be better than the current seniors that were recruited 4 years ago? I hope so, but that's a high bar.
Yessir I was agreeing with you actually, not arguing. Something at some point changed to where our recruiting philosophy seemed to shift and our quality increased. Who knows what that change was, it could be even something incredibly minor.
I just can’t wait for the new athletic center to open, that should really wow recruits and especially set us apart from other mid-majors.
Only 2 of the seniors were recruited 4 years. Remember that class had 3 other players who are no longer with the program and contributed very little on the court. So, if we are comparing this 5 man class to the 5 man class Mooney recruited 4 years ago, outside of Jacob, that is not a high bar at all for Mooney to exceed.
Yes, we can point to a player or two with each class that was a very good recruit. The problem was for several years that we had an obvious hole in the line up, and a lack of depth.
We did not have a Ryan Butler, Kevin Smith and Martel fighting for minutes, or Duinker/Garret backing up Geroit/Harp. Lindsay backing up KA. That was the kind of roster depth and competition missing.
We did not have a Ryan Butler, Kevin Smith and Martel fighting for minutes, or Duinker/Garret backing up Geroit/Harp. Lindsay backing up KA. That was the kind of roster depth and competition missing.
23 hit it on the head there with our biggest issue being usually one starter being a wasteland and then the bench not making any sort of positive difference. We even had some good glue guys (my first thought is Julius Johnson) who was thrust into a role where he had to do too much because we had nobody else
There sure are a lot of negative opinions.
I agree, the new AD was a catalyst for better recruiting. Hardt strikes me as
someone that doesn’t mind getting his hands dirty, but also works as a positive coach
to the coaches.
Shaffer (sp?) didn’t have it, and Hardt knew it and showed him the door. Does anyone think
our new women’s coach isn’t far superior?
Hardt also knows that a smart, relatively young man, that has had success as a coach only needed a push
in the right direction.
I see CM getting at least 2 to 3 years extension, with a number of incentives built into the contract that
we peons won’t know, and probably don’t deserve to know with some of the crap that gets posted
here.
I agree, the new AD was a catalyst for better recruiting. Hardt strikes me as
someone that doesn’t mind getting his hands dirty, but also works as a positive coach
to the coaches.
Shaffer (sp?) didn’t have it, and Hardt knew it and showed him the door. Does anyone think
our new women’s coach isn’t far superior?
Hardt also knows that a smart, relatively young man, that has had success as a coach only needed a push
in the right direction.
I see CM getting at least 2 to 3 years extension, with a number of incentives built into the contract that
we peons won’t know, and probably don’t deserve to know with some of the crap that gets posted
here.
if I have it right ...
1 year ago was Burton (and then Crabtree)
2 years ago was Grace, Koureissi, Goose, Woj, maybe Francis
3 years ago was Gilyard, Cayo, Verbinskis, Ford, Schneider
4 years ago was Golden, Sherod, Buckingham
can you say confidently that this freshman class of Weir, Wilson and Bailey is substantially better than Golden, Sherod and Buckingham?
1 year ago was Burton (and then Crabtree)
2 years ago was Grace, Koureissi, Goose, Woj, maybe Francis
3 years ago was Gilyard, Cayo, Verbinskis, Ford, Schneider
4 years ago was Golden, Sherod, Buckingham
can you say confidently that this freshman class of Weir, Wilson and Bailey is substantially better than Golden, Sherod and Buckingham?
Let’s just hope that this presumably good 2 year run won’t be followed by 8 of underachieving.
