OOC
- Thread starter urfan1
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But another year where an at large is basically a lost cause by end of OOC, barring a 16-2 record in league (which means we would be - wait for it - 24-7.) And considering zero road wins, I do not think that is a possibility. Talent level seems better than this to me - like last year was a mess OOC and was (IIRC) 7-6, so only a 1 game improvement? I missed a few games like UNLV so maybe that was the game we played at the peak of the ability, but the road losses to Wichita, BC and UNI were very disappointing and all winnable IMO. Needed minimum one of those for a better feeling coming out of OOC, two for a hit of a chance at an at large. Got none.
I don't come away feeling like the team has solved all or even most of its issues in the OOC play and is gelling to make a big run. Some historical issues like rebounding and interior defense linger, and the 2nd half play has been a frequent concern. Getting King and Quinn going against top flight athletes and finding consistent 3 point shooting threats goods looks is important. I like this team a lot and think they're better than 8-5 suggests, but I question the same issues reoccurring no matter the personnel.
I do feel like the talent is there to do so, perhaps they'll surprise and get a top 4 spot but still a lot of questions.
I don't come away feeling like the team has solved all or even most of its issues in the OOC play and is gelling to make a big run. Some historical issues like rebounding and interior defense linger, and the 2nd half play has been a frequent concern. Getting King and Quinn going against top flight athletes and finding consistent 3 point shooting threats goods looks is important. I like this team a lot and think they're better than 8-5 suggests, but I question the same issues reoccurring no matter the personnel.
I do feel like the talent is there to do so, perhaps they'll surprise and get a top 4 spot but still a lot of questions.
Agree with much of what you say. Again, it seems the biggest factor is coaching. BC. Northern Iowa. Wichita. These were all winnable games, but "ITS HARD TO WIN ON THE ROAD", and "SOMETIMES THE OTHER TEAM JUST OUTPLAYS YOU" and against Wichita and BC "THOSE ARE REALLY GOOD TEAMS" - the last one was members of the boar hyping mid WIchita and BC.
New season, so there is an opportunity to turn it around and roll in A10 play. We have a week to recover our sprains and bruises and illness, so other than DLo, we should have enough to win at home vs Bona.
New season, so there is an opportunity to turn it around and roll in A10 play. We have a week to recover our sprains and bruises and illness, so other than DLo, we should have enough to win at home vs Bona.
Exactly. The world-beating Shockers are 1-4 since they beat us, including a 10-point loss in Wichita to South Dakota State. UNI lost to mighty Toledo right after they beat us. Boston College lost to Loyola of Chicago after they beat us. None of those teams are anything to write home about, but unfortunately, neither are we.
All 3 are decent teams with Kenpom rankings of 90, 108 and 119 and all were on the road where we were predicted to loss.
In addition, we are also currently ranked 7th in the conference by Kenpom and very close behind 3 others. We are much better than what was expect preseason.
This team is a heck of a lot of fun to watch.
A) I like this team, and have been pleasantly surprised by their play
B) I think they should be better than 8-5 but you are what your record is
C) it would be really fun to enter the conference slate with the makings of an at-large resume, I’ve mostly forgotten that feeling.
B) I think they should be better than 8-5 but you are what your record is
C) it would be really fun to enter the conference slate with the makings of an at-large resume, I’ve mostly forgotten that feeling.
Make yourself feel good about being 8-5 with no noteworthy wins all you'd like. But if all we ever do is lose to all the teams we are expected to lose to and beat the ones we are expected to beat, we are an average program, nothing more. I want us to be something more.
South Dakota State was expected to lose to Wichita but won instead. Loyola was expected to lose to Boston College but won instead. UNI had one D1 win when we played them, I think. We're just not good enough.
I think we all know that our OOC performance was terrible.
Agreed that I like this team but we beat nobody and only won the throw away games.
Agreed that I like this team but we beat nobody and only won the throw away games.
Wins:
Losses:
If I had to grade the OOC, it's probably somewhere in the C range. We can clearly play with top-50 level competition in the right environment, but we haven't proven we can beat top-125 level competition on the road, which we'll face a lot of in conference play. I can't see that trend changing, but hope to be surprised.
- vs. VMI (#344 Kenpom, #341 NET) by 18
- vs. Siena (#360 Kenpom, #359 NET) by 42
- Neutral vs. UNLV (#96 Kenpom, #123 NET) by 17
- vs. Queens (#274 Kenpom, #274 NET) by 29
- vs. William & Mary (#318 Kenpom, #317 NET) by 19
- vs. Charlotte (#126 Kenpom, #112 NET) by 8
- vs. Buffalo (#333 Kenpom, #352 NET) by 6
- vs. Lafayette (#345 Kenpom, #347 NET) by 21
Losses:
- at Boston College (#90 Kenpom, #75 NET) by 7
- Neutral vs. Colorado (#25 Kenpom, #30 NET) by 5
- at Wichita State (#119 Kenpom, #107 NET) by 12
- at Northern Iowa (#109 Kenpom, #118 NET) by 5
- Neutral v. Florida (#34 Kenpom, #47 NET) by 9
If I had to grade the OOC, it's probably somewhere in the C range. We can clearly play with top-50 level competition in the right environment, but we haven't proven we can beat top-125 level competition on the road, which we'll face a lot of in conference play. I can't see that trend changing, but hope to be surprised.
You won't be surprised, because this program does something surprising only about once every four or five years.
There are seven teams in the league ahead of us in the NET and we play all of them at home. I'd say at least three have artificially inflated rankings. We'll probably win four of the seven. We play four of them in the road, and we'll probably lose all four.
There are seven teams in the league ahead of us in the NET and we play all of them at home. I'd say at least three have artificially inflated rankings. We'll probably win four of the seven. We play four of them in the road, and we'll probably lose all four.
Squarely with the Spiders. But after 19 years, it's not hard to predict this.
Not sure you can really get an accurate idea of where you stand in your conference based on only OOC games records.
C sounds about right. It was a very average OOC stretch this year. The losses to Colorado and Florida are okay. The wins over the bad teams are expected. We went 2-3 against teams from 75-123 in the NET, so I would say overall that is no better than average. It was not the disaster some are making it, and just going 3-2 against those 5 teams and 9-4 overall would have looked a lot better. So, bottom line is we should have found a way to win one more and didn't get it done. But, it's time for IC play and let's see if we can get off to a good start there.
That’s why we play ooc games, hopefully we learn from those mistakes made in those games.
This viewpoint is one of the major problems in the program and at UR. Small thinking. If you are a real A10 program, you are playing quality OOC games to build your NCAA tournament resume. OOC games are not scrimmages to find yourself as a team. They are opportunities to get yourself in the NCAA conversation.
Agree many variables, unable to get perfect read on where we stand, but it is the only gauge we have at the present.
Far from the only one with things like the NET and Kenpom out there. Or eye test, or just looking at schedules and comparing teams.
We can try Torvik?
T-Rank - Customizable College Basketball Tempo Free Stats - T-Rank
T-Rank College Basketball Ratings and Rankings. And fun.
barttorvik.com
Yep. Certainly way way better than looking at OOC records when everyone is 0-0 IC and saying "we are tied for 10th".We can try Torvik?
T-Rank - Customizable College Basketball Tempo Free Stats - T-Rank
T-Rank College Basketball Ratings and Rankings. And fun.barttorvik.com
Sorry that offends you, but look at the standings on the A-10 site, we are in a 3 way tie for 10th. https://atlantic10.com/standings.aspx?path=mbball
LOL...it doesn't offend me. It's just wrong, that's all. We are tied for 1st with 14 other teams at 0-0 in the A-10 right now. Your link shows exactly that.
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This team was certainly more enjoyable to watch than last years. They play with a good energy but like most Mooney team's the mental toughness that is required to win big games just isn't there.
The OOC is very much on par with what we have come to expect from the Mooney era, very average mid-majorish performance.
I suspect we will finish better than we were predicted to finish but far from any type of performance that will allow us to play in the postseason.
The OOC is very much on par with what we have come to expect from the Mooney era, very average mid-majorish performance.
I suspect we will finish better than we were predicted to finish but far from any type of performance that will allow us to play in the postseason.
8legs1dream
Team Manager
so because we were predicted to lose them it is ok that we lost them all? what a shamefully low bar some of you have
I agree with your first sentence AND probably the rest of your post, but the high energy keeps me believing more than usual. They are definitely more fun to watch. Playing with energy usually leads to confidence and success.
It wouldn't bother me if some fans think this way if I knew that UR didn't. Unfortunately u r right and the same mindset comes from inside the admin and program too. Forget about our preseason A10 predictions, we regularly underperform there so we are allowed to greatly exceed too. And last year was the transitional year. We r supposed to have an advantage at coaching - the dean of A10 coaches. Vet team, we lose King, Bigs, Quinn, Harris. Possibly Dji as a grad transfer. His play will likely give him a few more options. Of course we don't know what is to come with incoming frosh and the transfer portal but next year certainly looks worse.
Still much to be written this year, and every year should have urgency, but to me this was a go for it year even by our standards.
Tiny favorite and HOME = automatic win. Sorry Bonnies.
I see urmite went Torvik while I went previously with kenpom. And Fan1 reference has them tied for 10th. Lots of ways to look at it. And 80fan stated earlier Spider's A10 OCC SOS was 4th at kenpom but ended 7th. Their national rank was 281st so we can see how weak the A10 scheduled. Not just us!We can try Torvik?
T-Rank - Customizable College Basketball Tempo Free Stats - T-Rank
T-Rank College Basketball Ratings and Rankings. And fun.barttorvik.com
Post from after game 7 with some A10 change. Dayton at 39 and now 7 teams between 71 and 105 (UR 101 in 7th) TeamR projects Spiders to finish fourth now at 10.5 wins behind also Bonny and Joe's which appears appropriate watching them play. VCU, UMass and Dukes tied at 10.4.
Maybe in the minority but I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of play from Mooney's team. Didn't have any of those previous year's are they going to blow one against a cupcake. Pretty much put them all away early. And all 5 loses they were the underdog. And beat UNLV as a 3 point dog.
Other than Lange, Skinn, and McKillop some experienced coaches Mooney will go against. Maybe Spiders end up 2nd or 8th? If I remember correctly most pundits said 10th, 11th, 12th etc etc they might finish. I just would like some here not to say if they finish 7th or 8th is was an good coaching job by Mooney. And a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th let us give him credit.
I believe with so many teams presently bunched up by Torvik and kenpom ranking, best opportunity to fairly judge Mooney and see how it plays out. 👍
LOL because as G and Torvik/Kenpom state, it's an W. So I know what we expect from the team. First Mooney test of the year for me. 🤞
Semantics, the league put them in order, i didn't, using what they had to work with, all OOC. The league does not show all teams tied on on first line since no league games have been played. But it is all irrelevant after tomorrow night, since we have the bye we should be in the middle with just IC games ranked.
Completely agree and as you put out our roster is a bunch of senior players, with all of our impactful players being seniors. Shouldn't this even by our very loose standards of when we should be competitive be "the year" we really compete for an at large? But yet, you feel no sense of urgency from Mooney, at all. The program seems satisfied with 8-5 and effectively being eliminated from at large contention at the end of OOC. Not surprised, because we have a thousand excuses (transfer portal and NIL are the new ones) as to why we never have to hold ourselves to some type of standard for success.
The season will be what it will be. Mooney will be back next year and guess what next year will be what it will be and so forth for every season. Hardt will pay us some lip service at the end of the year with some vague reference to a commitment to winning. Anyone who has been a fan of our program for the past decade knows this to be the case. it is of course sad and frustrating as an alum, but it shouldn't be surprising in the least to anyone.
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Hardt and PQ have won. This is right. There really is no expectation other than to hope we are going to pull it together enough in A10 play to be well positioned for an A10 tourney run. This season, the BC game was essentially the bellweather game. We were up big, and just faded. Then we heard how they were an "ACC Team" and had "ACC athletes" so of course the first 15 minutes were fools gold and would have been a monumental upset to actually win the game. Thus the expectations were confirmed. No use getting bothered anymore - though I know some of us still do.
Might show up but respectfully 97 just don't how you can say that from what we have seen so far. Every one of their losses UR was the dog and they even upset UNLV being the line was +3. And I agree they have been enjoyable to watch! For me that being putting away the cupcakes with little stress that was always absent from previous teams.
8legs1dream
Team Manager
Don't forget, we were playing on the road at the infamous Silvio Conte Forum AKA The Temple Of Doom to an absolutely (45%) packed ravenous crowd of crazed Boston College basketball fans. Really tough to walk away with a win in that environment!
