I think McGlothin would really benefit from the experience this season. Biggest jump is between freshman and soph seasons. Next year will again be freshman season. Just not getting this decision.
Burn the Shirts
- Thread starter spider23
- Start date
It probably only matters if these guys are going to get a legit chance to play. I think the experimentation window only lasts until conference play begins, then the coach has to reset and play for seeding. If we fart away that early in conference, another experimentation window opens.
But if they only get 3 mins here and there it’s largely pointless.
Last edited:
I would burn the shirts and likely not redshirt anyone going forward (unless injury occurs) simply because the chances of any HS recruit staying all 4 years are very slim. So by redshirting them - I think you only lose a year of them.
Look at our main rotation players this year - Hunt, Tyne, Beagle, Roche, Neskovic, and Roumoglou. Of those top 6 - only Tyne is a HS recruit of UR. You then move on to Walz and Tanner - probably guys 7-8 right now in the rotation, and they are UR HS Recruits, but they are soph and JR so still a chance they transfer out. I just think in the current portal environment, the idea of redshirting a frosh to help them develop is pretty useless when I am willing to guess less than half of these kids will stick around all 4 years anyways.
Look at our main rotation players this year - Hunt, Tyne, Beagle, Roche, Neskovic, and Roumoglou. Of those top 6 - only Tyne is a HS recruit of UR. You then move on to Walz and Tanner - probably guys 7-8 right now in the rotation, and they are UR HS Recruits, but they are soph and JR so still a chance they transfer out. I just think in the current portal environment, the idea of redshirting a frosh to help them develop is pretty useless when I am willing to guess less than half of these kids will stick around all 4 years anyways.
my understanding is that McGlothin and Robinson CHOSE to redshirt based on expectation of playing time. without injuries that open up major minutes, I'm not forcing them to burn a year to play a few mpg.
it's not like we have wide open holes. if they were clearly better than AP, Dusan, Roche and Tanner already, they'd have been in the rotation from day 1.
it's not like we have wide open holes. if they were clearly better than AP, Dusan, Roche and Tanner already, they'd have been in the rotation from day 1.
Agree.
Just wishful thinking that the answer to the bad start this year is sitting on the bench. If one of the freshmen was a heralded point guard with size, there would be a different discussion.
if they're clearly going to get a lot of time because they look better in practice than AP, Dusan, Roche and Tanner, then they should. but if they're going to get a few garbage time minutes like the 25 minutes Tanner got last year ... then they shouldn't waste the year.
practice, drill, lift, eat right, and get 500 shots up per day.
I think JROB can come in an give us something similar to what Pharoah Compton is doing at SDSU - true freshman impacting games with physicality, athleticism, rebounding. He impacts winning while getting experience. I know we are not supposed to be positive here, but you are probably right - Mooney wouldn't play him because he doesn't look pretty enough on the perimeter. I mean the guys out there are doing just fine and winning a few games.
Guys, it's coming and probably the main reason for the redshirts.
Next Best Class ever. Hashtag #NBC.
100% we are going to get some of this especially after season. The 3 freshman coming in, 2 from right here in Richmond a town that VCU runs. But adding JROB and Bryson to the homegrown talent especially, this is next best class stuff. But they need seasoning and time of course. When they are all juniors watch out. So rest of this season and next 2, bear with the 20 year Dean of A10 coaches, but by 27-28 the system will be cooking. And good timing for the next extension too!
Next Best Class ever. Hashtag #NBC.
100% we are going to get some of this especially after season. The 3 freshman coming in, 2 from right here in Richmond a town that VCU runs. But adding JROB and Bryson to the homegrown talent especially, this is next best class stuff. But they need seasoning and time of course. When they are all juniors watch out. So rest of this season and next 2, bear with the 20 year Dean of A10 coaches, but by 27-28 the system will be cooking. And good timing for the next extension too!
lol, it does look strong on paper!
I'm unfortunately starting to look forward to that already ... way too soon.
my fear though is we'll bring in a bunch of transfers who aren't great but block the freshmen's path.
Yes agree. I already made this point somewhere and was scoffed at. He has already said in an interview that he now thinks things will go back to building through hs recruiting. Again, he was laying the seeds for bad season 1 (this year), bad season 2 (next season with true and RS freshman getting time) and then start turning corner in season 3. Soooo based on Mooney's inability to adapt and be ahead of the curve (how long did he go with just almost completely ignoring the transfer market????, the "match up zone defense" that slowy but surely lost effectiveness until it was a complete disaster, etc ) - We are now supposed to believe he is one step ahead of the comp in going back to building via HS recruiting, and having to wait until these guys develop. Meanwhile, other schools are doing this and winning by supplementing where needed. But Mooney is ahead of the curve. LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!! Good one.
Kind of exactly like this season.lol, it does look strong on paper!
I'm unfortunately starting to look forward to that already ... way too soon.
my fear though is we'll bring in a bunch of transfers who aren't great but block the freshmen's path.
The few reports we had on here GRob was killing it in practice, NIL event, scrimmages. So this "EXPECTATION" was based on Mooney fallacy and inability to value basketball skills that top programs value.
No question, you can still practice, drill, lift, eat right, and get 500 shots a day when redshirting, but there has to be a difference in a guy's mindset if he is redshirting or not. And, I agree 25 minutes for the season does nothing for you, but these are 18 year old kids. I think there has to be a little less desire somewhere with the things you mentioned above knowing you won't play regardless. Where is the incentive to take 700 shots and not 500? Where is the incentive to go all out every single minute of practice? It would be easy for complacency to set in for these guys, not because they don't care and don't want it badly enough, but because they are 18 years old, new to college, and know they will get 0 minutes no matter what.
Cmon, 23. It happens. Not every recruit will pan out. Are you seriously getting on Mooney for taking a chance on GW3? Is that who you mean by GRob? Or maybe you mean our freshmen? Anyway, TJ Power says hi. Have you seen him play? He was a 5 star, top 20 guy that went to Duke, couldn't play there, transferred to UVA and can't get more than a few minutes ( my guess is soon to be 0 minutes) for a bad UVA team. He is terrible. He is slow, non athletic, lazy, and terrible defensively. Who knows why Duke and now UVA thought he could play, but they did. I think, like GW3, the reputation was he can shoot, but sometimes it takes seeing a lot of someone everyday to realize he can't help your team. I still hope GW3 and our freshmen can be a factor here at some point, but I have seen enough of Power to know I would not want him getting any minutes here, and I think the A-10 and mid major 3 star players out there would destroy him. He needs to go from Duke to UVA to a low end D1 school. I wish we could see GW3 and the redshirts this year to maybe find out sooner rather than later how they look.
Last edited:
until I hear otherwise I'm going to assume both are highly self motivated to someday be the best player in the A10, and that they put in the work that all great players put in all season and offseason.
if my assumption is incorrect then we recruited the wrong kids.
you don't redshirt to just take the year off.
I guess you misread my post. I never said anything about taking the year off. I said they are 18 year olds who know they will get 0 minutes this year no matter what, so maybe, just maybe, there will be a day or days where a 100% focus and a 100% desire to be great is not there. Just maybe they won't be in their rooms a few nights taking an extra 30 minutes to review our offensive and defensive sets. I would rather have my freshmen looking at our struggles and thinking, man, I know I can help this team at some point this year. Maybe it is not now, or 3 games from now, but if I keep getting better and better and get some minutes, I am going to be so ready, they will want to give me more and more time. Bottom line is I think redshirting in basketball sucks right now and makes very little sense.
I don't think I misread your post. you believe a redshirting guy doesn't work as hard as a guy hoping for playing time.
the D1 guys I've known will grind regardless. they want to be great.
You don't know that. No one does. That is why I said maybe. November 2025 is a long way away, so yes, I think there is a good chance there might be a time or two this year when a redshirt might not quite be there 100% mentally.
GKiller, it's like you've seen the Mooney playbook before. This is a 100% the narrative he is going to use. It will buy 2-3 years time and by the time we realize or not they 5 guys can actually play at a high level, he got another 3 years at 1.8 million a year in his pocket. And if it doesn't pan out, he will have some other future narrative to sell us at that point.
And I have weighed in on this debate before, and agree more with 4700 vs Sman. The big thing to me is you can't tell me a guy is not mentally sharper if he knows he has to go into a game in front of thousands of spectators. You can't replicate games in practice. And what Jaylen Robinson can get away with vs our guys, he will have to be better against good competition - if we were to schedule good competion - but the Auburns, VCUs, Dayton's etc.
Agreed. If you know you aren't playing for the year, the mental approach is just not as sharp (in my opinion). If they guys were actively competing now for minutes, you can't tell me they wouldn't be approaching practices, work outs and everything else a bit differently. Every game, you have to be physically and mentally prepared to play, what if someone gets hurt. It is a completing different mindset.
Gkiller is 100% on point with the Moon strategy behind this move. He knew in the summer, this team was going to be lackluster and so keeping these guys on redshirt allows him to pump out to everyone, just wait until you see the talent we have next year.
Whereas the reality should be, if these guys could play this year, they would be playing and the fact that they aren't able to get minutes on a team that has a net in the mid 200's, probably should raise a red flag.
Sorry guys, I have a hard time believing that Mooney is playing 3D chess here and intentionally redshirting players to try and push the narrative of keeping his own job down the road because this class will be like the Gilly/Golden/Sherod situation where “one more year” to see great results. I think it’s hard to fully anticipate how any player - especially from high school - will adjust to level college of play and after seeing the way they played against our roster in practice, felt that they would be getting very limited minutes during the season. Because of that, I’m sure they had a conversation about the fact that garbage minutes here and there may not be worth losing a year over and they can take this time to develop more to the college game. A decision McGlothin/Robinson agreed was in their best interest. To say it’s to claim the “one more year. Next best class ever” argument doesn’t carry as much weight nowadays because we have seen many guys (Burton, Dji, Fore) use their last year of eligibility to play at a higher program. So there’s no guarantee they will even stick around anyways.
how'd that work so far for Tanner? he's down a year (for 25 minutes) and doesn't seem more ready from all that extra focus last year.
there's no "one size fits all" answer. redshirts don't always work out. not redshirting after being told you won't likely earn much time doesn't always work out either. they made their decision. they play scout team this year.
LOL...so if G tells u what Mooney is thinking, he must know 100% ( as u said) and have this magic way to read minds, right? So, I guess Mooney is intentionally trying to lose this year to fit this narrative as well, right? You guys are truly unbelievable.
Last edited:
I don't see the correleation? Basically he would be even worse. I think his issue is: Moon excells with guys that are self starters only, not guy's that need to be nurtured and shown what to do. In general most coaches are going to do better with guys that are more aggressive and take matters into their own hands. Tanner is classic Noyes, looking for the next pass 40 feet from the hoop before he even gets the ball. But sitting out a year was going to help this???? It's a mooney crazzyyy world and spidernation is living it.
What does Tanner have to do with anything? And Tanner played behind guys that went 15-3 A-10 and won a regular season title. If we looked like we could do that, I wouldn't be as bothered by not playing our freshmen. But, we are 8 games in and looking bad, struggling big time offensively at times. As excited as I was for all of them, I am now very concerned about the talent level of both freshmen and also GW3 if they can't get minutes on this team this year. Which takes me back to the last post from 97. If Mooney were trying to use the next great class talk with these guys, my first question to him would be then why the heck weren't they great enough to help this flawed team this year?
Last edited:
Right, and who is determining that next year’s class is the starting point for the “next best class ever” and not the class after that or after that? That narrative just doesn’t make sense to me. There is no way I see Mooney intentionally not wanting to play the best roster he can each and every year in order to preserve his job.
I don't know - its just weird as hell how I value guys that are athletic, tough, and can play defense. And most of the basketball world does too. But not Mooney, he just wants shooting and fluidity - and again I POSTED THE ENTIRE duration of Mooney's career against types of programs we should be running with to show that his method is NOT WORKING. Ok, back to small caps. But you get my point. I have pointed out majorly flawed rosters in the past, but for some reason moon can't recruit or has some excuse, or just thinks that fluidity will win out. I was hoping against hope with this roster, but I did point out the major flaw of going form athletic, defensively very good players on the wing never got replaced. Dji. BIgs. And even Harris. Yes, we lost King too. But we would be a lot better if we had some forwards that could guard, make plays, get to the basket, and be tough out there.
VT, I’m having trouble replying to your most recent post of mine. But I don’t think it’s a matter of losing hope for them or not because they aren’t playing this year despite our poor performance to start. I think we simply don’t know yet how they will do because we haven’t seen any game time performance. They may not develop into A10 level player in the next few years or they can be like Justin Harper who didn’t have much of an impact his first 2 years and made significantly more impact his last 2 years. Personally, I’m not reading a lot into them redshirting this year other than the coaching staff and players made a decision that it was in their best interest at this time to continue developing and acclimating to college level basketball more. The longer the season goes on, the harder it is to justify burning the redshirt since there will be fewer and fewer games to showcase themselves.
the assertion was made that you will improve more on the active roster than you can in a redshirt year. we'll never know if Tanner would be worse had he redshirted but he's not killing it coming off the 25 minutes of last season. in my opinion, since Tanner was supposedly given the same option that Robinson and McGlothin had, I think he'd have been better off long term had he taked the shirt like Robinson and McGlothin are doing.
I believe we told these two after watching them for probably 4 months that we thought it would be in their best interest to redshirt. they wouldn't get enough valuable time behind AP, Dusan, Roche, Tanner, etc ...
we thought all of those guys were going to break out. they haven't yet. if you're ready to blow it all up and say "we were wrong about all of those guys" after 8 games, then yeah. I guess you approach the redshirts and say we're ready to give you 25 mpg.
I personally don't go that route. I don't give up on AP, Dusan, Roche and Tanner.
Yep, we will just get the popcorn out with Mooney, pull up a lil old March Madness and watch those VCU Rams, Aztecs, Zags of the world do their thing, while we have a stress free March. Maybe get the pool boy out early this year and open that sucker up early.
and I don't think he would. and he'd have an extra year in his pocket. as a coach and a program, you do want to have a kid's best interest in mind.
I don't know, someone do a study. Let's see how many redshirts (not medical) across NCAA last 5 years turned into players? I mean, SDSU has redshirted a few if I recall, and those guys never seem to get on the court. Mooney does not have some magic developmental strategy, that I will tell you. TJ got better by having access to pros and coaching from top guys. Harp went off to Boston for his big jump. But stay around with Moon and Peter, riggghhhht. I can repost Mooney's 19 year run here - and even give you the plus one NCAA year, but it is not good. It is average.
Nearly all of our really good and great players, and we have had plenty of them, have been developed. You think they were all top 150 recruits? Or even top 300? Most programs see players get better and better as they develop. Ours is no different. To act like Mooney and our program does not develop players is silly.
I hear this argument every year. It’s just empirically inaccurate. We have had guys like Noyes last year who was clearly a miss as a starter. He ended up barely playing even after he was apparently healthy.
Maybe there’s a difference between a bench guy and a way down the bench guy, but there’s been a demonstrable pattern many of the “rebuilding” seasons where the coaching staff misreads who should be getting minutes.
Given that, we should be open to playing everyone. If they still choose to redshirt so be it, but I think guys make the decision when one factor is they’re told how little time they might get. That changes when you tell them they are going to get some run.
