OT: When NIL goes wrong

[spider23]

Mooney has rightfully earned praise for bringing in a group of guys that appear to have great chemistry, play for each other, and are winning. No idea what guys are making or not making, but I don't think we are out there outbidding for players. SDSU is very much another school that is not outbidding others, bringing in guys for fit and program culture. Evidenced by losing Keshad Johnson to Arizona for high six figures per much intel.

Our guy Rick has a billionaire donor, an NIL general manager, and brought in a bunch of guys. Seems like it is not quite working out, and if you are a player, look out b/c you just got chucked under the bus and a crazed Slick Rick has the gas on the pedal:

The scathing insults Rick Pitino blasted his St. John’s players with

After a close 68-62 loss to Seton Hall on Sunday, Rick Pitino lost his patience with his new team, to put it nicely.

nypost.com

 

[fan2011]

Pretty crazy for any coach to throw his players under the bus by name in public comments.

 

[spider23]

He has been boiling now for a few weeks. Granted, Danny Hurley is a bit hard to take, but after losing to Uconn, Pitino claimed he does not yell at referees. He considers it cheating to influence the game is such a way. I guess he likes the moral high ground these days. He has been a great coach, I was fully expecting them in the dance this year. But boy oh boy is he salty.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

Unless I missed something from the article, at least Pitino didn't mention they are getting paid good money to perform.

 

[spiderman]

what a dick.

he was quoted a week or two ago saying NIL per team should be capped at like $1.5M.
guess it's not as easy to recruit when you don't have the advantage of a school brand like Kentucky ... or WHATEVER recruiting advantage he had in Louisville.

maybe coach's contracts should be capped, Rick. 6 years for $20M seems excessive for a 14-12 season.

 

[fatherspider]

As a NY based college bball fan I was excited when he went to Iona. He said he would retire there, lol. Then I was excited for him at SJU but his recent public reprimands have gone way too far. Lose with some dignity. You are coaching, is any of it your fault?
One more year of garbage like this and he will be booed off the court every game.

 

[97spiderfan]

Yes, Pitino is a dick, he is classless and publicly shaming players is never a good luck. That said, if players are going to be getting paid 6 figures with unlimited free agency to go wherever they want, whenever they want to the highest bidder, in a mercenary type of system, than certainly some enhanced critique of their performance should come with that territory.

 

[spiderman]

lol, Rick blames his assistants for recruiting unathletic players like he has no say in recruiting and like he didn't hire the assistants.

you're the head coach, Rick. it's all on you.

 

[fatherspider]

Yes, Pitino is a dick, he is classless and publicly shaming players is never a good luck. That said, if players are going to be getting paid 6 figures with unlimited free agency to go wherever they want, whenever they want to the highest bidder, in a mercenary type of system, than certainly some enhanced critique of their performance should come with that territory.

Great points. The NIL has turned this into professional athletics, and maybe even worse.

 

[spiderman]

I don't feel that way at all. schools make a ton of money on 2 revenue producing sports. kids are now allowed to accept money. schools (or collectives) are offering money.

you thought it was more fair when a booster couldn't offer to buy a poor kid a pizza when he got back to school from a game and the dining hall was closed?

 

[97spiderfan]

you thought it was more fair when a booster couldn't offer to buy a poor kid a pizza when he got back to school from a game and the dining hall was closed?

No, but the pendulum has swung way too far in the other direction and think there is big difference between a booster buying a kid a pizza and a booster dropping a million dollars on a kid to come play for them.

There is zero competitive balance in college sports now, you can essentially pay kids however much the sugar daddy donors and collectives see fit. So, if players are getting paid, than they should have similar expectations to any other paid athletes in terms of scrutiny of performance. Players getting paid can't have their cake and eat it too, all I am saying. You want paid, you want 6 figures, with that type of pay comes scrutiny and critique.

 

[spiderman]

No, but the pendulum has swung way too far in the other direction and think there is big difference between a booster buying a kid a pizza and a booster dropping a million dollars on a kid to come play for them.

There is zero competitive balance in college sports now, you can essentially pay kids however much the sugar daddy donors and collectives see fit. So, if players are getting paid, than they should have similar expectations to any other paid athletes in terms of scrutiny of performance. Players getting paid can't have their cake and eat it too, all I am saying. You want paid, you want 6 figures, with that type of pay comes scrutiny and critique.

there was never competitive balance in college sports. nothing has changed in that regard with NIL.

I don't understand the mentality that now you can criticize college athletes because they get some NIL but you never would before without it. NIL doesn't cost fans anything they don't want to spend.

 

[SpiderDad75]

As a NY based college bball fan I was excited when he went to Iona. He said he would retire there, lol. Then I was excited for him at SJU but his recent public reprimands have gone way too far. Lose with some dignity. You are coaching, is any of it your fault?
One more year of garbage like this and he will be booed off the court every game.

"He said he would retire there, lol."
That is exactly what he told us when he was recruiting Dji for Iona...a ton of times. I def didn't believe him but was a great recruiter. One thing with Coach Pitino, you will either make it to your dreams or you will fail...no in between. But his comments the other day were unacceptable and shouldn't be made public.

 

[97spiderfan]

there was never competitive balance in college sports. nothing has changed in that regard with NIL.

I don't understand the mentality that now you can criticize college athletes because they get some NIL but you never would before without it. NIL doesn't cost fans anything they don't want to spend.

You think NIL doesn't cost fans anything? Really. NIL means constant roster turnover, watching your favorite players leave for $$$. Have a new team every year, the big guys with the big dollar donors having an even bigger advantage now.

And if you look at the NIL from a strict financial standpoint for student athletes, I guess it is great for them. From both a personal and basketball development standpoint, a character standpoint, college teaching kids life lesson standpoint though, the NIL is terrible. Basically, live your life for the $$$, which I get is how our capitalistic society works, but man I think there is much more to living a full life than money.

 

[spiderman]

that sounds like "follow the status quo", "be a good soldier", "yes sir, may I have another" thinking.

sure, making millions off college basketball and football players "builds character". lol.
I'm glad you've been fortunate enough to love your career so much you'd do it without a paycheck.
I work for money.

yes, we lost Tyler Burton to an NIL package. he already graduated from Richmond. he may well have left anyway without the package to play in a higher major conference. who knows? a lot of schools have lost good players who transferred up over the years before NIL. we haven't lost as many. kids do seem to love Richmond.

but somehow post-Burton we survived. as a fan, I'm having more fun this year than last. just like in most jobs ... everyone is replaceable.

 

[97spiderfan]

a lot of schools have lost good players who transferred up over the years before NIL.

Transferring is on a whole different level know with the NIL. I don't think that is good for the sport, I don't think that is good for the fans of the sports, and in many cases I don't think it is good for the player.

 

[spiderman]

the increase in transfers is part NIL and part due to the extra year of eligibility everyone got. we'll see another 1700 or so this year just like the last few years. should see a decrease next year as the eligibility thing will finally be over.

 

[spider23]

Its interesting. You do need to also have some balance of buying the most talented guys, vs bringing in guys that actually want to be good teammates and win games. I do think Mooney has done a good job of bringing in guys that are good teammates and playing for each other. Still remember coaching a kid in MS travel, probably the least talented guy on the team but great kid. One game he is just jacking up a shot every time he touches it - so I had a little conversation with him about his shot selection. Seems that his dad offered him $20 if he scored 15 points (I don't think he was ever in double digits). But I do think there may be some pull back at some point when big donors figure out that ROI is not guaranteed.

Also, another angle on this situation with Pitino: You are in a great spot Ryan Soulis.

 

[GKiller]

the increase in transfers is part NIL and part due to the extra year of eligibility everyone got. we'll see another 1700 or so this year just like the last few years. should see a decrease next year as the eligibility thing will finally be over.

Idk when did the transfer without sitting out start? That is recent. Post Covid. And now u can transfer as much as u want without sitting. Multi transfers free agency. So odd to me that the majority of ncaa membership wanted transfer rules but then ran to the courts. Anyway yes the covid year plays role but I think the no sit out makes it a push & my guess is we still see roughly same #s. Tbd.

 

[mr.spider]

yes, we lost Tyler Burton to an NIL package. he already graduated from Richmond. he may well have left anyway without the package to play in a higher major conference. who knows? a lot of schools have lost good players who transferred up over the years before NIL. we haven't lost as many. kids do seem to love Richmond.

Who knows what TBs intentions were. It's possible he would have transferred without the big dollars, but I'm pretty certain money was a factor.

You're absolutely right. Kids do seem to love Richmond, which is the biggest feather in Mooney's cap. Now with dollars in the equation, some of the biggest advantages of our school are lost, though. I do expect some good stories to come out of Richmond where kids turn down more money because they love it here, though! But probably not gobs of extra money.

In the end, it most likely keeps us status quo with less upside. We will likely out-NIL many many schools, but we will likely also find it very hard to throw out $500K for a superstar.

Let's make this year really count. GO SPIDERS!

 

[spiderman]

Idk when did the transfer without sitting out start? That is recent. Post Covid. And now u can transfer as much as u want without sitting. Multi transfers free agency. So odd to me that the majority of ncaa membership wanted transfer rules but then ran to the courts. Anyway yes the covid year plays role but I think the no sit out makes it a push & my guess is we still see roughly same #s. Tbd.

I thought this past year they pulled back on letting kids transfer more than once without sitting.

 

[spiderman]

We will likely out-NIL many many schools, but we will likely also find it very hard to throw out $500K for a superstar.

if we're recruiting against the Patriot League, we'll probably win.
if we're recruiting against the ACC we'll probably lose.
just like it was before NIL.

 

[SFspidur]

I thought this past year they pulled back on letting kids transfer more than once without sitting.

They did, until the restraining order in the lawsuit about it opened the floodgates.

 

[urmite]

They did, until the restraining order in the lawsuit about it opened the floodgates.

You mean the restraining order that limits each Player to only one transfer per game?

 

[mr.spider]

if we're recruiting against the Patriot League, we'll probably win.
if we're recruiting against the ACC we'll probably lose.
just like it was before NIL.

The issue is with retaining players. Before NIL, we had a strong chance of keeping players because they seemed to love Richmond and Mooney. We had a better shot with transfers IN than OUT. We weren't big on either, but we rarely lost a player unless he was unsuccessful here.

NIL is a big hit to the pride of the school. I assume that's why a lot of us are here - pride in our school! When players take no loyalty to the school, it diminishes it. I want our kids to want to be Spiders!

I'll take it a step further...my love for the Spiders way out ways my joy of the game of basketball, which I do like. I would tune in to cheer on our Spiders for a game of pick-up sticks if it were a thing! I appreciated the student I ran into at the Wichita State game who was very proud of his school's National Championships in bowling.

 

[spiderman]

The issue is with retaining players. Before NIL, we had a strong chance of keeping players because they seemed to love Richmond and Mooney.

if we start losing kids, I'll worry about it. seems we have a great family atmosphere on the team. guys don't want to leave if they see an opportunity for playing time.

Dji is the only guy I'm concerned with losing this year. just like with Burton, I assume he'll have graduated. so who knows. hopefully he loves it here.

 

[spider23]

if we start losing kids, I'll worry about it. seems we have a great family atmosphere on the team. guys don't want to leave if they see an opportunity for playing time.

Dji is the only guy I'm concerned with losing this year. just like with Burton, I assume he'll have graduated. so who knows. hopefully he loves it here.

We can just kidnap his dad for ransom if needed.



Of course he is ex Army (?) I think, so I'll leave that to other guys on the board to do.

 

[AnnapSpider]

He has been boiling now for a few weeks. Granted, Danny Hurley is a bit hard to take, but after losing to Uconn, Pitino claimed he does not yell at referees. He considers it cheating to influence the game is such a way. I guess he likes the moral high ground these days. He has been a great coach, I was fully expecting them in the dance this year. But boy oh boy is he salty.

So, is this what you want Mooney to be like? No thank you.

 

[whampas]

So, is this what you want Mooney to be like? No thank you.

I want him to be John Wooden.

 

[spider23]

I want him to be John Wooden.

Though I read somewhere that John Wooden was ahead of his time in the "NIL" game.

 

[Gallipoli]

Face it. College sports has changed forever. This started because legislation passed in California allowing NIL. The SEC and Big 10 are now in favor of this status quo. It will never change.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

The pride of earning a degree has given away to show me the money. My son played D1 soccer
and experienced the NCAA playoffs 2 out 4 years. Soccer was year round like most college sports
and no time for a part time job. Like most athletes, he made his money in the Summer working camps
for his college and travel leagues and high schools. He earned his playing time by practice and hard work.

Now with NIL what happens to that if players underperform? Is it reduced or given to others playing better?
Is it like a guaranteed contract? There obviously is not much loyalty out there based on the Portal. Athletes
should be happy with their choice but going to 3-4 different schools in your career should not be allowed.

 

[8legs1dream]

Its interesting. You do need to also have some balance of buying the most talented guys, vs bringing in guys that actually want to be good teammates and win games. I do think Mooney has done a good job of bringing in guys that are good teammates and playing for each other. Still remember coaching a kid in MS travel, probably the least talented guy on the team but great kid. One game he is just jacking up a shot every time he touches it - so I had a little conversation with him about his shot selection. Seems that his dad offered him $20 if he scored 15 points (I don't think he was ever in double digits). But I do think there may be some pull back at some point when big donors figure out that ROI is not guaranteed.

Also, another angle on this situation with Pitino: You are in a great spot Ryan Soulis.

Did you offer him ten bucks to stop?

 

[spiderman]

I don't endorse multiple transfers, but that's still a very low percentage.

I've known more non-athletes who transferred in college than athletes. giving a kid a scholarship (or NIL) doesn't buy you that kid for 4 years. kids have a right to pursue happiness.

 

[97spiderfan]

Idk when did the transfer without sitting out start? That is recent. Post Covid. And now u can transfer as much as u want without sitting. Multi transfers free agency. So odd to me that the majority of ncaa membership wanted transfer rules but then ran to the courts. Anyway yes the covid year plays role but I think the no sit out makes it a push & my guess is we still see roughly same #s. Tbd.

Yes, the NIL is clearly what is driving the portal. Student athletes are throwing their names into the portal to see how much NIL money they can get. I guess I'm old school and don't think that is what college athletics is supposed to be about.

And to be clear with NIL, we are talking like probably 1-2% of all college athletes are getting this money. Pretty sure the track, tennis, cross country, any of the women's sports are not getting NIL and if they are, it is a pittance, to what a select few men's basketball and football players are getting. Which is why lawsuits like this one are going to start popping up.

Lawsuit with Claim of Unequal Access to NIL Opportunities Raises New Title IX Concerns | Insights | Holland & Knight

A lawsuit puts an Oregon university at the center of a dispute over gender equity in college sports, including with respect to its involvement in name, image and likeness (NIL) benefits.

www.hklaw.com

 

[spiderman]

if cross country becomes a huge revenue sport, then they'll get big NIL money too.

life's not fair. my dad taught me that at a young age. just because I post online doesn't mean I should get paid like Livvy Dunne.

 

[urmite]

if cross country becomes a huge revenue sport, then they'll get big NIL money too.

life's not fair. my dad taught me that at a young age. just because I post online doesn't mean I should get paid like Livvy Dunne.

That depends.
i haven’t seen your instagram…

 

[spider23]

Did you offer him ten bucks to stop?

The funny part is that his dad was operating the clock and about 10 feet away . And it could be hard to secure volunteer clock operators.

 

[urmite]

I don't endorse multiple transfers, but that's still a very low percentage.

I've known more non-athletes who transferred in college than athletes. giving a kid a scholarship (or NIL) doesn't buy you that kid for 4 years. kids have a right to pursue happiness.

I must be way out of touch.

I thought 1714.of 4576 basketball players entered the portal.
Do 37.5% of undergrads transfer schools before graduating in general nowadays?

 

[spiderman]

I must be way out of touch.

I thought 1714.of 4576 basketball players entered the portal.
Do 37.5% of undergrads transfer schools before graduating in general nowadays?

lol, probably not. I've obviously known a lot more non-athletes than athletes.

Richmond has had about 20 kids transfer out the past 10 years. 1 either left for NIL money or just to play at a higher level program ... arguably giving himself a better chance at a pro career. and he already graduated.

NIL isn't exactly killing UR hoops.