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OK, we are playing in the Legends Classic, two pretty good opponents there. That one had to be pre-Loon I would think?

Seeing all kinds of activity for other A10 teams, Davidson a home and home with Loyola-Chicago, URI just picked up game vs Maryland, etc.

As usual, dead zone around Richmond basketball. Any idea when we expect to have some news trickle out?
 
Anyone hear big hat no cattle Hardt on radio today? He had another segment scheduled but I'm assuming Joey Bags wasn't invited back on after that cringe worthy tickle fight those 2 had along w bob black on air last time. Knowing Hardt he avoided mens bball as topic likely focusing on sports like womens golf or maybe bucknell war stories w Roussell
 
Gkiller, caught some of it off and on. You pretty much nailed it - lot of baseball, men/women's LAX and Rousell talk. No calls apparently, not sure if dodging, or callers realize we will only get the "dumb Iowans don't mind losing" line of thought. I missed it, but apparently Hardt and Mooney have concocted an excuse to not let in grad transfers, or make it more restrictive. I swear it is unbelievable the excuses these guys build in.
 
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GKiller said:
Anyone hear big hat no cattle Hardt on radio today? He had another segment scheduled but I'm assuming Joey Bags wasn't invited back on after that cringe worthy tickle fight those 2 had along w bob black on air last time. Knowing Hardt he avoided mens bball as topic likely focusing on sports like womens golf or maybe bucknell war stories w Roussell
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spider23 said:
Gkiller, caught some of it off and on. You pretty much nailed it - lot of baseball, men/women's LAX and Rousell talk. No calls apparently, not sure if dodging, or callers realize we will only get the "dumb Iowans don't mind losing" line of thought. I missed it, but apparently Hardt and Mooney have concocted an excuse to not let in grad transfers, or make it more restrictive. I swear it is unbelievable the excuses these guys build in.
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Yep just listened to some clips from espn vault.

Grad transfer - it sounded like Noah Yates will still be on an athletic aid. Hardt clearly said that he is through fall semester. So maybe we don't have that extra ship right now. Now maybe it is coming from some other pool of aid given the circumstances but right now we could be down a ship because our AD & staff misjudged Yates chances at 2nd year. Had we known no way we give Yates a 2 year ship. Unbelievably we could be the only team in the country who is using up 1 of 13 bball ships on someone without any more eligibility!

Bob and Hardt put expected spin re: the dobo promotion. Talked up all the experience gained at Oregon & VA Tech except those had next to zero on court & recruiting responsibilities, just like his job at UR per Hardt himself.

Hardt got confused and may think we have Steve Francis on our team. Called Blake by that name. No we don't have ex-NBA and maryland Stevie Francis waiting to play. If we did I think we'd still be picked 7th in league.

Andrew gave Hardt one cursory pushback on the dobo promotion. Think he slept through rest of the hour.
 
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Summary for those who don't want to listen (you're not missing much).

No questions from outside the studio. The bubble has been fully engaged.

Segment 1: Discussion of the Grad transfer (and regular transfer) rules and environment, and Richmond's place in it.
Seg 2: Steve Thomas/Kim Lewis & Roussell
Seg 3: Spring Sports
Seg 4: Football

Just a little commentary on a few Hardt quotes:
From Segment 1:
Called Blake Francis "Steve" - maybe the former UMD and NBA guard still has some eligibility left?
Said Yates would be on scholarship until he completes MBA in fall of next year - so maybe we only have one scholarship open? Unclear.
This dovetailed with his discussion on the failed proposal (which UR supported) to make schools who take grad transfers use that scholarship for two years or until the graduate degree is obtained. Says the rationale is academic - the student should actually be pursuing that graduate degree.

My question, if they would have allowed questions - Shouldn't anyone who supports that proposal also be willing to accept the same rule if a player stays after he graduates and still has eligibility? Would Hardt support the same restriction? After all, the student has his degree. He's fulfilled his obligation. He should be free (IMO) to pursue a graduate degree wherever is a good fit. If you're going to make it difficult to go elsewhere (because the school has to commit 2 years to a player who can only play 1) then your own school should have to commit 2 years, too. 3/5 of #bestclassever will graduate next spring with 1 year of eligibility left. In order to keep them here in 2020/21, would he be willing to burn 3 scholarships in 2021/22 on players who are no longer on the court?

From Segment 4:
They started talking about transfers again, and Andrew asked if Hardt took into account who's left, who's coming and available next season when he does his evaluation of a program. "No, I pretty much look at wins and losses to figure out if it's working." My jaw about hit the floor. Wasn't the players we didn't have last season and will have next season pretty much the main justification for retaining our basketball coach?
 
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the proposed grad transfer rule was clearly aimed at reducing grad transfers. and I get it.

the current set up is very difficult for mid majors. they have a kid redshirt either developmentally or more often due to injury. they give him a 4 year ride, then lose him to a high major for his best season. and they don't find out they're losing him until April of the kid's senior year. that's difficult.

as we've discussed here, it almost makes it impossible to developmentally red shirt anyone even if it's in the kid's best interest.

my half-baked solution ...

keep things as they are where a kid can leave for one more year or stay for one more year, but at the home school's option if a kid is worth it athletically they can offer him an extra scholarship year to finish his grad degree. you'd only offer this for a kid that you're trying not to lose. and it wouldn't count against the 13 scholarship limit in that extra year.

at least there'd be an incentive for some of these kids to stay in their programs.
 
ChoppinBroccoli said:
They started talking about transfers again, and Andrew asked if Hardt took into account who's left, who's coming and available next season when he does his evaluation of a program. "No, I pretty much look at wins and losses to figure out if it's working." My jaw about hit the floor. Wasn't the players we didn't have last season and will have next season pretty much the main justification for retaining our basketball coach?
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Hardt said he was a "meat and potatoes guy". I laughed at that one from big hat no CATTLE. And you're right that was his justification re: Mooney. But don't be surprised by the contradictions coming out of our athletic dept. So the core takeaways were 1) we are very possibly the only team in NCAA basketball using 1 of our 13 ships on a player without any more eligibility. 2) we have Steve Francis on our team and 3) meat and potatoes.
 
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spiderman said:
the proposed grad transfer rule was clearly aimed at reducing grad transfers. and I get it.

the current set up is very difficult for mid majors. they have a kid redshirt either developmentally or more often due to injury. they give him a 4 year ride, then lose him to a high major for his best season. and they don't find out they're losing him until April of the kid's senior year. that's difficult.
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I get it, too. But that is *not* the reason Hardt gave. He went on about the "success rate" of grad transfers (actually getting their Master's) being low.

If he just said, "Yeah, we don't want a player we developed for 4 years going elsewhere" then that would have been some refreshing honesty. Just don't blow smoke about your priority being the young man getting his Master's degree unless you're willing to do the same for the players who stay. It's hypocritical.

The rule would have to be enforced in the other direction, too. Not all grad transfers move up. Keith Oddo is grad transferring to get more playing time. I don't think anyone projects him to wind up high major. The rule would reduce his appeal at 1-bid league schools, since they'd also have an unused slot in 2020/21.
 
you can't make the rule a two year commitment for lesser players because that would drastically reduce opportunities for those players. that's why I gave schools an exemption they could use.
 
spiderman said:
you can't make the rule a two year commitment for lesser players because that would drastically reduce opportunities for those players. that's why I gave schools an exemption they could use.
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Again, we agree here. But I saw no such exception mentioned in the proposal.
 
Why would someone on St. Joe's payroll help out us in a positive way? I really don't understand that relationship. Either Hardt was suckered or we're just so desperate for change we'll take anything.
 
I don’t know that I expected much yet I was still disappointed.

Hardt has a chance to go on there and actually stand tall for why he’s keeping CM. This is the question, there is no other question about UR athletics that even comes close in importance to alumni and fans.

I understand why Bob can’t ask that question but Andrew has to be willing to go there.
 
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Tbone, problem is, if he was given the truth serum, the answer would be either A) because PQ told me to keep him, or B) because PQ wouldn't pay the buyout or C) PQ said if I canned him he would pull his practice facility.
 
MrTbone said:
I don’t know that I expected much yet I was still disappointed.

Hardt has a chance to go on there and actually stand tall for why he’s keeping CM. This is the question, there is no other question about UR athletics that even comes close in importance to alumni and fans.

I understand why Bob can’t ask that question but Andrew has to be willing to go there.
Click to expand...

I agree, and it does not seem like a big deal to answer. There are many reasons he could give. "Losing Nick made it tough to evaluate, looking forward to seeing Nick and Blake next year, like the way Jacob and Grant have improved, our freshman showed promise, recruiting has been better the last few years, team chemistry stayed good last year, team is ready to have a big year next year", and end by saying "we had a good talk after the season, I like where we are headed and I believe CM is the right guy to lead us."

I know many disagree, but I am just showing that it would not be that hard to answer that question if asked.
 
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Many people in our athletic department seem to have difficult giving straightforward answers. The exceptions seem to be Woodson and Huesman, neither of whom is exactly lighting the world on fire either, unfortunately.

The grad transfer discussion was mind-numbing to me. So we care about whether a grad transfer completes his grad degree? Why? Do we require regular students to complete a degree once they are admitted? What recourse could we possibly have if any student decided to leave school early? Obviously none. Nor should we.

Hardt sounded as if he were inventing excuses as to why we suck at signing grad transfers and pre-emptively explaining why we will continue to suck at it. Unreal.
 
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We have lost 1 (maybe 2) basketball players of value and four total to the grad transfer rule. I don’t see that as being overly punitive, particularly given the dynamics surrounding each one’s choice to leave. I can’t speak to football but suspect it’s similarly minor.

I think it boils down to we aren’t a terribly attractive destination right now so the grad transfer rule inherently works against us. As with most problems, winning more likely solves this in large part, or at least mitigates most of it.
 
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MrTbone said:
I don’t know that I expected much yet I was still disappointed.

Hardt has a chance to go on there and actually stand tall for why he’s keeping CM. This is the question, there is no other question about UR athletics that even comes close in importance to alumni and fans.

I understand why Bob can’t ask that question but Andrew has to be willing to go there.
Click to expand...

It was obvious they weren't going to address the elephant in the studio, and it was likely agreed to ahead of time. That's probably why Andrew said:
While I appreciate John's time and would rather do the hour than not do it, my level of excitement for the hour has decreased for a variety of reasons.
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VT4700 said:
I agree, and it does not seem like a big deal to answer. There are many reasons he could give. "Losing Nick made it tough to evaluate, looking forward to seeing Nick and Blake next year, like the way Jacob and Grant have improved, our freshman showed promise, recruiting has been better the last few years, team chemistry stayed good last year, team is ready to have a big year next year", and end by saying "we had a good talk after the season, I like where we are headed and I believe CM is the right guy to lead us."

I know many disagree, but I am just showing that it would not be that hard to answer that question if asked.
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Yep. But no questions about MBB.

When Andrew asked "When you evaluate a year, do you look at 'We lost these guys, we gained these guys'.." I thought maybe he was trying to slip in a basketball (or all sport) question in the football segment. Of course Hardt said "No, that's up to the coaches. I'm a meat and potatoes evaluator....wins and losses and performance....I really underscore the importance of wins and losses."
 
Eight Legger said:
Many people in our athletic department seem to have difficult giving straightforward answers. The exceptions seem to be Woodson and Huesman, neither of whom is exactly lighting the world on fire either, unfortunately.

The grad transfer discussion was mind-numbing to me. So we care about whether a grad transfer completes his grad degree? Why? Do we require regular students to complete a degree once they are admitted? What recourse could we possibly have if any student decided to leave school early? Obviously none. Nor should we.

Hardt sounded as if he were inventing excuses as to why we suck at signing grad transfers and pre-emptively explaining why we will continue to suck at it. Unreal.
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UR doesn't care if Khwan Fore gets his Master's from Louisville. It's a smokescreen. We just want to punish Louisville for taking "our" player.
 
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MrTbone said:
We have lost 1 (maybe 2) basketball players of value and four total to the grad transfer rule. I don’t see that as being overly punitive, particularly given the dynamics surrounding each one’s choice to leave. I can’t speak to football but suspect it’s similarly minor.

I think it boils down to we aren’t a terribly attractive destination right now so the grad transfer rule inherently works against us. As with most problems, winning more likely solves this in large part, or at least mitigates most of it.
Click to expand...

Roster size mitigates the damage in football, plus for undergrad transfers we have the rule that most FBS to FCS transfers are immediately eligible.
 
ChoppinBroccoli said:
It was obvious they weren't going to address the elephant in the studio, and it was likely agreed to ahead of time. That's probably why Andrew said:

Yep. But no questions about MBB.
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Broc you are spot on. I could tell by how Bb teased the Hardt hour on social media with the discussion points that MBB wasn't going to discussed seriously. It was predetermined off limits. An obvious Big hat No cattle move. I'm telling you with this pretentious guy. No caller questions allowed either. Perhaps if someone wanted to talk womens sports it would have been allowed or been a guaranteed setup call but as Tbone mentioned MBB is easily #1 interest and everything went down just about a month ago. Andrew Wallace seems to talk a big game on Twitter there's no way he didn't want to go there.
 
ChoppinBroccoli said:
It was obvious they weren't going to address the elephant in the studio, and it was likely agreed to ahead of time.
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Absolutely, it was seemingly agreed to keep out of bounds.

I still think these are missed opportunities. Maybe don't take callers where you know it's going to be a sh**show to do so but if I'm Andrew Wallace, I think I have an obligation to negotiate discussing the retention. There's a vocal, disappointed fanbase, I'm tuning in to hear what the response from the university is to that. I'm not turning in about taking 2 of 3 from VCU in baseball or that the women's golf team took the Patriot League title. That's not what sports talk radio fans generally care about when there's discord in the "flagship" sport.
 
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spider23 said:
OK, we are playing in the Legends Classic, two pretty good opponents there. That one had to be pre-Loon I would think?

Seeing all kinds of activity for other A10 teams, Davidson a home and home with Loyola-Chicago, URI just picked up game vs Maryland, etc.

As usual, dead zone around Richmond basketball. Any idea when we expect to have some news trickle out?
Click to expand...

23, uri must have hired Lunardi too? But I’m happy to see this regardless because I know our schedule will be tougher per Mooney.

 
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GKiller said:
23, uri must have hired Lunardi too? But I’m happy to see this regardless because I know our schedule will be tougher per Mooney.

View embedded media
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Pssh. That schedule is for pansies. Wait until Mooney unveils the toughest OOC schedule in league history soon! Rhody will probably forfeit its season.
 
The grad transfer discussion was mind-numbing to me. So we care about whether a grad transfer completes his grad degree? Why? Do we require regular students to complete a degree once they are admitted?

Isn't our undergraduate scholarship aid to athletes guaranteed for four years? It is in the Pac-12 and in other P5 conferences (along with a cost of attendance stipend). We may not REQUIRE athletes to complete their degrees, but we certainly provide the financial resources for that to happen, and most certainly encourage it.

Most MA programs require 18-24 months to complete. If we accept a grad transfer, we are incumbent on providing the resources for him/her to complete that degree if he/she so chooses, just as we would an undergraduate athlete.

Now, the funding for that second (MA) or fifth (BA/BS) year can come from a different source, if the athlete no longer has any eligibility. But yes, I think we should care whether a grad transfer completes his/her MA, just as we should care if an undergrad athlete completes his/her BA/BS.

Not only should we care, we should do everything possible to make it happen.
 
Last edited:
Wood Hall said:
The grad transfer discussion was mind-numbing to me. So we care about whether a grad transfer completes his grad degree? Why? Do we require regular students to complete a degree once they are admitted?

Isn't our undergraduate scholarship aid to athletes guaranteed for four years? It is in the Pac-12 and in other P5 conferences (along with a cost of attendance stipend). We may not REQUIRE athletes to complete their degrees, but we certainly provide the financial resources for that to happen, and most certainly encourage it.

Most MA programs require 18-24 months to complete. If we accept a grad transfer, we are incumbent on providing the resources for him/her to complete that degree if he/she so chooses, just as we would an undergraduate athlete.

Now, the funding for that second (MA) or fifth (BA/BS) year can come from a different source, if the athlete no longer has any eligibility. But yes, I think we should care whether a grad transfer completes his/her MA, just as we should care if an undergrad athlete completes his/her BA/BS.

Not only should we care, we should do everything possible to make it happen.
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I don't disagree that we should want our students and student-athletes to complete their undergrad or graduate degrees here. But at the same time, it's ultimately up to them to do so or not. I'm just saying that we shouldn't be handicapping ourselves by refusing to take a grad transfer, for example, who we think might not actually finish a graduate degree here.

If we can find a kid who is a good kid, a good student and a good basketball player, enroll him in some graduate program for a year and let him play ball. If he decides to finish his graduate degree after that, fantastic. If he doesn't, I'm cool with that too.
 
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That's fine. But if he/she wants to finish his/her MBA, we should pay for it.
 
Wood Hall said:
Isn't our undergraduate scholarship aid to athletes guaranteed for four years? It is in the Pac-12 and in other P5 conferences (along with a cost of attendance stipend).
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I have never heard this. athletic scholarships are for one year deals, renewable each year. it's a bad look to not renew, but 4 years is not guaranteed.
 
spiderman said:
I have never heard this. athletic scholarships are for one year deals, renewable each year. it's a bad look to not renew, but 4 years is not guaranteed.
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"An athletic scholarship cannot be guaranteed for four years. NCAA institutions offer one-year college scholarships that can be renewable annually. At the end of each year, athletics-based aid may be canceled or reduced for any reason."

https://www.petersons.com/blog/understanding-athletic-college-scholarships/
 
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MrTbone said:
"An athletic scholarship cannot be guaranteed for four years. NCAA institutions offer one-year college scholarships that can be renewable annually. At the end of each year, athletics-based aid may be canceled or reduced for any reason."

https://www.petersons.com/blog/understanding-athletic-college-scholarships/
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But the power 5 - Pac12, ACC, Big Ten, Big 12 and SEC - did adopt the 4 year guarantee separately. Wood is right there. Can't be pulled for athletic performance reasons but other ways to avoid and we know coaches at that level still push out kids that are labeled as leaving "voluntarily". I'm not aware of this rule being followed outside Power 5 unless on individual school basis.
 
is that for all sports? including sports like baseball that give half and quarter scholarships?
 
MrTbone said:
Absolutely, it was seemingly agreed to keep out of bounds.

I still think these are missed opportunities. Maybe don't take callers where you know it's going to be a sh**show to do so but if I'm Andrew Wallace, I think I have an obligation to negotiate discussing the retention. There's a vocal, disappointed fanbase, I'm tuning in to hear what the response from the university is to that. I'm not turning in about taking 2 of 3 from VCU in baseball or that the women's golf team took the Patriot League title. That's not what sports talk radio fans generally care about when there's discord in the "flagship" sport.
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It was Andrew's last hour on the air before his vacation; he sounded like he just wanted to get it over with. Considering the percentage of time spent on Bob and Hardt's prescribed talking points, it might as well have been a SpiderTV production.

Ironically, they took one call in the first hour. It was from Ivan. You can't make this stuff up.
 
Wood Hall said:
Now, the funding for that second (MA) or fifth (BA/BS) year can come from a different source, if the athlete no longer has any eligibility.
Click to expand...

That's what I don't get, if that was so easily done, why all that drama about the grad transfer rule to begin with. The whole impetus behind the proposal - and Hardt said this himself the other day - is making schools responsible financially for 2 years for grad transfers. If a school can give athletic ship first year, and then it becomes some other money outside of athletics, then problem solved. Charging a school 2 years worth of athletic ship for 1 grad year would only be punitive. The stated end goal is simply to give the grad student athlete 2 years worth of paid expenses. That already seems possible by any school if the above is accurate.

Also Hardt used "grant-in aid" terminology to describe the 13 basketball allotment limit so raising a possible distinction like I did earlier was probably meaningless. He talks sideways often so who knows. I think possible we are indeed using an athletic ship for Yates non eligible grad year but I hope I'm very wrong. He was all academic A10 and has economics degree from Yale so you'd think he has chance at some type of academic scholarship. Tho I don't think UR offers full MBA scholarships, only partials.
 
ChoppinBroccoli said:
It was Andrew's last hour on the air before his vacation; he sounded like he just wanted to get it over with. Considering the percentage of time spent on Bob and Hardt's prescribed talking points, it might as well have been a SpiderTV production.

Ironically, they took one call in the first hour. It was from Ivan. You can't make this stuff up.
Click to expand...

Tone deaf. I'm shocked that they get the fans that they get. I got my degree there, and my wife draws a paycheck from there, so we have a fandom out of loyalty to our school/employer. But by golly if I was a newcomer to the Richmond area and looking for a college team to support I'd be turned off by the snobbery shown by the UR Athletic Department.
 
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