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SpiderTrap said:
Here is an under the radar guy to keep an eye on - Andy Toole at Robert Morris. His name was pretty common a couple of years ago when they beat Kentucky in the NIT first round and then they made the NCAA tourney. His teams fell off after that due to some disciplinary problems and some guys transferring up (not like our guys who transfer to DII schools). But his team this year is at the top of the NEC, he knows how to recruit with ties to AAU programs in the Northeast - which is our biggest alumni base as well. He also attended Penn and was part of NCAA teams there - so he gets the academics side. He seems similar to Mooney in his background with the major difference being - he has been a head coach now for 10 years, but is still very young. I feel like we hired Mooney with little head coaching experience, and what little he had was at Air Force - where you don't really do much recruiting there.

Again - not putting Toole on the top of the list, but if his team makes the NCAA tourney and wins a game as a 15 seed or 14 seed - look out, his name will be popping up again.
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Nice timing Trap. I was just going to mention Toole. You're right. I believe you & I mentioned him a few years ago when the Mooney murmurs first started, or maybe that was when the Cal rumor came up.

He would be a guy right near the top if they hadn't regressed a bit last couple years. He is doing well again at RMU. And correct on reasons for the dip. Look RMU is a hard job. Harder to keep guys, I believe he also lost a good grad transfer or two. In some cases yes coach bears responsibility for transfers so you look at that, but in this case majority were outside control and guys looking to move up from a low major.

Similar to Boals, at this point I wouldn't have him at top of list, but a legit name and someone definitely to add to list overall.
 
spiderstudent17 said:
Updating my coaches watch-list:

1. Nate Oats - Buffalo
2. Earl Grant - Charleston
3. Steve Alford - UCLA
4. Hubert Davis - Assistant at UNC
5. Matt McMahon - Murray State
6. Wes Miller - UNC-Greensboro
7. Nathan Davis - Bucknell
8. Jason Williford - Associate Head coach at UVA
9. John Becker - Vermont
10. Nancy Lieberman
11. TJ Otzelberger - South Dakota State
12. Rick Stansbury - WKU
13. Bob Richey - Furman
14. Mike Jones - Radford
15. Steve Donahue - Penn
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Stansbury really invalidates your entire rest of list imo (even tho majority of others are good). Unlike an Oats who we'd love to get but couldn't get anymore, Stansbury we'd never even want. Just wouldn't happen at UR.

McMahon new name. Give you credit on that one. Murray coaches do seem to move a little higher level traditionally but who knows.
 
GKiller said:
Stansbury really invalidates your entire rest of list imo (even tho majority of others are good). Unlike an Oats who we'd love to get but couldn't get anymore, Stansbury we'd never even want. Just wouldn't happen at UR.

McMahon new name. Give you credit on that one. Murray coaches do seem to move a little higher level traditionally but who knows.
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Did anyone watch the Belmont v. Murray State game last night? I watched most of the second half. Belmont, at least for the part I saw, was the better team, and seemed to be a better coached team. For Murray State, their star guard Morant was allowed to have the ball as much as he wanted with little involvement from other players. This seems strange since Morant leads the nation in assists per game. I kept waiting for the Murray State coach to call timeout and get Morant to distribute the ball.
 
Spider Bob79 said:
Did anyone watch the Belmont v. Murray State game last night? I watched most of the second half. Belmont, at least for the part I saw, was the better team, and seemed to be a better coached team. For Murray State, their star guard Morant was allowed to have the ball as much as he wanted with little involvement from other players. This seems strange since Morant leads the nation in assists per game. I kept waiting for the Murray State coach to call timeout and get Morant to distribute the ball.
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Rick Byrd at Belmont is a great coach. Just the ship has sailed on him. Sorta like McKillop. With their ages and longevity at their schools I think no plans to move anywhere. Both closer to retirement than a new job imo. But both outstanding and would have loved to have either at earlier time.
 
I've always loved watching Rick Byrd's teams at Belmont. Well coached and always a tough team to play.
 
The other big question will be - if UR decides to get rid of Mooney and buyout his contract, how much will they be willing to spend on the next coach? The lists and top candidates here, they will want close to the same if not more on an annual basis than Mooney was getting. A new coach in demand will know what the previous coach was making and will want the same if not more. So that means UR will have to be willing to spend the money, and it doesn't seem like they love doing that for Athletics. OR - will UR try to save some money on the new coach, meaning they will drop the pay down, which means we probably then are looking at 4th, 5th, 6th options. A guy like Nathan Davis, who will likely be in the running for a few jobs if the Bison make the NCAA tourney - he will command near 1 million from UR to be considered.
I just have a hard time believing UR will spend the money - which is another reason I think they give Mooney more time.
 
SpiderTrap said:
The other big question will be - if UR decides to get rid of Mooney and buyout his contract, how much will they be willing to spend on the next coach? The lists and top candidates here, they will want close to the same if not more on an annual basis than Mooney was getting. A new coach in demand will know what the previous coach was making and will want the same if not more. So that means UR will have to be willing to spend the money, and it doesn't seem like they love doing that for Athletics. OR - will UR try to save some money on the new coach, meaning they will drop the pay down, which means we probably then are looking at 4th, 5th, 6th options. A guy like Nathan Davis, who will likely be in the running for a few jobs if the Bison make the NCAA tourney - he will command near 1 million from UR to be considered.
I just have a hard time believing UR will spend the money - which is another reason I think they give Mooney more time.
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If we want to get a coach like Steve Alford who was fired from UCLA then yes, we would have to likely pay at the very minimum $1.2 million. Not something we are going to do.Then there are coaches like Wes Miller who makes 300K at UNC-G or Nate Oats who makes 600K at Buffalo. Nate Oats will likely have other P6 teams wanting him who would be willing to pay him about about 1.2 million initially, which is not we are going to do realistically. Only way we can get these coaches is if major donors want to help pay for the contract.

Most likely we need to find an up-and-coming coach who isn't already highly sought after and give them a pay raise that'll put them around the 500-600K range to start -- with the ability to increase salary on performance. So that's coaches like Wes Miller, Matt McMahon, Nathan Davis (we may be willing to pay more since we have the Bucknell connection), Jason Wiliford, TJ Otzelberger, Jeff Boals.

So unless we get donor money to help get a big name coach off the bat, here's the realistic coaches watch list of coaches we can afford and who would want to come here i.e. not having other P6 team wanting the coach too. I also took out coaches that have been at a school for awhile since they are less likely to leave and I also took out Nancy Lieberman because I'm not sure how interested she would be in the job here - though she would be a fantastic head coach.

1. Matt McMahon - Murray State
2. Wes Miller - UNC-Greensboro
3. Nathan Davis - Bucknell
4. Jason Williford - Associate Head coach at UVA
5. Jeff Boals - Stony Brook
6. TJ Otzelberger - South Dakota State
7. Bob Richey - Furman
8. Mike Jones - Radford
 
SpiderTrap said:
The other big question will be - if UR decides to get rid of Mooney and buyout his contract, how much will they be willing to spend on the next coach? The lists and top candidates here, they will want close to the same if not more on an annual basis than Mooney was getting. A new coach in demand will know what the previous coach was making and will want the same if not more. So that means UR will have to be willing to spend the money, and it doesn't seem like they love doing that for Athletics. OR - will UR try to save some money on the new coach, meaning they will drop the pay down, which means we probably then are looking at 4th, 5th, 6th options. A guy like Nathan Davis, who will likely be in the running for a few jobs if the Bison make the NCAA tourney - he will command near 1 million from UR to be considered.
I just have a hard time believing UR will spend the money - which is another reason I think they give Mooney more time.
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Again from what I'm hearing there is a group lead by Paul Queally who is willing to spend a lot of money. I am very excited about what that might mean for our next coach.
 
BSHSpider15 said:
Again from what I'm hearing there is a group lead by Paul Queally who is willing to spend a lot of money. I am very excited about what that might mean for our next coach.
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Again, I hope your source is right. I think Mo and others on here have heard that Mooney might be given another year regardless of outcome. I guess we'll see.

But the bigger picture of what you're saying is spot on in my opinion. The best way major donors can see results from the money that they are giving, is if their money goes towards getting a big time coach/recruiter to come here for 5 years or so. Especially if you couple that with the practice facility we will have. Great Facilities + Great Coach/Recruiter = Success.
 
17, u love to be the arbiter of lists like it's the final list. And that's cool but realize too there are PLENTY of other names. Also anyone of those prospective coaches is looking at more than 500k. We will have to pay more. If we had to step up to pay a lot for a home run that is maybe outside of realistic expectation I hope we do but skeptical of that myself, and more importantly doubt Hardt has the cojones. I'm sure we'll be looking to save off what Mooney gets but I just don't see it being some crazy difference.
 
GKiller said:
17, u love to be the arbiter of lists like it's the final list. And that's cool but realize too there are PLENTY of other names. Also anyone of those prospective coaches is looking at more than 500k. We will have to pay more. If we had to step up to pay a lot for a home run that is maybe outside of realistic expectation I hope we do but skeptical of that myself, and more importantly doubt Hardt has the cojones. I'm sure we'll be looking to save off what Mooney gets but I just don't see it being some crazy difference.
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I only continue updating the list because I like having a concise place to see all the coaches posters on this board like and have recommended. In no way am I suggesting that this is the only list of coaches we should/will consider or anything like that.
 
spiderstudent17 said:
I only continue updating the list because I like having a concise place to see all the coaches posters on this board like and have recommended. In no way am I suggesting that this is the only list of coaches we should/will consider or anything like that.
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You are not proposing yourself as the sole member of a search committee? :D
 
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spiderstudent17 said:
I only continue updating the list because I like having a concise place to see all the coaches posters on this board like and have recommended. In no way am I suggesting that this is the only list of coaches we should/will consider or anything like that.
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Luv ya 17, but "concise" is not a word I freely associate with you.
 
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spiderstudent17 said:
I only continue updating the list because I like having a concise place to see all the coaches posters on this board like and have recommended. In no way am I suggesting that this is the only list of coaches we should/will consider or anything like that.
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No worries. FYI you're the only one who has ever mentioned McMahon or Otzelberger.
 
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ChoppinBroccoli said:
Luv ya 17, but "concise" is not a word I freely associate with you.
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Alright, alright guilty as charged. I tend to ramble occasionally or maybe more than occasionally. You could say I tend to ramble more often than not, or is it the other way around? Oops, doing it again! Maybe I should root for Loyola-Chicago, it only seems right...
 
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The scary part is that I think many members of this board are more invested and doing some very good research compared to possibly our AD. Obviously we all hope Hardt is working it, but honestly think that if Davis doesn't want to come, Hardt could really eff this thing up and we are in for a brutal 3 more seasons at least. And if we wait another year and then a crappy hire, oh boy.
 
SpiderTrap said:
The other big question will be - if UR decides to get rid of Mooney and buyout his contract, how much will they be willing to spend on the next coach? The lists and top candidates here, they will want close to the same if not more on an annual basis than Mooney was getting. A new coach in demand will know what the previous coach was making and will want the same if not more. So that means UR will have to be willing to spend the money, and it doesn't seem like they love doing that for Athletics. OR - will UR try to save some money on the new coach, meaning they will drop the pay down, which means we probably then are looking at 4th, 5th, 6th options. A guy like Nathan Davis, who will likely be in the running for a few jobs if the Bison make the NCAA tourney - he will command near 1 million from UR to be considered.
I just have a hard time believing UR will spend the money - which is another reason I think they give Mooney more time.
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Not true......only a few will demand/deserve mooney money snd foubt we will go there....
 
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And our next new coach is................



wait for it...............





Chris Mooney !!!


Sorry. I just can't shake this gut feeling.
 
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I disagree - based on the list of names being discussed, which I don't doubt includes names that not only UR will be considering, but also other schools - here is what I think in terms of salary expectations. As yo can see - I don't think anyone in this top 10 is going to take less than 800K. You have to factor in their current deals, will they have multiple offers at the end of the year, and if they are assistants - is it better for them to stay put at their current school in hopes of taking over?

And honestly - based on decisions in the past made by UR, such as delaying practice facility, cutting sports, waiting forever to renovate Robins Center - I just don't see them wanting to pay Mooney 3 million NOT TO COACH, and then be paying another coach and staff over 1 million per year. We have the money - but this is one instance I think UR will say we don't have the money.

1. Nate Oats - Buffalo - 1 million plus - he will be in high demand
2. Earl Grant - Charleston- making 400K now, he will be in demand with another appearance. He doesn't leave Charleston for less than 800K
3. Steve Alford - UCLA - 1 million plus - big name, and doesn't need to coach for less
4. Hubert Davis - Assistant at UNC - 1 million plus - big name, and might be waiting for Roy Williams to retire to see if he can land that job.
5. Matt McMahon - Murray State - he makes 400K now, won't leave for less than 800K.
6. Wes Miller - UNC-Greensboro - Getting near 350K now and locked in until 2028-2029, so in total he is owed 2.5 million if he just stays. Don't think he leaves unless you beat that over 3 million, meaning your looking at least 600-700K a year for 5 years.
7. Nathan Davis - Bucknell - 800K plus, if they make NCAA tourney, he will have multiple offers driving up the price
8. Jason Williford - Associate Head coach at UVA - 1 million plus - he is probably making close to 400-500K (articles will say he makes near 300K, but that is just his base salary, at state schools - they get supplemental income from private funds, not state funds. Example - Bennett base salary at UVA is only 400K, but then he gets 1.7 million in supplemental funds). Plus - he might be a lifer on Bennetts staff and would need a home run offer to leave.
9. John Becker - Vermont - makes about 300K a year now, so maybe you can get him for 600K.
10. Nancy Lieberman - Don't think this is realistic.
11. TJ Otzelberger - South Dakota State
12. Rick Stansbury - WKU
13. Bob Richey - Furman
14. Mike Jones - Radford
15. Steve Donahue - Penn
 
BuckinghamPalace said:
What about Richie McKay? Or Griff Aldrich?
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Or Joey Rodriguez. Pull in the good local players. Yes, he doesn't have much experience, but knows the game and has a local following and a good bit of experience in the NCAA's. He is going to be a head coach soon and he's going to be a good one. I'd watch most every game. Again, much more promising than Mooney. The rising star coaches are shooting for much bigger spots.
 
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SpiderDaMan said:
Or Joey Rodriguez. Pull in the good local players. Yes, he doesn't have much experience, but knows the game and has a local following and a good bit of experience in the NCAA's. He is going to be a head coach soon and he's going to be a good one. I'd watch most every game. Again, much more promising than Mooney. The rising star coaches are shooting for much bigger spots.
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Lol. Shaka Smart is more likely. Or Jamion Christian.

Go back to your bath house.
 
Shaka would be be pretty damn interesting. Hope Texas keeps losing so it gets more interesting.
 
SpiderDaMan said:
Or Joey Rodriguez. Pull in the good local players. Yes, he doesn't have much experience, but knows the game and has a local following and a good bit of experience in the NCAA's. He is going to be a head coach soon and he's going to be a good one. I'd watch most every game. Again, much more promising than Mooney. The rising star coaches are shooting for much bigger spots.
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Joey Rodriquez's resume looks a lot like Rob Jones, our esteemed Associate Head Coach, who is in WAY over his head. This is laughable.
 
MolivaManiac said:
Slightly off topic, but i hope Marcus Jenkins lands softly with the coaching change. Good guy and a good coach. I can see plusses and minuses but I hope there is sone consideration by the new coach to retain him.
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If we need to retain an ass. coach to keep some of our core players, he would be my choice. That said, I'm weary of any holder overs from the Mooney culture of softness and competing.
 
nathanw19 said:
I’d take Shaka in a heartbeat.
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No, no, no. There is nothing in his resume that indicates he could succeed at a Richmond or similar. In fact, there is very little to say he'd be successful at all - - especially rebuilding.

Background: Scattered assistant jobs most notably and most recently at Clemson and Florida. No academic powerhouses and no rebuilds he was part of. Came to VCU. He won for sure. But he inherited a program that was very good - - - it got Grant an SEC job. He won at a slightly lesser rate in both OOC and in conference than Grant. He didn't build that program to be clear. And at Texas, where a rebuild was needed he is about .500 overall and 25-35 in conference I believe. He was carried early for one year by getting Mo Bamba which was far from your normal recruiting story (note: I live a few miles from Mo Bamba's high school, am connected to AAU programs and know lots about this recruitment which can be attributed almost exclusively to the coincidence of Smart coaching a National team that included Bomba). The style he was successful with at VCU would require an entirely different player than what we typically recruit (or have cuurently with the exception of JG) and its unclear (at best) that kind of player would want to come to UR and whether Shaka would be hindered at UR by very different admission standards than he had at VCU.

In short - - - I like a whole lot of guys way more than SS! I would take him over Mooney, however.
 
Shaka thrived by out-athleting his opponents. It works at our level. It doesn't work as well in the Big 12 because everyone has great athletes. He could instantly recruit great athletes here and have us at the top of the league immediately. And think how much it would piss off VCU. Just saying.
 
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