The Fight in Ukraine and its Heroes

[KE Spider]

Careful parsing of that report, can read what you choose from it. Overall, fairly balanced.

Trump, being Trump, overstates (lies about) his case, but for a European war the Continental countries should be overwhelmingly the largest contributors. They are not.

The point is very simple, WWII ended in 1945. It is no longer USA's responsibility to defend those who are capable of defending themselves and that have chiseled us for decades on defense spending.

Pony up, take care of yourselves, we have your back, but the largess is over and it should be. NATO survives, but Europeans need to pull up their big boy defense pants.

 

[urfan1]

Point is the Europeans are doing just what you demand, give them credit.

 

[KE Spider]

'The United States is slightly ahead of the EU in providing military assistance, and the EU is slightly ahead of the United States in providing financial assistance. At the same time, almost 90% of financial assistance from EU institutions has been provided in the form of loans, albeit on very generous terms, and approximately 60% of U.S. financial assistance is provided in the form of grants."

"The publication notes that the largest European economies can do much more, as the annual commitments of Germany and Britain, together with the United States, amount to only 0.2% of their GDP."

Applaud the Europeans contributions, but submit not close to where it should be given it is a Eastern European war.

 

[Long Time Spider Fan]

The US, along with Russia, refused to vote today for a UN resolution condemning the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Sickening. Trump's adoration of Putin continues. Republicans truly have become the party of Putin.

 

[Eight Legger]

Trump had the nerve to insult the French president in the White House twice today during a press session, first by lying and saying that European countries were just loaning money to Ukraine but would get it back, and then (after Macron corrected him and said they had unconditionally given money to Ukraine) telling "Well you can believe that if you want to" and rolling his eyes.

A pathetic human being.

 

[Section 204and5]

Trump had the nerve to insult the French president in the White House twice today during a press session, first by lying and saying that European countries were just loaning money to Ukraine but would get it back, and then (after Macron corrected him and said they had unconditionally given money to Ukraine) telling "Well you can believe that if you want to" and rolling his eyes.

A pathetic human being.

Eight - pathetic human being is IMO a huge understatement. I personally think he is one of the top five worst human beings on the planet (Putin gets my top spot). I'm sure others think that equates to Trump Derangement Syndrome, but I'm pretty sure I could debate and win that argument.

 

[Eight Legger]

You're not wrong. Who else in history could lie about everything constantly, make blatantly offensive and dangerous decisions daily, attempt to overthrow the government of the nation he was elected to lead and then, when people dare to call him out for those things, manage to convince his sheep that he's being unfairly targeted by people who are simply out to get him. It's theater of the absurd and deranged. Millions of people who know better have fallen for it. It's a pathetic indictment on the absolute stupidity of our nation.

And to justify all of that, I'm sure someone will now chime in about three people dying in Benghazi as if Hillary herself executed them.

 

[Wood Hall]

Hey, we're voting on the same side as North Korea and Russia at the United Nations. What a great peer group.

 

[Gallipoli]

Russia has achieved a political breakthrough, curtesy of President Trump. Russia's fortunes have improved dramatically.

"Russia has achieved perhaps the most stunning breakthrough of the war. It just wasn’t on the battlefield.

The initial comments by Trump early after his inauguration gave some hope that he would put pressure on Russia’s Putin to end his war against Ukraine....

The past two weeks have seen a shocking turn of events in European and Ukrainian security affairs. A disdain for Ukraine and President Zelenskyy, and lack of support for the defence of Ukraine, was telegraphed by Trump, Vance and others during the lead up to the U.S. presidential elections....


As it turns out, this was a false hope. The past week has seen a return to the pre-election posture by the Trump administration that favours the Russian narrative for the war. As I noted in my most recent weekly update, we have seen the following events:

• Last Tuesday, President Trump doubled down on his personal war with President Zelenskyy calling him a poor negotiator and grossly incompetent.
• Trump accused Ukraine of starting the war, stating that “You should have ended it — three years. You should have never been there. You should have never started it.”
• Trump called for elections in Ukraine. “We have a situation where we haven’t had elections in Ukraine, where we have martial law in Ukraine, where the leader in Ukraine — I mean I hate to say it, but he’s down at 4% approval rating.”
• The U.S. continued pushing Ukraine to sign an extraordinarily one-sided deal on rare earths.
• In arguments over a G7 communique, the U.S. wanted reference to Russia as an aggressor removed.
• Trump accused the UK and France of “not doing anything” to end the war in Ukraine.
• During the week, Zelenskyy stated he was not going to sign a deal that obligated Ukraine to pay the U.S. ten times the amount of aid provided to Ukraine, and which would impoverish future generations of Ukrainians. A deal appears to have been struck that does not include the most extortionate claims from Trump.
• U.S. Secretary of State Rubio described how he wished to work on economic collaboration between the U.S. and Russia
• The U.S. pressured Ukraine to tone down its UN resolution for 24 February 2025 about the Russian invasions of Ukraine.
• Yesterday, the U.S. sided with Russia on two UN resolutions. The first was a a European-drafted resolution condemning Moscow's actions and supporting Ukraine's territorial integrity. The second was a US-drafted resolution calling for an end to the war but with no criticism of Russia.

The culmination of these events, and Russian posturing over the last decade, is a major political breakthough by Russia. To paraphrase Obi Wan Kenobi in Star Wars (just in case of you don’t know who Obi Wan is), this isn’t the breakthrough we were looking for.
Mick Ryan through his Substack Account

 

[urfan1]

Trump loves Putin, or Putin has something on Trump.

 

[Eight Legger]

Both. Russia covered his debts. He sold his soul for a buck. Joke's on them, I guess, since he doesn't have one.

 

[Wood Hall]

Trump loves Putin, or Putin has something on Trump.

it's been reported for years that Putin has an embarrassing video of Trump with some teenage hookers. I certainly believe it.

 

[Gallipoli]

Each of you have a terrible case of TDS. I do not, however I do not have trouble criticizing Trump when he makes mistakes.
Trump does not have the perspective of history. His foreign policy is derisively referred to as transactional, which means it revolves around him. Any deal Trump sets up now will NOT stand the test of time. For that reason, his capitulation to Russia is akin to Neville Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler in 1938. Unless Putin is stopped, the war will continue. Appeasement and land for peace will not work.

 

[Gallipoli]

This is a good summary of why Trump's actions are wrong.

Point #11 is clear:

11. No single step taken by an incoming Trump Administragtion could be more damaging to our country or party than to embrace appeasement. This is especially true when Ukraine is winning on the ground and Russia is feeling the huge losses and economic squeeze. 74-nations got on board with full support of the Russians being pushed out on Ukraine. Abandonming an ally that is winning, fighting one of our chief enemies, supported by virtually the whole world, will destroy America deterrence. [If the US will not support an ally that can win, what we will do where the local ally is incapable of winning without US combat involvement? Our enemies will read this as proving we will stay home. That will create the greatest risk oif WW3 since 1945.]

 

[Long Time Spider Fan]

Each of you have a terrible case of TDS. I do not, however I do not have trouble criticizing Trump when he makes mistakes.
Trump does not have the perspective of history. His foreign policy is derisively referred to as transactional, which means it revolves around him. Any deal Trump sets up now will NOT stand the test of time. For that reason, his capitulation to Russia is akin to Neville Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler in 1938. Unless Putin is stopped, the war will continue. Appeasement and land for peace will not work.

Looked in the mirror recently? l'm not going to go back and count, but I believe you criticized Biden with more posts on this forum than any of the anti-Trump posters, and I would say it isn't even close. You might have had the worst BDS in the country. Stop being so hypocritical. I do appreciate your criticism of Trump though, even though it is limited to Russia and the Russia/Ukraine war. Its good to know that you don't think the guy you voted for is perfect, like Trump himself and many of his sheep followers do.

 

[Gallipoli]

Looked in the mirror recently? l'm not going to go back and count, but I believe you criticized Biden with more posts on this forum than any of the anti-Trump posters, and I would say it isn't even close. You might have had the worst BDS in the country. Stop being so hypocritical. I do appreciate your criticism of Trump though, even though it is limited to Russia and the Russia/Ukraine war. Its good to know that you don't think the guy you voted for is perfect, like Trump himself and many of his sheep followers do.

With all due respect, you on the left refused to criticize Biden, even when he made mistakes. Biden made major mistakes that hurt this country immeasurably. It will take years to clean up his immigration mess. It will also take years to recover from his foreign policy mistakes, beginning with Afghanistan. His perfidy in pumping trillions of dollars into the economy, spiking inflation will also have long-term implications for affordable housing.

Trump is doing everything right, except Ukraine. There Trump is making major mistakes.

My choice was Nikki Haley.

Nikki Haley would have swept more states than Trump, although she would not have been as strong as Trump on immigration.

By the way, I still think Biden won the debate. He should not have dropped out in favor of a DEI hire.

 

[KE Spider]

Could not agree more with your first paragraph. Among reasonable people, everyone sees this. Hence Trump 2.0. Brought it on yourselves.

 

[Long Time Spider Fan]

Could not agree more with your first paragraph. Among reasonable people, everyone sees this. Hence Trump 2.0. Brought it on yourselves.

"Among reasonable people, everyone sees this."

You sound just like Trump again. I'll say the same then, among reasonable people everyone sees what Trump and Musk are doing to this country, and its a disaster.

 

[KE Spider]

Minority view, but if if it gives you peace go for it.

 

[Long Time Spider Fan]

Minority view, but if if it gives you peace go for it.

And if Donald Trump and Elon Musk give you peace, go for it. Good Luck!

 

[Section 204and5]

Each of you have a terrible case of TDS.

1. Right on cue, but frankly I expected the accusation to come much earlier. You must have been busy.
2. There is nothing deranged about looking at the damage Trump has done and is doing to the country and being extremely concerned. Like I said in an earlier post, to me he is easily one of the five worst human beings on the planet.

 

[KE Spider]

Long Time, respect your views, but sad truth is Biden's policies were a disaster, domestic and foreign. Election told you that. Section 204, with respect, you are off the deep end.

Not a Trump champion. Did not vote for him. You good folks on the Left need to come to your senses. Totally adrift now. Fringe folks screaming at cameras will not bring you back. Give us an alternative that does not involve DEI and fake females participating in women's sports and you may reenter serious discussion, otherwise you are marginalized among the electorate.

 

[Long Time Spider Fan]

Long Time, respect your views, but sad truth is Biden's policies were a disaster, domestic and foreign. Election told you that. Section 204, with respect, you are off the deep end.

Not a Trump champion. Did not vote for him. You good folks on the Left need to come to your senses. Totally adrift now. Fringe folks screaming at cameras will not bring you back. Give us an alternative that does not involve DEI and fake females participating in women's sports and you may reenter serious discussion, otherwise you are marginalized among the electorate.

The sad truth is that you think you are the final decider of whether Biden's policies were a "disaster", and you are not. The election told me that less than 50 percent of the voters cast their ballots for Trump. Granted, Trump won, but hardly was given a "mandate" when he got less than half the votes.

And apparently you, like most Republicans, are fixated on trans people. I don't support trans women competing in women's sports either, but what's with the obsession? With all the problems in this country, the few trans women who were trying to compete in women's sports should be at the bottom of concerns, but Republicans treat this like its one of the most important issues in the country.

And I would say the Republicans are totally adrift now. The majority, at least publicly, have backed Trump on his illegal activities and the pardoning of the J6 thugs, and the Senate has confirmed the most unqualified Cabinet in history.

 

[Section 204and5]

KE- with respect, you don't really know anything about me other than a few posts here so your "deep end" characterization is a bit uninformed.. While it's slightly off-topic in this thread, you and I have very different opinions/perspectives on Biden's performance and particularly about immigration. So let me tell you my experience.

For roughly the last two decades, I've had almost daily interactions with immigrants - mostly from Mexico, El Salvador and Honduras. I have zero clue about their immigration status. From a public policy perspective at the 10K foot level, I care about that and wish we had a system that works for everyone involved, but we don't. On a human level, I've had nothing but positive experiences. I've seen kids grow up, birthday celebrations, their kids assimilating - I could go on and on. I've seen them work very hard to realize the American dream and sadly I've seen some of them die.

Do they tax the systems we have in place like schools, hospitals, etc? Yes, but if they are in the country - regardless of their immigration status - I'd prefer they not be sick or uneducated. Can you cherry-pick some who are criminals and have done some horrible things? Absolutely as G is fond to point out. But factually, there is a much lower crime rate for immigrants than for native-born Americans.

So when I hear people like you say Biden's policies were a disaster, it just seems like a knee-jerk talking point with zero nuance. And that makes it difficult to have a reasonable discussion. I don't think you're off the deep end, but believe you're a lot closer to the end of the diving board than I will ever be.

 

[KE Spider]

Permitting 10 million (chose a number, no one knows) scarcely vetted folks to walk across the border, virtually all receiving some sort of public assistance at least initially when the country is drowning in debt (close as I could get to your diving board reference) is extremely poor public policy. Disastrous policy. Could move on to the Afghan debacle and a host of other ham handed policy decisions, but lets not.

Can tell your post came from the heart and appreciate your efforts to help the less fortunate. It is ok to disagree. Will try to be less disagreeable when doing so.

 

[Gallipoli]

I am hesitant to post this in the Ukraine thread... but since the left continues to say Biden did a great job, here are a few points.

"Why waste any time on Joe Biden? Who cares about him anymore? Well, you should, since the nation will be cleaning up Biden’s messes for years to come.

And one of the biggest was his campaign to usher as many illegal immigrants as possible into the country while lying to the American people about what was going on....

At his first press conference in March 2021 – after claiming that nothing had changed at the border (despite repealing every Trump executive order securing the border on day one) – he said the surge of illegals then underway “happens every single solitary year. There is a significant increase in the number of people coming to the border in the winter months of January, February, March. It happens every year … happens all the time.”

Well, now we know that was a lie.... illegal border crossings were low under Donald Trump, exploded under Biden, and now are miraculously back down to the levels of the first Trump term....

Throughout Biden’s administration, he claimed border security was a top priority. He named his vice president as border “czar.”

Against all evidence, his Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas repeatedly lied – often under oath – saying that the border was secure.

Biden later claimed his hands were tied by Republicans who refused to pass a phony border security bill... It was all lies.

Biden is thankfully gone. But he still needs to answer for his crimes."

Biden’s Lies About The Border Are Now Plain For All To See

Facts are stubborn things.

issuesinsights.com

 

[Wood Hall]

A clear case of Biden Derangement Syndrome.

"Crimes." JFC.

 

[Eight Legger]

It's fine to hate Biden and his policies, but when I hear people explain that that's why they voted for Trump, all I hear in my head is something like this:

"This guy over here murdered my cousin, beat my dog and stole my car. But that guy over there committed insurance fraud a few times, so I could never vote for him! I'm voting for the first guy."

 

[Gallipoli]

History shows that Russia cannot sustain a long fight. They withdrew from Afghanistan with their tails between their legs. They lost 58,000 men and the war lasted just over 9 years and ended in 1989. The Soviet Union disintegrated. The same will happen with Russia. They will beg for help from their friends, including China who will increasingly be reticent to help them. At some point, Putin will kick off and Russia will tear itself apart.

It appears to me that Trump is bailing Russia out.

 

[KE Spider]

They withdrew from Afghanistan with their tails between their legs.

We did too under Biden. No?

 

[Wood Hall]

We did too under Biden. No?

You'd rather we stay, risking lives in a war we knew was unwinnable? It was dumb in 1966 in Vietnam, it was dumb in Iraq and it was even dumber in Afghanistan, since we had the Vietnam and Iraq experiences to guide us. Mission creep at its worst.

Please tell me, what was a superior, viable alternative to complete and total withdrawal? Keeping 2500 soldiers in some airbase so we could repeat Little Big Horn or Dien Ben Phu?

 

[Gallipoli]

Trump created foolish expectations saying he could end the war in a day.

.He is discovering that Putin cannot be so easily negotiated with.

Russian President Vladimir Putin and senior Russian officials continue to reject US negotiating terms and demand that Ukraine surrender territory that Russia does not occupy.

Russian President Vladimir Putin's determination to manipulate US President Donald Trump and divide the West

The Kremlin is reportedly continuing to push the United States to accept economic benefits that are unrelated to the war in Ukraine in return for Ukrainian and Western concessions that are related to the war.

Putin wants Ukraine. He thinks he can manipulate Trump to get it.

Institute for the Study of War

Russian President Vladimir Putin and senior Russian officials continue to reject US negotiating terms and demand that Ukraine surrender territory that Russia does not occupy. Putin stated in his February 27 address to the Federal Security Service (FSB)

www.understandingwar.org

 

[urfan1]

Putin owns Trum and plays him like the puppet he is.

 

[Gallipoli]

Putin owns Trum and plays him like the puppet he is.

Once the dust clears, we will see. I suspect that the majority of the Republican US Senators, who see the danger of Russia, are communicating directly with Trump about the importance of supporting Ukraine. I also suspect that they are using their support for Trump's domestic legislation to get Trump to do the right thing with Ukraine.

Trump has at least gotten the UK and France to talk about placing troops in Ukraine, as peace keepers.

 

[Gallipoli]

MSNBC presidential historian Jon Meacham poses the following question:

"How did the party of the Reagan Republican Cold War tear down this wall, George H.W. Bush, this aggression will not stand, this ethos of protecting the interests of democracies against autocracies. When did that just suddenly change? Not when, but why? Why did that suddenly change?"

The answer is that the last American foreign policy interventions- Iraq and Afghanistan- were mercilessly undermined by Democrats- solely for political gain. Many on the right saw the limits of American power and questioned the need to intervene, especially when Democrats politicized foreign policy. The democrats literally tore the country apart.

Pete Hegseth was very critical of our effort in Afghanistan. He repeatedly said the government was corrupt.

So when Biden needed support for a muscular foreign policy, some Republicans were against it.