personally, don't like it but bet the coaches do like it and the student/athletes do like it. bet most rules like this are coach driven but could be wrong.
Where to, Ododa?
- Thread starter KWeaver
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Agree with your premise, but if Alonzo thinks he will be averaging those numbers every game this year, he's going to have to be playing D3 ball. How many times in his career has he ever scored 20 points in a single game? Two? Three? I think he got much better offensively at the end of the year, but I don't see him scoring more than 10-12 ppg for any "normal" system at this level. If Paul Westhead is coaching his team, that's a different story.
What it has done, essentially, is create a certain type of free agency that has never been seen in the college game before. My guess is that redshirts are all but gone in our case, UNLESS it just becomes a fact that our people also want to take advantage of this sort of thing.
Looks like we are going to have to beef up the law school and the school of continuing studies to give more options for masters programs.
Looks like we are going to have to beef up the law school and the school of continuing studies to give more options for masters programs.
Really, ANO is a lot like Darrius Garrett, except ANO is a better FT shooter, and perhaps a better passer than DG. Garrett could run the floor and finish stronger around the rim, though.
I think we are better with ANO than without, but I feel like we will be OK next year with PF, DT, MW, and TJC picking up the slack. I don't think having a dominating shot-blocker has been critical to our defensive success. In fact, during Garrett's senior season, I thought his tendency to collapse and defend the rim actually hurt our overall defense.
Personally, I am very interested is seeing where ANO lands, and analyzing the rationale behind his transfer.
I think we are better with ANO than without, but I feel like we will be OK next year with PF, DT, MW, and TJC picking up the slack. I don't think having a dominating shot-blocker has been critical to our defensive success. In fact, during Garrett's senior season, I thought his tendency to collapse and defend the rim actually hurt our overall defense.
Personally, I am very interested is seeing where ANO lands, and analyzing the rationale behind his transfer.
I agree kee. I don't like him leaving, but I don't think it kills us. Having a player like him and Garret on d allows for a lot of highlight-reel blocks but breaks down on defense by getting them out of position going for blocks which is a problem in a defense based on positioning and knowing where the other guys are.
Garrett was too much about the blocked shot, but I think ANO is a better all around interior defender.
I don't get the concept that the immediate transfer rule is bad for the college game. frustrating, perhaps. hurts us this time. but it doesn't hurt the game at all. I believe it was put if for good reason. you graduate but have a year left. the school you're at may not have what you want for your post grad work. you should certainly be able to go elsewhere for those studies. it's obviously become a free agency period instead. but that gives options for the athlete, so that's a good thing. frustrating for a coach and a fan, but really so what? we can get over it. that's why you have 13 ships. as Mooney said, you learn. maybe you take the transfer possibility into consideration when dealing with a redshirted kid. maybe there's some extra work needed on that relationship, almost re-recruting. or you let him go.
I don't get the concept that the immediate transfer rule is bad for the college game. frustrating, perhaps. hurts us this time. but it doesn't hurt the game at all. I believe it was put if for good reason. you graduate but have a year left. the school you're at may not have what you want for your post grad work. you should certainly be able to go elsewhere for those studies. it's obviously become a free agency period instead. but that gives options for the athlete, so that's a good thing. frustrating for a coach and a fan, but really so what? we can get over it. that's why you have 13 ships. as Mooney said, you learn. maybe you take the transfer possibility into consideration when dealing with a redshirted kid. maybe there's some extra work needed on that relationship, almost re-recruting. or you let him go.
by the way ... Magarity missed the last 10 games with post-concussion syndrome symptoms. the year off is a good idea and likely why he transferred. pretty skilled big guy. good fit for Davidson.
I never understood why so many players go to these P5 schools knowing they will sit the bench most if not their whole career. You would think they would want to be a big fish in a small pond and play rather than a nobody in the ocean. I will give Shaka and RPI credit for creating an atmosphere and alternative for talented kids to play quality basketball outside the big 5 conferences. Few schools have been able to do it. Gonzaga, Wichita St , few others. Seems like this new wave of college "free agency" is here to stay. Geez, wait until they start paying these kids and colleges start bidding for them. The NCAA may have to come up with a draft for transfers!! 
nobody recruited by a P5 thinks they're going to sit the bench their whole career at a P5. At some point, you believe you're going to be a major piece on a final 4 team playing infront of huge crowds on tv. Doesn't work out that way for everyone of course, but you don't get that offer without being really good, competitive and confident.
certainly feel that scholarships are precious, for both parties. some want them guaranteed for four years instead of year to year, great arguments on both sides. not for coaches restricting their players from leaving, not letting them out of their ships but also see that without some restrictions, this entire deal would become chaos, not havoc. it is getting to the point that a staff is recruiting its team all over again each year along with obtaining new guys
Spinner, did you check with UTC (and Willy Wade) before using the word chaos in your post.
http://www.gomocs.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=207731175
SMan, I certainly agree with that, and I understand their ego comes in to play too. "I play for UNC". However I can look down UNC's, Duke's, Kentucky's and Arizona's bench and tell you who is never going to play. I am sure you could too. Seems like their Dad or HS coach could tell them the same thing.
Understood & agree that those would not be ANO's numbers this year. I used the numbers to illustrate the point that a significant cog would happier and much less likely to leave.
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Do you know something. Oklahoma State is losing their center and doesn't appear to have a good backup...
If he does that, yes, I would question our use of him and our coaching of him. I think they play more of an offensive-based system than we do, though, so I wouldn't be shocked if he scored a few more points per game. But yeah, it would be worth questioning.
But I don't perceive that any of those schools are slam-dunks from an NCAA tourney or playing time perspective. Think about it, if the assumption is that ANO waited until he knew where he was going to land before giving his notice to transfer, the fact that all these other places have contacted him in the past day is a moot point.
I keep thinking about the old saying about the devil you know versus the devil you don't know.
Again, I will be very interested in seeing where he lands...
I keep thinking about the old saying about the devil you know versus the devil you don't know.
Again, I will be very interested in seeing where he lands...
In my 60 years as a Spider fan I have learned two things whether its basketball or football!
1)You can never have a big enough lead! ex- Spiders vs, Miami in the NIT
2) You can never have too many quality players.
You are never more than an injury or personnel problem or both away from changing the course of your season. ex(Lindsay and Williams two years ago)
While he had skill limitations, ANO still had a lot of experience in the"System" while doing certain things better than a lot of the remaining players who will be back. His absence will give the coach fewer options in the coming season for whatever reason. IMHO, we will not be a better team without him.
Was this is a situation that was not managed properly? The coach in today's T-D admitted as much. Per the Coach regarding transfers,
"The one thing that I try to do personally is try to learn from it. Could we have done anything better? Could I have done anything a little bit better? Try to learn from that, and as we move forward, just be a better coach and be a better mentor to the guys."
1)You can never have a big enough lead! ex- Spiders vs, Miami in the NIT
2) You can never have too many quality players.
You are never more than an injury or personnel problem or both away from changing the course of your season. ex(Lindsay and Williams two years ago)
While he had skill limitations, ANO still had a lot of experience in the"System" while doing certain things better than a lot of the remaining players who will be back. His absence will give the coach fewer options in the coming season for whatever reason. IMHO, we will not be a better team without him.
Was this is a situation that was not managed properly? The coach in today's T-D admitted as much. Per the Coach regarding transfers,
"The one thing that I try to do personally is try to learn from it. Could we have done anything better? Could I have done anything a little bit better? Try to learn from that, and as we move forward, just be a better coach and be a better mentor to the guys."
I would imagine out of that group, Ga. Tech is the original poacher. They are not good and ANO would improve their team. He would play at home, be in the ACC, but not be in the NCAA tourney.
Brian Gregory's seat at GA Tech is super-hot, if they weren't still paying Paul Hewitt a million a year until 2019, I think they would have dumped Gregory in March.
I can't imagine ANO would leave UR to go there to get some additional playing time on a P5 conference cellar-dweller that has zero chance for post season play. There are too many other places where he could potentially get playing time AND post season opportunities.
I can't imagine ANO would leave UR to go there to get some additional playing time on a P5 conference cellar-dweller that has zero chance for post season play. There are too many other places where he could potentially get playing time AND post season opportunities.
doesn't have to be true poaching. I think more likely someone close to ANO would have spoken to someone about what kind of interest there would be, and was told there would be a ton of interest. athletic 6'9" rim protector with some offensive skills who shot 80% from the line? yeah, a ton of interest. once secure with that knowledge, he made his decision. I don't think he knew where he was going when he told CM. I really don't think a school reached out to him before that. that gets out, and your reputation is shot.
I'm generally a fan of CM and am not looking at this as a reason to bash him, but I feel strongly that he mismanaged ANO this year. There are a variety of reasons why Alonzo is leaving, several of which are non-nefarious. But I think he has a pretty legitimate gripe playing under 20 minutes a game. He is a really strong defender and a guy who can get points if he isn't given the quick hook. I'm not suggesting he has to start (although I think he could with TJ at 4 and TA at 3) but he has to be a key cog. I don't think CM was flexible enough to get him on the floor more or at least sell him on a role where he could be a 12/6 guy for us next year. Just how it looked to me ever since he lost his starting spot.
If you are paid over $1,000,000 per year and you are still learning on the same job for which you have had for past 10 years at the same place,something ain't right.
Having ANO transfer is a big missed opportunity to have a very good 15-16 season irrespective of our incoming frosh.
Appreciate all the previous rationalization hoping(and praying) for a positive outcome.
CM being oblivious to ANO's thinking about his "basketball situation at UR" points out a fundamental lack of 1-1 communication with at least one of his players.ANO's decision had to have been brewing for a while.
Having ANO transfer is a big missed opportunity to have a very good 15-16 season irrespective of our incoming frosh.
Appreciate all the previous rationalization hoping(and praying) for a positive outcome.
CM being oblivious to ANO's thinking about his "basketball situation at UR" points out a fundamental lack of 1-1 communication with at least one of his players.ANO's decision had to have been brewing for a while.
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As a counterpoint, I want someone who is constantly trying to improve as our head coach not someone who doesn't learn from their mistakes because he thinks knows everything he needs to know since he has had the job for 10 years. If this was a consistent problem then I would question if something was wrong, but it is the first time in 10 years and Mooney is learning from it.
Ulla, me too! But, I'm a typical fan, I want and expect that the Spiders will win every game by double digits. And that's a safe hope for the next 6 months. But UR does have much to be proud of.
ANO just had I think no offense game . Block the shot is not everything . How can a player who never plays the system offense transfer to the school and take your position ? So maybe he is not so good
Fezz, I tend to agree with you. Kid had a ton of talent coming in. watching his h.s. youtube clips, maybe had the most of anyone Mooney brought in. Is this an indictment on Mooney or the player? I tend to feel individual player development is 90% on the player, but in some cases the coach has to be able to provide the path. I remember watching him blow by a Fordham defender three years ago and finish, and thinking why can't he do that consistently, but he is young. 3 years later same thing.
Alonzo showed plenty of offensive game down the stretch of this season but I often saw him sitting out on the wing where he wasn't going to play a prominent role in the offense. I just feel,it was a missed opportunity.
I do think he was hesitant at times. That to me is part player, part coach. Too many of our guys have played like that through the years. I think the quick hook breeds a lack of self confidence with a lot of guys and that to me is coaching.
Sadly we won't get a chance to see him beat that rap, at least not here.
I do think he was hesitant at times. That to me is part player, part coach. Too many of our guys have played like that through the years. I think the quick hook breeds a lack of self confidence with a lot of guys and that to me is coaching.
Sadly we won't get a chance to see him beat that rap, at least not here.
think this has turned into a forum for those guys who are anti CM, for their beliefs since the season ended better than they thought it would. if a guy lacks confidence coming in, doubtful he will be mr. america, coming out. we obtain guys sometimes because they don't have the swag, the cockiness, the confidence, that big programs want in their players. sometimes that gets better over 4 years, sometimes it does not, can blame it on the coach but it is the personality of the player more than anything else. we had a player recently who did not even start until his senior season in high school. took him 3 or 4 years here to blossom and live up to his physical potential but alas, the personality at the next level is still dormant. people are who they are and you can come at them in any number of ways and they may break out or they may never break out other than in flashes. think our team is close and close to our coaches and it is a shame that some players have to be babysat instead of manning up and taking some of the responsibility.
Web, I agree with most of that. What I am saying is that a player doesn't need the added pressure before he lets go of a shot that if I miss this I am coming out of the game. I would just like our guys to play a bit more loose and not automatically look over their shoulder after a miss. That's what I loved about Kendall, he didn't have that fear even though he was pulled many times over his career. For a turnover or missed defensive assignment, heck yes yank them!! I like Mooney a lot, but I think I am allowed to point out a few quirks he has that I may not agree with.
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