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Is Football the Next Tobacco?

B

BenM3

Oct 30, 2014
62
2
8
"There are 1.27 million lawyers in the United States, one for about every 300 Americans--about 400,000 more of them than there are doctors... The problem for football won't be the fans, or even the moms. It will be the lawyers--and they've already started."

Michael Sokolove
 
I don't think it's the next tobacco, because tobacco has no redeeming value and will harm you in some way every time you use it. The same is not true of football.

But I do think there are inherent issues with football that seem difficult or impossible to change. Can you institute weight limits? Limits as to how hard you can hit someone? How many hits you can take in a game before being declared ineligible? None of that seems likely.

You can't ignore the types of injuries and long-term brain damage that a lot of players are suffering, though. At this point I think most people understand the risks of the sport. Many will still choose to play, but more parents are either taking precautions or forbidding their sons from playing. If the sport is going to be killed off eventually, I think that is what will do it -- not lawyers.
 
tobacco plants are being used in gene research and the results will soon be on the market according to the ny times. is ironic that as we attack and eliminate tobacco, states are legalizing pot. if it is so bad, why has it not been deemed illegal? obviously, just like in too many law suits, follow the money.

certainly, attorneys are licking their chops with football but right now only have the nfl with enough money to really get excited about. pop warner, high schools, don't have the money to make it lucrative, colleges and universities, maybe on some level.
 
Good points made by EightLegger and WebSpinner above.

Pop Warner and High Schools don't have near the $$ of the NFL, but they do have insurance plans (or are self-insured) that make them increasingly attractive to personal injury lawyers who get 30-40% of whatever settlements they can manage to secure for injured clients. That is the main point of the original article -- that football is becoming like tobacco in terms of the growing number of lawsuits being filed for damages. Institutions such as UR could be sued like La Salle University was for brain damage in a football player who ultimately received $7.5 million. This payout led to La Salle dropping its football program.

"La Salle Announces Discontinuation of Football Program"

http://www.lasalle.edu/univcomm/2007/football_program.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/sports/ncaafootball/01lasalle.html?_r=0
 
Good discussion. The "concussion", aka brain injury, discussion that is ongoing has already resulted in a lot of what I would say are positive changes in the game. The NFL, while initially denying the correlation has now accepted science and making strides to changing the way the game is played by heavily penalizing shots to the head.

On the high school level, all 50 states now have concussion protocol in place at the high school level that we're basically non-existent a decade ago. There are medically based return to play regulations in place to better protect players who have had a concussion.

And on a youth level, there is a change on how players practice, with much more non-contact practices taking place. So, lots of positive changes are occurring.

However, as Eight said, the awareness of parents and the general public as to the correlation between concussions, football, and long-term brain damage is ever increasing and this is why you see youth football participation rates dropping pretty significantly.

In the end, football will survive. Football is still a huge part of our American culture and enough parents will continue to allow there children to play. And changes in how football is practiced and taught as well as enhanced medical supervision/treatment of players will and are making the game safer to play. Plus, I hope helmet technology will allow for better protection in the future.
 
Both of my nephews play football. They are 13 and 17. They both have had concussions already during games - the younger one has had two. That scares the hell out of me for them long-term, not to mention what other concussions they may suffer, and also for me as the father of a young son.

My son won't play football because of the head-injury risks involved. Of course there are risks in other sports, too, and in life in general. But when it comes to my kid, I want to limit the unnecessary risks to whatever extent I can so that he can live the best life he can.

It's pretty much a given that if your kid plays football from the time he's 5 through the time he's 18 or older, he will suffer multiple concussions. We now know enough about the damage these can do later in life that a lot of parents are understandably hesitant. And when you see NFL players talking about how they won't let their own sons play, that tells you something.

But the bottom line is that it's a personal decision for families. And either way, I hope there are more precautions and safety elements added over time.
 
Playing football can certainly be risky but so can soccer with headers. Why Becca Wann didn't play soccer or bball her Senior season. She was great at header goals but paid the price over time. Do want kids to be safe and decisions to play a sport is totally a family one.
 
Originally posted by Eight Legger:
Both of my nephews play football. They are 13 and 17. They both have had concussions already during games - the younger one has had two. That scares the hell out of me for them long-term, not to mention what other concussions they may suffer, and also for me as the father of a young son.

My son won't play football because of the head-injury risks involved. Of course there are risks in other sports, too, and in life in general. But when it comes to my kid, I want to limit the unnecessary risks to whatever extent I can so that he can live the best life he can.

It's pretty much a given that if your kid plays football from the time he's 5 through the time he's 18 or older, he will suffer multiple concussions. We now know enough about the damage these can do later in life that a lot of parents are understandably hesitant. And when you see NFL players talking about how they won't let their own sons play, that tells you something.

But the bottom line is that it's a personal decision for families. And either way, I hope there are more precautions and safety elements added over time.
Click to expand...
Completely agree. As for your nephews, one of the real dangers with concussion is playing again before the initial concussive event has fully healed. If you get a second concussion before fully healed there is a cumulative effect. So, hopefully they have good medical care. There also is a cumulative effect for concussions in general. When youth starting getting above 2 concussions, the parents really need to think hard about whether it is worth it or not.

And yes, soccer and some other sports certainly have some concussion issues. Football stands out for the volume of hits you are exposing yourself to. They have had helmet sensors in place at several colleges for years now (VA Tech is one of them) and the sensors indicate hits on the level of being hitting a brick wall at 35 mph in a car, occurring sometimes over 100 times in a season for single players. Lineman typically have the most exposure because they are banging heads nearly every play.
 
Add to all of this the reality that only about 3% of potential concussions ("dings") are even reported. Linemen may be the most vulnerable:

"Among offensive linemen, the rate of diagnosed concussions to suspected concussions and dings was 32-to-1. They suffered 62 percent more suspected concussions and 52 percent more dings than other positions."

Players often feel reluctant to report anything lest they lose their starting position and, in some instances, their scholarships if they lose their spot on the team.

Women's soccer does have a major concussion problem (highest rate among women's sports):

http://www.headcasecompany.com/concussion_info/stats_on_concussions_sports

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/9902116/report-details-concussion-risks-high-school-athletes



http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11631357/study-says-26-27-potential-concussions-unreported-college-football
 
Professor Rick Mayes taking a brief pit stop from 'Memoirs of Socialized Medicine: The Road to Nowhere'?

Welcome, Sir.
 
I had not tried to see who the new poster was, but Mo may be onto something here.
 
guess it makes one wonder, ponder, what is going on with rugby players and aussie rules football players who are in a contact sport with no headgear. think the helmet is most likely the culprit and know we played football for hours in the yard as kids with no headgear and without head injuries. none of that matters however, the politically correct are after football and the attorneys are after football, so as jack lambert stated in the 70s, put a skirt on them. will say, the only players i have seen interviewed anywhere have all said they would do it again and that they will allow their kids to play.
 
Another group of people one can add to those who "are after football -- the politically correct and the attorneys" -- are those who respond very strongly and emotionally to kids who literally die playing the sport:

"Students Will Wear Blue to Honor Mecklenburg Football Player Who Died After Hit"
http://wtvr.com/2014/10/18/high-school-player-dies-during-football-game/

"Third High School Football Player Dies in a Week"
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/02/us/new-york-football-player-death/

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/02/us/new-york-football-player-death/
 
of course he would not, he was an offensive player....

who are you BenM3, do you work for disney, abc, espn, or UR?

for gosh sakes, kids die or are maimed every day in the house, in the car, on the playground, on their bikes, in boats we cannot possibly sue or legislate sports out of existence nor can we have a world without death or injury.
This post was edited on 11/12 1:03 PM by WebSpinner

This post was edited on 11/12 1:04 PM by WebSpinner
 
Mayes tried this stunt when he was trying but failing bad as our faculty rep to athletics. I guess this is his new pipeline. Ayers move to get rid of Harold Babb as our faculty rep has to go down as one of his worse decisions. He fought to control Babb but failed so he just removed him. Its called "Micro Managing". Hopefully the new prez will not be in that mode.
 
Spinner, is there anything you disagree with that doesn't immediately deteriorate into the fault of "political correctness"? It doesn't seem like it. I think people can disagree without a "PC culture" automatically being to blame.

I don't think football is going anywhere, but I also don't think we should just bury our heads in the sand and criticize people who have real concerns about head trauma in the game as not being tough enough or as wearing skirts. That's not a productive discussion. That's just name-calling.

Here are some players who have said they wouldn't want, or probably wouldn't want, their sons to play football:

More than 250 recently retired NFL players: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/feature/wp/2013/05/16/do-no-harm-retired-nfl-players-endure-a-lifetime-of-hurt/

Brett Favre: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24623256/brett-favre-reiterates-he-wouldnt-want-son-to-play-football

Terry Bradshaw: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829d33b9/article/terry-bradshaw-wouldnt-let-son-play-football-now

Kurt Warner: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7890147/nfl-let-your-son-play-football

Troy Aikman: http://www.businessinsider.com/troy-aikman-football-injuries-nfl-2011-2

Adrian Peterson: http://www.tmz.com/2013/02/23/adrian-peterson-son-football-video/ (admittedly, ironic, since he also beats his son)

Bart Scott: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/ny-jets-linebacker-bart-scott-son-play-football-nfl-continues-battle-concussion-issue-article-1.1085074

Bernard Pollard: http://www.bloomberg.com/video/nfl-s-pollard-i-don-t-want-my-son-playing-football-KCXfzM2vTNiG~VstNweBmQ.html

Esera Tuaolo: http://www.cambio.com/videos/cambio-on-aol/why-this-former-nfl-player-is-afraid-to-have-his-son-play-footba--518251084/
 
No idea. But the Washington Post link I cited was a pretty extensive survey of 500+ recently retired players, and it said that more than half of them said they would not let their sons play. I think that's newsworthy when that many guys who played a sport they loved take that stance. Most of us would probably love to see our sons follow in our footsteps and end up loving what we love, especially when it comes to a career.
 
It is a serious and legitimate concern, but all sports have a degree of potential injury attached. Soccer has a serious concussion problem too, but it is not the vogue to discuss that like football. You only see a passing comment here and there regarding soccer (there is a LAX problem too) so why keep on piling on football thereby distorting the true nature of virtually all sports. Well, maybe we could exclude curling.
 
Maybe it's because kids die playing football that makes the concussion problem in football receive (much) more attention than the concussion problems in other sports wherein deaths do not occur…and because football is America's favorite sport…and because the NFL is so rich.

Just ask LeBron James:

"LeBron James Says His Kids Aren't Allowed to Play Football"
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11866239/lebron-james-says-kids-allowed-play-football

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11866239/lebron-james-says-kids-allowed-play-football
 
If you made $50million a year like Lebron your kids would be owning businesses not playing games in sports of their life long dreams.Lets get real.It's quite easy to rationalize any action about anything if you have a Challenger 600 at your immediate disposal,have a highly paid entourage and have lunch plans with Warren Buffet anytime you want to discuss portfolio options.
 
LeBron James told ESPN.com on Friday that he does not let his sons, LeBron Jr. and Bryce Maximus, play football.
When asked whether the reason for his decision was the health dangers related to football, James replied, "Yes."


[+] Enlarge
AP Photo/J Pat CarterLeBron James' sons play sports -- but only basketball, baseball and soccer.

"Only basketball, baseball and soccer are allowed in my house," James said...
 
Kids die playing basketball, cycling, running, climbing, swimming, just off of the top of my head. Should we also cease all of those sports? Most educated people recognize that football is a violent and dangerous sport, those involved in the sport seem to be studying how to make the sport safer. They acknowledge your concern In the meantime, education is the best tool we have. Those that don't want to take the risk do not have to play.

Frankly this series of posts seems to be made by someone that hates sports, or at best does not believe in the benefit of sports for the development of the individual. Sports are more than entertainment. They are a part of the fabric of our society, they have "saved" many a young person from heading in the "wrong" direction, they are a great teacher.

I suspect many sports fans are not comfortable with the current direction of the FBS programs. I talk to many Spider fans that choose to follow the Spiders BECAUSE the kids go to class as well as excel on the playing field.

Rather than advocating the destruction of something so important to many why don't you put your efforts into making it safer? Then you may be viewed positively, instead of just another biased naysayer.
 
LeBron will end up owning an NFL team and his kids will run it.Just like the Mara's and the Rooney's.Warren mentioned to Lebron at their last luncheon that the franchise value of NFL teams will continue to rise at an annual compounded rate of 8%.Can you believe that.That's excluding annual operating income growth of 9%.Warren mentioned also that the Big 5 conferences are discussing a plan to spin off of their football business and monetize their value once they are freed from the shackles of the NCAA bureaucracy.Values are forecasted everywhere.Imagine an IPO for Texas football.Count me in.

This post was edited on 11/12 10:53 PM by 32counter
 
Re: MIT won a football championship

actually, all i do is look at who is marching or beating the drum on any issue and that determines who is behind it. this issue is being driven by the politically correct crowd, plain and simple. all of us want our kids, all kids, all adults, to be safe but we cannot eliminate death and injury. the same folks who bring you hushed speech, the banning of 64oz sodas, the march to replace pizza in schools with brussel sprouts and the elimination of REDSKINS, are at it again, attempting to micro-manage our lives to fit their template. sorry Eight, call it as i see it and also observe that you are on that team once again though professing that you are not.
 
Spinner, your attitude about everything seems to be that it should always remain the way it is, and that any efforts to change things in any way are somehow politically correct. By your own standards, you are arguing against any improvements that could make football safer, because obviously doing so would just mean the "politically correct" crowd is taking away more of your freedoms, right?

Of course there are any number of things that can injure or kill kids in general and in sports specifically. To me, the incidence of serious head trauma is much higher in football -- and yes, probably soccer too, to a lesser extent -- than other sports. Im not here to advocate for the death of football or that we should quit playing it, but I think it's pretty ignorant to act like nothing is wrong, and oh well, 25 more former NFL players just died from ALS by age 45, but there's nothing we can do about it.

Some sports and jobs are inherently risky and dangerous, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying to make them safer.

This post was edited on 11/13 8:21 AM by Eight Legger
 
Not surprisingly, I think Eight Legger's viewpoint is right. It's the kind of thinking that can make football safer for the student-athletes and less prone to lawsuits.

I was watching the South Africa vs. Ireland rugby match this morning. For whatever it might be worth, I think that is what football should be more like: same incredible athleticism, football-level strength, lots of complex strategy and plenty of contact, but no helmets and minimal pads automatically make tackling in rugby more like traditional football tackling (the kind played as kids in our backyards).

Also, with rugby players play both sides of the ball offensively and defensively (like basketball), there is less dead-time when plays have ended with a tackle or gone out-of-bounds, and without helmets it's much easier to get connected to the players because you can see them and their expressions/emotions during the game. That's partly why soccer, basketball and baseball and most Olympic sports provide more emotional connection to the players -- you can see them and how they differ from one another. Seeing their faces makes them feel much less "interchangeable/disposable," which I think happens too much in football. If a football player is badly injured, it doesn't generate the same level of concern and demand for improved safety because the injured player simply gets replaced by another helmeted player whose face we don't see. With rugby, viewers can enjoy the sport with less guilt/squeamishness. It still seems fairly brutal, but less so than football.

Finally, very excited for the basketball season to start tomorrow. Bring on Radford, go Spiders.
 
OMG, BenM3, you agree with Eight, am just shocked!! look, have i indicated that i am not for safety and improving, absolutely not. am i stating, from observation, who is pushing this thing and it is the same old crowd who want to turn this country into their playpen, without any other voices or opinions.
 
Actually, the people who are "pushing" this is a small group of dedicated researchers and scientists out of Boston University, who have led the research into CTE. I don't want to agree with BenM3, because I really detest what he has attempted to do with our Football program and frankly his small minded opinion of the sport in general.

With that said, the correlation between football and long term health problems resulting from multiple concussions is pretty damning and if we don't try to do everything possible to make the game safer, than yes, it's future is not bright. And no, Spinner, this is not some evil liberal plot to take everything you treasure about Merica and render it into some sissified nanny state.
 
NO, they are studying it, the pushers are the same old crowd, we all know who they are, same folks on every issue.
 
Well I for one am not suggesting that other voices and opinions be stifled, nor am I suggesting that football should be banned or not played at a high level. I'm simply in favor of advancing safety to whatever extent it is possible and addressing obvious problems. I have pointed out that a number of current and former NFL players, including some Hall of Famers, are worried enough about the issue of safety that they don't even want their own kids to play.

I don't think their motivation is born of "political correctness" - it's born of a desire to make the game they love as safe as possible so that it can continue to be played at a high level.
 
We'll garwlyee 97', you obviously don't watch Fox News, or listen to tinfoil head beck ditto rush or. Michael savage. It you ain't idiots like us, you are they. BTW WS My new favorite listen is Coast to Coast....for entertainment purposes only...
 
A, love coast to coast, when i am out and about at that hour. must say am laughing most of the time but those folks are serious about their "things". i don't watch any of the above A but not difficult to see who is doing what, not at all.
 
Are helmets the cause instead of the protection. Does anyone know the concussion rate with rugby or Australian rules football.
 
That is an interesting thought. So is the solution to go back to leather helmets? I do feel the game will be much different in 10 to 20 years. Some will like it and some will not. Speaking of the personal connection between the Olympic sport athletes, it's a shame we chose to eliminate that bond for so many of our young Spider men.
 
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