ADVERTISEMENT

Recruiting Tracker

as an employer if I knew kids with 900's and 2.3's in high school were successfully graduating from XYZ University, I wouldn't be all that impressed with a degree from XYZ University.

there are plenty of really good basketball players who are good students. we've got a bunch now. these are the kind of kids we want. it's lazy to give up on attracting good student athletes to settle on kids who can just play ball. work your ass off and land the right kids.
 
spiderman said:
as an employer if I knew kids with 900's and 2.3's in high school were successfully graduating from XYZ University, I wouldn't be all that impressed with a degree from XYZ University.

there are plenty of really good basketball players who are good students. we've got a bunch now. these are the kind of kids we want. it's lazy to give up on attracting good student athletes to settle on kids who can just play ball. work your ass off and land the right kids.
Click to expand...

Then, as an employer, you probably would never hire anyone because guys with SATs of about 900 and GPAs of about 2.3 in high school are graduating from good schools all over the country. What about all the numerous really good, even great, schools out there who accept kids we don't and still graduate those kids? Do you really think that makes a degree from any of those schools mean less?
 
VT4700 said:
Then, as an employer, you probably would never hire anyone because guys with SATs of about 900 and GPAs of about 2.3 in high school are graduating from good schools all over the country.
Click to expand...
we hire really bright kids from really good schools all the time. I'd be very surprised if any of them were anywhere near the NCAA minimums coming out of high school.

VT4700 said:
What about all the numerous really good, even great, schools out there who accept kids we don't and still graduate those kids? Do you really think that makes a degree from any of those schools mean less?
Click to expand...
there are good larger public institutions with a much wider range of majors that can house lower academic kids and put them on a path to succeed. the major matters a lot with degrees from those schools. I don't believe you can hide weaker students at high academic small liberal arts schools.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChoppinBroccoli
Always a bummer when we are losing out to an in conference foe. It happens but disappointing. Seems like a decent chance he’ll end up at an Ivy.
 
MrTbone said:
Always a bummer when we are losing out to an in conference foe. It happens but disappointing. Seems like a decent chance he’ll end up at an Ivy.
Click to expand...

It's a good list but you'd think one we'd also be on with a couple A10 schools, one who is completely rebuilding, and a couple Ivies. It's a list we fit well and presumably we were after him pretty hard given our big recruiting need at his position, and from what little was reported. But I think this is what you get when you have a coach with his seat on fire.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spider23
GKiller said:
It's a good list but you'd think one we'd also be on with a couple A10 schools, one who is completely rebuilding, and a couple Ivies. It's a list we fit well and presumably we were after him pretty hard given our big recruiting need at his position, and from what little was reported. But I think this is what you get when you have a coach with his seat on fire.
Click to expand...
I see little that suggests his seat is actually on fire. It should be but not much evidence of that.
 
MrTbone said:
I see little that suggests his seat is actually on fire. It should be but not much evidence of that.
Click to expand...

I get where u r coming from. I never viewed him as realistically on any hot seat until last season. Externally he’s already been on hot seat lists (I don’t mean our message board) & that is not including any that r to come out for this season. Internally he has what 2 years left on contract, after 19-20? That’s not many for recruiting. I don’t see them leaving him with only 2 years after this season under most scenarios. So it’s either extension or fired. Of course what constitutes extension is unknown especially with bumbling stumbling big hat no cattle Hardt. It should only come with a ncaa bid. To give him one after 9 years without NCAA is unfathomable to me and would say a lot about valuing success or lack thereof. Now I truly think he can earn it with this team but it’s ncaa or bust. Of course I realize why u think our university leadership sees things differently.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: gospidersgo
his job security is an issue on the recruiting trail. I know that for a fact.
we're fortunate that we only need to land one in the next class. he's actually done remarkably well landing Burton and Crabtree this year considering. both were very strong signings.

this needs clarity one way of the other before next summer's recruiting period. that's a 5 man class and we'll struggle to land a good one without a decision either way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GKiller and gospidersgo
spiderman said:
his job security is an issue on the recruiting trail. I know that for a fact.
we're fortunate that we only need to land one in the next class. he's actually done remarkably well landing Burton and Crabtree this year considering. both were very strong signings.

this needs clarity one way of the other before next summer's recruiting period. that's a 5 man class and we'll struggle to land a good one without a decision either way.
Click to expand...
That’s probably the most compelling datapoint that the seat is hot that I’ve heard.

Is your sense that recruits are actually disinclined to sign with him? Clearly neither Crabtree nor Burton were concerned enough.
 
GKiller said:
I get where u r coming from. I never viewed him as realistically on any hot seat until last season. Externally he’s already been on hot seat lists (I don’t mean our message board) & that is not including any that r to come out for this season. Internally he has what 2 years left on contract, after 19-20? That’s not many for recruiting. I don’t see them leaving him with only 2 years after this season under most scenarios. So it’s either extension or fired. Of course what constitutes extension is unknown especially with bumbling stumbling big hat no cattle Hardt. It should only come with a ncaa bid. To give him one after 9 years without NCAA is unfathomable to me and would say a lot about valuing success or lack thereof. Now I truly think he can earn it with this team but it’s ncaa or bust. Of course I realize why u think our university leadership sees things differently.
Click to expand...
I just don’t understand why you feel the need to constantly attack Hardt. Some of his decisions were forced upon him, before he ever got here.
Plus, I’ve never seen an AD coach or recruit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VT4700
AnnapSpider said:
I just don’t understand why you feel the need to constantly attack Hardt. Some of his decisions were forced upon him, before he ever got here.
Plus, I’ve never seen an AD coach or recruit.
Click to expand...
There’s an appreciable credibility problem with Hardt. Yes he inherited a problem but his positioning was initially that he needed a year to make an evaluation. So he got a year and things started out super poorly and he made some statements that CM would be evaluated ultimately on wins and losses. The season ends and he kept a 20 loss coach (back to back at that) because of platitudes about the promise of the future. These could certainly fall into the “all talk no action” category.

So I get where people are coming from. This is how it’s going to be on here until something meaningful changes I suspect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gospidersgo
MrTbone said:
There’s an appreciable credibility problem with Hardt. Yes he inherited a problem but his positioning was initially that he needed a year to make an evaluation. So he got a year and things started out super poorly and he made some statements that CM would be evaluated ultimately on wins and losses. The season ends and he kept a 20 loss coach (back to back at that) because of platitudes about the promise of the future. These could certainly fall into the “all talk no action” category.

So I get where people are coming from. This is how it’s going to be on here until something meaningful changes I suspect.
Click to expand...
So, your entire opinion and others, are based solely on Chris Mooney. The other sports, and specifically the ladies basketball program don’t count. It’s all about Mooney. Is that right?
 
AnnapSpider said:
So, your entire opinion and others, are based solely on Chris Mooney. The other sports, and specifically the ladies basketball program don’t count. It’s all about Mooney. Is that right?
Click to expand...
Well I wouldn’t conflate my opinion with others. You’d have to ask them that. You may have seen elsewhere that I’ve stated I don’t think JH deserves as much criticism as he often gets. Nonetheless, he does have a credibility problem specifically when it comes to MBB and CM.

I think this is one of those situations where the 80/20 rule DOESN’T apply. If he’s great at managing the non-revenue sports but can’t get football and in particular, basketball, to perform, that’s what he’ll be judged by. There’s no denying that basketball and CM have failed by quantitative measures while Hardt has been here.

Again, he has inherited a bit of a mess but he’s also opted to let the leader of the mess try to clean it up rather than bring in a new leader. Maybe he’ll be right, but I doubt it. Past performance is the strongest indicator of future results.
 
AnnapSpider said:
So, your entire opinion and others, are based solely on Chris Mooney. The other sports, and specifically the ladies basketball program don’t count. It’s all about Mooney. Is that right?
Click to expand...

No. Of course it’s a big part but other issues have been enumerated frequently.

Re: ladies he wasted a whole year. Time is our #1 commodity not money. We have money and apparently can afford to waste that given the large spending on Lunardi & hiring a coaching search firm to hire the same coach he had hired at Bucknell. It was a lost year for no reason. Now we r behind a whole year. Roussell looks pretty good but he hasn’t coached 1 game here.

U gotta know when to cut your losses. If you don’t someone will do it for you. I believe our AD time here will be short.
 
AnnapSpider said:
So, your entire opinion and others, are based solely on Chris Mooney. The other sports, and specifically the ladies basketball program don’t count. It’s all about Mooney. Is that right?
Click to expand...

And we don't even know if he made the right or wrong decision yet with Mooney. Why not wait and whine and complain when/if there is a reason to?
 
VT4700 said:
And we don't even know if he made the right or wrong decision yet with Mooney. Why not wait and whine and complain when/if there is a reason to?
Click to expand...
Well, one could reasonably argue he made the wrong decision the prior year bringing him back. If you think there isn’t a reason to complain about keeping a coach who hasn’t made the ncaa in close to a decade then you have a different bar than most (which is fine btw) but it hardly means you should expect fans with a higher bar to be content/silent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hanca and whampas
Tbone, correct - jabba is a day late and dollar short on Mooney. My prediction is we win 18-20 games this season, but no post season. Next year we are on the bubble (unless some big grad transfer defections), but then the Mooney slide begins thereafter. A Richmond basketball death spiral.
 
MrTbone said:
Well I wouldn’t conflate my opinion with others. You’d have to ask them that. You may have seen elsewhere that I’ve stated I don’t think JH deserves as much criticism as he often gets. Nonetheless, he does have a credibility problem specifically when it comes to MBB and CM.

I think this is one of those situations where the 80/20 rule DOESN’T apply. If he’s great at managing the non-revenue sports but can’t get football and in particular, basketball, to perform, that’s what he’ll be judged by. There’s no denying that basketball and CM have failed by quantitative measures while Hardt has been here.

Again, he has inherited a bit of a mess but he’s also opted to let the leader of the mess try to clean it up rather than bring in a new leader. Maybe he’ll be right, but I doubt it. Past performance is the strongest indicator of future results.
Click to expand...
Tbone, I guess I did conflate your opinion with others, but the jest of everything I’ve read tends to lend itself
to that conclusion.
I don’t think I have ever heard of an AD coming into a program and start the slicing and dicing without spending time to assess the situation.
Someone said he wasted a year with the ladies coach. That’s ridiculous. He had no background on Schaffer that would tell him he should eat one year of contract expense when he knew that the change could be made without having to deal with the loss of the money. And, this should come as no surprise, we lose money on the ladies program every year, why add to it?
As far as Mooney, I don’t totally disagree that he should be replaced. But, Hardt may have done what any good administrator would do and look at all of the issues behind the fall of Mooney’s leadership. What has the academic arm done to prevent success, why has recruiting gone badly, how do the players feel
regarding their coach, etc. etc.
If we have another bad season and Hardt does nothing, I will walk lockstep with you to the conclusion that Hardt is not the AD for the future. But right now, I don’t agree with the short timetable some want to
use.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iSpider and VT4700
AnnapSpider said:
Tbone, I guess I did conflate your opinion with others, but the jest of everything I’ve read tends to lend itself
to that conclusion.
I don’t think I have ever heard of an AD coming into a program and start the slicing and dicing without spending time to assess the situation.
Someone said he wasted a year with the ladies coach. That’s ridiculous. He had no background on Schaffer that would tell him he should eat one year of contract expense when he knew that the change could be made without having to deal with the loss of the money. And, this should come as no surprise, we lose money on the ladies program every year, why add to it?
As far as Mooney, I don’t totally disagree that he should be replaced. But, Hardt may have done what any good administrator would do and look at all of the issues behind the fall of Mooney’s leadership. What has the academic arm done to prevent success, why has recruiting gone badly, how do the players feel
regarding their coach, etc. etc.
If we have another bad season and Hardt does nothing, I will walk lockstep with you to the conclusion that Hardt is not the AD for the future. But right now, I don’t agree with the short timetable some want to
use.
Click to expand...
It’s certainly worth taking some time to get the lay of the land but Shafer’s case was not borderline, there was nothing to evaluate there and not much contract to eat. He could have made that call a year ago and no one would have given him the hairy eyeball. But I don’t think that’s the issue.

The issue as noted is MBB. He had a year and a half to evaluate the situation and ultimately didn’t base the decision on what he said he was going to (at least primarily). So maybe he determined we have other issues beyond the coach but he’s got to be smarter about what he’s communicating we are doing because the net result is lots of diehard fans don’t think he’s believable.

And plenty of ADs come in and making sweeping changes immediately. It’s not our style but it’s certainly not uncommon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gospidersgo
MrTbone said:
That’s probably the most compelling datapoint that the seat is hot that I’ve heard.

Is your sense that recruits are actually disinclined to sign with him? Clearly neither Crabtree nor Burton were concerned enough.
Click to expand...
Some kids see the big picture like I'd like to think I would. Whether Mooney's on the hot seat or not, UR can be the right place for you. Great school, campus, facilities. Great guys on the team that you feel could be your family. Great level of play. The roster is promising. If we win this year, the coach that's recruiting you is probably extended and all is good. If not, he's probably gone and the school hires a very good coach. It can still be the right place. You commit to the school.

To other recruits ... yeah it's a problem. To some the relationship with the head coach is the biggest factor in picking a school. And if those kids think the coach might not be kept, that uncertainly rules out that school. Some kids have so many offers, they're almost looking for any reason to trim someone. it's hard making choices. these coaches are all really good at recruiting. they all say the right things. they all make a good case for their schools.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gospidersgo and VT4700
spiderman said:
Some kids see the big picture like I'd like to think I would. Whether Mooney's on the hot seat or not, UR can be the right place for you. Great school, campus, facilities. Great guys on the team that you feel could be your family. Great level of play. The roster is promising. If we win this year, the coach that's recruiting you is probably extended and all is good. If not, he's probably gone and the school hires a very good coach. It can still be the right place. You commit to the school.

To other recruits ... yeah it's a problem. To some the relationship with the head coach is the biggest factor in picking a school. And if those kids think the coach might not be kept, that uncertainly rules out that school. Some kids have so many offers, they're almost looking for any reason to trim someone. it's hard making choices. these coaches are all really good at recruiting. they all say the right things. they all make a good case for their schools.
Click to expand...
Makes sense. Having so few spots to fill next year minimizes the impact at least to some extent.
 
MrTbone said:
It’s certainly worth taking some time to get the lay of the land but Shafer’s case was not borderline, there was nothing to evaluate there and not much contract to eat. He could have made that call a year ago and no one would have given him the hairy eyeball. But I don’t think that’s the issue.

The issue as noted is MBB. He had a year and a half to evaluate the situation and ultimately didn’t base the decision on what he said he was going to (at least primarily). So maybe he determined we have other issues beyond the coach but he’s got to be smarter about what he’s communicating we are doing because the net result is lots of diehard fans don’t think he’s believable.

And plenty of ADs come in and making sweeping changes immediately. It’s not our style but it’s certainly not uncommon.
Click to expand...
I think we’re just going to have to agree that we disagree, and let time prove one of
us right.
(Which of course will be me. LOL)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

32counter

Early Signing Day,December 4, 2024-December 6, 2024

Replies
180
Views
10K
UR Football Board
urfan1
urfan1
P
  • Sticky

2025 Commits List

Replies
46
Views
10K
UR Football Board
32counter
32counter
SFspidur

2018 Offers, Commits, and Signees

Replies
488
Views
77K
UR Football Board
32counter
32counter
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back