OOC Grade is in!!! No surprise, it's an F

[brooklyn brownstone]

I said preseason that if Moon couldn't find his way to 12-1 against this garbage OOC schedule, it would be an F grade from me.

Little did I know he'd turn in his work early. Totally freed up my holidays and for that I'm thankful. Also prevented me from making an ill-advised trip to Lewisburg, PA.

F.

Stay leafy.

 

[spider23]

Yes, we are back to SCREAMING "We are a mediocre program with low goals and adverse to executing winning basketball plays like defense and rebounding"

 

[MrTbone]

I posted this in another thread. It’s thoroughly demoralizing to start the season off this poorly. I know the whole argument about “we’re never getting an at large with this schedule so it doesn’t really matter”, but it totally matters.

Early losses like this set the tone for whether students come out, for fans making or skipping games, for travel to away games, etc.

Gotta do better.

 

[spiders13]

will we win against D1 competition this year, LOL. unbelievable.

 

[spiderfriend]

Very good reason we have this weak a$$ schedule.

 

[97spiderfan]

I'm beginning to think our OOC was more of an intentional decision by the coaching staff, rather than the message we have been told, that they couldn't do any better.

 

[spiderman]

 

[spider23]

So far my worst fears coming through: Last year was an abberation - Mooney had three tough minded athletic/defenders/rebounders in Dji, Bigs, and Harris - which drove the defensive mindset. Which seemed to have been instilled somewhat by Boyden the year before.
Now our team seems to have zero identity - other than Hunt - and he can't do it all. Hunt and King were tough hard nosed defenders last year too - and Quinn used his size well.
It's early, but the interviews and messaging I hear from our fearless mooniocrity scream lack of urgency.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

there are a lot of good players and good teams in Division 1, 23, and they compete nightly.

 

[VT4700]

So far my worst fears coming through: Last year was an abberation - Mooney had three tough minded athletic/defenders/rebounders in Dji, Bigs, and Harris - which drove the defensive mindset. Which seemed to have been instilled somewhat by Boyden the year before.
Now our team seems to have zero identity - other than Hunt - and he can't do it all. Hunt and King were tough hard nosed defenders last year too - and Quinn used his size well.
It's early, but the interviews and messaging I hear from our fearless mooniocrity scream lack of urgency.

I wouldn't worry too much about what you hear from interviews. Mooney will always be a player's coach and we have heard from guys that he does show urgency and does get on guys. He just doesn't do that during interviews. Never has and never will. His interviews have no effect on how we play because he likely tells the guys something else in the locker room.

No doubt we miss the defense we lost a lot, but I think we miss the offense we lost a lot more. King averaged 18 a game and shot 41.4% from 3 on with high volume ( 80 made 3s). Bigs averaged 11.2 a game and made 48 3s at 37.2%. Their games allowed Dji to drive to the basket and average 10.2 a game.

 

[Captain Anderson]

I heard Bob Black mention on the radio broadcast last night that we haven't won a (true) non-conference road game since December of 2021? Is that true? Coach Mooney keeps mentioning that this is a really good shooting team and I wouldn't be surprised if we see that on Saturday against Bucknell...at some point this season more of those open looks will fall so I'm actually less "sky is falling" after last night. Most basketball teams cannot overcome absolutely terrible shooting but with our program we really have no other options or hope if our outside shots aren't falling...Charlotte's weren't falling either last night so they aggressively drove to the basket, drew fouls, and hit the offensive glass. I would love to at least have that option in play but at this point we all know what to expect and can't even be upset when those things don't happen.

 

[whampas]

I heard Bob Black mention on the radio broadcast last night that we haven't won a (true) non-conference road game since December of 2021? Is that true? Coach Mooney keeps mentioning that this is a really good shooting team and I wouldn't be surprised if we see that on Saturday against Bucknell...at some point this season more of those open looks will fall so I'm actually less "sky is falling" after last night. Most basketball teams cannot overcome absolutely terrible shooting but with our program we really have no other options or hope if our outside shots aren't falling...Charlotte's weren't falling either last night so they aggressively drove to the basket, drew fouls, and hit the offensive glass. I would love to at least have that option in play but at this point we all know what to expect and can't even be upset when those things don't happen.

Oh, captain my captain. Crash.

 

[VT4700]

We won @ No Iowa in Dec, 2021. Since then, we have lost on the road to Charleston, Toledo, W&M in 2022 and BC, Wichita St, and No Iowa last year. So, last night's loss was the 7th straight road OOC loss.

 

[GKiller]

I'm beginning to think our OOC was more of an intentional decision by the coaching staff, rather than the message we have been told, that they couldn't do any better.

Eh, I think Mooney is even embarassed by this schedule & also the two non d1 games. I said this before, but if you schedule hard and take some lumps some year, who cares. No need for Moon to worry, he's lifetime coach. Better to lose against good national teams than the dregs too. But the biggest thing is you set a precedent u set a culture with schedule. And u get connections for future, maybe u get into a 2 for 1 deal for instance. So if we did do that it's actually hurting u for future when u do have a team that can win.

 

[GKiller]

We won @ No Iowa in Dec, 2021. Since then, we have lost on the road to Charleston, Toledo, W&M in 2022 and BC, Wichita St, and No Iowa last year. So, last night's loss was the 7th straight road OOC loss.

8th. Remember we got blasted by Va Tech on road in NIT. Not a traditional Nov or Dec OOC game but a true road game that counts.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Eh, I think Mooney is even embarassed by this schedule & also the two non d1 games. I said this before, but if you schedule hard and take some lumps some year, who cares. No need for Moon to worry, he's lifetime coach. Better to lose against good national teams than the dregs too. But the biggest thing is you set a precedent u set a culture with schedule. And u get connections for future, maybe u get into a 2 for 1 deal for instance. So if we did do that it's actually hurting u for future when u do have a team that can win.

This. 100% this.

Lose by 20 to Charlotte or lose by 25 to a good team, same, but one has a high upside in scheduling and the other not so much.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Eh, I think Mooney is even embarassed by this schedule & also the two non d1 games. I said this before, but if you schedule hard and take some lumps some year, who cares. No need for Moon to worry, he's lifetime coach. Better to lose against good national teams than the dregs too. But the biggest thing is you set a precedent u set a culture with schedule. And u get connections for future, maybe u get into a 2 for 1 deal for instance. So if we did do that it's actually hurting u for future when u do have a team that can win.

I thought we were setting up a 2-1 with Mount Olive?

 

[Captain Anderson]

I thought we were setting up a 2-1 with Mount Olive?

We visit them twice in return for their generosity this year.

 

[97spiderfan]

Eh, I think Mooney is even embarassed by this schedule & also the two non d1 games. I said this before, but if you schedule hard and take some lumps some year, who cares. No need for Moon to worry, he's lifetime coach. Better to lose against good national teams than the dregs too. But the biggest thing is you set a precedent u set a culture with schedule. And u get connections for future, maybe u get into a 2 for 1 deal for instance. So if we did do that it's actually hurting u for future when u do have a team that can win.

Good points and can't disagree. But, what I think we will now pivot too is if we go .500 this year, he can say, rebuilding year, we still were a .500 team despite the youth/new pieces. And enough people will accept that at face value, without looking into the fact that most of the wins will be Quad 3/4 wins as the result of our OOC and probably beating a few of the other bad teams in the A-10.

Of course, right now, if you lose to Marist at home and then 17 to a very mid Charlotte team, tough to see .500. And as you say, no need for Mooney to worry, he just signed his extension, his check cashes whether we win or lose. He could probably run 2 maybe 3 below .500 seasons off in a row before he begins to feel a tiny bit of pressure. He doesn't even know what pressure is at this point. The admin doesn't give it to him, the fan base doesn't, the media doesn't. All he has to do is show up and punch the clock and he is golden.

 

[SpiderTrap]

But can any coach these days use the words "rebuilding" when its all about portal and transfers and less about developing HS players.

In the old days (like 5 years ago) you could say rebuilding if you had an older team who made a run and they graduated. Then you might have had some younger players or inexperienced players asked to play major minutes that they never did before - so you expect a rebuild year to get everyone up to speed and hopefully by the next year - your back at it again.

But now with the portal - I don't know if rebuilding exists. Since your not relying on players within your school anymore to progress. Look at our roster this year. Your relying more on transfers to step in and play right away and keep everything moving.

 

[fan2011]

Attitudes here will change when we beat Auburn.

 

[spider23]

Good points and can't disagree. But, what I think we will now pivot too is if we go .500 this year, he can say, rebuilding year, we still were a .500 team despite the youth/new pieces. And enough people will accept that at face value, without looking into the fact that most of the wins will be Quad 3/4 wins as the result of our OOC and probably beating a few of the other bad teams in the A-10.

Of course, right now, if you lose to Marist at home and then 17 to a very mid Charlotte team, tough to see .500. And as you say, no need for Mooney to worry, he just signed his extension, his check cashes whether we win or lose. He could probably run 2 maybe 3 below .500 seasons off in a row before he begins to feel a tiny bit of pressure. He doesn't even know what pressure is at this point. The admin doesn't give it to him, the fan base doesn't, the media doesn't. All he has to do is show up and punch the clock and he is golden.

This is what's frustrating. Hell, we extended him when we did not have an AD. Zero pressure to win. Which I don't agree with since you are getting around $1.5 million per year.

 

[SpiderGuy]

Eh, I think Mooney is even embarassed by this schedule & also the two non d1 games. I said this before, but if you schedule hard and take some lumps some year, who cares. No need for Moon to worry, he's lifetime coach. Better to lose against good national teams than the dregs too. But the biggest thing is you set a precedent u set a culture with schedule. And u get connections for future, maybe u get into a 2 for 1 deal for instance. So if we did do that it's actually hurting u for future when u do have a team that can win.

Moon might be embarrassed by the schedule, but he should be more embarrassed losing to teams we should be beating. I’ve been supporting the team 50 years, am a season ticket holder, but just truly burnt out by Mooney. It’s beyond time to have moved on. For the first time in 50 years, I turned off the game at halftime. I do hope the fellas get it together, but the buck stops at the top…extensions and rewards be damned. We can and should be better.

 

[whampas]

Moon might be embarrassed by the schedule, but he should be more embarrassed losing to teams we should be beating. I’ve been supporting the team 50 years, am a season ticket holder, but just truly burnt out by Mooney. It’s beyond time to have moved on. For the first time in 50 years, I turned off the game at halftime. I do hope the fellas get it together, but the buck stops at the top…extensions and rewards be damned. We can and should be better.

I feel your pain. It got so bad for me that I stopped attending live basketball games. I do watch the TV games but find myself laughing out loud at the predictably of what's about to happen. I'm way over Mooney and Richmond basketball. Football, lacrosse and now baseball along with most women's sports keeps my interest.

 

[gcarter52]

I really feel for the guys, it is time for change at the top! Why is it that none of our basketball greats are on staff? I have nothing against our assistants, just so you know that!!

 

[Eight Legger]

You guys. Mooney is playing the long game. We couldn't get any good OOC games this year because we were too good last year and too much of a threat to beat good teams. So in order to remedy that, we're going to lose to a bunch of bad teams this year, and presto! Great OOC next year. Try to keep up.

 

[spider23]

EL i do think the miracle run Gilly's senior year and then the aberration team last year have fueled Mooney back to unbelievable complacency levels. Let's check back in three years and see where we are. Hoping I am wrong but even Boyden seems subdued this season, and apparently Gipe took a year off from scheduling duties. Carry on with your daily lives.

 

[MrTbone]

I don’t think complacency is really the right term. I’m sure he cares and I’m sure the other coaches do as well. But there are clearly no consequences to when either the strategy or results fail.

The biggest issue is there’s a large contingent of individuals who are now conditioned that this is how things should be. 20 years of mostly mediocre results punctuated by the occasional good/poor season makes it easy for UR to not rock the boat.

I think the only way this ever changes is if CM retires, I don’t see a realistic scenario where anything else changes course.

 

[Eight Legger]

He's not going anywhere before Danny is old enough to play for him. Getting closer, but still a few years away.

 

[97spiderfan]

The biggest issue is there’s a large contingent of individuals who are now conditioned that this is how things should be.

And this contingent of people is clustered in and around the Robins Center and probably most of the guys who run the NIL, led by Mooney best buddy Queally. Their is a whole lot of confirmation bias in this group and you are correct that very few were around pre-Mooney to know that our entire operation had an entirely different trajectory and mission.

Pre-Mooney, we left our comfortable confines of the CAA to move the everything to a very strong and ascending A-10. That was a move that took balls and some pretty damn high confidence that we would succeed.

Now, our leadership is downgrading our FB program and constantly makes excuses for being just average. A completely different mindset and mission has taken over UR athletics over the past 20 years. It is entrenched, it is not going away, and most importantly it lacks the knowledge and history from 20 years ago, that many alumni and the fanbase remember. Hence, this huge disconnect, frustration for many of us with the current athletic leadership.

Chuck Boone would have dispatched Mooney ten years because he had a much grander vision and expectations for our MBB than John Hardt could ever even envision. And Boone would have been supported by most of our athletic operations too because they too had the same expectation.

 

[VT4700]

EL i do think the miracle run Gilly's senior year and then the aberration team last year have fueled Mooney back to unbelievable complacency levels. Let's check back in three years and see where we are. Hoping I am wrong but even Boyden seems subdued this season, and apparently Gipe took a year off from scheduling duties. Carry on with your daily lives.

I don't get the complacency comment. After 3 games, you say this? We just won a regular season A-10 title last year, and went out and got 5 transfers in the portal. Transfers that everyone on here were super psyched about. Now, 3 games in, our whole coaching staff is 'unbelievably complacent"? Come on, man.

2020: 24-7.
2021: 14-9
2022: 24-13. A-10 tourney title and dance win over Iowa.
2023: 15-18
2024: 23-10. A-10 regular season title.
2025: 1-2.

Yet, all we hear on here are the see, I told u Mooney sucks, we never win, we are too complacent, and no one cares comments, and on and on. No question we have looked pretty bad so far. Hopefully, we can turn things around and play a lot better. But, many on here act like this has been the norm the past several years and the program and coach just don't care enough when in reality we have had a lot of success the past 5 years and there has been no sign at all of complacency from anyone. Just unreal what we hear on here after a loss or two.

 

[8legs1dream]

24-7!!!!

Yahtzee

 

[whampas]

24-7!!!!

Yahtzee

My initial reaction to this was "you must be dyslexic " but I see what you doing here.

 

[spiderstudent17]

I don't get the complacency comment. After 3 games, you say this? We just won a regular season A-10 title last year, and went out and got 5 transfers in the portal. Transfers that everyone on here were super psyched about. Now, 3 games in, our whole coaching staff is 'unbelievably complacent"? Come on, man.

2020: 24-7.
2021: 14-9
2022: 24-13. A-10 tourney title and dance win over Iowa.
2023: 15-18
2024: 23-10. A-10 regular season title.
2025: 1-2.

Yet, all we hear on here are the see, I told u Mooney sucks, we never win, we are too complacent, and no one cares comments, and on and on. No question we have looked pretty bad so far. Hopefully, we can turn things around and play a lot better. But, many on here act like this has been the norm the past several years and the program and coach just don't care enough when in reality we have had a lot of success the past 5 years and there has been no sign at all of complacency from anyone. Just unreal what we hear on here after a loss or two.

I completely agree. That’s the part I don’t understand by some comments made. For some, every loss seems to be an opportunity to express how it is representative of UR’s complacency and lack of commitment to basketball. Yet, when we had the best A10 regular season just last year, there’s no acknowledgment of our commitment to basketball and instead the talking points shift to how we didn’t make the NCAAs 10+ years ago, as if that matters much now in 2024.

We can acknowledge these losses are bad and the need for significant improvement this year, while also recognizing that these losses are not reflective of changes to UR’s clear commitment to our basketball program.

 

[GKiller]

I completely agree. That’s the part I don’t understand by some comments made. For some, every loss seems to be an opportunity to express how it is representative of UR’s complacency and lack of commitment to basketball. Yet, when we had the best A10 regular season just last year, there’s no acknowledgment of our commitment to basketball and instead the talking points shift to how we didn’t make the NCAAs 10+ years ago, as if that matters much now in 2024.

We can acknowledge these losses are bad and the need for significant improvement this year, while also recognizing that these losses are not reflective of changes to UR’s clear commitment to our basketball program.

we're on season 5 since 2020 and u just responded to that so I don't see much difference how that matters.

my more than 2 cents...I have to go back to the whole reason we moved to A10....NCAAs. that was an institutional goal/expectation. We have 3 possibly for 20 years, 19 with Covid. NCAA is #1 metric by far. I'm sorry i will go back that far because I think we need to accountable to that. same as garbage 9-25 vs, VCU. If vcu blows our doors off it will probably be well vcu is so good this year what can u do. & last year was great, but I've said this many times, u r judged in sports by how u finish primarily, and we fell apart. we get credit for 2022 even tho we underperformed greatly in reg season. we have 1 ncaa in last 13 years unless we go in 2025. I know u don't like me to bring up the "one of the top basektball programs in the nation" thing but does 1 in 13 get you that?

unrelated tangent we're 0-5 in d1 games since we cut down those nets.

Remember Bob Black statement. even he publicly said 1 in 4 ncaa is very reasonable & minimum. Frankly that's conservative but it was coming from a guarded U of R employee. We are 1 for 6 as of now and doesn't look good to improve.

also u have to frame it around the 4 years left on contract, AFTER this season. Why would Mooney's results give him 4 years? It makes sense to virtually nobody except if r close to him personally. 24 year job security, what's the best we can expect based on his history 1 more NCAA to go 4 for 24? worst case is 3 for 24. so that part is frustrating because ppl feel stuck. And I think if u look back we're not good after extensions, we go into drought or down cycle. so perhaps there is a here we go again attitude.

I realize there r redundancies in what I say but that's because I actually care. Also it's not going to stop me for rooting for this team & Mooney to do well. I would love for TJ and Grant and VT4700 and Matt Smith and Ulla's ranch to crush me for doubting.

 

[MrTbone]

I don't get the complacency comment. After 3 games, you say this? We just won a regular season A-10 title last year, and went out and got 5 transfers in the portal. Transfers that everyone on here were super psyched about. Now, 3 games in, our whole coaching staff is 'unbelievably complacent"? Come on, man.

2020: 24-7.
2021: 14-9
2022: 24-13. A-10 tourney title and dance win over Iowa.
2023: 15-18
2024: 23-10. A-10 regular season title.
2025: 1-2.

Yet, all we hear on here are the see, I told u Mooney sucks, we never win, we are too complacent, and no one cares comments, and on and on. No question we have looked pretty bad so far. Hopefully, we can turn things around and play a lot better. But, many on here act like this has been the norm the past several years and the program and coach just don't care enough when in reality we have had a lot of success the past 5 years and there has been no sign at all of complacency from anyone. Just unreal what we hear on here after a loss or two.

I don’t like the “complacency” language as I think it’s not actually the case. That said, the OOC performance the past 5 years has been pretty poor, which is why I personally get super frustrated. We are basically on life support for the ncaa tournament each season, perhaps with exception to the 24-7 season where I think we were good enough to get at large but it wasn’t a gimme.

I am a 30+ year fan and I hate that I already am borderline not caring three games into the season with an absolutely unimpressive set of foes. Gotta do better.

 

[Spiders4ever]

Should have gotten Tony Shaver when we had the chance.

 

[MrTbone]

I completely agree. That’s the part I don’t understand by some comments made. For some, every loss seems to be an opportunity to express how it is representative of UR’s complacency and lack of commitment to basketball. Yet, when we had the best A10 regular season just last year, there’s no acknowledgment of our commitment to basketball and instead the talking points shift to how we didn’t make the NCAAs 10+ years ago, as if that matters much now in 2024.

We can acknowledge these losses are bad and the need for significant improvement this year, while also recognizing that these losses are not reflective of changes to UR’s clear commitment to our basketball program.

The conversation isn’t always about not making the tournament 10 years ago. For me, it’s not making the tournament last year. We had an incredible conference run and we didn’t sniff the ncaa. Literally no chance to get in without winning the autobid.

Making the tournament for me is the barometer. If we aren’t in the tournament discussion regularly that actually raises a legitimate question about “commitment”. We can do all the facilities and NIL investments in the world but those things don’t win you games. Winning games comes down to strong recruiting and better than average game planning. One or both of these isn’t quite right, at least empirically based on making the tournament.