Slow week...AD Improvements?
- Thread starter Spiders05
- Start date
There are some on the board that eschew the notion that college sports is big business while others recognize that it is but don't want it to be. Division I basketball is big business. Why wouldn't you want to apply best business principles to your business operation? If our niche in the market place is the A10, why not own it? I dont think those that are asking for accountability and the resources to compete at a high level are asking to compete head to head with Duke, Kansas and Kentucky. Geez, let beat Fordam, Saint Louis and Dayton, win the A10 and see what happens in the Dance. If we don't win the A10 we should certainly be striving to be consistently good enough to find our way in as an at large. I've said this before, I could care less if Mooney says this out loud. I want his boss to say it out loud and maybe his boss too. Everything else at Richmond is attempted to be done in a first class manner, they need to add athletics to the list. And before I get jumped about selling our souls to the devil and stepping over red lines, I for one don't believe you have to do that to win the damn A10 championship.
1. Bring back the rowdy run.
2. Have more collaboration from HS pep bands (Varina and Steward we great) and Sticky Situation.
3. Have other campus sports teams throw items in the stands during break.
4. More basketball and brews, preferably every weekend home game.
2. Have more collaboration from HS pep bands (Varina and Steward we great) and Sticky Situation.
3. Have other campus sports teams throw items in the stands during break.
4. More basketball and brews, preferably every weekend home game.
Bring back the extra Billy's catering too! Good. Barbecue and brews before games is an awesome thing!
Bring back the rowdy run.
you mean the thing they ripped off from W&M? They couldn't stop doing it fast enough.
I'm not opposed to goals. we have them. we keep it internal.
but it's clear why some here are so adamant about publicly stating those goals. they want "accountability", or more like consequences. they just want the guy fired for cause. but there are a lot of variables in sports. at the end of each season, the AD should look at everything and decide if the coach is the right guy, if the program is in good shape, and are we heading in the right direction. it's not simply how many games did we win and did we dance.
Huesman sounds great to me. he gets praise here for stating his National Championship goal. awesome. that plays well at the pep rally. so now what? he just went 6-5. he can scream "that's on me!" and some here will cheer "YES! ACCOUNTABILITY!". but now what? what if he goes 6-5 again next year and says "that's on me ... I've got to do a better job". are you guys still cheering accountability? and for how long? publicly stating goals and taking the blame for not reaching them means less to me than it seems to some of you.
Damn, you must be a really irresponsible parent if you have managed to lose 4 kids at the Robins Center. I'm surprised Lost & Found hasn't been more proactive in helping you locate them. Hope you eventually find them.
"What if" questions are very fluid - we could be National Champions in football and Huesman could be giving credit to the team.....................
The good news is he will be able to retire much sooner without paying all those tuitions.
So i expect we have goals as well, although you state empirically that you know they have them. Transparency in this regard may be overrated. Citing the Huesman example, stating the goal and meeting the goal are different, and if there's no consequence to not meeting them, it's clearly of dubious value.
I'd certainly be interested to know what those internal goals are, I guess that's what folks are clamoring for. I expect the possibilities are that A) the bar is lower than what some fans expect, so CM is meeting the internal goals, B) we aren't meeting the goal but the Administration doesn't seem inclined to push the point or C) there aren't really any goals.
It's a bit obtuse to think that the only measurable goal is something like NCAA appearances, I expect CM is measured by a bunch of non-athletic factors like the progress rate. So maybe he's meeting more than anyone cares to acknowledge. But if that's the case, it might be worth re-evaluating transparency so he gets credit for the goals he is meeting.
I have to admit, I haven't been pressing that hard to find them. The house has been way quieter and I don't have to change as many diapers.
Yeah, I suspect when people on here say they want to hear goals from Mooney/Hardt what they really want to hear is what Mooney needs to do to get fired. If we made the NCAAs every other year nobody would care about stating goals or whatever. As far as I can tell, people didn't care about Mooney not stating goals until they got tired of him as a coach.
Bingo.
If Huesman's goal is a National Championship (or even competing for a National Championship) and he fails to make the quarterfinals next year, how many mulligans does he get?
If Mooney's goals are "improve during the season" and "Finish in the top 4 in the A10" he seems to be well on his way to doing that for a second straight season, and third in four years.
In the above scenario, Huesman's going to be on the hot seat before Mooney.
Now the latter goals may not be "good enough" for some around these parts, and I suppose if they're articulated, those folks can decide their level of support accordingly.
If Huesman's goal is a National Championship (or even competing for a National Championship) and he fails to make the quarterfinals next year, how many mulligans does he get?
If Mooney's goals are "improve during the season" and "Finish in the top 4 in the A10" he seems to be well on his way to doing that for a second straight season, and third in four years.
In the above scenario, Huesman's going to be on the hot seat before Mooney.
Now the latter goals may not be "good enough" for some around these parts, and I suppose if they're articulated, those folks can decide their level of support accordingly.
I thought the stated goal several years ago was for each sport to be able to compete for conference championships, and give the student athletes the opportunity to participate in post season play. At least that was professed as part of the reason to do away with soccer and track, so they would have move funds available for other sports to make them more competitive and allow them to complete for conference championships..
I wish for pierogee on a stick for concession food
What if he doesn't go 6 and 5 next year but wins, say, 8 or better? I think by putting it out there, he's motivated to perform or get judged harshly by his own words.
On a stick?
Anyway I nominate that we import them from Donna's. It may just be the Zywiec talking but they were pretty damn good.
https://billypenn.com/2017/02/28/pi...ces-to-get-the-polish-treat-in-port-richmond/
TBone explained things well above. I personally want to know what our goals are so that I have a basis for a) understanding how the university views athletics, b) so I can more adequately judge how our coaches and teams are performing and c) so I can decide how much time and money to invest in the programs I do currently.
If our goal for the basketball team is to "compete" for an A10 title, I don't have any idea what that means. It sounds like a way to hedge your bets – "We're trying!" – without having any real measurable outcome. We are one of 14 teams in the A10 that show up and play 18 conference games every year. We have yet to forfeit one. By that metric, we are "competing," so I guess we have always met our goal.
I'd like Hardt to rank our goals and priorities for the department overall and then for the coaches to do the same for their individual programs. If Hardt says that our top 6 goals are to bring in top student athletes, make sure no one gets in trouble, be good representatives in the community, achieve high GPAs, try hard and graduate on time, then I will know that we are not really giving our coaches much to work with and that we don't really care about winning.
If he says our goals are to run clean programs that regularly finish in the top 4 in the league, regularly reach the conference finals and make [Postseason Tournament Name] at least 50% of the time while graduating student athletes on time, then I'll know we are serious about our programs and our student athletes.
If our goal for the basketball team is to "compete" for an A10 title, I don't have any idea what that means. It sounds like a way to hedge your bets – "We're trying!" – without having any real measurable outcome. We are one of 14 teams in the A10 that show up and play 18 conference games every year. We have yet to forfeit one. By that metric, we are "competing," so I guess we have always met our goal.
I'd like Hardt to rank our goals and priorities for the department overall and then for the coaches to do the same for their individual programs. If Hardt says that our top 6 goals are to bring in top student athletes, make sure no one gets in trouble, be good representatives in the community, achieve high GPAs, try hard and graduate on time, then I will know that we are not really giving our coaches much to work with and that we don't really care about winning.
If he says our goals are to run clean programs that regularly finish in the top 4 in the league, regularly reach the conference finals and make [Postseason Tournament Name] at least 50% of the time while graduating student athletes on time, then I'll know we are serious about our programs and our student athletes.
I doubt he felt he had to put it out there to motivate himself.
I hope the guy wins championships and he may. he seems like a good coach and a good recruiter. but if he wins it all, I don't think it'll be because he stated that goal publicly. but we'll never know. I don't recall and you may, but was that a publicly stated goal the last time we won?
Eight, what you just posted confirms what I feel. that publicly released mission statements, whatever they may be, would have no impact on on the court or field. it would be for fans who just want to know so they can determine their level of commitment.
I never said that a mission statement would impact our success on the field or court. Of course it would be for fans! We deserve as much.
Every organization I give a dime to sends me an annual report detailing everything it achieved, showing its goals and mission statement for the following year, outlining plans and hopes, etc. That helps me determine if I want to continue supporting their missions or spend my money elsewhere. I wouldn't donate to an organization (or in this case support a sports program) if I had no idea what its goals and objectives were or how it was working to achieve them.
Some people would and do. I get that. To me, that doesn't mean that the organization should just stop doing this stuff, though. If UR Athletics never releases a mission statement and never outlines goals and expectations for its programs, some people will continue to show up and spend money and donate regardless. I get that. But that doesn't make it the right way to do business, IMO. I'd like to think we are better than that and we will do things the right way.
This might sum it up - just change questions to "What are the goals of our men's basketball program? What are we trying to achieve?"
http://sarcasmalley.com/pointof.wav
http://sarcasmalley.com/pointof.wav
I've complained about them until I'm blue in the face. I've come to realize that this is one of many frustrating things with the gameday experience that will never change, and the fanbase appears to not want to change it.
I don’t have a problem with sticky situation being there but it is annoying that they play the same songs over and over, year to year. On the idea of music, I also think it’s annoying when it goes from sticky situation playing, to music over the speakers, back to sticky situation, etc. I think it messes with the vibe of the arena. Obviously it’s not a major issue though.
Loved having a local HS band there recently. Definitely upped the energy in RC. Also really wish our cheerleaders would learn at least 1 new cheer and 1 new chant every year. And unless student section is even half filled, they should spread out around RC and lead crowd in chants throughout game. Know I'm probably banging my head against a wall here, but know they can do much better.
Every basketball game, I glance up at the 4 hospitality areas, 3 of them are almost always well attended, one is ALWAYS empty. The Spider Club terrace. WHY?
Why can't we just have the Spider Club terrace open all game, and not just for big donors, but ALL Spider Club members. I'm not asking for freebies, but have some food and beer and wine available for purchase. If you want to offer something for the big donors, you can still give them the food/beverage tickets. Let the members come and go as they please, I doubt anyone is going to hang out there all game anyway. It's also a good way to mingle with other Spider Club members while watching the game, instead of rushing around at halftime trying to find a buddy. Doesn't VCU have a setup like this???
Why can't we just have the Spider Club terrace open all game, and not just for big donors, but ALL Spider Club members. I'm not asking for freebies, but have some food and beer and wine available for purchase. If you want to offer something for the big donors, you can still give them the food/beverage tickets. Let the members come and go as they please, I doubt anyone is going to hang out there all game anyway. It's also a good way to mingle with other Spider Club members while watching the game, instead of rushing around at halftime trying to find a buddy. Doesn't VCU have a setup like this???
Rick. I agree on Spider Club area. I would vote for one hour pregame, 30 minutes at halftime, and one hour post game (that would give traffic time to clear also). As an additional idea they could have game stats printed as a handout and maybe a player guest or coach could stop by. I usually hang with my family and folks in the section for at least half hour post game and enjoy talking about the game.
I refuse to go to the terrace. The policy of paying $225 per person for a season pass to allow my grown son and daughter to go up to the terrace pisses me off. I pay a ton in donations and having six season tickets for football and basketball. I am supposed to pay more to come and hang out with my kids, while the school gives away tons of reduced price tickets every game, is just stupid to me. We actually want to come to the game so why do I have to subsidize people who don't. Now we hang out off campus and show up at the last minute.
excellent idea, do you think the NCAA will extend halftime to 30 minutes?
However long it takes for them to clean the monkey poop at center court. Should be good for one beer
It seems like the number of games for the lower level Spider Club members to be able to access the Terrace has gone down over the years since the RC opened. Its a whopping 6 games this year for Blue level (and only one a10 game which is the last game of the year).
Guess its an incentive to give more, but not really.
Guess its an incentive to give more, but not really.
Couple of things come to mind:
1. Upgrade cheering. We have decent cheerleaders, but their cheers are lame and they generally don't show up when school is out for the rest of the students. Suggest they hire a legitimate coach, require that they attend all games even when school os otherwise out.
2. Give some Spider Point credit for those of us that contribute financially to other Spider causes. For example, I am a law school graduate (and not a UR undergrad) and give to a law scholarship in my Dad's name. Being retired, I have a finite amount to contribute. In order to keep my seats, get a parking pass, etc. I give to the Spider Club, but that means I give that much less to the Law School. Presently, gifts to other UR programs mean absolutely nothing for Spider Points. While I know they want to encourage support of athletics through the Spider Club contributions, cannot other UR contributions count for something, even if not equal to Spider Club gifts? I fought this battle with Jim Miller and lost, but maybe Hardt will be willing to take another look.
3. Revive the Rowdies. Promote student participation and help fund them.
1. Upgrade cheering. We have decent cheerleaders, but their cheers are lame and they generally don't show up when school is out for the rest of the students. Suggest they hire a legitimate coach, require that they attend all games even when school os otherwise out.
2. Give some Spider Point credit for those of us that contribute financially to other Spider causes. For example, I am a law school graduate (and not a UR undergrad) and give to a law scholarship in my Dad's name. Being retired, I have a finite amount to contribute. In order to keep my seats, get a parking pass, etc. I give to the Spider Club, but that means I give that much less to the Law School. Presently, gifts to other UR programs mean absolutely nothing for Spider Points. While I know they want to encourage support of athletics through the Spider Club contributions, cannot other UR contributions count for something, even if not equal to Spider Club gifts? I fought this battle with Jim Miller and lost, but maybe Hardt will be willing to take another look.
3. Revive the Rowdies. Promote student participation and help fund them.
My comments are more to the point on accountability in this thread than the game day experience kind of things.
So, accountability doesn't mean you get fired for failing to meet the goals necessarily. There are many, many coaches in FBS for example (where they really take accountability for results seriously) who cite "winning a National Championship" as the goal. Most never have and never will win one. And Many will keep their jobs for extended periods of time. A goal has to be aspirational. Nobody at say Tennessee (fill in name of your own major BCS program that overestimates how good they could or should be in here) is going to want to hear that the goal is to go 8-3 every year and make a Bowl (any Bowl) game. The Coach there has to say the goal is a National Championship and it is. That's what he wants and everyone associated with the program wants. But 2 or 3 or 5 or 10 years without it won't necessarily get him fired, nor should it. If that 10 years of no National Championship includes 4 SEC Titles, 10 years of 10 or 11 win seasons, 3 New Year's Day bowls plus 5 appearances in the FBS playoffs and two championship game appearances; I don't think anybody will be calling for his head. They might be starting the collections for the shrine though! Conversely, 10 years of a mixed bag of a couple 9-2's, a 7-4 along the way, a bad year with injuries at 6-5, and mostly 8-3's with a current year of another 7-4 (with 10 Bowl games of varying prestige along the way) and he is probably gone and should be. Too long a time not coming all that close to the aspirations and no reason based on past performance that things are likely to change all that much and he can get to the aspirational goals. It's a feel thing really for an AD/President.
And to me this is where Mooney is - - - too long a time not coming close to the aspirations and no reason to think its likely to get all that much better. Obviously aspirations are still the undefined key. For me, our aspiration every year should be to win a league championship (excell amongst our peers), make the NCAA and advance to the Sweet 16. Its probably fair to say you could simply say our aspiration is to be a Top 25 team each year as that's probably about the same thing. I do not expect we'll get there every year or even all that regularly (just like the guy who says the goal is a NAtional Championship isn't getting there very often if ever). But I expect to have legitimate hope some years, that the we're getting closer somehow, that kind of thing. But all these years without reaching that and seemingly getting farther away every year have me ready to try another guy. Accountability to me is on the AD/President NOT on Mooney. I don't need CM standing up there saying its his fault and he needs to be better etc. and thus he's accountable. We need someone to hold him accountable with his job unfortunately because we need to put someone else in the job!
Now, all of that said, I will pass some praise to CM. When we hit rock bottom at 3-13, I really thought we were going to get a new coach - - - no so much because of the record and the prospect the 2nd half of the season wouldn't be any better because I actually think he could have survived that, but rather I thought he was losing (or had even lost) the team. And no coach can survive that no matter what. But that looks to have not been the case. He has done a good job keeping them playing hard etc. and getting the ship turned around a little bit. I am not saying we keep him, because I just think his time here is done (and I am not sure I can give too much credit for pushing past rock bottom without having to conclude it was his fault we were at rock bottom!).
So, accountability doesn't mean you get fired for failing to meet the goals necessarily. There are many, many coaches in FBS for example (where they really take accountability for results seriously) who cite "winning a National Championship" as the goal. Most never have and never will win one. And Many will keep their jobs for extended periods of time. A goal has to be aspirational. Nobody at say Tennessee (fill in name of your own major BCS program that overestimates how good they could or should be in here) is going to want to hear that the goal is to go 8-3 every year and make a Bowl (any Bowl) game. The Coach there has to say the goal is a National Championship and it is. That's what he wants and everyone associated with the program wants. But 2 or 3 or 5 or 10 years without it won't necessarily get him fired, nor should it. If that 10 years of no National Championship includes 4 SEC Titles, 10 years of 10 or 11 win seasons, 3 New Year's Day bowls plus 5 appearances in the FBS playoffs and two championship game appearances; I don't think anybody will be calling for his head. They might be starting the collections for the shrine though! Conversely, 10 years of a mixed bag of a couple 9-2's, a 7-4 along the way, a bad year with injuries at 6-5, and mostly 8-3's with a current year of another 7-4 (with 10 Bowl games of varying prestige along the way) and he is probably gone and should be. Too long a time not coming all that close to the aspirations and no reason based on past performance that things are likely to change all that much and he can get to the aspirational goals. It's a feel thing really for an AD/President.
And to me this is where Mooney is - - - too long a time not coming close to the aspirations and no reason to think its likely to get all that much better. Obviously aspirations are still the undefined key. For me, our aspiration every year should be to win a league championship (excell amongst our peers), make the NCAA and advance to the Sweet 16. Its probably fair to say you could simply say our aspiration is to be a Top 25 team each year as that's probably about the same thing. I do not expect we'll get there every year or even all that regularly (just like the guy who says the goal is a NAtional Championship isn't getting there very often if ever). But I expect to have legitimate hope some years, that the we're getting closer somehow, that kind of thing. But all these years without reaching that and seemingly getting farther away every year have me ready to try another guy. Accountability to me is on the AD/President NOT on Mooney. I don't need CM standing up there saying its his fault and he needs to be better etc. and thus he's accountable. We need someone to hold him accountable with his job unfortunately because we need to put someone else in the job!
Now, all of that said, I will pass some praise to CM. When we hit rock bottom at 3-13, I really thought we were going to get a new coach - - - no so much because of the record and the prospect the 2nd half of the season wouldn't be any better because I actually think he could have survived that, but rather I thought he was losing (or had even lost) the team. And no coach can survive that no matter what. But that looks to have not been the case. He has done a good job keeping them playing hard etc. and getting the ship turned around a little bit. I am not saying we keep him, because I just think his time here is done (and I am not sure I can give too much credit for pushing past rock bottom without having to conclude it was his fault we were at rock bottom!).
