Spider Collective NIL

[spiderman]

to add to Trap's post, it's not just during the school year that these players can't earn money. pretty much all regular students intern or take on some kind of summer job to earn money. our basketball players are expected to be on campus just about all summer. that's work.

I actually don't care that they do additional off the court work for the NIL. some player are getting paid more than others at the same school. do they have to do more work? no. they're getting paid more because they're deemed worth it for what they do on the court. and they all still have to get grades to remain eligible. it's a lot.

 

[mr.spider]

to add to Trap's post, it's not just during the school year that these players can't earn money. pretty much all regular students intern or take on some kind of summer job to earn money. our basketball players are expected to be on campus just about all summer. that's work.

I actually don't care that they do additional off the court work for the NIL. some player are getting paid more than others at the same school. do they have to do more work? no. they're getting paid more because they're deemed worth it for what they do on the court. and they all still have to get grades to remain eligible. it's a lot.

Yeah, it is a big commitment to be a basketball player in addition to school, but hopefully it's also their passion and also potential part of their career path after school. As it was they got a free scholarship (kind of a big deal), yielding them opportunities to go in 2 different directions after school.

A typical student summer job probably doesn't pay hundreds of thousands. Just sayin'.. Athletes have always been overpaid. I personally think a free education is pretty good compensation. Instead we have eliminated college sports and replaced with a professional league. For me, a free agent money-based system takes a huge hit out of the pride felt among college teams now that there's no consistency or loyalty.

 

[VT4700]

College athletes work at their games morning, day and night. They have about 1/20th the free time other students have. I would call that being pretty loyal to their school.

 

[mr.spider]

At this point, they are mostly only interested in dollars earned. Don't care so much what school. Not much pride left in the school itself, which is what made college sports fun and kind of unique to professional sports.

 

[spiderman]

Just sayin'.. Athletes have always been overpaid. I personally think a free education is pretty good compensation.

you and I don't get to determine what's fair compensation. the market determines that. and the market was artificially suppressed until now.

I go back to my bank example. imagine if banks colluded like D1 colleges do through the NCAA?
"guys, it's too expensive to pay these traders so much. let's all agree to a pay cap. we'll all make more money that way."

 

[plydogg]

Kind of reminds me of a Dwight Schrute quote.

“Would I ever leave this company? Look, I’m all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what I’m being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly… I’m going wherever they value loyalty the most.”

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Kind of reminds me of a Dwight Schrute quote.

“Would I ever leave this company? Look, I’m all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what I’m being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly… I’m going wherever they value loyalty the most.”

Add Ply to the NIL text thread for this Office quote.

 

[UR80sfan]

At this point, they are mostly only interested in dollars earned. Don't care so much what school. Not much pride left in the school itself, which is what made college sports fun and kind of unique to professional sports.

You have no idea what you are talking about. You keep posting BS like it is fact.

 

[urfan1]

At this point, they are mostly only interested in dollars earned. Don't care so much what school. Not much pride left in the school itself, which is what made college sports fun and kind of unique to professional sports.

I doubt you have stats to back this up. Let's recruit good character kids, I think they will play with the passion you describe.

 

[mr.spider]

Spiderman, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I simply disagree with you. And unfortunately for me, things have changed. Loyalty is lost in college sports which is devastatingly tragic. I watch sports for the pride I feel in MY team, not to see good shots or good plays by any ole team. I'm out there on the court sweating with our guys, agonizing over every play and every result. That is what makes it fun for me. I would never watch a game where I didn't care about the results. I care about the Spiders and the Spiders only. No interest in any other college or professional team. It's ALL about the pride. I'm lingering around to see what we do because it's such a passion for me, but with loyalty lost and no real team left, it's really all but over even if we pony up millions & millions to play the system.

 

[mr.spider]

I doubt you have stats to back this up. Let's recruit good character kids, I think they will play with the passion you describe.

They'll play hard because athletes generally are pretty competitive. They want to win, and they have passion for the game. But as soon as the season ends, they'll look for a new team who pays them more money. No loyalty to the team, just the game and themselves. It was nice when the team mattered.

 

[mr.spider]

You have no idea what you are talking about. You keep posting BS like it is fact.

Have you noticed the increase in player movement? Have you noticed that players end up at or 2 or 3 schools in a short 4 or 5 year period. Doesn't seem like much loyalty to me. What changed? A dangling dollar bill on a carrot stick. Hmmm, wonder what happened.

 

[UR80sfan]

Have you noticed the increase in player movement? Have you noticed that players end up at or 2 or 3 schools in a short 4 or 5 year period. Doesn't seem like much loyalty to me. What changed? A dangling dollar bill on a carrot stick. Hmmm, wonder what happened.

On our entire team the only one who might transfer for more money is Dji and his dad says that it is not all about money. They just published an article about Jonathan Beagle, who mentioned many reasons he was coming to Richmond, which did not include money. NIL is one of the factors players consider, but there are also a lot of other things considered. Stop posting fake news.

 

[mr.spider]

On our entire team the only one who might transfer for more money is Dji and his dad says that it is not all about money. They just published an article about Jonathan Beagle, who mentioned many reasons he was coming to Richmond, which did not include money. NIL is one of the factors players consider, but there are also a lot of other things considered. Stop posting fake news.

Why, then, has the number of players transferring increased when one factor changed? Money is the root of all evils. Loyalty is lost. I have no idea if a player wants to be on a team or whether he just wants to earn a dollar or increase his chances of earning a bigger dollar. We haven't been impacted as much as others YET, but we will be. Loyalty was our strongest asset under Mooney, and ironically we lose it to Money.

 

[spiderman]

sometimes transferring is about money. if a kid who's never had much money has the chance for a big payday, he might take it when he's valued more (financially) by a higher level school. sucks for fans and for his coach, but it is what it is. I don't get upset about that.

Burton got paid, but I don't feel he left for money. he left to (in his mind) do what was best to reach his pro dreams. plus he graduated.

I don't feel Dji is leaving for money either.

Noyes, Smith, Nelson, Dread, Wilson, Randolph, Weir, etc ... all left recently. obviously not for NIL money. these kids work their tails off all year and sometimes don't get the payoff. it's tough to be all about the team while you're on the bench. sometimes you want a fresh start. they all want to play.

that's still where most of the transferring comes from. that and these Ivy kids like Manon who aren't allowed to stay at their schools. in most cases it's still about kids wanting to be happy. not about NIL money.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

Have you noticed the increase in player movement? Have you noticed that players end up at or 2 or 3 schools in a short 4 or 5 year period. Doesn't seem like much loyalty to me. What changed? A dangling dollar bill on a carrot stick. Hmmm, wonder what happened.

One thing I know for sure, we should definitely paint everyone with the same broad brush because all cases are exactly the same, and that is.... NO LOYALTY.

 

[MrTbone]

hopefully for UR student athletes that's an AND, not an OR.

I don't get the anger towards NIL. schools aren't being taken advantage of.
for a long time schools have been willing to give scholarships. it's worth it to the school.
now, whether it's schools or boosters or companies, they're paying these student athletes. again, the schools or boosters or companies have decided that's worth it.

Agreed. This was already going on anyway and we chose (rightly) not to participate. Now it’s in the open and we can participate, seems like a leveling of the playing field however unlevel it may remain.

 

[MrTbone]

Not even saying we need to be in the pictures, or even if UR didn't attend (which it appears they did). UR could have put out a tweet saying they support this bill and glad Virginia is looking for student-athletes. If the athletic twitter accounts tweets something like that out - it sends the message that UR at least in support of paying the athletes and will use this bill to do so. Again - could have been a leader here, could have taken the lead - but decide to stay in the background and I think it means, we probably are not going to use this bill.

Im not breaking any news here, but Athletics PR/comms isn’t really playing at this level. This is the kind of thing that Univeristy Communications does but there’s something of a wall between those two departments.

 

[VT4700]

Spiderman, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I simply disagree with you. And unfortunately for me, things have changed. Loyalty is lost in college sports which is devastatingly tragic. I watch sports for the pride I feel in MY team, not to see good shots or good plays by any ole team. I'm out there on the court sweating with our guys, agonizing over every play and every result. That is what makes it fun for me. I would never watch a game where I didn't care about the results. I care about the Spiders and the Spiders only. No interest in any other college or professional team. It's ALL about the pride. I'm lingering around to see what we do because it's such a passion for me, but with loyalty lost and no real team left, it's really all but over even if we pony up millions & millions to play the system.

If is really is all but over for you, please, for all of us, end it already.

 

[AnnapSpider]

you and I don't get to determine what's fair compensation. the market determines that. and the market was artificially suppressed until now.

I go back to my bank example. imagine if banks colluded like D1 colleges do through the NCAA?
"guys, it's too expensive to pay these traders so much. let's all agree to a pay cap. we'll all make more money that way."

“You and I don’t get to determine what’s fair compensation….” on this site you have a lot of people that think they know what’s fair.

 

[RichmondNative]

you and I don't get to determine what's fair compensation. the market determines that. and the market was artificially suppressed until now.

How was the markets suppressed when there wasn’t one? College athletes used to be amateurs which by definition meant that they did not get paid. Currently, the “rules” are that they can be compensated for the use of their name, image or likeness. I don’t have a problem with NIL payments when players are being used for marketing. The problem is that in reality there are actually very few “superstars” that actually have the marketing value that seems to be the expected going rate. Thus what we have is payments being made for expected athletic performance and by groups of fanatical donors. There is no market rate, there is simply open bidding.

I’m a fan of college athletics because they weren’t professional athletics and the complications caused by such. Now college football and basketball are professional sports and the “salaries” are overly inflated due to a bunch of people thinking that all a program has to do is to outspend the competition. The old model is broken and there will be plenty of changes. When those will occur I don’t know, but I have no doubt there will be additional “tiers” coming.

 

[spiderman]

There is no market rate, there is simply open bidding.

uh, that's how an open market works.

how was the market suppressed? by not allowing payments despite the colleges seeing value in making payments. some cheated. but most would have been willing to pay (obviously).

P5 schools are basically printing money off football and basketball. I can't understand the argument that we should continue to allow schools to collude to not pay athletes when the NCAA sports revenue from those athletes is in the billions.

 

[mr.spider]

On our entire team the only one who might transfer for more money is Dji and his dad says that it is not all about money. They just published an article about Jonathan Beagle, who mentioned many reasons he was coming to Richmond, which did not include money. NIL is one of the factors players consider, but there are also a lot of other things considered. Stop posting fake news.

And do you think Beagle will stay at Richmond if he's offered a lot more dollars next year at another school? It used to be cool because the qualities Richmond had to offer brought kids in and they felt the pride to go with it. I believe we have a lot of selling points, but now those are all afterthoughts.

 

[spiderman]

 

[97spiderfan]

And do you think Beagle will stay at Richmond if he's offered a lot more dollars next year at another school? It used to be cool because the qualities Richmond had to offer brought kids in and they felt the pride to go with it. I believe we have a lot of selling points, but now those are all afterthoughts.

We have yet to have a portal transfer out after he came here. The only players that have left via the portal are 4 year players who graduated or guys who weren't part of our rotation.

And no I don't think Beagle is going to go portaling next year. I think Mooney probably has a pretty good feel as well as expectations for his incoming transfers that you don't do that.

We are not the revolving door that a school like VCU is. Could that change perhaps, but think that is one area where our stability and culture really help us.

 

[mr.spider]

If is really is all but over for you, please, for all of us, end it already.

Don't worry, it probably won't be much longer. Loyalty & pride are clearly gone, chances of high success have dwindled to near zero with the introduction of big money, and we are very likely to slip to a lower level and no longer be competing for a championship.

But just like the regular season, I hang around until we have zero chance of an at-large bid even if it requires winning out from game 12 on. We are just about eliminated from college sports, but there is the tiniest of chances that we will remain at the top level, fund the NIL at the university level to stay competitive, and offer big enough packages that our other qualities have a chance to shine.

It looks extremely dire, but I'll hang around until the lights are completely out.

 

[mr.spider]

We have yet to have a portal transfer out after he came here. The only players that have left via the portal are 4 year players who graduated or guys who weren't part of our rotation.

And no I don't think Beagle is going to go portaling next year. I think Mooney probably has a pretty good feel as well as expectations for his incoming transfers that you don't do that.

We are not the revolving door that a school like VCU is. Could that change perhaps, but think that is one area where our stability and culture really help us.

Thank you 97. It is true we've done better than most at retention because of our family culture and qualities at Richmond. For that I am very proud.

But that's why this is particularly devastating. Those qualities will help if we're in the ballpark on our NIL packages. I don't think we even need to have the top offer because we do have a lot of qualities which other schools don't.

But, unfortunately, as more money floods the market, it will be very hard to keep up especially if we're not all in with university funds. When large offers are made that we can't come close to matching, unfortunately, our other qualities, which are great, will not be enough to outweigh $$$. It is a sad part of society that money drives everything.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

How was the markets suppressed when there wasn’t one? College athletes used to be amateurs which by definition meant that they did not get paid. Currently, the “rules” are that they can be compensated for the use of their name, image or likeness. I don’t have a problem with NIL payments when players are being used for marketing. The problem is that in reality there are actually very few “superstars” that actually have the marketing value that seems to be the expected going rate. Thus what we have is payments being made for expected athletic performance and by groups of fanatical donors. There is no market rate, there is simply open bidding.

I’m a fan of college athletics because they weren’t professional athletics and the complications caused by such. Now college football and basketball are professional sports and the “salaries” are overly inflated due to a bunch of people thinking that all a program has to do is to outspend the competition. The old model is broken and there will be plenty of changes. When those will occur I don’t know, but I have no doubt there will be additional “tiers” coming.

I don’t understand the statement that the reason you (or anyone for that matter) likes college athletics because they are not professional athletics.

I assume you mean in the sense that they care just for the sake of caring about winning and not because they were being paid? But I’ve yet to see any level of apathy exhibited from any college athlete attributed to any NIL money they may have received. The tournament was excellent this year.

For that matter the nba playoffs have extremely high levels of buy in. Anyone watching the Knicks and Nuggets wins the other night would be hard pressed to argue otherwise.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

Don't worry, it probably won't be much longer. Loyalty & pride are clearly gone, chances of high success have dwindled to near zero with the introduction of big money, and we are very likely to slip to a lower level and no longer be competing for a championship.

But just like the regular season, I hang around until we have zero chance of an at-large bid even if it requires winning out from game 12 on. We are just about eliminated from college sports, but there is the tiniest of chances that we will remain at the top level, fund the NIL at the university level to stay competitive, and offer big enough packages that our other qualities have a chance to shine.

It looks extremely dire, but I'll hang around until the lights are completely out.

I feel like you need to adopt a cat or a dog or something.

 

[mr.spider]

I feel like you need to adopt a cat or a dog or something.

I have an awesome dog. Nothing can match a dog's loyalty that's for sure. I'll take a half match of a dog's loyalty at this point.

 

[spiderman]

I have an awesome dog. Nothing can match a dog's loyalty that's for sure. I'll take a half match of a dog's loyalty at this point.

my dog would get in anyone's car, especially if they had a treat.

hey, just like today's college athletes! /s

 

[UR80sfan]

Thank you 97. It is true we've done better than most at retention because of our family culture and qualities at Richmond. For that I am very proud.

But that's why this is particularly devastating. Those qualities will help if we're in the ballpark on our NIL packages. I don't think we even need to have the top offer because we do have a lot of qualities which other schools don't.

But, unfortunately, as more money floods the market, it will be very hard to keep up especially if we're not all in with university funds. When large offers are made that we can't come close to matching, unfortunately, our other qualities, which are great, will not be enough to outweigh $$$. It is a sad part of society that money drives everything.

If you really want to help the team you should stop posting on this site and start posting the same negative bs on VCU's site.

 

[mr.spider]

If you really want to help the team you should stop posting on this site and start posting the same same negative bs on VCU's site.

What makes it BS, sir? That you don't agree or don't want to acknowledge it.

 

[VT4700]

What makes it BS, sir? That you don't agree or don't want to acknowledge it.

Well, call it BS or something else, but everything you are posting is what "might" happen in the future. That is probably your last 50 or more posts saying exactly the same thing, based only on what might happen. And, yes, every post of yours is 100% negative.

 

[mr.spider]

Well, call it BS or something else, but everything you are posting is what "might" happen in the future. That is probably your last 50 or more posts saying exactly the same thing, based only on what might happen. And, yes, every post of yours is 100% negative.

Love ya, VT! Only your opinion and view matters; now I understand. My posts are related to desiring to see better from our program and the reality of where things are headed if we don't do something. You are satisfied with not making the tourney 'cause little 'ole Richmond. That's pretty negative on our program to not expect more.

 

[spiderman]

if under the new law we're allowed to (and choose to) tap into the endowment or endowment interest to fund NIL, then we could be a power. we're near the top 10 in the country in endowment for schools with D1 sports (excluding the Ivy who won't play the NIL game).

will we choose to spend like the big boys? I'll believe it when see it. unitl I hear otherwise I believe we'll continue to fund NIL with donor contributions only. that keeps us in the upper 3rd or so of the A10 but nowhere near the level of the power conferences.

List of colleges and universities in the United States by endowment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SFspidur]

Utter insanity to think there is any chance of the university taking $100 million or whatever in endowment funds that are already allocated elsewhere and putting them toward NIL.

 

[RichmondNative]

Utter insanity to think there is any chance of the university taking $100 million or whatever in endowment funds that are already allocated elsewhere and putting them toward NIL.

x100 Million

I have to agree with the administration’s position here. The mission of the University is not to pay a select group of athletes.

 

[spiderman]

x100 Million

I have to agree with the administration’s position here. The mission of the University is not to pay a select group of athletes.

there's a cost and a benefit to any University in having D1 athletics.
we choose to fund 7 men's and 9 women's sports with varying investments in each.

it's easy to argue that the student and alumni experiences would greatly benefit from additional investment in revenue producing sports, particularly men's basketball.

plus the university could financially benefit. there are NCAA payouts, but also with athletic success there is increased demand for tickets, college applications increase, and alumni donations increase. it could even make the difference if the conferences do divide at some point.

 

[mr.spider]

if under the new law we're allowed to (and choose to) tap into the endowment or endowment interest to fund NIL, then we could be a power. we're near the top 10 in the country in endowment for schools with D1 sports (excluding the Ivy who won't play the NIL game).

will we choose to spend like the big boys? I'll believe it when see it. unitl I hear otherwise I believe we'll continue to fund NIL with donor contributions only. that keeps us in the upper 3rd or so of the A10 but nowhere near the level of the power conferences.

List of colleges and universities in the United States by endowment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Correct. This is why I point out how big of a crossroads this is. We could rise to the Elite or fall back to a lower subdivision of Div 1. It seems crazy to spend big on NIL, but that's the only way to achieve high success these days. It's not ideal at all, but it's either that or slip backwards and have a very low ceiling for success.