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My sources...

There are also only 73 D1 lacrosse teams. There are 206 D1 soccer teams. So being in the prestigious “top 25” in lacrosse means a whole lot less than top 25 in basketball or soccer.
Good point Ply. However, one could also say that the change to lax was a good choice because UR could make great strides to relevance with similar effort that was producing nothing in the replaced sports. No doubt to me that based on geography the students that attend UR are more likely to play high level lax.

As a local fan, I can tell you seeing some of the power lax schools coming to Robins is more appealing than a track meet.
 
There are also only 73 D1 lacrosse teams. There are 206 D1 soccer teams. So being in the prestigious “top 25” in lacrosse means a whole lot less than top 25 in basketball or soccer. If we had finished the year top 50 every year under Mooney people would be damn happy. Finishing at 50 in lacrosse in D1 is a bad season. Can’t compare apples to oranges here to state we are successful
Did we get anywhere in soccer? I don’t remember us ever being even in the top 50.
But the point about lacrosse is see where the players are coming from. Quite a few are from elite
prep school programs, which is much more attractive to the make-up of our student recruiting (not just
for sport) .
I would have been happy if we could have kept soccer; and track and field is a fairly inexpensive sport to
have, so I didn’t understand that at all. My point is what was the best r.o.i. and I think lacrosse has proven
to be.
 
Apples and oranges. When we killed off soccer, we offer 2 or 3 scholarships that were split among players. Lacrosse offers 3 or 4 times as many scholarships.

When i attended UR in the late 90's, we had a top 25 soccer program. It was surely better funded at that point and later was left to die on the vine.
 
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Apples and oranges. When we killed off soccer, we offer 2 or 3 scholarships that were split among players. Lacrosse offers 3 or 4 times as many scholarships.

When i attended UR in the late 90's, we had a top 25 soccer program. It was surely better funded at that point and later was left to die on the vine.
I didn’t know we had ever reached that level In soccer.
I assume we’re able to offer more scholarships for lacrosse because we also dropped track and field.
It’s a shame we don’t have both.
We also had wrestling- gone, and swimming-gone, and waterpolo, we were one of the best- gone.
So, when you’re a small university you choose the sport that is going to be most advantageous to
your academic recruiting.
 
RVA, I don't disagree from a spectator viewpoint, and I don't support doing away with LAX. But if we are truly about the STUDENT experience, all of those soccer, t&F athletes had their world shattered.
 
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RVA, I don't disagree from a spectator viewpoint, and I don't support doing away with LAX. But if we are truly about the STUDENT experience, all of those soccer, t&F athletes had their world shattered.

I lived on the 3rd floor of Marsh my freshman year and my next door neighbors were on track and cross country and were devastated. I only knew a couple soccer players but not very well. They were really torn as they loved their sport but now had to choose between staying or transferring. A much tougher decision on a 19 year old than a full fledged adult
 
I didn’t know we had ever reached that level In soccer.
I assume we’re able to offer more scholarships for lacrosse because we also dropped track and field.
It’s a shame we don’t have both.
We also had wrestling- gone, and swimming-gone, and waterpolo, we were one of the best- gone.
So, when you’re a small university you choose the sport that is going to be most advantageous to
your academic recruiting.

Well, we also added a sport that has little-to-no racial diversity to the detriment of two sports that had racial and international diversity component, as well. Seems counter to basically the rest of the mission at UR at this point.

Bottom line is Ayers wanted money for a new Admissions building. Queally had money for the admissions building but also wanted lacrosse. Queally didn't want to get rid of soccer and track. He just wanted to add a sport. Ayers and the "Academians" couldn't stand the thought of having more student-athletes on campus so Lacrosse arrived and Soccer and Track died.

Ayers got his admissions hall and dealt with some blowback. Queally got his lacrosse program and (wrongly) got some blowback.

Aside- the first weekend i arrived on campus at UR in Fall 1997, we had a 4-team soccer tournament on campus. Ohio State was one of the schools that came in. I cannot recall the other two, but they both had national pedigree. Great crowds and competitive games under the lights. Richmond soccer was humming in the 90's.
 
Well, we also added a sport that has little-to-no racial diversity to the detriment of two sports that had racial and international diversity component, as well. Seems counter to basically the rest of the mission at UR at this point.

Bottom line is Ayers wanted money for a new Admissions building. Queally had money for the admissions building but also wanted lacrosse. Queally didn't want to get rid of soccer and track. He just wanted to add a sport. Ayers and the "Academians" couldn't stand the thought of having more student-athletes on campus so Lacrosse arrived and Soccer and Track died.

Ayers got his admissions hall and dealt with some blowback. Queally got his lacrosse program and (wrongly) got some blowback.

Aside- the first weekend i arrived on campus at UR in Fall 1997, we had a 4-team soccer tournament on campus. Ohio State was one of the schools that came in. I cannot recall the other two, but they both had national pedigree. Great crowds and competitive games under the lights. Richmond soccer was humming in the 90's.
I‘ve said that I wasn’t happy with the loss of our soccer or our loss of T & F, but the nature of our “private university “ is far more suited for lacrosse.
There is no question, it must have been devastating to the students that were here for those two sports, as it was for the swimmers, wrestlers, water polo players, etc. But, we’re discussing something that happened 7 years ago.
It’s water over the dam.
 
Granted t&f is much more of an individual sport, and in the US not considered a spectator sport. I don't believe t&F ever had more than 2 schollies total (not each year, but total), in spite of that with many walk-ons making up the teams they were generally strong academically AND produced a number of All-Americans. I ran on a 2 mile relay team ranked 10th nationally and we were far from the best on the team at that time., Carl Wood was rated #3 in the world in the IM hurdles, ran on the USA team. There were many more great athletes, all done at little cost to the university. Did it add to the recognition of the University, only on a very very small basis, did it create community excitement, only on a very very small basis, but it added tremendously to the STUDENT experience.
 
There are also only 73 D1 lacrosse teams. There are 206 D1 soccer teams. So being in the prestigious “top 25” in lacrosse means a whole lot less than top 25 in basketball or soccer. If we had finished the year top 50 every year under Mooney people would be damn happy. Finishing at 50 in lacrosse in D1 is a bad season. Can’t compare apples to oranges here to state we are successful

Our MLAX program has beaten the likes of ND,Duke,UNC, and UVa in its 6 year history.I doubt a UR MSoccer team or a MBball team has ever successfully attempted to beat these caliber teams over any 6 year period.Forget about the quantity of teams in each sport.The measure of excellence is the consistency of winning.It doesn’t say much to be better rated better than 280 NCAA D1 basketball teams.Make me yawn.
 
Annap- I don't disagree that it's 'water over the dam'. I'm just trying to 'realign' some of what's being pedaled here.

Men's track had a single half-scholarship that was fully-endowed by track alumni and awarded to a senior each year. I'm proud to have been one of the recipients of that scholarship.

I surmise those funds were rolled into a "Business" or "Diversity Officer" position when the sport got scuttled ... or are simply used to support higher cost programs now.
 
Granted t&f is much more of an individual sport, and in the US not considered a spectator sport. I don't believe t&F ever had more than 2 schollies total (not each year, but total), in spite of that with many walk-ons making up the teams they were generally strong academically AND produced a number of All-Americans. I ran on a 2 mile relay team ranked 10th nationally and we were far from the best on the team at that time., Carl Wood was rated #3 in the world in the IM hurdles, ran on the USA team. There were many more great athletes, all done at little cost to the university. Did it add to the recognition of the University, only on a very very small basis, did it create community excitement, only on a very very small basis, but it added tremendously to the STUDENT experience.
I remember Carl Wood, he was fantastic, but if memory serves me, he was on a football scholarship that allowed him to also participate in t & f.
 
you are correct, there were a number of football players that competed on the t&f teams during that era. But Carl blew his knee out and was unable to continue in football, moved over to t&f. He also competed in the decathlon, my recollection is that he was rated #10 in the world in that event also.
 
when cut in 2012, soccer had 1 winning season since 2003 according to JOC. that's easier to compare apples to apples with lacrosse.

BS. What are the relative budgets and scholarship allotments? Come on.

My argument is that any sport at UR, if property supported financially and otherwise, can be successful. I'm not trying to re-litigate which mix of sports that we have at UR and i'm generally supportive of Lacrosse.

But this is a whole new ballgame. Richmond Soccer and Track were not afforded the opportunity to compete at the highest level. Lax is.
 
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doesn't matter. if soccer wasn't appropriately funded to succeed, I don't see the argument to keep it over a lacrosse program that would be appropriately funded.
 
Our MLAX program has beaten the likes of ND,Duke,UNC, and UVa in its 6 year history.I doubt a UR MSoccer team or a MBball team has ever successfully attempted to beat these caliber teams over any 6 year period.Forget about the quantity of teams in each sport.The measure of excellence is the consistency of winning.It doesn’t say much to be better rated better than 280 NCAA D1 basketball teams.Make me yawn.

Quantitatively, yes it does. If there are fewer schools than there is more talent to go around. It’s simple economics. The argument you make would also say that finished 73rd in lacrosse (dead last) is better than finish 75th in soccer (which would be about the top 30%)
 
doesn't matter. if soccer wasn't appropriately funded to succeed, I don't see the argument to keep it over a lacrosse program that would be appropriately funded.

S-man, suppose you have 2 sons (perhaps you do). With the older one, you've never bothered to play hoops with him. You get him some consignment sneakers at Goodwill. He has to make his own hoop with a peach basket. You never spend money to let him play on teams. He tries really hard but he just can't quite make the middle school team.

Your younger son comes along. Your "athletics endowment" --CORRECTION-- income is the same as it was with the first son. You practice with him all the time. You buy him all the latest Nike's and put a nice hoop for him in your driveway. You take him on the travel ball circuit and he makes the middle school team.

Is the second son a better player than the first?
 
Quantitatively, yes it does. If there are fewer schools than there is more talent to go around. It’s simple economics. The argument you make would also say that finished 73rd in lacrosse (dead last) is better than finish 75th in soccer (which would be about the top 30%)

what you say?Simple economics?What you say?Help me,please-someone.
 
S-man, suppose you have 2 sons (perhaps you do). With the older one, you've never bothered to play hoops with him. You get him some consignment sneakers at Goodwill. He has to make his own hoop with a peach basket. You never spend money to let him play on teams. He tries really hard but he just can't quite make the middle school team.

Your younger son comes along. Your "athletics endowment" --CORRECTION-- income is the same as it was with the first son. You practice with him all the time. You buy him all the latest Nike's and put a nice hoop for him in your driveway. You take him on the travel ball circuit and he makes the middle school team.

Is the second son a better player than the first?
well yes. 1st son didn't get the same opportunity and dad probably feels guilty about that, but the 2nd son is now the better player.
 
doesn't matter. if soccer wasn't appropriately funded to succeed, I don't see the argument to keep it over a lacrosse program that would be appropriately funded.


My disagreement about this is simple, the benefit of sports is much greater than just the wins ans losses. As an institute of higher learning we should provide as many opportunities to grow and learn as possible, even underfunded teams.
 
My disagreement about this is simple, the benefit of sports is much greater than just the wins ans losses. As an institute of higher learning we should provide as many opportunities to grow and learn as possible, even underfunded teams.

Also just because the team was cut does not mean it was underfunded. Underrepresented maybe, but I don’t believe the university has made public the funding for every single men and women’s sport.
 
RVA, I don't disagree from a spectator viewpoint, and I don't support doing away with LAX. But if we are truly about the STUDENT experience, all of those soccer, t&F athletes had their world shattered.
Never said I was for cutting sports, but offering some alternate viewpoints. I am pretty sure I said that I feel bad for all athletes who are affected by such cuts in an earlier post. I don’t know what the financial situation was for UR AD department at the time of cut 3/add 1, but obviously the W&M situation borders on a crime. The problem is college athletic departments have gotten out of control and all driven by the money in primarily college football. The colleges got into a new “business” and the fact is that most of them are losing big. It is simply unsustainable.

Personally I think it is a sad state of affairs when the highest paid employee of a university is a coach and isn’t even a top tier one. Is CM worth what he is getting paid? Definitely not. Can I blame him for taking the money? Not really. Can I truly be upset about it? No, I am not a Spider Club member, just a local guy who loves college basketball.

All that being said, I think it will be a great year for Spider hoops and I am looking forward to the season. Much better than listening to the local hype about that other school on Broad St.
 
your post misses my point, my point is the opportunity.
we're not going to offer every sport. we're not a 40,000 student state school. non-athletes deserve opportunities at UR too.
the school didn't want to add 40 more athletes while reducing the non-athlete student body by 40.
obviously you can argue what the athletic percentage should be, but the school is at the limit they want.
 
I root for all UR teams to succeed. Lacrosse is a great fit here, the recruiting aligns with UR and it is still a regional sport in our footprint, tho lacrosse is certainly growing. Lacrosse has been impressive to date those things help as does the lower quantity of teams. I've been critical of UR bball not having as much success as it should the last 9 years with the resources we give it but it is exponentially harder to do so than lacrosee imo. It's harder than FCS football. Actually I think we could beat the likes of those lacrosse teams mentioned over a 6 year period if we're getting those games consistently and at home like lacrosse is able to.
 
La Salle cuts seven sports effective at the end of the academic year:

Men: baseball, swimming and diving, tennis, water polo
Women: softball, volleyball, tennis

They had grown their athletic program to 25 sports in recent years in an effort to prop up enrollment. Unsurprisingly, it was unsustainable, although they say this isn't a budget-cutting move.

 
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La Salle cuts seven sports effective at the end of the academic year:

Men: baseball, swimming and diving, tennis, water polo
Women: softball, volleyball, tennis

They had grown their athletic program to 25 sports in recent years in an effort to prop up enrollment. Unsurprisingly, it was unsustainable, although they say this isn't a budget-cutting move.


SF any plagiarism in there like W&M? The W&M AD and Pres. are in some hot water.
 
They plagiarized Stanford's announcement about athletic cuts.


 
I didn’t see that about W & M. What happened?

I can't say I've followed super closely but basically their release on their letter regarding the sports cuts signed by the AD and President contained a lot of language taken directly from Stanford's on their cuts, word for word in some cases. They blamed it on "best practices" or something but plenty have made the correct point imo that if a student used that excuse for an honor code violation of plagiarism it would not hold up at all. & especially for a school like W&M it looks even worse. Google it or go to W&M message board and I'm sure you can find more info. The AD at W&M is not very well thought of there.

EDIT - SF on top of it with the links.
 
LaSalle is a smallish Catholic school in a not so nice area of Philly with outdated infrastructure and a tiny endowment.Lasalle has been in trouble for awhile with a declining enrollment and now the pandemic.It has been forced to reduce tuition dramatically to keep its numbers from tanking.

 
I can't say I've followed super closely but basically their release on their letter regarding the sports cuts signed by the AD and President contained a lot of language taken directly from Stanford's on their cuts, word for word in some cases. They blamed it on "best practices" or something but plenty have made the correct point imo that if a student used that excuse for an honor code violation of plagiarism it would not hold up at all. & especially for a school like W&M it looks even worse. Google it or go to W&M message board and I'm sure you can find more info. The AD at W&M is not very well thought of there.

EDIT - SF on top of it with the links.
You know, I’d bet dollars to donuts, if they had just picked up the phone and called Stanford and said
we like how you addressed the situation, “would you mind if we used the same copy“they wouldn’t have given
a damn.
 
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You know, I’d bet dollars to donuts, if they had just picked up the phone and called Stanford and said
we like how you addressed the situation, “would you mind if we used the same copy“they wouldn’t have given
a damn.
Agreed. I don't see it as a big deal at all. It's not like Stanford developed the cure for cancer and W&M stole it verbatim to make money. It's a press release. Yeah, it looks bad to copy someone and maybe sets a bad example, but this is not at all like a student plagiarizing for a grade. No one was graded on this – they were just explaining that they cut a few sports. Move along...
 
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Agreed. I don't see it as a big deal at all. It's not like Stanford developed the cure for cancer and W&M stole it verbatim to make money. It's a press release. Yeah, it looks bad to copy someone and maybe sets a bad example, but this is not at all like a student plagiarizing for a grade. No one was graded on this – they were just explaining that they cut a few sports. Move along...
It is always best to do your own work.
 
Of course. I’m just saying in the grand scheme of things to be upset about, this doesn’t register at all for me.
 
Agreed. I don't see it as a big deal at all. It's not like Stanford developed the cure for cancer and W&M stole it verbatim to make money. It's a press release. Yeah, it looks bad to copy someone and maybe sets a bad example, but this is not at all like a student plagiarizing for a grade. No one was graded on this – they were just explaining that they cut a few sports. Move along...

actually the W&M community is grading it quite harshly and they have they biggest say so. Clearly it is being graded that's why it has become an issue there. Obv its in the press but I also know a former student athlete well from W&M and know a current one (an NFL prospect btw who was t'd up to go to UR but our football staff stupidly didn't recruit him...I digress). Personally I find it worse than a student, those are kids that deserve to make mistakes and learn from it. This wasn't some run of the mill corp or athletic press release either those r dime a dozen. It was about cutting sports for lot of student athletes & under apparently shady justifications, for instance swimmers were apparently told it would not be cut. Have some courtesy, empathy and professionalism to come up with your own developed thoughts for such a serious matter. W&M is a top school in country, the President, AD and Provost put her their names on it. They should have the highest standards not some frosh in english lit taking it as an elective. Not even close but to each their own.
 
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