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Congrats to our team

The expectations of the whole athletic program are so miniscule that an NIT appearance and losing in the quarterfinals is considered a perfect season over there. As long as Mooney is in charge, there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Oh he may throw a few pieces of candy for the masses in believing there is hope, but he leaves in his Range Rover laughing all the way to the bank.
 
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This UR team wins maybe a10 games without Francis and Golden.


Blakes game is as a scorer because that was his role on the team if you watch them play. Blake can score on his own vs a guy like Jacob who scores within the offense. Just two different styles of play which is ok. But there's no need to put Blake down to lift Jacob up. Jacob scored a ton of points in a ton of losses his first two years. Also URs last two seasons were much better than the two seasons prior to that which is something the team and the program can be proud of.
I’m not putting Blake down at all, just saying that in retrospect, I think we were doubling down on similar strengths instead of diversifying the offense. Take Nick, for example. He’s a lights-out three-point shooter. That’s a different dimension. Grant is a passing bug man. Different dimension. Blake and Jake both are very capable scorers, but there’s only one ball. When one is scoring, that usually means the other isn’t.
 
I wonder why we are reaching out to Kolek and the like? Seems Mooney has similar concern at 2 guard spot.
it is interesting. we're all thinking we fill both spots with bigs. one certainly has to be big. but looks like Mooney will go best available with the other spot.

Kolek is a really nice all around player. I just don't know why he'd come now when he could have before and chose GMU over us for some reason. he had a UR offer. but it's right to call. nothing ventured ...
Healey was only offered at lower levels so that call I understand more.
as I've said, I think Burton's plenty big an athletic to defend other teams' big forward. and I think he'd be even more effective offensively being covered by them. we can go a little small. but my concern is that I don't see any of our wing options at the other forward spot as plus rebounders. and neither are Matt or Sal obviously. we'd be counting on Tyler to do almost all of the rebounding.
 
I’m not putting Blake down at all, just saying that in retrospect, I think we were doubling down on similar strengths instead of diversifying the offense. Take Nick, for example. He’s a lights-out three-point shooter. That’s a different dimension. Grant is a passing bug man. Different dimension. Blake and Jake both are very capable scorers, but there’s only one ball. When one is scoring, that usually means the other isn’t.


"When Francis is scoring, it's mostly just him scoring points. Francis was a strength that we didn't really need. Gilyard can do all the things Francis can do and then some." To me that's literally what you are doing. Saying the team didn't need Blake because Jacob can do everything he can. If that was the case UR wouldn't have went 25-40 Jacob's first two seasons. Its okay to say Jacob played well and stepped up in the absence of his teammates rather than saying "see look how much better Jacob is without Blake" which simply is not true if you look at the win column which at the end of the day that's ALL its about.
 
we're certainly better with Blake. I just like that Jacob plays with more offensive aggression when he knows he has to when he doesn't have another scorer in the backcourt with him.

that's not on Blake. that's on Jacob. I want him to also play that way WITH Blake next to him.
 
we're certainly better with Blake. I just like that Jacob plays with more offensive aggression when he knows he has to when he doesn't have another scorer in the backcourt with him.

that's not on Blake. that's on Jacob. I want him to also play that way WITH Blake next to him.

Agreed. With a healthy roster I think UR has a real shot to win the whole NIT. Mississippi State is not a good basketball team at all. And they're very young; turned the ball over 18 times. UR played hard though no slight to the guys who were out there last night. Truthfully I don't think the A10 gets enough credit for being as talented and as deep as it is as a whole. Hard to win in that conference.
 
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Pretty massive fail when the top two preseason teams in the a10 lose to the garbage that MSU threw out there last night, honestly. Embarrassing for the league.
 
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"When Francis is scoring, it's mostly just him scoring points. Francis was a strength that we didn't really need. Gilyard can do all the things Francis can do and then some." To me that's literally what you are doing. Saying the team didn't need Blake because Jacob can do everything he can. If that was the case UR wouldn't have went 25-40 Jacob's first two seasons. Its okay to say Jacob played well and stepped up in the absence of his teammates rather than saying "see look how much better Jacob is without Blake" which simply is not true if you look at the win column which at the end of the day that's ALL its about.
If I’m married to Beyoncé, I don’t need to try to date Gabrielle Union, too. Blake is a helluva player and I love his tenacity. I’m just saying that for this team, in retrospect, I don’t know that the fit was the best to maximize everything we had collectively, that’s all. He’s not a distributor, and that’s fine. Jacob became ONLY a distributor this year, and I’m not saying that Blake forced him to do that, but the result was the result.
 
If I’m married to Beyoncé, I don’t need to try to date Gabrielle Union, too. Blake is a helluva player and I love his tenacity. I’m just saying that for this team, in retrospect, I don’t know that the fit was the best to maximize everything we had collectively, that’s all. He’s not a distributor, and that’s fine. Jacob became ONLY a distributor this year, and I’m not saying that Blake forced him to do that, but the result was the result.

the reu
If I’m married to Beyoncé, I don’t need to try to date Gabrielle Union, too. Blake is a helluva player and I love his tenacity. I’m just saying that for this team, in retrospect, I don’t know that the fit was the best to maximize everything we had collectively, that’s all. He’s not a distributor, and that’s fine. Jacob became ONLY a distributor this year, and I’m not saying that Blake forced him to do that, but the result was the result.

Using marriage to compare to how a basketball team is built is again a bad take. Especially when all UR did was lose in '17/'18. All you need to do is look at the numbers which suggest clearly that the team is better with Francis in the lineup than they are without. Loyola-Chi is sitting in the sweet 16 which is now looking like the best UR win of the season. Need I remind who you won that game for the spiders....Gilyard with 19 points and Francis with 27 points. They won in spite of a bad game from Golden in which he had more turnovers than rebounds. But I'll just have to assume you didn't watch that game.
 
something to consider stats-wise. Jacob did take over 6 threes per game this year, the 2nd highest average in his career. but despite a strong finish, he his by far his lowest percentage this year.

he took the fewest 2's of his career this season, yet hit the lowest percentage since freshman year.

so I think Jacob's deferring may have been a confidence thing. he wasn't shooting up to his standards, therefore he'd distribute and get the ball to other scorers and affect the game in other ways. with Blake out, he was forced to be more of a scorer.

but I think if you asked Jacob he absolutely wanted Blake out there with him.
 
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Gilly was definitely in a shooting slump, but his scoring only dipped a fraction of a point from last year, so rather than deferring, he was actually shooting a bit more than he did last year. His shots were up and assists were down compared to last year. (He did shoot more these past few games when Blake was out, but even accounting for that, he was shooting more than last year.)

He did dip in scoring and shots from soph to junior year when Blake came on board, but it was obviously successful...rather than the Gilly and Golden show, we were balanced and won a boatload of games last year.
 
I think this fanbase has been too far down on Blake Francis. How do we know that Blake wouldn't have been better served being the small guard/scoring 1 and having a bigger 2 play next to him? I hate to bring everything back to the Head Coach, but isn't it sort of his job to make sure the pieces fill well together?

I liked the attitude that Blake brought our program. We certainly did plenty of losing before he was able to play and we lost more than our fair share after he was out.
 
All I know is that Gilly was a completely different player in the NIT without Blake and Grant on the court. I think for Gilly playing with 4 other seniors he played as if he was the equal to the other players on the team, versus the man, the leader of this team. I think that was a tough mentally for Gilly, particularly given his close relationships with many of those seniors.

But with them out in the NIT, it was really unquestioned that if we were going to win, we needed Gilly to be the focal point out there and he rose to that occassion. And we saw what a fully assertive, fully in control of the game Jacob Gilyard can do.

As for returning players, I hope they all don't return. What I hope is that Gilly and Cayo return. There was something off all year with the energy of this team and that same energy is gonna be back if they all return. I like the energy we saw last night. And I liked what I saw from guys like Sal, Grace, Dji, and Wilson playing bigger roles. I think if Cayo and Gilly return with the other guys out there, I'll be pretty excited about things.
 
I think that Jacob did what a senior should be able to do and would do - he stepped up his game when his normal 2 guard was out with injury. And I think had it been the other way around, Blake would have stepped up his game if Jacob were out with injury. It's what good players do, and I believe it applies to both. I know it seems like the consensus seems to be settling on the thoughts that Blake is definitely not returning (can't remember if he has said so or not) and that Jacob is at least considering returning. I would be very happy if either or both returned.
 
it is interesting. we're all thinking we fill both spots with bigs. one certainly has to be big. but looks like Mooney will go best available with the other spot.

Kolek is a really nice all around player. I just don't know why he'd come now when he could have before and chose GMU over us for some reason. he had a UR offer. but it's right to call. nothing ventured ...
Healey was only offered at lower levels so that call I understand more.
as I've said, I think Burton's plenty big an athletic to defend other teams' big forward. and I think he'd be even more effective offensively being covered by them. we can go a little small. but my concern is that I don't see any of our wing options at the other forward spot as plus rebounders. and neither are Matt or Sal obviously. we'd be counting on Tyler to do almost all of the rebounding.
So in theory you can get two more years out of both Grace and Sal if they take this year as a covid redshirt (or whatever it's being called). But I still think you have to develop more than one replacement, otherwise, the team is really restricted in 2 years to a style of play, if not sooner.
 
"When Francis is scoring, it's mostly just him scoring points. Francis was a strength that we didn't really need. Gilyard can do all the things Francis can do and then some." To me that's literally what you are doing. Saying the team didn't need Blake because Jacob can do everything he can. If that was the case UR wouldn't have went 25-40 Jacob's first two seasons. Its okay to say Jacob played well and stepped up in the absence of his teammates rather than saying "see look how much better Jacob is without Blake" which simply is not true if you look at the win column which at the end of the day that's ALL its about.
While I don't dispute the merit of your argument about Blake's value, the team didn't become magically better with the addition of Blake two years ago. It had a lot to do with the other players maturing and becoming better at their game too. Case in point, Nate dramatically raised his FT% and Grant both rebounded and passed better last year than in the two years prior, and of course, the whole team defense made a significant jump last year after being mired in crap the two years before that. Allocating all or even a meaningful portion of the turnaround to Blake discounts the other conditions that contributed to a much-improved performance.
 
So in theory you can get two more years out of both Grace and Sal if they take this year as a covid redshirt (or whatever it's being called). But I still think you have to develop more than one replacement, otherwise, the team is really restricted in 2 years to a style of play, if not sooner.
If Grace can score 10+ a game and give us anything in the rebounding category, and Sal can avoid stupid fouls and make some FTs, I can live with that.
 
If Grace can score 10+ a game and give us anything in the rebounding category, and Sal can avoid stupid fouls and make some FTs, I can live with that.
Me too, and that'll last us next year and maybe one after that. But then who do we have? Can't just settle for one backup to those cats.
 
I hate to bring everything back to the Head Coach, but isn't it sort of his job to make sure the pieces fill well together?

Yes, and when it became apparent that this team was playing with all of the energy of a wet paper bag, the head coach should have gone and made some personnel changes. He didn't and it became a snowball effect, getting gradually worse and worse.

But watching us in the NIT after his hand was forced by injury, it is not too difficult to imagine, what this team could have been with some proper personnel moves, management when we all saw this thing spiraling downward. One of Mooney's many faults is his inability to read the room.
 
The way I see the 4 year line up.

Golden & Gilyard all 4.

Sherod, Buck & Fore Year 1
Cayo, Woj & Goose Year 2
Cayo, Sherod & Francis Year 3
Cayo, Burton & Francis Year 4

So more changes than just Francis. Although he definitely added something we needed.
I would like to have seen Francis & Gilyard find a better balance but which of them is that on? or is it on the staff?
 
They are both best as alphas, but you can’t have two alphas who basically play the same position in this system.
 
So in theory you can get two more years out of both Grace and Sal if they take this year as a covid redshirt (or whatever it's being called). But I still think you have to develop more than one replacement, otherwise, the team is really restricted in 2 years to a style of play, if not sooner.
yeah, and do we KNOW if Matt and Sal will stay for the extra year? let's say we add a grad transfer 5 this year and Kolek or Healey. next year the grad transfer is gone and Matt and Sal graduate with that choice. if they don't stay, there's no 5 on the roster. you always need THREE guys on a roster with the ability to play the 5. so we'd be scrambling for freshmen and transfers, and we know how tough it is to land ready to go 5's.

so talk to Grace and Sal. if the plan has them staying, maybe we're ok. but just in case ... ideally the transfer big we land this year isn't a grad transfer. he's younger. sorry to my guy, Matt Faw!
 
Agreed. With a healthy roster I think UR has a real shot to win the whole NIT. Mississippi State is not a good basketball team at all. And they're very young; turned the ball over 18 times. UR played hard though no slight to the guys who were out there last night. Truthfully I don't think the A10 gets enough credit for being as talented and as deep as it is as a whole. Hard to win in that conference.
F*ck winning the whole nit. With a healthy roster, and a somewhat competent head coach/athletic department we could be doing what Loyola is doing right now. It’s really not that hard guys.
 
Pretty massive fail when the top two preseason teams in the a10 lose to the garbage that MSU threw out there last night, honestly. Embarrassing for the league.

miss st is a typical middling sec team. In any “above average” year we should win that game 3/4 times. Yet we didn’t. Yes we were short handed but so was miss st. They had 1 of their best players out Tolu Smith due to contract tracing.

some want a participation trophy from a participation trophy tournament. I respect the NIT it has a little bit of cache if u win it. Winning 1 game in a wildly embarrassing & underachieving year means is so far away from that u can’t see it.

i get that every program will have those kind of participation trophy fans there r many kinds we just have too many at UR imo and unfortunately all of our so called leadership.
 
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miss st is a typical middling sec team. In any “above average” year we should win that game 3/4 times. Yet we didn’t. Yes we were short handed but so was miss st. They had 1 of their best players out Tolu Smith due to contract tracing.

some want a participation trophy from a participation trophy tournament. I respect the NIT it has a little bit of cache if u win it. Winning 1 game in a wildly embarrassing & underachieving year means is so far away from that u can’t see it.

i get that every program will have those kind of participation trophy fans there r many kinds we just have too many at UR imo and unfortunately all of our so called leadership.
So he was being paid?

Couldn't resist...it is going to be a long offseason...
 
There was something off all year with the energy of this team and that same energy is gonna be back if they all return. I like the energy we saw last night.
I agree. Why would anyone think if UR came back with the same players yet another year things would be different? Plus kicking the can down the road yet another year doesn’t allow the program any chance to grow. Do we really want another year where the young guys get little to no playing time because of some hairbrained idea that the NCAA had to allow an extra year of eligibility because an NCAA tournament wasn’t played? Nick Sherod was 100% right when he said it is unfair to the younger players who spend just as much time and effort as the starters thinking that they are paying their dues for future playing time.

Yes the pandemic has made life unpleasant for everyone and everyone should know that life isn’t fair. There is no rewind, replay, or redo button. We all have to move on and hopefully learn something from this experience, You can’t live in the past, although Spiders basketball loves to dwell on it.
 
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I want Jake back. Team guy. Blake, just listening to him talk, he can move on. Good player yes, team guy, I just don’t know.
 
I agree. Why would anyone think if UR came back with the same players yet another year things would be different? Plus kicking the can down the road yet another year doesn’t allow the program any chance to grow. Do we really want another year where the young guys get little to no playing time because of some hairbrained idea that the NCAA had to allow an extra year of eligibility because an NCAA tournament wasn’t played? Nick Sherod was 100% right when he said it is unfair to the younger players who spend just as much time and effort as the starters thinking that they are paying their dues for future playing time.

Yes the pandemic has made life unpleasant for everyone and everyone should know that life isn’t fair. There is no rewind, replay, or redo button. We all have to move on and hopefully learn something from this experience, You can’t live in the past, although Spiders basketball loves to dwell on it.
The young guys get an extra year too, if they want it. Ultimately that could impact the incoming freshmen and the free classes behind them I guess.
 
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Agreed. With a healthy roster I think UR has a real shot to win the whole NIT. Mississippi State is not a good basketball team at all. And they're very young; turned the ball over 18 times. UR played hard though no slight to the guys who were out there last night. Truthfully I don't think the A10 gets enough credit for being as talented and as deep as it is as a whole. Hard to win in that conference.

So with the best team ever healthy, maybe we have a chance to win a watered down second rate tournament that other schools refused to play in? That's your gold standard? Some of you set the bar so low that just showing up for the game is an achievement. Are you a lifelong Spider who has suffered through this deal for 16 years, or just another parent stopping by for 4 years and then you're gone? Because I've been cheering on the Spiders for over 50 years. I've seen good before, and this ain't it.
 
We keep adding extra years to players resume. Keep padding stats and hitting the record books. The issue is we aren't winning basketball games. We lost the game against Miss. St. It wasn't based on one bad call either. Missing 9 foul shots and getting dominated on the boards caused the loss. Its the same formula every season. Hope we shoot the lights out but forget huge factors in winning. Which is making foul shots and getting a rebound.
 
We keep adding extra years to players resume. Keep padding stats and hitting the record books. The issue is we aren't winning basketball games. We lost the game against Miss. St. It wasn't based on one bad call either. Missing 9 foul shots and getting dominated on the boards caused the loss. Its the same formula every season. Hope we shoot the lights out but forget huge factors in winning. Which is making foul shots and getting a rebound.
I never blame refs, always free throws and rebounding. Two things a team can control.
 
To be fair, we blame Hardt for some things. Gill and even Miller aren't blameless.

There is also a faction of posters who blame the refs for everything.
And a few who blame COVID and injuries.
Think about this. 1 Mooney has outlasted 3 AD's. He's the one constant in our program. Coach for life. Keeping him is more important than any other measure that can be attributed to the program.
 
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Think about this. 1 Mooney has outlasted 3 AD's. He's the one constant in our program. Coach for life. Keeping him is more important than any other measure that can be attributed to the program.
It would be really interesting to know what Jim Miller would do/have done by now given he handed out the original contract.
 
I hope Gilyard comes back. Without Francis, we have seen the real Gilyard. Nothing against Francis, but he turned Jacob into a defense-only player. This is the Jacob we needed and need again.
I blame Mooney as much as anybody for not figuring out how to max out Gilyard’s potential.
 
I blame Mooney as much as anybody for not figuring out how to max out Gilyard’s potential.

This is a bizarre take. He scored 1500 points, is the career leader in points and steals, and in the top 10 in 3 pointers made.

Say what you want about maxing out the potential of the team while Gilyard was on it, but Gilyard had a pretty incredible career.
 
This is a bizarre take. He scored 1500 points, is the career leader in points and steals, and in the top 10 in 3 pointers made.

Say what you want about maxing out the potential of the team while Gilyard was on it, but Gilyard had a pretty incredible career.
I meant for not getting more out of him offensively this year. There had to be a better way for him and Francis to share the load. Did you think he had a great offensive year this year?
 
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