We have a lot of great letter-writing opportunities ahead of us.
Next Coach
- Thread starter spider23
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Directed a comment at you. you didn't answer the comment, though you don't have to.
I meant we as fans need to finish strong, let our voices be heard and try to save our program. Yes, our program, not Mooney's program. The play on the court will be what it will be. I suspect it will present additional evidence of our SOS signal we are sending the administration.
The next coach is the only thing that matters at this point. This team is toast. We can only pray that Hardt will do what obviously needs to be done for a change
Not sure i'm dying to go the Patriot League route but Matt Langel has come in 1st or 2nd in that league for the last 5 years at Colgate. He took a while to get going at Colgate, but, prior to that, he was an assistant at Temple for 5 years. 4 of those years were NCAA bids for the Owls.
Just given 'who we are', Langel is probably a guy that will be on our list.
Just given 'who we are', Langel is probably a guy that will be on our list.
replying to your earlier statement, I don't recall how I felt about the hire 17 years ago. I'm fairly certain I wouldn't have lobbied for a coach with 1 year experience, just like I won't lobby for a guy with 1 winning season in 4 at the Longwood level. once the hiring was done, though, I'm certain I would have supported it.
I've supported our coach and program for a long time. people support in different ways. I understand why people have complained on this board for years, thinking their voices will result in change and their certainty that change is needed. I wasn't calling for change in the down years when I felt certain we wouldn't eat the contract. that made no sense to me.
I'll support the next coach the same way. I believe being vocally critical on a message board or billboard hurts the program. I know many here obviously disagree. but I know from a recruit we offered and wanted that a coach's perceived reputation and job stability is a huge factor, possibly the biggest factor, in a recruit's decision. and I want the best ball players possible in the program.
I think it is past time for a coaching change. I'll support whoever we hire, if we make a change, which I'm still not convinced we will. But I'm not sure that is enough to cure our issues. We have such poor leadership in the athletic department. I have zero confidence the AD and athletic department will fully support the new coach and have an all in for winning mentality. We need more changes that just the coach.
Does this mean that it is better to fool a potential recruit with rose colored lies on a message board? Even though a multitude of evidence doesn't support the happy as clams positioning? I would never be on-board with this in any situation.
If a coach loses a recruit to a message board, then the coach hasn't done his job well. First, coach needed to build a better relationship with the recruit, and second, a good coach will win consistently, which will eliminate most message board dissatisfaction.
The recruiting/publicity issue is part of the reason why I wasn't initially super vocal even once I'd started feeling we needed a change at the top, and that was many years ago. But we've long passed the point where it's clear getting a new coach would do more to help the program than landing any given recruit would.
Exactly SF and Not a, I was very supportive of Mooney and staff - even though had my doubts for a few years before I turned negative. At that point, there is no point to keep being supportive imo. I get sman's stance, and unfortunately he has kind of been correct - the admin not going to can Mooney, so he remains supportive. I just got tired of Mooney years ago, and the fact that he will not change or try to keep up with the times.
Agree with the billboard part, disagree with the message board. MB is a place you can be vocally critical of the team and program. Otherwise we have no recourse.
Fortunately, I really do think longtime supporters of the program and Mooney are turning. Their tone has changed and this has not been a successful season in anyone's eyes. The people who want Mooney gone are no longer just a bunch of "idiots on a message board" (you idiots proved to be right) and it's impossible to not see the systemic problems with our program now. We DO NOT need a billboard at this point and I think a billboard might be the only way Mooney stays.
I am willing to hope that the billboard guys hold off if that is the case. But it just shows how EFFING STUPID the powers that be at Richmond are if they were influenced by the billboard the first time or now. Bunch of thin skinned jabba ivory towered idiots.
I think in some places the billboard can work, as it shows or potentially shows a lot of support for disapproval of a coach.
But in some places, like UR, I think it can backfire because I think at UR they like to think of themselves as the smartest people in the room and they are not going to let the fans tell them what to do or how to operate. So the billboard I think makes them want to keep him to show fans - we run this program, not you.
But in some places, like UR, I think it can backfire because I think at UR they like to think of themselves as the smartest people in the room and they are not going to let the fans tell them what to do or how to operate. So the billboard I think makes them want to keep him to show fans - we run this program, not you.
They sure showed us. If your scoreboard is based on individual accolades, finishing below the preseason polls, and not sniffing the NCAA's (once OK we sniffed them) they got us.
By this logic, they will let jabba spend half a mill on a search comittee that will recommend Nathan Davis and he will proceed to have 5 straight losing seasons, and they will say: See we told you mooney was as good as it gets. Should have kept mooney.
I guess it comes down to timing. when do you think it became lies?
we had the pieces in place after 2018-19.
we were the 2nd best A10 team in 2019-20 at 24-7 and excluding a hypothetical 1st round A10 tournament loss I believe we were dancing.
we were a solid 13-5 despite covid problems before collapsing to the finish line last season.
and we were a projected top A10 team this year.
we're 56-26 the last 3 years. we haven't reached our goals. no question. but we've won a lot of games the past 3 years. this needed to be the year in my mind so I think a change is warranted. but I don't feel I lied at any point. I may have kept quiet about some thoughts at times.
I will say that even if we had made the tournament and were a lock that year it doesn’t change anything for me. 1 appearance in 11 years is also unacceptable.
We have a team of A-10 “all stars” and we really can’t get more out of them?
We have a team of A-10 “all stars” and we really can’t get more out of them?
I didn't mean to imply that you lied. If that is what was received, I apologize.
no offense taken! I just mean I don't feel that I, or likely anyone else who stayed mostly positive on the board, was trying to trick anyone. they can make up their own minds with their interactions and research. but I feel constant repetitive negativeness can "poison" for lack of a better word.
Utterly hilarious that this thread started in November of 2018 and with this statement.
Yes, we keep being a couple years late every couple years. If you think this is funny now, wait until 2030.
It is kind of sad that we can probably find a ton of old threads complaining about Mooney's weaknesses.
It is kind of sad that we can probably find a ton of old threads complaining about Mooney's weaknesses.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
I get that concern. I suspect that in any operation, sports or otherwise, if you have a vocal contingent panning your product or service, you better be paying attention and trying to assuage them. I don't subscribe to the notion that Spider bball is a business btw, I think that's a shallow parallel, but if a recruit isn't coming here due to fan dissatisfaction, that's a pretty strong smoke signal to your AD that you have a problem.
The poison currently inflicting Spider Basketball is coming from inside the Robins Center, not this message board.
But you always have to remember - the expectation here is not winning league titles, conference tourney's, or beating VCU - the expectation UR has set for all athletic programs is to "compete". They user words like "competitive success" or "competitive excellence" - whereas you go to other schools and they say things "compete to win championships" - Davidson, and "Mission - To win conference and national championships" - VCU.
What do I hope UR does at the end of the season - let Mooney go. I don't feel bad for Mooney, I like him, he is a nice guy and had some good early seasons with UR. But I think even he would agree - he didn't win enough when it mattered to keep his job. And he is walking away with a much fatter bank account than when he came and I think he can coach again if he wants to.
What do I think UR will do at the end of the season - keep Mooney, don't extend, and just let his contract run out.
That involves either paying the remainder of his deal or paying the buyout if one exists. Either way - I don't think UR likes the idea of paying someone not to work and will counter that payment with "That is money that could be spent elsewhere in our University for our students".
So Trap, you are saying when Hardt had all the leverage and extended him, he still got a nice buyout? I thought the consensus is that Hardt would have scaled that back since he had all the leverage? Maybe PQ told him to be nice and did the opposite? Who knows.
LOL, of course there's a buyout...have to reward Mooney for the imaginary NCAA bid!
Trap, I'm sorry but this argument is ludicrous. The Universities' annual budget is $310,000,000, Mooney's annual salary is around 1.2 million. Roughly 1/300 of the total university budget.
To put that in perspective, if you make a $100,000 a year, 1/300 of that would be about $333 dollars. You mean to tell me that you wouldn't be will to eat a $333 expense, that was causing you constant headaches and wasn't giving you what you expected it. People act like Mooney's salary is some huge enormous expense that UR can't get out of. It literally is couch cushion change in a hundreds of millions of dollar that is the University of Richmond. If we adopted this same thinking, we would never fire anyone ever at UR if they have a contract. Come on, that is just not reality.
Oh and don't forget, we got a cool 3.3 BILLION dollars sitting in our endowment each year, an endowment that has been growing quite well over the past several years.
Mooney wasn't fired in the past because the decision makers didn't want him to be fired, they believed in him. I think that equation has changed now, I think the belief in him is shattered and suspect we will see a different outcome at the conclusion of this season.
he’s not that capable. While I don’t see any way we don’t owe something if we dismiss Mooney, if he had 4 guaranteed years left at the time we gave him the 2 year extension given the position we were in, it would be incompetence at the highest level.
I agree with your second paragraph above but hope to be proven wrong.
Not sure what to make of the your first paragraph above. I'm not sure of this line in particular, "But I think even he would agree - he didn't win enough when it mattered to keep his job." I don't know Mooney & how that guy thinks or doesn't think on subject matters. All I know is what I've seen on the basketball court with his leadership and choices. To that, his leadership & choices seem illogical and stagnant to me, and they don't seem to be on a trajectory for future success. So maybe he's disappointed but thinks he's done enough to continue. Hard to say what he thinks to and of himself & his bottom line. We're all speculating here, so who knows. Good food for thought you raise. I hope you are right, and I'm wrong.
I would hope not for no buyout but Hardt was able to negotiate a University friendly buyout, when he gave him the extension. Hardt had all the leverage then and remember he said publicly that him and Chris were on the same page regarding the expectations of the program and thus he had better privately made Chris put his money where his mouth was in regards to meeting those expectations.
I agree 97 - UR has the money!!!! But do they want to spend it like that? I don't think so. Also remember - Mooney is our highest paid employee on campus and the first coach we have made this type of commitment to in terms of money and years - so again, I think UR, since they don't care about athletics to make it a priority do not want to 1) Show they were wrong and fire him and pay him and 2) If they do fire him and pay him out (remaining years or buyout) - are they sending a message of Athletics are a priority.
Mooney's contract is not a huge expense that UR can't get out of, but when a University makes decisions in the past based on money and image of putting athletics first (taking years to get football stadium done, postponing basketball facility, cutting sports cause they cost to much to keep and add a women's sport and too many athletes would water-down our student population) - then I have little faith the administration will cut him loose at the end of the season. Especially since he still has a shot to win over 20 games and place 5th-6th in the A10 standings. Our administration will easily sell that as a good season and blow smoke to all of us that we are more successful than the Fordhams, Duquesnes, LaSalles, and George Mason's of our league) and that consistency has gotten us to this point of being a top team (in their minds, not ours) in the A10 under the Mooney regime.
Mooney is causing the die hard fans headaches - but I don't think he is causing Hardt, the President, or the Board headaches. Would they love for him to make the NCAA - of course they would. That would be good for everyone. But do they want to fire him and admit it didn't work and PAY for it as well - I don't think so. Its more an ego, pride, and expectation thing at that standpoint.
I also wonder behind closed doors what the true investment and expectation is. I have a friend who is an athletics employee at another school in the northwest. He once told me this and I wonder if its true with Mooney. He said the AD at his school was very clear to each sport - I expect you to compete and win at the level I invest in you and your team. If I only give you the 5th best resources in the league for soccer, then I only expect you to finish around 5th in the league. There is also the expectation of no off the field troubles - which Mooney has never had, so its a moot point. But compared to other A10 schools - where do you think we rank in terms of investment in our basketball program - and its not just coaches salaries - its everything. Arena, practice facility, travel, resources for the players on the team, etc. Are we top 3 in the league in this investment? Or are we middle of the pack? I wonder if we are middle of the pack and Mooney is just competing at the level they expect given the resources they invest.
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