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Recruiting

fan2011

Graduate Assistant
Apr 21, 2014
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I have looked at our recruiting over the past 5 years. Using 247 sports I looked at how many offers each of our recruits over the past 5 years received, and also how many power conference offers they received. Verbal commits data is in parentheses.

Code:
Recruit    Offers    Power Offers
---------- Incoming ----------
Gilyard       7 (14)      0 (0)
Verbinski     3 (1)       0 (0)
Schneider     4 (5)       1 (1)
Cayo          1 (4)       0 (0)
Ford          2 (3)       0 (0)
Stansbury     1 (1)       0 (0)
------------ 2017 ------------
Buckingham   13 (12)     3 (4)
Sherod        9 (21)      1 (2)
Golden        5 (19)     0 (0)
------------ 2016 ------------
Johnson       1 (1)      0 (0)
Pitokache     1 (1)    0 (0)
------------ 2015 ------------
Fore          1 (2)       0 (0)
Smithen       1 (1)      0 (0)
Friendshuh    1 (15)      0 (0)
Deikvoss      1 (1)      0 (0)
------------ 2014 ------------
Shawn’Dre     1 (1)      0 (0)
Josh Jones    1 (6)      0 (0)
Tim Singleton 1 (7)      0 (0)
------------  2013 ------------
Allen         3 (3)      1 (1)
Taylor        1 (1)      0 (0)
------------  2012 ------------
Ododa         5 (5)      3 (3)
Piotrowski    7 (8)      4 (5)
Davis         1 (1)      0 (0)
Anthony       4 (4)      0 (0)
------------  Transfers ------------
Wood         11 (11)      6 (6)
Cline         1 (1)      0 (0)
Abakah        1 (1)      0 (0)

Next I tried to determine how many of our recruits are good enough to start on an NCAA caliber team. I came up with the following list:

Code:
Buckingham *
Sherod *
Fore
Shawn'Dre Jones
Ododa <-- most may disagree here, but his defense was a big part of why were were in the first 4 out in 2015. I believe the incredible drop in our defensive performance from 2015 to 2016 (52nd to 192nd) is largely due to the loss of Ododa
Anthony
Terry Allen
Cline

* projecting future performance based on freshmen year so far. Golden does not have enough playing time to determine.

If we look at our recruits where we were the only offer we have a success rate of 2/10 or 20% (which becomes 25% if we consider transfers). If you look at the players who received more than 1 offer we have a success rate of 5/6, or 83% (which becomes 71% if you consider transfers and 57% if you don't count Ododa). If the past 5 years is representative of what we can expect from future recruits there is a 20%-25% chance that Cayo will end up being an NCAA caliber player under Mooney while Gilyard, Verbinski and Schneider have 57% to 83% chance of turning out to be NCAA caliber players and Ford somewhere in between. Conservatively, we can expect 2 of the incoming class to turn into NCAA caliber players based on the number of offers they received and the past performance of recruits under Mooney.

Using the verbal commits data our success with 1-offer recruits is 22% and our success with multi-offer recruits is 55%, including transfers.
 
Last edited:
Are you sure those offer numbers are correct? We were the only one to offer ShawnDre? I'm pretty sure Deion was offered by Tulane, right? Khwan had no other offers?
 
I also wonder who does a better job tracking offers?
Verbalcommits shows Cayo with Vermont, St Bonavenure, & Northeastern...
 
I also wonder who does a better job tracking offers?
Verbalcommits shows Cayo with Vermont, St Bonavenure, & Northeastern...

I'll go through verbal commits and see if there are many disparities.
 
I'll go through verbal commits and see if there are many disparities.
More likely with incoming recruits. I also wonder if some offers get dropped after a few years. Surprised about Shawndre..no offers on any site I have found....
 
In our current situation, we're not going to get a lot of kids with power offers. We need to get players who haven't peak physically and develop them into top notch players. The Players have to have a strong drive to want to improve and the coaches need to know how to get them where they need to be.
 
2011. Thanks that is a great list. We should bookmark that. My takeaway is that our 2017 class looks like an anomoly. Our freshman are playing this year because they are good and were highly sought after. Our 2018 class looks very similar to our 2016, 15, and 14 classes, not that high sought after, excluding Gilyard.
 
I have looked at our recruiting over the past 5 years. Using 247 sports I looked at how many offers each of our recruits over the past 5 years received, and also how many power conference offers they received. Verbal commits data is in parentheses.

Code:
Recruit    Offers    Power Offers
---------- Incoming ----------
Gilyard       7 (14)      0 (0)
Verbinski     3 (1)       0 (0)
Schneider     4 (5)       1 (1)
Cayo          1 (4)       0 (0)
Ford          2 (3)       0 (0)
Stansbury     1 (1)       0 (0)
------------ 2017 ------------
Buckingham   13 (12)     3 (4)
Sherod        9 (21)      1 (2)
Golden        5 (19)     0 (0)
------------ 2016 ------------
Johnson       1 (1)      0 (0)
Pitokache     1 (1)    0 (0)
------------ 2015 ------------
Fore          1 (2)       0 (0)
Smithen       1 (1)      0 (0)
Friendshuh    1 (15)      0 (0)
Deikvoss      1 (1)      0 (0)
------------ 2014 ------------
Shawn’Dre     1 (1)      0 (0)
Josh Jones    1 (6)      0 (0)
Tim Singleton 1 (7)      0 (0)
------------  2013 ------------
Allen         3 (3)      1 (1)
Taylor        1 (1)      0 (0)
------------  2012 ------------
Ododa         5 (5)      3 (3)
Piotrowski    7 (8)      4 (5)
Davis         1 (1)      0 (0)
Anthony       4 (4)      0 (0)
------------  Transfers ------------
Wood         11 (11)      6 (6)
Cline         1 (1)      0 (0)
Abakah        1 (1)      0 (0)

Next I tried to determine how many of our recruits are good enough to start on an NCAA caliber team. I came up with the following list:

Code:
Buckingham *
Sherod *
Fore
Shawn'Dre Jones
Ododa <-- most may disagree here, but his defense was a big part of why were were in the first 4 out in 2015. I believe the incredible drop in our defensive performance from 2015 to 2016 (52nd to 192nd) is largely due to the loss of Ododa
Anthony
Terry Allen
Cline

* projecting future performance based on freshmen year so far. Golden does not have enough playing time to determine.

If we look at our recruits where we were the only offer we have a success rate of 2/10 or 20% (which becomes 25% if we consider transfers). If you look at the players who received more than 1 offer we have a success rate of 5/6, or 83% (which becomes 71% if you consider transfers and 57% if you don't count Ododa). If the past 5 years is representative of what we can expect from future recruits there is a 20%-25% chance that Cayo will end up being an NCAA caliber player under Mooney while Gilyard, Verbinski and Schneider have 57% to 83% chance of turning out to be NCAA caliber players and Ford somewhere in between. Conservatively, we can expect 2 of the incoming class to turn into NCAA caliber players based on the number of offers they received and the past performance of recruits under Mooney.

Using the verbal commits data our success with 1-offer recruits is 22% and our success with multi-offer recruits is 55%, including transfers.
Great post and great information.
The only question I have is how do you define "an NCAA caliber team?" Does that mean any Div 1 team in the NCAA or are you referring to a team in Div 1 which participates in the NCAA postseason? If the term applies to all NCAA teams, the standard could be very low. I would hope that we would not find it acceptable to recruit any player who might play for say a UMass Lowell, Central Connecticut State, or a Mississippi Valley State.
 
Great post and great information.
The only question I have is how do you define "an NCAA caliber team?" Does that mean any Div 1 team in the NCAA or are you referring to a team in Div 1 which participates in the NCAA postseason? If the term applies to all NCAA teams, the standard could be very low. I would hope that we would not find it acceptable to recruit any player who might play for say a UMass Lowell, Central Connecticut State, or a Mississippi Valley State.

I mean players that would start for teams that get at large bids to the NCAA tournament from the A10. It is pretty subjective of course.
 
My sense is that Verbalcommits is more reliable than 247. That said, I am not that sure that either is particularly bulletproof.

2011's analysis is interesting here. The subjectivity of who is an A10 level player is of course critical to consider.

To me, there's another element to this, which is how many guys have we gotten with P5 offers who didn't pan out (Big Luke?). I think those are rare cases but also may prove the counter theory that having a slew of offers or P5 offers is also not a guarantee of success.

At the end of the day, I'd love guys to come here who are in higher demand. CM likely won't have a ton of success with that until we are consistently going to the tournament. Catch-22.
 
I have two take-aways from the above chart, which is interesting to review. First, it is clearly a very poor predictor of success overall, since there are some huge "misses" in it. It suggests, for example that Wood will become a stronger player than Cline, which we all know to be rubbish. I, someone who never tends to bet, would be inclined to break my rule and predict that Johnson and Fore (both predicted by the formula to fail) will have far more stellar final results than Verbinski and Schneider (who both look fairly good based on other offers). And, I would even predict that if they make it to campus, Ford and Cayo will outperform Verbinski and Schneider also (which the formula clearly does not support).

What the formula may be correct about is that when there are very many offers (Buckingham, Sherod) the odds are good of success. However, we are not showing many guys with offers that compare to these two...
 
I have two take-aways from the above chart, which is interesting to review. First, it is clearly a very poor predictor of success overall, since there are some huge "misses" in it. It suggests, for example that Wood will become a stronger player than Cline, which we all know to be rubbish. I, someone who never tends to bet, would be inclined to break my rule and predict that Johnson and Fore (both predicted by the formula to fail) will have far more stellar final results than Verbinski and Schneider (who both look fairly good based on other offers). And, I would even predict that if they make it to campus, Ford and Cayo will outperform Verbinski and Schneider also (which the formula clearly does not support).

What the formula may be correct about is that when there are very many offers (Buckingham, Sherod) the odds are good of success. However, we are not showing many guys with offers that compare to these two...

One can find exceptions to every statistical predictor. That said, I think that we will do better if we go with the odds. A book I read on on the plane on my first trip to Vegas helped pay for the weekend:
Go With the Odds: A Guide to Successful Gambling
 
And, I would even predict that if they make it to campus, Ford and Cayo will outperform Verbinski and Schneider also

I'm confused oldie, is there something that leads you to believe that one or more of our freshmen won't enroll? Just trying to understand where you're coming from.
 
2011. Thanks that is a great list. We should bookmark that. My takeaway is that our 2017 class looks like an anomoly. Our freshman are playing this year because they are good and were highly sought after. Our 2018 class looks very similar to our 2016, 15, and 14 classes, not that high sought after, excluding Gilyard.
Agree so far. Godwin would have been the cream of the incoming 2017 class.
 
GoSpidersGo, to answer your question above...

My "if they make it go campus" (regarding AJ and Nathan) comment was more of a cautionary note based on a few of our most promising recruits in recent years who never made it to campus. These cases have been frequently discussed on this board. I truly have no specific reasons to expect issues, given that "early"/fall recruits typically have stronger academics, overall, than Spring signees.

There is no data supporting my caution, just a general caution when we sign a guy who appears "too good to be true", and was not highly recruited by other schools (which applies to both of these recruits). I have to wonder if we just saw something that others missed (the optimistic view), or if we missed (or ignored) something the others saw (the less optimistic perspective).... Only time will tell, but I really like the recent highlights, and stats, for both Nathan and particularly for AJ.
 
Oldie, you understand these guys signed with us, right? They can't just change their mind and go somewhere else, at least not for a year and we have to release them for transfer.
 
All recruits will show up and no one is transferring out this year.
PF will graduate next year and I look to him to become a graduate transfer and take his UR degree to a place where he as a graduate student can get some good playing time and contribute. This will open one spot for the class of 2019, hopefully Bryce Golden. Joe Kirby will graduate as well, but I am not sure that he follow the same route, but it would not surprise me. That would open the second spot for recruiting in 2019.
Two of our incoming freshmen will redshirt spreading out the class of 2019 to four players.
Mark it down.
 
I may be wrong, but I do not believe there is a scholly available for Kirby next year. Only 13.
 
I may be wrong, but I do not believe there is a scholly available for Kirby next year. Only 13.

I realize that. I was thinking that he would be awarded financial aid instead. However, both he and Paul will graduate next year and provided Paul transfers there will be two openings for the class of 2019.
 
Joe will have exhausted his eligibility when he graduates in 2018. Paul will have a year remaining but could easily go grad transfer route.

Here's what our classes actually look like:
2016 (5) : fore, Johnson, friendshuh, pistokache, Solly
2017 (2) : nick, buck
2018 (6) : grant, gilyard, Cayo, verbinskis, ford, Schneider

So we get only 1 scholarship and that presumes PF graduates and leaves. Not a foregone conclusion.
 
I realize that. I was thinking that he would be awarded financial aid instead. However, both he and Paul will graduate next year and provided Paul transfers there will be two openings for the class of 2019.
I realized that PF will never play at UR when Kwesi had 3 fouls and Sherod was playing center.
 
I also wonder who does a better job tracking offers?
Verbalcommits shows Cayo with Vermont, St Bonavenure, & Northeastern...

Hello! My name is Nathan and I run Verbal Commits. All those offers were confirmed and were at one point legit.

I try and confirm as many offers as possible when posting them. By the time a player commits to a school, other offers listed on their VC player page may no longer be on the table. It's tricky to find out exactly when an offer is pulled.
 
Hello! My name is Nathan and I run Verbal Commits. All those offers were confirmed and were at one point legit.

I try and confirm as many offers as possible when posting them. By the time a player commits to a school, other offers listed on their VC player page may no longer be on the table. It's tricky to find out exactly when an offer is pulled.
Yes, I was trying to be nice to 247. I know that VC usually has a more complete list of offers and is my go to site for that information. But in fairness, I will say 247 does a good job with compiling ratings.
 
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Thanks Nathan, I enjoy your site also. Keep up the good work. I'm not really worried about rankings, I prefer to see what other schools are interested.
 
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Hello! My name is Nathan and I run Verbal Commits. All those offers were confirmed and were at one point legit.

I try and confirm as many offers as possible when posting them. By the time a player commits to a school, other offers listed on their VC player page may no longer be on the table. It's tricky to find out exactly when an offer is pulled.

Hey Nathan, you run a great site. What brings you to the Richmond basketball boards?
 
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Yes, I was trying to be nice to 247. I know that VC usually has a more complete list of offers and is my go to site for that information. But in fairness, I will say 247 does a good job with compiling ratings.

I 100% agree. 247 does a great job with rankings. We average Rivals, Scout, and ESPN, though we have been having bugs with Rivals, which happens to be the most updated in terms of rankings of those three.

I'd like to add 247 at some point to the rankings. Making sure they update accurately and automatically is a different story...
 
Hey Nathan, you run a great site. What brings you to the Richmond basketball boards?

Thank you! I saw you mentioned Verbal Commits on your post and wanted to see what y'all were talking about.

I look for mentions of Verbal Commits on the internet every so often. There are times where we have something wrong on the site that I am unaware of and someone points it out on a message board. I want VC to be as close to accurate as possible so I try to be diligent with our accuracy.

In regards to the Richmond VC board, the only thing I am not 100% sure about is Grant Shepherd's offer. There are talks he may reclass to 2018 and I don't know whether or not the offer will stand if he decides to be part of the 2018 class.
 
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