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I'm sure some people's heads will spin on here but this bill was originally introduced by Bernie Sanders a few years back. Looks like it's backed by Tulsi Gabbard to so bipartisan. Im curiously watching from afar to see what happens to this bill. Not holding my breath on it passing but props to congressman Garrett for using a common sense approach on this.
 
I'm sure some people's heads will spin on here but this bill was originally introduced by Bernie Sanders a few years back. Looks like it's backed by Tulsi Gabbard to so bipartisan. Im curiously watching from afar to see what happens to this bill. Not holding my breath on it passing but props to congressman Garrett for using a common sense approach on this.

Probably correct assumption in that it will likely be opposed by Sessions.
One step forward, two steps back.

Bold move by TAG anyway who has seen things up close and personal as a former prosecutor who dealt with thousands of marijuana cases during his tenure.
 
I'm opposed to this type of legislation because I think it sends the wrong message, but I realize I'm probably in the minority there these days. I also appreciate TAG's willingness to engage on an issue that typically is a partisan one.
 
I'm opposed to this type of legislation because I think it sends the wrong message, but I realize I'm probably in the minority there these days. I also appreciate TAG's willingness to engage on an issue that typically is a partisan one.

Personally, I am not a user, though I have experimented with the drug, and a few others, but I have many friends who use marijuana on an occasional social basis. I believe that it should be decriminalized or, preferably, legalized for the following reasons:

1.When you look at the drug as an alternative to alcohol, there is no doubt that it is the better choice (assuming you ingest it in edible or drinkable form). The New York Times in an article approximately two or three years ago cited a study over a 12-18 month period revealing that about 252,000 people died during that period from alcohol use not including those who died from car accidents. During the same period, they could not cite even one example of a person dying from the use of marijuana.

2. Prosecutors and law enforcement officers for the most part do not want the use of marijuana to continue to be a crime. I suspect that judges feel the same. They realize that it is a losing battle. They realize that most teens use it at one time or another and they think it unfair to mar their record and place a stigma in the way of future employment because of an unwise choice as a teen or very young adult. Law enforcement wants to devote their time to more important issues. This is one of the main reasons that TAG is behind it though reason #3, in part, is also an important justification to him.

3. We need to accept that we will never bar the use of marijuana in this country. We have been trying for 50 plus years with great cost and without any success. To the contrary, it is more available today than it has ever been. Yet, we spend over 10 billion dollars per year in resources to just to keep it off the street and penalize those who use it through the legal system. If we were to legalize its use, (which TAG has not at this point suggested) we would not only prevent countries from ceaseless attempts of smuggling it into this country (the cost of prevention was not included in the 10 billion dollar figure I referenced) because we could produce it here cheaper and of a higher quality. With legalization, we could grow it here, tax it as we do alcohol, regulate its use and distribution, make certain if conforms to certain standards, and create numerous jobs for growers and dispensers, thereby not only eliminating most of the 10 billion dollar expense in enforcing laws against it but also creating thousands of new jobs, and a multi-million dollar source of revenue for each state. The net financial benefit would be remarkable.

4. Many drugs were legal at the beginning of the last century. In fact, cocaine was an ingredient in Coca Cola. In the 1930s and through the 1950s there was a huge effort to ban what were then perceived as addictive drug substances, much like the prohibition effort of the 1920s in relation to alcohol. Pretty much any drug which provided an altered state of awareness, a buzz, was considered addictive and therefore bad. Marijuana got lumped into the banned substances during this war on drugs. It is pretty much recognized now that it shouldn't have been. Though some still argue that it is a gateway drug, most recognize that it is not any more a gateway drug than alcohol and that it is much less addictive, if, indeed, it is addictive at all. However, the process of removing marijuana from the scheduled drug classification to which it had been labeled has continued. In large part, the initial reason was that we had treaties or pacts with many other countries in which we included marijuana with drugs such as opium and through which we agreed to ban their production or use. The treaties and pacts were entered into largely to deter those countries who grew poppy or other plants that produced opioids and other heavy drugs in an effort to cut down on the production of truly harmful drugs. However, those treaties and pacts have over time been globally watered down and relaxed, and they no longer present a sufficient reason for the ban of marijuana as they once did.

I have an uncle (actually, an uncle-in-law) who attended UR during the late 1960s, early 1970s. He swears that when he was in school as an undergraduate that a student would be expelled for having alcohol on campus (in their dorm), yet it was perfectly fine to have amphetamines in one's possession. He says that "black beauties" ( an amphetamine widely used by tractor trailer truck drivers in that era) were often shipped back from the MCV pharmacy school by former UR students, fraternity brothers in many cases, to students still at UR during exam times. (Apparently, at that time a student had to attend a regular college for two years before they could be admitted as a pharmacy student at MCV so a bunch of UR students only went to UR for 2 years). It was a common practice. No problem.
But things change. Now alcohol, provided you are 21, is accepted. However, possession of amphetamines is a serious felony.

My uncle also says that during this time, or perhaps a few years later, a W & L student was kicked out of school and given twenty years in prison for possession of about an ounce of marijuana. I do not know his name even though the matter was a big deal and made it rounds through the newspapers. After serving a year or two, the student was pardoned by the governor. He ended up obtaining his degree at W&L and then attended UR Law School, He finished first or second in his class. He later became a Federal Judge in the Virgin Islands. He may still be. While I cannot personally verify either of the stories, I know that they are true because my uncle is a very successful man and a man of extremely high integrity. He is not a proponent of legalizing marijuana and did not share these stories to bolster any argument.

I know many on this board do not agree and I respect their position. I just wanted to list what I consider the legitimate reasons for the legalization of marijuana which in my opinion far outweigh the objections.
 
Those are all good points, but I guess I just object morally to the idea that "Well, since we can't stop people from using it, let's just make it legal." Would we do the same thing if murders got out of control? "We can't stop people from killing each other, so let's just stop trying and make murder legal." I know those are different situations, of course, but I feel like the underlying principles are the same.

Same thing with parents who figure, "Well, my kids are going to drink ANYWAY, so I'd rather give them alcohol in my home when they're 16." That's a bad idea, IMO, and it often has bad consequences.

I think legalizing marijuana was an is a terrible idea for the states that have done it. And I do believe that it still serves as a gateway drug for a lot of people, just as tobacco and alcohol do in their own ways.

My general philosophy is that we need to be firm on right and wrong as a society at a governmental level, or else society starts to break down.
 
Those are all good points, but I guess I just object morally to the idea that "Well, since we can't stop people from using it, let's just make it legal." Would we do the same thing if murders got out of control? "We can't stop people from killing each other, so let's just stop trying and make murder legal." I know those are different situations, of course, but I feel like the underlying principles are the same.

Same thing with parents who figure, "Well, my kids are going to drink ANYWAY, so I'd rather give them alcohol in my home when they're 16." That's a bad idea, IMO, and it often has bad consequences.

I think legalizing marijuana was an is a terrible idea for the states that have done it. And I do believe that it still serves as a gateway drug for a lot of people, just as tobacco and alcohol do in their own ways.

My general philosophy is that we need to be firm on right and wrong as a society at a governmental level, or else society starts to break down.

I'm okay with that line of argument if you feel that alcohol, cigarettes, fast food etc should also be illegal across the board or left up to the states. If not then there is a major flaw in your argument as you are picking and choosing. I don't subscribe to the belief MJ should be illegal. I don't believe you can enforce morality even if it is well intended. And at that point whose morals are you violating?

Are you really comparing the criminality of murder to the criminality of possessing a plant that's been on this planet since the beginning of time? Murder most will agree is wrong, over 60% of americans want MJ legal according to gallup. Congressman Garret is merely suggesting to decriminalize small amounts of it.

We tried criminalizing alcohol once in this country and how did that work out? Thats what gave you Capone or in todays instance, El Chapo. Most would agree prohibition was a massive failure but here we are still doing it today just with something else. (On a side note the house I grew up in as a kid had a speak easy in it since it was built in the 20s). Colorado legalized and the only problem they have right now is what to do with the extra tax dollars. You also cripple gangs because you are cutting into their profit margin.

Eight, I consider you are more willing to look at facts then most here on the board in terms of viewing dissenting opinion. Im on a phone so cant provide links but I strongly encourage you to look up Americas history on the prohibition of Cannabis. Just google Harry Anslinger if you do anything. There is a lot of racism involved with why this drug was criminilized. Take a look at what Portugal has done ending their war on drugs over the last decade. Its been mostly positive.
 
All fair points, Ferrum. And I know it gets tricky to differentiate between what is all bad, occasionally bad, somewhat bad, etc. If it were up to me, cigarettes and dip would be illegal, for example. They cause cancer and do nothing positive at all. You don't have to use them for long before you start doing real damage to yourself.

Soft drinks and similar foods and drinks, including alcohol, would fall into a different classification for me. You can drink a soda without damaging your body. You can drink a beer without becoming an alcoholic or damaging your liver. I realize the same types of arguments probably could be made for marijuana, and maybe my view is "clouded" by the fact that marijuana has been illegal during my lifetime and these other things haven't been. I just view marijuana as being worse than soda and alcohol, but not as bad as cocaine or heroin.

If we were starting from square one today, everything was legal and we were trying to decide what to make illegal, maybe I'd agree that marijuana should remain legal.

My opinion on most of this is formed largely from the basis of having a close family member who is a scientific expert in this field (drugs of abuse, addiction, etc.) and having been exposed to his knowledge over the years.
 
All fair points, Ferrum. And I know it gets tricky to differentiate between what is all bad, occasionally bad, somewhat bad, etc. If it were up to me, cigarettes and dip would be illegal, for example. They cause cancer and do nothing positive at all. You don't have to use them for long before you start doing real damage to yourself.

Soft drinks and similar foods and drinks, including alcohol, would fall into a different classification for me. You can drink a soda without damaging your body. You can drink a beer without becoming an alcoholic or damaging your liver. I realize the same types of arguments probably could be made for marijuana, and maybe my view is "clouded" by the fact that marijuana has been illegal during my lifetime and these other things haven't been. I just view marijuana as being worse than soda and alcohol, but not as bad as cocaine or heroin.

If we were starting from square one today, everything was legal and we were trying to decide what to make illegal, maybe I'd agree that marijuana should remain legal.

My opinion on most of this is formed largely from the basis of having a close family member who is a scientific expert in this field (drugs of abuse, addiction, etc.) and having been exposed to his knowledge over the years.

The thing is, the federal govt actually considers it more dangerous then some of the drugs you mention which is part of the problem. Its a schedule I drug, IIRC this bill would at least reschedule it to where its not considered as dangerous.

Your suggesting that alcohol/soda is okay in moderation it seems? Why cant the same consideration be given to MJ? One joint doesn't give you lung cancer or make you addicted to crack. How many times do you read in the paper someone smoked a joint and beat their wife? The same can not be said for alcohol.

Also the social costs of disenfranchising a large part of society that are otherwise, law abiding citizens. The cost of enforcing these laws in addition to housing offenders cost taxpayers $$. Add that to the tax revenue your talking about having more budget relief as a result. Cops can also focus on crimes like murder and stuff more.

Recently read an article about in Colorado teen useage for MJ has dropped since it was legalized. There have been hiccups I imagine as nothing is perfect. Also, not sure if you know the relationship, but Mason Tvert a UR grad was the leader of the legalization movement in Colorado. Think UR barred him from speaking or basically refuses to acknowledge his existence some combination of that. The sky is not falling in Colorado and other states are beginning to see the light.
 
I guess I also would equate it to the idea of trying to legalize cigarettes if they were illegal now. From a public health standpoint, that would be a terrible idea. Ingesting smoke of any kind is a bad idea, even though marijuana smoke seems to be slightly less toxic. I just think it's sort of going backwards to encourage the use of any recreational drugs. But I understand the social and legal arguments in favor of that, even though I disagree.
 
We as a nation have squandered a fortune trying to eradicate a substance that is largely benign. Through most of our national history, it was legal and although usage was not widespread, no one gave it a thought.

It is High time it be decriminalized.
 
All fair points, Ferrum. And I know it gets tricky to differentiate between what is all bad, occasionally bad, somewhat bad, etc. If it were up to me, cigarettes and dip would be illegal, for example. They cause cancer and do nothing positive at all. You don't have to use them for long before you start doing real damage to yourself.
Soft drinks and similar foods and drinks, including alcohol, would fall into a different classification for me. You can drink a soda without damaging your body. You can drink a beer without becoming an alcoholic or damaging your liver. I realize the same types of arguments probably could be made for marijuana, and maybe my view is "clouded" by the fact that marijuana has been illegal during my lifetime and these other things haven't been. I just view marijuana as being worse than soda and alcohol, but not as bad as cocaine or heroin.
If we were starting from square one today, everything was legal and we were trying to decide what to make illegal, maybe I'd agree that marijuana should remain legal.
My opinion on most of this is formed largely from the basis of having a close family member who is a scientific expert in this field (drugs of abuse, addiction, etc.) and having been exposed to his knowledge over the years.

I have no doubt that your family member has vastly more knowledge than I, but I have looked into the subject and read quite a bit about its several aspects. I have never seen any report where marijuana is considered more addictive than alcohol. I would further point out that there is a wide divergence among those in the medical/science field as to its legalization (mostly as to social and recreational use), and many (understandably) often intentionally, because of professional reasons, fail or refuse to take into account the non-medical aspects which I and many others consider very relevant and extremely important. Several well known, prominent medical expects, Sanjay Gupta and Raphael Mechoulam, to name two, were the major pioneering proponents for its use for medical purposes, and most others medical/scientific types, including your family member, would probably agree that for that limited purpose it certainly needs to be reclassified from a scheduled drug, which is not to say it should not be regulated. Yet while its legalization for medicinal purposes seems to a no-brainer, I still maintain that its use for social and recreational purposes is valid for the reasons I stated above and those advanced by Ferrum and KE.

A Johns Hopkins doctor shared his opinion on full legalization in Gazette of Johns Hopkins Magazine and noted many of the basic, now-accepted facts associated with the drug.
I am sure from a purely medical/scientific perspective, fast-food, soft drinks, as Ferrum Spider has pointed out would be on the list of medical/scientific researchers as foods to ban because of the pandemic health problems they create, despite the fact that they are not generally thought of as leading to addiction. But addiction is relative and not applicable to all, and it is measured in degrees and weighed against its benefits. A perfect example of this is coffee. As silly as it may sound but to put addiction into a more proper medical perspective, coffee is classified as addictive and now listed as a "substance abuse disorder" in DSM-V, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published by the American Psychiatric Association.

I do not intend to dismiss the arguable value of the position of your family member (or the basis for yours), but rather to simply point out why a broader view may serve to make a more socially equitable, financially beneficial, and enlightened decision. I commend you on the logic and manner in which you have presented your position, I simply disagree.
 
Oregon is one state where the use and sale of marijuana is legal. Approved by the voters, tightly regulated by the state.

I am not a user, but I find it highly hypocritical that a political party that spouts off about state's rights and the overreach of the Federal government whenever it's convenient would even attempt to override the clearly-stated will of the voters in Oregon, Washington, Colorado and the other states that have decriminalized pot.

Keep your nose out of our business.
 
Oregon is one state where the use and sale of marijuana is legal. Approved by the voters, tightly regulated by the state.

I am not a user, but I find it highly hypocritical that a political party that spouts off about state's rights and the overreach of the Federal government whenever it's convenient would even attempt to override the clearly-stated will of the voters in Oregon, Washington, Colorado and the other states that have decriminalized pot.

Keep your nose out of our business.
I agree with this. Either states have certain rights or they don't. If they don't, fine, but if they are allowed to put legal questions like this one to a vote of their citizens, then that law should be bulletproof in those places.
 
I agree with this. Either states have certain rights or they don't. If they don't, fine, but if they are allowed to put legal questions like this one to a vote of their citizens, then that law should be bulletproof in those places.
But there is the issue of the supremacy of Federal law. Pot is not legal at the Federal level so by settled law it cannot be at the the state level, if the Feds choose to enforce it. Same with sanctuary cities. The issue of states nullifying Federal laws that they disagree with was settled in the 1860s.

That said, I believe we would be better served if most governmental decisions were made as close to the citizens as possible - local and state. We have a document that sets forth their relative roles (fed v state). We would be wise to follow it more closely.
 
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But there is the issue of the supremacy of Federal law. Pot is not legal at the Federal level so by settled law it cannot be at the the state level, if the Feds choose to enforce it. Same with sanctuary cities. The issue of states nullifying Federal laws that they disagree with was settled in the 1860s.
That said, I believe we would be better served if most governmental decisions were made as close to the citizens as possible - local and state. We have a document that sets forth their relative roles (fed v state). We would be wise to follow it more closely.

How can the decision be made in good conscience at the state level as long as it remains a crime under federal law? Though some states have done so, they have done so at the peril of their citizens and small businesses. The DEA and other federal agencies, at the behest of the higher ups, have chosen to ignore enforcement of the law in the states who have legalized marijuana, but that could change at any time, especially with Sessions as AG.

Until the federal government reschedules the drug, many states are not willing to pass laws that violate federal law, even if the law has not been enforced and even if they believe that it is their "role" to make that decision. If one believes that a decision of this nature should be made at the state level, as is the case with alcohol, it is hard to imagine that one would not also believe that the federal law should not make it a crime to legalize marijuana, whether for medicinal purposes or otherwise, and not therefore reschedule the drug so that the states who have reservations could proceed to make their decisions without a possible violation of federal law hanging over their heads.
 
if you viewed any of the Sessions questioning, he was adamant to the other senators vetting him, if you don't like a law, change it, will not be my job, my job will be to enforce our laws and he is quite right. of course on the state level, you have california which places propositions on the ballot quite frequently and if one passes, you still have their courts telling citizens there that they cannot have that and striking down what the people actually want and desire. like most things, a very complex issue with many points of view and it will be a fluid deal for some time and has been, for some time. see the points of view expressed above and agree with most of them and glad am not involved with actually doing something about it.
 
After 30 years as a police officer (now retired), I'm in favor of legalizing. I would rather a controlled substance be controlled by a legal entity (government or highly regulated private businesses) than illegal entities (ie criminals)
 
How can the decision be made in good conscience at the state level as long as it remains a crime under federal law?

Because it's the right thing to do? Many states gave women the right to vote in state elections long before the 19th amendment made it legal on the Federal level. States are often far ahead of the Feds on progressive social legislation because the system of government is much less cumbersome.
 
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How can the decision be made in good conscience at the state level as long as it remains a crime under federal law?

Because it's the right thing to do? Many states gave women the right to vote in state elections long before the 19th amendment made it legal on the Federal level. States are often far ahead of the Feds on progressive social legislation because the system of government is much less cumbersome.
Merely suggesting that it is a hindrance and in some cases, an excuse, to not move forward and do the right thing.
 
How can the decision be made in good conscience at the state level as long as it remains a crime under federal law?

Because it's the right thing to do? Many states gave women the right to vote in state elections long before the 19th amendment made it legal on the Federal level. States are often far ahead of the Feds on progressive social legislation because the system of government is much less cumbersome.
It is NOT the states right to do so whether one party or the other believes it Right or Not. Federal law trumps (no pun intended) state law in most instances. The states rights argument was answered in the 1860s and with the passage of the 17th Amendment.

Do they not teach civics at UR anymore?
 
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It is NOT the states right to do so whether one party or the other believes it Right or Not. Federal law trumps (no pun intended) state law in most instances. The states rights argument was answered in the 1860s and with the passage of the 17th Amendment.
Do they not teach civics at UR anymore?

No one has said or suggested that states rights override federal law. I do not know where you come up with that assumption. All that has been stated in the posts above are various opinions regarding the need to change federal law, or not, and the fact that some states have taken it upon themselves to pass laws which conflict with existing federal law, despite the possible consequences, and that other states might not do so or might not have done so because of the chilling effect of existing federal, despite its desuetude, a principle often at work regardless of the law or which jurisdiction made it.

Assuming you are referring to the 14th Amendment, adopted in 1868, you may need to reread it. It does not set forth any hierarchy of law supremacy relative to the states vis a vis the federal government. That is already a given (See Article VI, U.S. Constitution). It does not deal with "state law(s)," except to prohibit them to the extent that they might abridge the protection ("privileges or immunities") of individuals to which they would otherwise be entitled by virtue of federal law under the principles of due process and equal protection.

The 17th Amendment, adopted in 1913, deals with the number and terms of senators and the filling of their vacancies, if necessary, by state electors and State Legislatures, and has nothing to do with the supremacy of any law. However, given that the Amendments are generally listed numerically in Roman letters, your error is easily understandable.

However, I might add that had you had been paying closer attention in your high school civics class, you likely would have picked up on that. BTW, civics is called "political science" once you get to college.
 
I know. TLDR (too long, didn't read) is the popular acronym, but I'm not easily deterred or inclined to change my style, and I never take it personally.

As to "length not quality," you need to read a book or two by James A. Michener. His quality is not apparent on the surface, and some never see it, but he presents a world of facts and information.
 
Don't change your style. As I said I enjoy it. Just saying you could make your points a little more concisely. Michener? Really contemporary.
 
Don't change your style. As I said I enjoy it. Just saying you could make your points a little more concisely. Michener? Really contemporary.

Duly noted and appreciated. I work on this daily. With the help of an editor in my real job, I have more success. Succinctness is the area in which many of my colleagues also suggest my writing could use improvement. Such criticism goes back a while to my days in graduate school.

Today I'm looking to Jeff Spicoli's approach to things as a possible model to fix this issue --
[after Spicoli wrecks Jefferson's car]
"Jefferson's Brother: My brother's gonna kill us! He's gonna kill us! He's gonna kill you and he's gonna kill me, he's gonna kill us!
Jeff Spicoli: Hey man, just be glad I had fast reflexes!
Jefferson's Brother: My brother's gonna shit!
Jeff Spicoli: Make up your mind, dude, is he gonna shit or is he gonna kill us?
Jefferson's Brother: First he's gonna shit, then he's gonna kill us!
Jeff Spicoli: Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it."
Fast Times at Ridgemont High
, (1982).
If you are looking, Mr. Moderator, the movie was rated "G."
 
little i, have read most of michener, has no idea how to start or end his story but the middle is gold.
 
No one has said or suggested that states rights override federal law. I do not know where you come up with that assumption. All that has been stated in the posts above are various opinions regarding the need to change federal law, or not, and the fact that some states have taken it upon themselves to pass laws which conflict with existing federal law, despite the possible consequences, and that other states might not do so or might not have done so because of the chilling effect of existing federal, despite its desuetude, a principle often at work regardless of the law or which jurisdiction made it.

Assuming you are referring to the 14th Amendment, adopted in 1868, you may need to reread it. It does not set forth any hierarchy of law supremacy relative to the states vis a vis the federal government. That is already a given (See Article VI, U.S. Constitution). It does not deal with "state law(s)," except to prohibit them to the extent that they might abridge the protection ("privileges or immunities") of individuals to which they would otherwise be entitled by virtue of federal law under the principles of due process and equal protection.

The 17th Amendment, adopted in 1913, deals with the number and terms of senators and the filling of their vacancies, if necessary, by state electors and State Legislatures, and has nothing to do with the supremacy of any law. However, given that the Amendments are generally listed numerically in Roman letters, your error is easily understandable.

However, I might add that had you had been paying closer attention in your high school civics class, you likely would have picked up on that. BTW, civics is called "political science" once you get to college.
 
iSpider, you miss my point regarding the 17th Amendment. It changed the election of Senators from state assemblies to popular election. It fundamentally changed the relative balance between state and federal powers. The original intent was the House would directly represent the interests of the citizens and the Senate would represent the interests of the states, and indirectly the citizens since the state legislators were popularly elected. The 13 Original Colonies, followed by statehood status, created the federal government not vice versa.... so how did we end up here?

In many of my posts, I am just sharing facts that I know (or believe I know ;)) not necessarily endorsing a point of view. Yes, I believe some here have suggested that state law re: pot should trump federal law and I have suggested that contradicts settled law.

Enjoy your posts...sometimes long, but I read every word.
 
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Duly noted and appreciated. I work on this daily. With the help of an editor in my real job, I have more success. Succinctness is the area in which many of my colleagues also suggest my writing could use improvement. Such criticism goes back a while to my days in graduate school.

Today I'm looking to Jeff Spicoli's approach to things as a possible model to fix this issue --
[after Spicoli wrecks Jefferson's car]
"Jefferson's Brother: My brother's gonna kill us! He's gonna kill us! He's gonna kill you and he's gonna kill me, he's gonna kill us!
Jeff Spicoli: Hey man, just be glad I had fast reflexes!
Jefferson's Brother: My brother's gonna shit!
Jeff Spicoli: Make up your mind, dude, is he gonna shit or is he gonna kill us?
Jefferson's Brother: First he's gonna shit, then he's gonna kill us!
Jeff Spicoli: Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it."

Fast Times at Ridgemont High, (1982).
If you are looking, Mr. Moderator, the movie was rated "G
."

And when was that?
http://www.movieposter.com/poster/mpw-18028/fast_times_at_ridgemont_high.html
 
After 30 years as a police officer (now retired), I'm in favor of legalizing. I would rather a controlled substance be controlled by a legal entity (government or highly regulated private businesses) than illegal entities (ie criminals)

I think that given the lack of our country to control the smuggling and distribution of marijuana after decades of failed efforts despite the expenditure (waste) of billions of dollars, leaving access to the drug to the exclusive control of criminals, the the foregoing statement by SpiderRick is a totally legitimate and persuasive reason, even if you disregard all others, for the legalization and governmental regulation of marijuana across this country. And the foregoing statement is made by the one poster on this board with almost assuredly the most experience in dealing with the issue on a regular basis for the last 30 years seeing all sides of the conversation.

SpiderRick's logic alone should persuade everyone of the need for legalization and regulation. Throw in all the other reasons, social, moral, and economic, which have been discussed, and considering the recently proposed legislation by another one of our own, Tom Garrett (with bipartisan support), also a former member of law enforcement, a conservative Republican, and a former prosecutor who along with SpiderRick, though for not as long a period of time, also dealt with the issue on a regular basis, it seems to me an almost an irrefutable argument for legalization and regulation.

If I were a lawyer defending the proposition of legalization and regulation of marijuana, I would now rest my case.

Thank you for advancing an argument which I had not considered. I suspect that you are not alone in taking such a position among those who work in law enforcement. I also suspect that such is the position of a large number of the members of the judiciary, a few of whom have made that known to my wife and a few of our friends.
 
there remains a stigma, rightly or wrongly, on any recreational drug, even mj. when i would go over to certain friends homes for dinner, etc., they always got the pot out and i always refused and they did not like that, though the invitations kept coming. at some point, they got out the coke and that kind of ended the relationship, still friends but just not into that. have close friends who are addicts and just hopeless, both alcohol and drugs, mainly cocaine. like some above, feel that pot is a gateway drug, at least it was for my buds, some of whom have been to rehab numerous times. as a fiscal conservative, realize that we are spending tons on policing mj, money that could be spent much more wisely on other criminal activities. the prob is we waste tons of money on lots of areas which are worthless, or at least do not solve the problem it is meant to solve. the real bad dudes, correct me Ofc Rick if i am wrong, are the cocaine and meth guys, mj and heroine people are too goofy to shoot people or harm anyone. not sure if you legalize or whatever, it sends a good message but that is just one part of this very complex situation.
 
Experience drives perception. Spinner, my experience has been different. Know many skilled professionals who have smoked pot for decades and maintain a high performance level. Did they abuse it? No, but anything one abuses is bad by definition.
 
some of my pothead buds are doing OK as well, just as some of my buds who drink a lot are.
 
some of my pothead buds are doing OK as well, just as some of my buds who drink a lot are.
So why should we care? It is their business. It is not hurting you or me. Don't agree with the libertarian view on all issues, but I do on this one.
 
well KE, when it is a family member or the wife of a bud comes to your house crying, it becomes your problem. to think that this is only "their" issue is just plain wrong, it impacts plenty of people besides the ones using
 
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some of my pothead buds are doing OK as well, just as some of my buds who drink a lot are.
QUOTE="WebSpinner, post: 199346, member: 80"]well KE, when it is a family member or the wife of a bud comes to your house crying, it becomes your problem. to think that this is only "their" issue is just plain wrong, it impacts plenty of people besides the ones using[/QUOTE]
From one of my previous posts, "Anything one abuses is bad by definition." There is a sharp divide between "use" and "abuse". But I hear your point, have had criers at my door as well. Heartrending. Don't believe that negates what I was saying.
 
am more libertarian than anything else but i just have a very difficult time with this issue. a lot of good reasons to legalize and a lot for not doing so. kind of ironic, we are a culture which is attempting to get rid of smoking on one hand and legalizing another form on the other, though mj can be used in various forms. my buds who are doing OK, still probably have numerous issues which i do not see and would not wish addiction on my worst enemy, terrible, no matter in what form it exists, gambling, drinking, hoarding, drugs and the list goes on and on
 
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