How many transfers do we need next season?

[8legs1dream]

I believe BYU has a big donor who is doing this currently with one of the top high school recruits. Don't know if the settlement alters that or not. There are essentially no rules right now in college basketball and football. I don't know any other sports league that operates with no rules regarding player compensation. MLB maybe? Every other sports league has salary caps and structures to promote competitive balance. I hope this settlement is a way back to that.

Yeah they are paying one of the top freshman prospects coming in next season like 7 million I hear 🤑

 

[Eight Legger]

Yeah, it feels like the window to try to go all in with $$ is going to be a small one. Next season and maybe one more before there are some standards applied, at which time I expect things will pretty much shake out to the way they've always been. Either the top schools will offer the most money and everyone else will fall in line beneath them, or everyone will be able to offer a similar amount, in which case kids still will choose the biggest/best programs they can.

If there's a way for the URs of the world to get an advantage, it's during this (brief?) period when there are no rules and we could just throw huge bucks at a couple great players, hopefully make a deep run and get on the national radar for when things even out again. Maybe that buys us some longevity even then.

 

[spiderstudent17]

yes, if we somehow have the money to outbid a P5 of course we have a chance.
but I'll believe that when I see it.
I don't even think we'll outbid VCU and GMU level teams.

If we aren’t dumb with how we spend our money it’s certainly doable. This might be an extreme example, but let’s say we are operating under the assumption we are allocating $3 million a year for MBB like other A10 schools. Who’s to say we can’t find 2 absolute studs and give them a million each. The other million can be split among the current roster.

The question is whether we go the “let’s give everyone capri suns” route where players are paid the same just for being in the program longer despite talent level difference or pay players their worth to what they bring to the program, even if it means hurt feelings. If it’s the former, then yes this will be more of the same.

 

[97spiderfan]

If we aren’t dumb with how we spend our money it’s certainly doable. This might be an extreme example, but let’s say we are operating under the assumption we are allocating $3 million a year for MBB like other A10 schools. Who’s to say we can’t find 2 absolute studs and give them a million each. The other million can be split among the current roster.

The question is whether we go the “let’s give everyone capri suns” route where players are paid the same just for being in the program longer despite talent level difference or pay players their worth to what they bring to the program, even if it means hurt feelings. If it’s the former, then yes this will be more of the same.

Interesting question. This year all of our players are getting paid a different amount based on the NIL contract. It will be interesting to see how we and others do this going forward. In a sports based competition model, the best players get paid the most. I hope that is how it works at least.

 

[spiderman]

If we aren’t dumb with how we spend our money it’s certainly doable. This might be an extreme example, but let’s say we are operating under the assumption we are allocating $3 million a year for MBB like other A10 schools. Who’s to say we can’t find 2 absolute studs and give them a million each. The other million can be split among the current roster.

The question is whether we go the “let’s give everyone capri suns” route where players are paid the same just for being in the program longer despite talent level difference or pay players their worth to what they bring to the program, even if it means hurt feelings. If it’s the latter, then yes this will be more of the same.

You might not keep other good players on the roster.
Rutgers has 2 of the top college basketball players in the country ... and can't win.

And I think that if we and VCU and GMU say we'll pay $3M ... then the P5 will say "oh, we'll make it $6M".

 

[SpiderGuy]

Ok. Your logic makes sense. I happen to believe that we have very little high end talent on our roster, so even if all of our current rostered players get better with development, they still are not going to be able to compete with the best teams in our conference.

They probably all won't leave but I'd rather lose some and at least have the opportunity to pick up players with a chance to be upper echelon A-10 players, I vote for that. You need multiple all A-10 level players if you wanna finish Top 3-4 in the league, we have none on this roster (that I see).

We might not be better next year with a slew of incoming transfers, but next year is a wash already given the state of the roster, so I'm looking at 2 years down the road.

The 2 years down the road you referenced is about the time for the next extension. Somebody plz help us break this disastrous cycle.

 

[8legs1dream]

The Next Greatest Class Ever™ will lead Moon's contract situation to the promised land!

 

[97spiderfan]

The 2 years down the road you referenced is about the time for the next extension. Somebody plz help us break this disastrous cycle.

I think if he lays out another non-competitive team like he did this year his seat is hot. But yes, that is Mooney's plan and what he will try to sell Hardt and Queally.

 

[spiderstudent17]

You might not keep other good players on the roster.
Rutgers has 2 of the top college basketball players in the country ... and can't win.

And I think that if we and VCU and GMU say we'll pay $3M ... then the P5 will say "oh, we'll make it $6M".

As the pie gets bigger sure (meaning NCAA increases $20 million limit to $30 million). But football will always take priority and they won’t cut into that budget too much for basketball. There are a lot of good basketball players in this world. $1 million was more on the extreme example to prove my point, but we can definitely pay good money for the players we really want. Our priority should always be to keep the players on our roster who are very good first. So trying to keep a Tyler Burton for $500K for instance. But for the others, I wouldn’t try and bend over backwards to keep them happy with NIL. They can either accept and be happy with what they get, work harder to increase their NIL value, or transfer.

 

[spiderstudent17]

I think if he lays out another non-competitive team like he did this year his seat is hot. But yes, that is Mooney's plan and what he will try to sell Hardt and Queally.

I might be in the minority opinion here, but I actually think this idea that Mooney can talk his way out of things won’t fly as much with NIL. Before, donors who were giving to the athletic department in general (not for specific NIL) or even the university probably were more patient in ways because they didn’t have a direct investment in the performance of the team. There was also the academic excuse or players needing time to learn the system. Now, money is going directly to paying players so there is no confusion about it.

Money talks and the rest walks and you can only BS people so much when they’re giving you money with the sole purpose of getting better players. How do you think the conversation will go between Mooney and the board/donors who have him $3 million only to see us have another 20 loss season? “Hey, sorry I wasted all your money but I promise I’ll do better next time. Trust me just wait another 2-3 years.” This won’t fly as much this time around.

 

[72Spider]

In one of his more recent interviews Mooney mentioned the college game becoming pro basketball. His demeanor suggested that he absolutely hates where the game is headed. I think he knows he is on the clock.

 

[spiderstudent17]

Is what I’m saying making sense to people or am I completely out of my mind? We have an opportunity now that has never been the case before, which is we can not only openly pay for players but be on the same level as P5s financially. We absolutely have the money to go and get really good players and also keep our really good players on the roster happy. However, it’ll require a mentality shift from thinking that everyone is a winner and should all get the same NIL based on years in the program to the best players will get paid more even if it hurts some people’s feelings. A bench player for us should absolutely not be getting more just because they’ve been at UR for 4 years vs. a 4 star top high school recruit or top college transfer who we know will make an immediate impact. And this idea that Mooney can convince the BoT and donors to keep giving him that much money despite continued poor results, won’t fly as much now.

 

[GKiller]

Is what I’m saying making sense to people or am I completely out of my mind? We have an opportunity now that has never been the case before, which is we can not openly pay for players but be on the same level as P5s financially. We absolutely have the money to go and get really good players and also keep our really good players on the roster happy. However, it’ll require a mentality shift from thinking that everyone is a winner and should all get the same NIL based on years in the program to the best players will get paid more even if it hurts some people’s feelings. A bench player for us should absolutely not be getting more just because they’ve been at UR for 4 years vs. a 4 star top high school recruit or top college transfer who we know will make an immediate impact. And this idea that Mooney can convince the BoT and donors to keep giving him that much money despite continued poor results, won’t fly as much now.

if u really want a new mentality u need a new coach. Mooney has told us his mentality over and over. More NIL to guys that stay. Back to 4-5 year players. Good guys. Stay the course, don't adapt schematically.

Believe him

 

[spider23]

I think one issue is that Mooney likely will not be all in on the "pay the heck out of the star players" mode. Even if the big donors tell him to do so, he still has to sell the portal transfers on coming. And like Sman, I am not convinced that we will have more to pay the players than the power schools. Even if there is this salary cap concept - I think an SEC team will still find a way to outbid us if they need a guy. Really critical to identify the hidden gems like King - though again not sure that was not a one time find.

 

[8legs1dream]

Money talks and the rest walks and you can only BS people so much when they’re giving you money with the sole purpose of getting better players. How do you think the conversation will go between Mooney and the board/donors who have him $3 million only to see us have another 20 loss season? “Hey, sorry I wasted all your money but I promise I’ll do better next time. Trust me just wait another 2-3 years.” This won’t fly as much this time around.

Well, he has had zero trouble navigating these conversations regarding his salary for the past 20 years. You want to talk about wasted money.

 

[spiderman]

Is what I’m saying making sense to people or am I completely out of my mind?

I think you're greatly underestimating the amount the big schools will be willing to spend on NIL.
And I have serious doubts a school our size (who currently counts on a very small number of donors for NIL) can keep up.

 

[spiderstudent17]

I'll try and address these in one post rather than replying to each comment. If Mooney wants to stick the course and ride with 4-5 year guys and not either bring in the right players for his system or adapt his system, then he will have results like this every year and should retire, or rightfully, be fired. In my eyes, Mooney deserves another chance this year to see if 2 years ago was a fluke or not. Another abysmal season like this one then I think he should be let go or after 2 mediocre (but not as abysmal seasons).

Conversation now isn't the same as the past 20 years because money is going directly to getting better players to win. So if we don't get better players and win, then there aren't other excuses to hide behind. That falls on him as the coach. Also I think the donors/BoT giving NIL will be less forgiving and want to see better results with the investments, otherwise UR would not have opted into the house settlement in the first place.

I am only basing my analysis off of reports I've seen, which is many power conference schools will follow Georgia's model of how NIL is allocated and that is giving the vast majority to football and about $3 million for basketball and many programs in A10 will allocate $3 million. If that changes and schools are giving $10 million for basketball, then yes we won't compete. If a school like BYU has a donor who wants to give an additional $7 million for the top recruit in the class, then yes we won't compete. But we were never getting the Cooper Flagg's of the world or other 5 stars anyway. There are a lot of talented players in this country who we can get. Think of people like Ian Schieffelin, a 3 star recruit, who went to Clemson. We were in his top 5 along with Clemson, App State, Dayton, and Virginia Tech. Maybe Clemson would have offered $200K or something because they have other top players on their rosters they want to keep or other top recruits that they would prioritize first. If we had NIL back then, we could've offered him $500K if we really wanted him.

 

[Spiders4ever]

Leafy colleges, with difficult admissions and academic standards aren't for everyone.

 

[SpiderGuy]

if u really want a new mentality u need a new coach. Mooney has told us his mentality over and over. More NIL to guys that stay. Back to 4-5 year players. Good guys. Stay the course, don't adapt schematically.

Believe him

More than telling us his mentality, Mooney has showed us his mentality, and look at the results. Sorry but after a pathetic basketball year my frustration is showing. The thing is how can anyone other than enablers and those who slice and dice data really have long term confidence in this program? JC, it’s been 20 years, and look at where we are and look at the discussion points.

 

[Dudeness]

In one of his more recent interviews Mooney mentioned the college game becoming pro basketball. His demeanor suggested that he absolutely hates where the game is headed. I think he knows he is on the clock.

There was an ESPN+ article a week or so ago about coaching landscape, current openings, likely openings, 5050s, and then some potential retirements. Mooney and Anthony Grant were in that section.

Im not buying it, and he still seems pretty engaged on game day, albeit also still awful. Id be shocked if he gave up the money on the table too, but just saying it was there.