My sources...
- Thread starter spider23
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I think the endowment is more like your IRA after retirement. you definitely want it to continue to grow, but it's not just a number. you draw down about 4% of it each year. so the size of your endowment definitely has an effect on your current financial situation.
size always matters.
So draw down of 3B is 4% - that is 120 Million each year. So in a pandemic or dire situation - even if you doubled that - and said - lets take down 8% to get another 120 million out for costs we can't cover or to help athletics - your still talking at the end of day - still having a 2.5B endowment. BUT - that probably drops you in the rankings quite a bit, and again - there in lies the measuring stick.
Point being - these schools with large endowments, now would be the time to use them more than you have before - to help with costs associated with pandemic, to keep people on payroll, to keep sports going, to lower tuition for kids with parents who lost their jobs - etc. But the fact is - if you do that, your number gets smaller. And like you said - size does matter and bigger is better. Use the endowment - and it gets smaller.
Point being - these schools with large endowments, now would be the time to use them more than you have before - to help with costs associated with pandemic, to keep people on payroll, to keep sports going, to lower tuition for kids with parents who lost their jobs - etc. But the fact is - if you do that, your number gets smaller. And like you said - size does matter and bigger is better. Use the endowment - and it gets smaller.
Okay folks, I was a polisci major. What does it matter if our ranking goes down as long as we have a couple of billion dollars in our endowment?
The others are not going down - other schools are doing the same thing. Trying as hard as possible not to use their endowment to keep their ranking where it is - or even better, hoping other schools use their endowments and if you don't - you can jump up a few spots.
Investment returns currently provide nearly 40% of UR’s overall budget...about $120 million per year and more than they take in net from tuition and fees.
Tapping the endowment to any appreciable extent would be an absolute last ditch option, as you’re sacrificing ongoing income for years to come.
Believe I saw UR has spent about $10 million preparing to reopen. I don’t know where that money has come from, but while substantial, it’s still fairly small relative to the $300 million annual budget.
Tapping the endowment to any appreciable extent would be an absolute last ditch option, as you’re sacrificing ongoing income for years to come.
Believe I saw UR has spent about $10 million preparing to reopen. I don’t know where that money has come from, but while substantial, it’s still fairly small relative to the $300 million annual budget.
As noted the 8% return( reasonable under professional management) on $3 bil is $240 million. Divide that by 3200 under grads and that is $76,000 per student (per year)which just about tuition. How the return is deployed is legitimate inquiry. For instance if you look at the various job titles of the admin support staff, it is hard to figure our what some of these people do. Questioning whether these positions and other expenditures are ordinary and necessary and not just "fluff" to achieve rankings and some pseudo status is legitimate. There has been much discussion regarding Universities with large endowments(not just UR) as to the morality of the management and it is totally appropriate. More transparency is needed. This would benefit all stakeholders(students, donors,dtc, et) in a particular institution
Believe, we would tap the endowment if we needed to. If there is one thing, I've learned in my nearly 30 plus year history with it, is that money never seems to be a much of an object if the university wants to do something.
UR's assets are almost exactly 50/50 between restricted and unrestricted, although that's not all endowment/cash...10% or so of the total consists of university property/buildings/equipment.
https://controller.richmond.edu/about/FY19-Consolidated-Financial-Statements-with-Footnotes.pdf
I miss the days when schools were ranked based on the hotness of coeds.
I’m glad we have a great endowment. But it’s hard to feel like we are in any sort of desperate times here when we have so much in the bank. I understand we want as big an endowment as possible and we want to keep it where it is at worst, etc. But at some point, it seems disingenuous to ask for more donations now instead of just tapping into your massive bank account to get through the hard times. Come ask for donations when things get better.
If I win a million dollars tomorrow and then ask all my friends to start a gofundme to pay my car loan, what kind of response do you think I’ll get?
If I win a million dollars tomorrow and then ask all my friends to start a gofundme to pay my car loan, what kind of response do you think I’ll get?
"Hot" and "Westhampton" were words seldom used in the same sentence when I was at UR (1972-76).
And I gladly admit that I was so socially inept with the other sex that I was out of my league with almost every single Westhampton student, hot or not, at the time. That's probably why I had virtually no social interaction with anyone at WC before their class of 1978 enrolled.
There clearly was a difference in the WC student admitted before 1975, and admitted afterward. I have tons of WC friends from the Class of 1978, but none at all from my own class.
W&M cutting seven sports after this year...men's and women's gymnastics, men's and women's swimming, men's indoor and outdoor track and field, and volleyball.
https://tribeathletics.com/news/202...orts-following-the-2020-21-academic-year.aspx
https://tribeathletics.com/news/202...orts-following-the-2020-21-academic-year.aspx
Very disappointing to see. There are some highly competitive programs among that mix. William and Mary's track team has always been among the strongest in the mid-atlantic. W&M also hosts the Colonial Relays, which is among the most prestigious meets on the east coast each spring.
I also understand that W&M swimming has won 6 straight CAA championships.
Bigger picture, i think there still have to be a bunch of shoes to drop elsewhere. How in the world can schools like JMU and ODU carry athletics budgets so much larger than W&M when W&M has far deeper financial resources? I know the answer - student fees. Are those 'student fees' for athletics sustainable in this environment?
Exactly. One of my friends is an accountant at Penn and says most people don’t realize that a significant portion of that is earmarked for whatever project the donor specified. You can’t just take it and use it for something else.
Minnesota cuts four men's sports: indoor/outdoor T&F, gymnastics, and tennis.
gophersports.com
An Open Letter to the University of Minnesota Athletics Community - University of Minnesota Athletics
University of Minnesota is announcing sport-offering adjustments.
I'd cut outdoor Track in Minnesota even if I was on the team...Minnesota cuts four men's sports: indoor/outdoor T&F, gymnastics, and tennis.
An Open Letter to the University of Minnesota Athletics Community - University of Minnesota Athletics
University of Minnesota is announcing sport-offering adjustments.
Requires a subscription, but very well written article by a WM alum about cutting non revenue sports. Puts the funding of a football program on blast and its hard to disagree with him IMO. I don't want to get to a point where schools just have football and Men's/Women's basketball.
RTD article
RTD article
Tough to charge for those "student fees", when all of your classes are online.
Thanks for the heads up. I had heard the W&M swimming program was essentially self funded and this article gives some specifics. Definitely can see that the swimming alums give back to the program as well. Wonder how many of the revenue sports members do?
Look at the University of Miamis football program for a good example. Probably per capita this century has the most pros and some of the worst facilities in BCS.
Unfortunately we went through this around a decade ago with Soccer/Track/CC being dropped. I still think its one of the most shameful chapters (extracurricularly speaking) in Richmond's history. disappointed we just didn't add women's volleyball but the pinheads had already made up their minds that more sports = bad, so just cut three and add one. Oh and that one just happens to be a favorite of our schools biggest benefactor, 0 conflict of interest there. Not sure it was worth losing Bobby Ukrop off the board.
JMU did it in pursuit of FCS dominance and WM did it as a cost cutting measure. Unfortunately going to see more of this, not less at every level of football.
Keep in mind that this was done just in time for this benefactor’s son to be an incoming freshman the first year of the lacrosse team. One man had the power and money to do all of this so that his son could go to his alma mater and play lacrosse. Definitely a very questionable situation
For sure. If I recall correctly, though, the decision was made and given 0 notice to the respective teams with little time to save the programs. And I believe soccer actually came up with the funds to save it and were still given the middle finger. Its all so long ago though some of the details were foggy. I still remember working at 950 the morning news broke the board were voting on moving to the patriot league for football. Thankfully the outrage and reaction saved the football program. Imagine had we dropped to the patriot. No national title to speak of. Unfortunately the other three sports were not afforded the same luxury.
I would expect this from a small school with money issues. For a school with the endowment we have we should not, in my opinion, be letting one man write a blank check to hastily add a sport for his son to play and have to cut other teams with long traditions. After that happened I spent the rest of the year looking to transfer because I was disgusted with Richmond but ultimately decided to stay. I still think it is a huge stain and embarrassment on the university and myself and others in my year actively root against the lacrosse team. I know it isn’t the fault of the players or coach, but I cannot bring myself to support that decision in any way
Good stuff Ply, walking into Billions probably should not come with the ability to influence a school in such a manner.........but it does. Did his son even get PT??? At least he was able to support Mooney for multiple years, while not really supporting him while the admin ran all the eff over him.
I would like to see athletic departments slash overhead before they slash sports. Look at this Directory of Tribe Athletics employees:
tribeathletics.com
"Senior Associate Athletics Director for Student Services"
"Coordinator of Athletics Strategies, Chief of Staff"
"Senior Advisor, Special Projects"
"HR Client Partner"
3 Business Managers
A Media Relations Department that runs 10 deep.
8-person Tribe Club Staff
I think we run our department a bit leaner than this but if i was a Tribe Supporter, i'd be livid seeing this bloated payroll and then cutting successful Olympic programs that essentially pay for themselves because of tuition paid by Student Athletes.
Staff Directory - William & Mary Athletics
The official Roster for the William & Mary The Tribe
tribeathletics.com
"Senior Associate Athletics Director for Student Services"
"Coordinator of Athletics Strategies, Chief of Staff"
"Senior Advisor, Special Projects"
"HR Client Partner"
3 Business Managers
A Media Relations Department that runs 10 deep.
8-person Tribe Club Staff
I think we run our department a bit leaner than this but if i was a Tribe Supporter, i'd be livid seeing this bloated payroll and then cutting successful Olympic programs that essentially pay for themselves because of tuition paid by Student Athletes.
I think it is cause and effect. If Queally doesn’t donate for the specific purpose of a men’s lacrosse team then those sports do not get cut. Sure, his donation didn’t say “only for lacrosse if you also cut track and soccer” and i would never argue that, but his donation is what made those others happen. In my eyes the university wanted to keep their potentially biggest donor over the next 50 years happy. I bet they’d like a do-over and add a women’s team so they could have kept Ukrops around
I think it’s pretty obvious that lacrosse has proven to be by far the better fit for our school, and nationally.
I don’t remember us getting anywhere with either of the sports that were cut.
I for one, hated seeing any sport cut, but I think the validity of the decision has been proven.
I don’t remember us getting anywhere with either of the sports that were cut.
I for one, hated seeing any sport cut, but I think the validity of the decision has been proven.
There are also only 73 D1 lacrosse teams. There are 206 D1 soccer teams. So being in the prestigious “top 25” in lacrosse means a whole lot less than top 25 in basketball or soccer. If we had finished the year top 50 every year under Mooney people would be damn happy. Finishing at 50 in lacrosse in D1 is a bad season. Can’t compare apples to oranges here to state we are successful
