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SFspidur said:
Article says there were 47 participants in women's rowing.

There were 29 in men's swimming, probably around 10 in tennis, and maybe around the same for XC? XC is harder to tell since it overlaps with T&F.
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only 5 score in XC, 2 are referred to as pushers ( can push back the opposing teams scorers). most teams will try for a roster of 10 or more.
 
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Do you think some schools will use COVID as a way to bring in expenses and end goals more in line with their University goals and thinking. Example - if yuor school has 1 or 2 sports that have not been very competitive or good for years. This might be a good way to cut them - blame it on COVID, save money in the process, and if your a school like UR - you decrease the student-athlete population for future enrollment of bringing in more regular, paying students (likely smarter than athletes as well).
I just think a lot of lower level D1 programs have a lot of sports because they feel the need to have them, but really they don't have the money or resources to be competitive in all of them - so why not cut costs and focus on a handful of sports.
 
gospidersgo said:
SF I'm impressed by your persistence in tracking this stuff.
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Thanks...as a minor sport athlete who had the rug pulled out from under him (not due to a pandemic of course), I knew there would be a lot of this. It's unfortunate.

SpiderTrap said:
Do you think some schools will use COVID as a way to bring in expenses and end goals more in line with their University goals and thinking. Example - if yuor school has 1 or 2 sports that have not been very competitive or good for years. This might be a good way to cut them - blame it on COVID, save money in the process, and if your a school like UR - you decrease the student-athlete population for future enrollment of bringing in more regular, paying students (likely smarter than athletes as well).
I just think a lot of lower level D1 programs have a lot of sports because they feel the need to have them, but really they don't have the money or resources to be competitive in all of them - so why not cut costs and focus on a handful of sports.
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That might be part of it, but obviously there are very real budget impacts happening. Some athletic departments are being told to cut X percent of their budget in line with what's happening throughout those schools.

Others like UConn were already in a position where they were saying "we're going to cut the amount of subsidy we're giving to athletics" and then COVID hit on top of that, so in some of those cases it may have accelerated and provided some cover for what was already going to happen or likely to happen.
 
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SpiderK said:
I can understand dumping tennis. Americans lost interest in that sport when Conners and McEnroe retired.
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This is blatantly not true, ignorant, as well as sexist. Sampras and Agassi made it incredibly interesting with vastly different styles and then Americans rallied behind Roddick. Even now without a headlining American man there is Serena Williams who is the most successful singles player of all time. You clearly don’t like the sport and that is ok. But you are not the entire American population and do not speak for them.
 
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"Americans rallied behind Roddick".

I wonder if that statement has ever been written before. Good one.

Did the guy actually win a Grand Slam? I recall him being married to an SI Swimsuit Model but little more.
 
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MolivaManiac said:
"Americans rallied behind Roddick".

I wonder if that statement has ever been written before. Good one.

Did the guy actually win a Grand Slam? I recall him being married to an SI Swimsuit Model but little more.
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Won the 2003 US Open. One trick pony (powerful serve) for the most part and was figured out pretty quickly by the games great of his time. Best match he ever played was in 2009 against Federer at Wimbledon and still lost. Hes more likeable as a TV personality than he was a tennis player. Not even in the same stratosphere as Agassi or Sampras. Not even a top 5 american of all time.

Ply makes some good points about Agassi and Sampras, but the popularity of the game with them wasn't nearly at a fever pitch the way McCenroe and Conners were. Highly suggest reading the book Ashe vs. Conners for any tennis fan. Conners was a grade A @$$hole and still is. As hateable as he was people tuned in to watch him play.

America is a long ways away from their glory days of tennis and no end in sight considering the cost and how little its subsidized.
 
Don’t think it’s fair to say Roddick was a one trick pony (I think that better describes Isner). He won 32 titles in his career. Only the one grand slam but he, like many others, had the misfortune of playing at the same time as 3 of the 5 greatest players of all time. And when he won his only slam he beat JC Ferrero who was at the time #1 in the world. Also despite retiring 8 years ago is still 18th in career earnings.

His career is a disappointment in terms of Slams won, but also have to look at the sheer domination of his opponents. Roddick won the last slam of 2003. From 2004-2012 (when he retired) there were 36 slams. Fed, Nadal, and Djoker won 32 of them!
 
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MolivaManiac said:
"Americans rallied behind Roddick".

I wonder if that statement has ever been written before. Good one.

Did the guy actually win a Grand Slam? I recall him being married to an SI Swimsuit Model but little more.
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You should watch his run in the 2012 US Open. Or ANY US Open that he participated in. I’m not saying he was on the same level as the greats, but at age 21, exactly one year after Sampras retired, Roddick won his only grand slam. That’s when he became “the guy” for American tennis and continued to be so until he retired in 2012. Nobody has picked that up since although Stevie Johnson, Sam Querrey, and others have tried.

Ok back to your scheduled basketball programming
 
plydogg said:
Don’t think it’s fair to say Roddick was a one trick pony (I think that better describes Isner). He won 32 titles in his career. Only the one grand slam but he, like many others, had the misfortune of playing at the same time as 3 of the 5 greatest players of all time. And when he won his only slam he beat JC Ferrero who was at the time #1 in the world. Also despite retiring 8 years ago is still 18th in career earnings.

His career is a disappointment in terms of Slams won, but also have to look at the sheer domination of his opponents. Roddick won the last slam of 2003. From 2004-2012 (when he retired) there were 36 slams. Fed, Nadal, and Djoker won 32 of them!
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Technology has changed so much over the decades its hard to compare how certain players would perform in other eras, which is why I put a ton of weight on how you perform vs your peers and the best in your game. I believe he fails miserabley in that aspect when holding the mantle for American tennis when you compare him to other greats.
 
plydogg said:
This is blatantly not true, ignorant, as well as sexist. Sampras and Agassi made it incredibly interesting with vastly different styles and then Americans rallied behind Roddick. Even now without a headlining American man there is Serena Williams who is the most successful singles player of all time. You clearly don’t like the sport and that is ok. But you are not the entire American population and do not speak for them.
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LMAO. Reaching buddy
 
If the majority of the minor sport athletes are C slot (had the scores to be considered anyway) and we are truly need blind as we state, the number of athletes should not impact our standing at all. It does't seem to harm the reputation of the Ivies. BTW I believe the well rounded student is more likely to be successful in their chosen field.
 
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plydogg said:
This is blatantly not true, ignorant, as well as sexist. Sampras and Agassi made it incredibly interesting with vastly different styles and then Americans rallied behind Roddick. Even now without a headlining American man there is Serena Williams who is the most successful singles player of all time. You clearly don’t like the sport and that is ok. But you are not the entire American population and do not speak for them.
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you're arguing (and way too harshly) that Americans still watch tennis. but are you arguing that American youths are playing tennis? because clearly a very high percentage of US college tennis players are foreign. I don't have stats but kids aren't playing tennis like they used to in my town. heck, half of the courts have been converted to pickleball.
 
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spiderman said:
you're arguing (and way too harshly) that Americans still watch tennis. but are you arguing that American youths are playing tennis? because clearly a very high percentage of US college tennis players are foreign. I don't have stats but kids aren't playing tennis like they used to in my town. heck, half of the courts have been converted to pickleball.
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Oh man pickleball is a hell of a lot of fun and a lot easier for those who are getting up there in age to play. When I visit my parents we always go out and play with their friends and it is a great time. As far as youth, from what I see in Southern California it is thriving. But this area has always been a hotbed of talent and the sport will always be popular here thanks to the weather making it possible to play year round. There’s a huge amount of young American talent (18-23) coming up right now that we haven’t seen since the 90s but still none of them look to be elite talent and only guys who will be around the top 50-100 and maybe peak once or twice in the top 15-20.

I don’t know the reason behind so many international tennis players in college and don’t want to make any false claims, but I know in a lot of Central and Eastern European countries tennis is the #2 or 3 sport, compared to (at best) the 5/6 sport here, so there is a lot of talent to be had. For some of these countries (Serbia, Estonia, Slovakia, Slovenia) they love soccer but their most recognizable athlete is usually a tennis player. Don’t really know where I’m going with this but always enjoy talking tennis!
 
Apologies for continuing to evolve this thread from the original topic, but interesting to see what some other well-heeled liberal arts colleges at the D-III level.

Bowdoin last week announced that only freshmen and transfer students will be on campus in the fall, along with a few other exception like those whose home situations aren't conducive to remote learning. Those students will then do spring semester remotely while the other students come back to campus. Almost all classes will be taught online, even for those students on campus, and all sports canceled through January 1.

https://www.bowdoin.edu/covid-19/messages/06-22-2020.html

Williams announced a similar plan, although it looks like it will largely be up to individual students to decide whether they come back to campus. Either way, students should prepare for classes to be largely online. Athletic travel and competition canceled for the fall semester, although it looks teams may be able to practice in some manner...starting with some small groups and ramping up depending on how reopening goes. Williams is also discounting tuition, room, and board by 15% for the year.

https://www.williams.edu/coronavirus/
 
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I think the most likely scenario to happen is schools welcome students back on campus in one manner or another, and then there is a outbreak. It will only take a handful of kids to get the virus before a panic happens - and then what? Lets say a kid tests positive and then through tracing and other means - you find 15-20 regular students have gotten it. Do you shut down the campus again and send kids home? If so - what about sports - do you tell regular students to leave and take class online at home, but athletes stay so they can practice and compete. Much easier to control and contain just athletes rather than entire student population.
 
I realize the colleges and universities are in a tough spot here but it seems an awful lot like a bait and switch to announce "in classroom education" and then dial it back to where there is very minimal "in classroom education" offered ... even before the 'second wave' comes crashing.
 
Schools need their money - so they are saying come on back to campus - even if it means you stay in your dorm and take classes from your dorm room and not the classroom. They need that tuition and they need those room and board fees. Cause they know parents are not going to be happy about paying 50K a year in tuition and look down the hall in their own house and see their kid on the laptop listening to a lecture. They won't see the 50K value in that even if its Warren Buffett speaking on the other end.
So their only option - invite them back to campus, tell them you will keep them safe and just cross your fingers their is no outbreak and you don't have to send them home.
On a smaller scale - I just heard the Catholic Diocese of Richmond is having all elementary and catholic high schools in the area back to school full time, full capacity. Like nothing happened. Everyone knows that is not safe - but why do it - they need the money more than anyone. Once again - it comes down to money. Even in a pandemic.
 
plydogg said:
This is blatantly not true, ignorant, as well as sexist. Sampras and Agassi made it incredibly interesting with vastly different styles and then Americans rallied behind Roddick. Even now without a headlining American man there is Serena Williams who is the most successful singles player of all time. You clearly don’t like the sport and that is ok. But you are not the entire American population and do not speak for them.
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I'm with spiderK tennis is in a slow decline and has been for decades. And the TV ratings seem to bare that out. Sexist???? come on.
 
MolivaManiac said:
I realize the colleges and universities are in a tough spot here but it seems an awful lot like a bait and switch to announce "in classroom education" and then dial it back to where there is very minimal "in classroom education" offered ... even before the 'second wave' comes crashing.
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With what colleges and universities did to people with tuition increases, I have absolutely no sympathy for them. I am going to miss college sports until this can all get sorted out.
 
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I-M-UR said:
I'm with spiderK tennis is in a slow decline and has been for decades. And the TV ratings seem to bare that out.
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Tennis viewership in the US (including the most viewed US Open ever) reached an all time high in 2019. Youth tennis numbers have also reached an all time high after dropping from 2010-2017. Tennis revenue and prize pools are also an all time high and rapidly growing at a rate that would not indicate a dying sport (such as what happened in Arena Football League’s final years)

I think this topic was exhausted though and don’t think anybody else wants to hear me talk tennis
 
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plydogg said:
Tennis viewership in the US (including the most viewed US Open ever) reached an all time high in 2019. Youth tennis numbers have also reached an all time high after dropping from 2010-2017. Tennis revenue and prize pools are also an all time high and rapidly growing at a rate that would not indicate a dying sport (such as what happened in Arena Football League’s final years)

I think this topic was exhausted though and don’t think anybody else wants to hear me talk tennis
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Ply, you are 'volleying' some nice responses. :)
 
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I-M-UR said:
With what colleges and universities did to people with tuition increases, I have absolutely no sympathy for them. I am going to miss college sports until this can all get sorted out.
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Completely agree. Higher education is failing society on a number of levels and i'm here to watch it get its comeuppance.
 
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MolivaManiac said:
Completely agree. Higher education is failing society on a number of levels and i'm here to watch it get its comeuppance.
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+1 Mo- Also, most universities purposely lack transparency from the admissions process to day to day operations. I would argue Trustees most times are mere rubber stamps for administrators building empires and resumes. I would also argue that they are poor stewards of large endowments where money is being wasted on nonsense such as in repudiating the schools history and former leaders of their schools . The problem appears to be exacerbated in so called elite or prestigious universities. Sometimes universities can have too much money which results in frivolous spending which some might call "immoral" in light of tuition that is charged.
 
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plydogg said:
I think this topic was exhausted though and don’t think anybody else wants to hear me talk tennis
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Non-sense. Tennis and Basketball go together like peaches and cream historically.

Former spider basketball players Josh Dunkier, Jonathan Benjamin, Zach Chu and Drew Crank were all great at tennis. Better than they were at basketball. In fact Crank quit basketball at UR to play tennis. Am I missing any other ones here?

Coach Mooneys wife is known to be a fan of the sport and plays quite a bit. Former assistant Kim Lewis was quite the player back in his day as well. John Lucas former all-american in both sports at Maryland, granted not a UR player.

Who is the best tennis player on this current squad? Me thinks it would be Gustavson. A lot of good fins on the collegiate tennis circuit.
 
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MolivaManiac said:
Completely agree. Higher education is failing society on a number of levels and i'm here to watch it get its comeuppance.
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I saw where UMass and USC (Southern Cal) are both going to completely online learning this Fall. Doesn't bode well for football in the fall, in my opinion.

What kills me about this complete virtual learning option is the impact that this is having on young person's mental health and social development. So much of college is learning how to become an adult, living with other people, on your own, managing yourself entirely.

Tough for that to happen when you are getting virtually instructed in your parent's basement.
 
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I don't disagree - but we must also remember the world as a whole is likely going to change because of this. Overall - I generally go with the saying that its never as bad as you think and never as good as you think. In this case - I don't see virtual learning 100% as an option, but I also don't see 100% on campus and sitting in a classroom as a necessity. It needs to be the right mix and blend and that may differ from student to student. Finding that balance will be the key to the future and will likely take several years to figure it out.
 
plydogg said:
Tennis viewership in the US (including the most viewed US Open ever) reached an all time high in 2019. Youth tennis numbers have also reached an all time high after dropping from 2010-2017. Tennis revenue and prize pools are also an all time high and rapidly growing at a rate that would not indicate a dying sport (such as what happened in Arena Football League’s final years)

I think this topic was exhausted though and don’t think anybody else wants to hear me talk tennis
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I like talking tennis, I've played all my life and in fact still play every week. My former touring pro brother played in the US Open, it's a great sports atmosphere. Australian Open is even better (was there 2 years ago)!
 
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From what I understand, there has not been new construction of new tennis courts in quite a while. Instead of upgrading courts, many operators are removing them.
 
Tennis is certainly booming here in the Triangle. My town is up to 32 courts at its main facility, and they're looking to upgrade and expand several minor court sites at parks around town.

A private developer in Raleigh is seeking to build a massive facility with a total of 70 courts split between tennis and pickleball. It has the backing of the city and USTA, but the challenge as always will be fundraising.
 
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plydogg said:
Tennis viewership in the US (including the most viewed US Open ever) reached an all time high in 2019. Youth tennis numbers have also reached an all time high after dropping from 2010-2017. Tennis revenue and prize pools are also an all time high and rapidly growing at a rate that would not indicate a dying sport (such as what happened in Arena Football League’s final years)

I think this topic was exhausted though and don’t think anybody else wants to hear me talk tennis
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How many tennis events are televised? Not many. It be like football only showing playoff games. How many golf events are on tv? The hay day of tennis has past it might come back.
 
97spiderfan said:
I saw where UMass and USC (Southern Cal) are both going to completely online learning this Fall. Doesn't bode well for football in the fall, in my opinion.

What kills me about this complete virtual learning option is the impact that this is having on young person's mental health and social development. So much of college is learning how to become an adult, living with other people, on your own, managing yourself entirely.

Tough for that to happen when you are getting virtually instructed in your parent's basement.
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If college is about learning to become an adult, there are some humongous failures
 
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