Football to Patriot League. Should basketball and rest of sports be concerned?

[SpiderTrap]

I could be wrong, but I assume most sports (basketball and football excluded) fly commercial, not private, even at the P4 level. Between getting to and from the airport, security/check-in, and making connections, those cross-country flying trips end up being way longer than a 5-hour door-to-door bus ride where you can at least nap pretty much the whole way.

This is correct- but I did hear that when these West Coast schools made the move to the ACC and Big Ten conferences, that they did commit to their non-revenue sports the ability to travel private for a select number of games. So yes - not all of the games like basketball and football will travel, but they will get a limited access to private flights.

I assume these schools now that fly private just charter/rent a flight each time. With all this travel - would it be better for them to just purchase their own private plane(s) to be held by the school? Or lease a plane or two with a major airline carrier (Delta, JetBlue, etc) and in return - in the NIL world we live in, have their programs market for these companies to help offset some of the costs.

 

[SFspidur]

A number of schools have small private planes for athletic recruiting and other small-group travel, but I don't think the economics work to own a large plane, even if you're flying teams a lot. Purchase, ownership, and operation costs rise significantly for those types of aircraft. Those planes need to be in the air most of the time to be cost-effective, and I don't see any way the need is there. Plus you have vastly different sized squads. You're not going to pay fuel and other costs to fly a 180-seat plane somewhere to transport the 6-person tennis team and a few coaches/staff (extreme example I know, but it even applies to larger teams where you might transporting ~40 people).

NFL teams with all their billions in value (other than the Patriots to my knowledge) just charter planes instead of owning. The Patriots-owned planes are operated by a third-party charter company that charters them out for other purposes in the offseason.

 

[urmite]

And football is probably the easiest sports in terms of travel. You play once a week on Saturday. I wonder how the student athletes that play on weeknights are gonna handle all of this travel throughout the season. I saw a graphic were the Stanford women's volleyball team will be traveling something like 33,000 miles during their season. Good thing we are thinking of the student athlete in these conference realignment decisions.

I assume this doesn’t include the stop at my house, since that isn’t part of the official itinerary…

 

[spiderman]

they need to separate rev and non-rev sports into separate conferences with geograhic-based conferences for non-rev sports.

 

[SpiderTrap]

A number of schools have small private planes for athletic recruiting and other small-group travel, but I don't think the economics work to own a large plane, even if you're flying teams a lot. Purchase, ownership, and operation costs rise significantly for those types of aircraft. Those planes need to be in the air most of the time to be cost-effective, and I don't see any way the need is there. Plus you have vastly different sized squads. You're not going to pay fuel and other costs to fly a 180-seat plane somewhere to transport the 6-person tennis team and a few coaches/staff (extreme example I know, but it even applies to larger teams where you might transporting ~40 people).

NFL teams with all their billions in value (other than the Patriots to my knowledge) just charter planes instead of owning. The Patriots-owned planes are operated by a third-party charter company that charters them out for other purposes in the offseason.

Yeah - I had heard most pro teams don't own planes, but I was thinking for an entire athletic program - would it get more use? You likely would need two-three size planes.

But even in the chartering world - how long until we see advertisements on football helmets/jerseys, etc for an airline that that a program trades to offset the cost of chartering all these flights. The pro teams already allow ads on their uniforms, so I would assume the colleges will be next in line. I don't think the players care. Hey Stanford women's volleyball - we are going to put a Delta sticker on your jerseys and warm-up shirts, in return, - you get to fly private planes to all your games.

But this just shows the arms race that is college athletics - charter flights used to be a big deal, something only the bigger programs enjoyed. But now with this conference re-alignment, and even before - it has become more commonplace even for mid-majors like UR, and will continue to become more commonplace as well.

 

[97spiderfan]

I could be wrong, but I assume most sports (basketball and football excluded) fly commercial, not private, even at the P4 level. Between getting to and from the airport, security/check-in, and making connections, those cross-country flying trips end up being way longer than a 5-hour door-to-door bus ride where you can at least nap pretty much the whole way.

Agreed and if you've flown commercial since Covid, it's a 50-50 proposition that said flight is going to go off on time as scheduled.

 

[97spiderfan]

they need to separate rev and non-rev sports into separate conferences with geograhic-based conferences for non-rev sports.

Yes, this is a good idea. It is insane to have your golf team, women's volleyball team and swim teams flying all over the country for meets. It is askig way to much of student athletes, whom unlike football and hoops athletes, do these sports not to be professionals but are true amateurs and none of them are getting any NIL money to do so.

 

[SpiderTrap]

I think the way this happens is the power schools break off and create their own super-league with geographical divisions, similar to the Pros. This way - the non-revenue sports can stay local for the most part, but the revenue sports will have those big games cross country, etc.

 

[spiderman]

... but are true amateurs and none of them are getting any NIL money to do so.

well ... unless you're hot.

 

[SpiderTrap]

well ... unless you're hot.

I wish NIL Money would be more public because this was one area NIL money was supposed to help - in these non-revenue sports, especially on the female side. For sports like women's volleyball, lacrosse, field hockey, swimming, etc - where there really is no viable professional option - college sports are the top level. But these are big businesses for equipment makers and brands.

Example - womens field hockey. There are approximately 6,500 womens field hockey players in the US. Then factor in all the HS players, and youth players - it becomes a very large number. But say STX, one of the largest producers of field hockey sticks, can now align with the best players in each region and have them market to the youth community to purchase their gear and equipment. Its not like basketball or football where a pro athlete can do it, cause there really is no pro field hockey.

But hard to tell if this occuring because NIL is so secretive, but this was supposed to be one of the positives of NIL - to help some of these non-revenue athletes make money in probably the only 4 years they truly can make money off themselves in their sport.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Is NIL secretive? I just saw a list of the top 10 college NIL earners this week.

Or is it that we're just not hearing about the field hockey player who makes an extra $2500 in a year because why would we? The vast amount of attention will go to the top 10. (for those wondering the Duke freshman big man is #1 by far, with the KU center who transferred from Michigan up there, a couple of women's college hoopers in the top 5 as well as a men's basketball guy I had never heard of, but he has 1 arm.)

 

[SFspidur]

All of those "NIL valuation" rankings are completely made up.

The "methodologies" are giant word salads liberally citing "proprietary algorithms" they use to concoct all of this out of thin air.

About On3 NIL Valuation, Roster Value and NIL

The On3 NIL Valuation, Post Value and the NIL 100 set the standard market value for student-athletes and their NIL deals.

www.on3.com

 

[spiderman]

Trap, what you'e asking about is absolutely happening. Just not through collectives.

athletes are paid for the eyeballs that follow them. so a great women's field hockey player needs to work outside the lines to have a huge social media following. businesses see the value in signing them if they have enough followers. they actually pay more to great players with big followings than they would to advertise on ESPN because these followers are a very targeted audience for their product.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Trap, what you'e asking about is absolutely happening. Just not through collectives.

athletes are paid for the eyeballs that follow them. so a great women's field hockey player needs to work outside the lines to have a huge social media following. businesses see the value in signing them if they have enough followers. they actually pay more to great players with big followings than they would to advertise on ESPN because these followers are a very targeted audience for their product.

I don't expect it to happen through collectives - but its hard to say how much and how big it is happening because these NIL numbers, even from private companies are so secretive. Schools and Players don't have to disclose what players are receiving what money from what sources? and vice versa - the big name brands don't have to disclose either, and most do not.

I agree its happening and should be happening. For the best women's college lacrosse player in the NCAA - this is their time to make money. But you are right - they need a social following. If they can do that - then someone will pay them to post on instagram or tiktok their latest equipment, fashion, etc.

 

[urfan1]

Most Olympic sport athletes realize they are not playing for pay.

 

[LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster]

I wish NIL Money would be more public because this was one area NIL money was supposed to help - in these non-revenue sports, especially on the female side. For sports like women's volleyball, lacrosse, field hockey, swimming, etc - where there really is no viable professional option - college sports are the top level. But these are big businesses for equipment makers and brands.

Example - womens field hockey. There are approximately 6,500 womens field hockey players in the US. Then factor in all the HS players, and youth players - it becomes a very large number. But say STX, one of the largest producers of field hockey sticks, can now align with the best players in each region and have them market to the youth community to purchase their gear and equipment. Its not like basketball or football where a pro athlete can do it, cause there really is no pro field hockey.

But hard to tell if this occuring because NIL is so secretive, but this was supposed to be one of the positives of NIL - to help some of these non-revenue athletes make money in probably the only 4 years they truly can make money off themselves in their sport.

why are you so obsessed with how much money they are making?

 

[SpiderTrap]

why are you so obsessed with how much money they are making?

Not obsessed - but without tranparency - these kids have dreams of grandeur that they can make so much money from NIL, when the reality might be far from that. I don't doubt the top athletest make a lot or the big schools hand out money, but I think right now - there is difference in perspective and reality. And this causes a lot of transfer portal moves as kids THINK they can score big, but really - it might not be out there.

Plus - with transparency - it would help schools know what they are up against and competing against. Much like all of MLB teams know they are competing against the Yankees and their 300 million dollar payroll , it would be helpful for schools to know what they are up against and maybe what they need to do in order to get to next level. And does money equal wins - of course not. But you can't argue, the teams with the most money and most spending, have a leg up from the start.

 

[spider23]

. I don't doubt the top athletest make a lot or the big schools hand out money, but I think right now - there is difference in perspective and reality.

Just ask the UNLV Quarterback - at least he was for the first 3 games

 

[spiderman]

Plus - with transparency - it would help schools know what they are up against and competing against.

they all know what they're up against. coaches talk. a lot. they're are relationships outside of their current team. especially since assitants never know who they'll be working for next. and they share information because they want information.

fans don't need to know.

 

[SpiderTrap]

they all know what they're up against. coaches talk. a lot. they're are relationships outside of their current team. especially since assitants never know who they'll be working for next. and they share information because they want information.

fans don't need to know.

I would think this is one area they would not share information, just because it could result in stealing players. If you talk to Coach A and he tells you how much they are paying players or they are getting in NIL money, you now know how much you need to spend possibly to get one of those players. Very similar to companies not sharing salary information openly (although changing recently). While I am sure the coaches talk in generalities, I doubt they get specific.

 

[spiderman]

companies know the range. not specifics for individual emplyees, but they know what it takes. so do coaches.
when you offer a couple kids X and they turn you down for similar level schools, you start to get the sense you're low. you adjust.

 

[SFspidur]

Less than 6 months after saying they were leaving the WAC for the WCC after this academic year, Grand Canyon has shifted course and will join the MWC instead. Timing TBD...no later than summer 2026 but potentially sooner. They're touting their move to become part of an "elite trio" of non-football schools (alongside Gonzaga once they move to the Pac-12 and Wichita St.) to play in FBS conferences.

GCU accepts invite to Mountain West Conference - Grand Canyon University Athletics

The extraordinary success story of Grand Canyon and its athletic department began a new chapter on Friday as GCU accepted an invitation to the Mountain West Conference.

gculopes.com

 

[wr70beh]

Less than 6 months after saying they were leaving the WAC for the WCC after this academic year, Grand Canyon has shifted course and will join the MWC instead. Timing TBD...no later than summer 2026 but potentially sooner. They're touting their move to become part of an "elite trio" of non-football schools (alongside Gonzaga once they move to the Pac-12 and Wichita St.) to play in FBS conferences.

GCU accepts invite to Mountain West Conference - Grand Canyon University Athletics

The extraordinary success story of Grand Canyon and its athletic department began a new chapter on Friday as GCU accepted an invitation to the Mountain West Conference.

gculopes.com

They're looking for NIU or Toledo to complete the MWC fill-in, which will lead to some schools either moving up to FBS to fill in with the MAC or some other move. It's all shuffling the deck chairs when it comes to the non-P6 conferences.

 

[SFspidur]

The WCC is suing Grand Canyon after they abandoned their plans to join and are heading to the Mountain West instead. Grand Canyon is refusing to pay the balance of its WCC entrance fee and its exit fee.

West Coast Conference Takes Legal Action Against Grand Canyon University For Breach of Contract

The West Coast Conference filed a breach of contract lawsuit against Grand Canyon University today in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California. The lawsuit is the result of GCU’s refusal to satisfy and then deny its financial obligation with regards to substantial amounts...

wccsports.com

In other news, UC Davis is joining the Mountain West is all sports except football, which will remain FCS. Certainly a clear path for a future upgrade there though.