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It makes perfect sense — what leverage did Mooney have? None. He had zero other better job offers. He was lucky not to be fired after going 25-40 the previous two seasons. Hardt was throwing him a bone to help his recruiting and give him the potential of two more years at $1.3M per — but he would need to earn them.

Hey, if he didn’t want the extension with no buyout he could have rejected it and tried recruiting with only two years left on his deal. Or he could have resigned and taken the offer that was going to pay him more than $1.3M a year to be mediocre. Oh right, it didn’t exist.
 
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your scenario offers nothing.
if he succeeds he gets 2 more years at the same salary? well if he succeeds then he'd get a real extension! or he'd leave for more.
it's just not a realistic scenario. and it's an extension you or I wouldn't sign.
we extended him because we thought it would turn out better than it did.
 
spiderman said:
yeah, no buyout makes absolutely no sense.
JH "here's a 2 year contract extension"
CM "what's in it for me"
JH "nothing"
Click to expand...
You should continue the dialogue to include:
CM "well maybe I'll leave then"
JH "go ahead"
CM "ok well maybe I'll stay then"
JH "fine but I'm still not including a buyout"

Nobody here knows. It's just as plausible that he has no guarantees as that he does.
 
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Only small time schools let their coaches contract run out and not renew them AND only small time schools let contracts dip below 2-3 year mark because of negative recruiting implications. I wish there was somewhere you could see the length of coaches contracts compared to each other.

There is very little to no chance there is no buyout in the contract. Mooney did not have leverage, but he also knows that if Hardt offer him a contract with no guarantee or buyout when fired, and that information leaks - good luck when you try to hire the next coach. What is more likely is that both sides agreed on a number and terms if the school decides to fire him. Likely somewhere in the 500K to 1 million range and probably a sliding scale on when and if they fire him. And maybe it is adjusted as well if he takes another job elsewhere after being fired. But I don't think there would be $0 buyout on the deal and Mooney agrees to it. He can turn that offer down. He can have his agent or someone leak to press that extension was offered but not agreed upon because of this issue and when other coaches hear that - they will hear a school that is tight with their money and doesn't want to invest in their coach. And therefore - you will have some people passing us over in the next coaching search.
 
8legs1dream said:
If we just let his contract run out that will make the rebuild that much more difficult for the next guy.
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And I don't see any reputable coach wanting to come to a place that lets a contract run out.

I think Fordham was about to let Neubauer's contract run out, but even they had to fire him mid-season because they were losing.
 
Trap u r a $$ guy I respect it so I’m glad u r coming around on the buyout. I remember just a year or so ago u debated with me re: buyouts & u didn’t even think buyouts existed on our level & Mooney wouldn’t have one.

soon u will also come around on the outlandish 100k Lunardi contract u predicted Lunardi got here for scheduling consulting.
 
SpiderTrap said:
There is very little to no chance there is no buyout in the contract. Mooney did not have leverage, but he also knows that if Hardt offer him a contract with no guarantee or buyout when fired, and that information leaks - good luck when you try to hire the next coach.
Click to expand...
Well it hasn't leaked in two years, no one here knows and this group has a microscope out looking for anything related to CM and his contract.
 
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SpiderTrap said:
Only small time schools let their coaches contract run out and not renew them AND only small time schools let contracts dip below 2-3 year mark because of negative recruiting implications. I wish there was somewhere you could see the length of coaches contracts compared to each other.

There is very little to no chance there is no buyout in the contract. Mooney did not have leverage, but he also knows that if Hardt offer him a contract with no guarantee or buyout when fired, and that information leaks - good luck when you try to hire the next coach. What is more likely is that both sides agreed on a number and terms if the school decides to fire him. Likely somewhere in the 500K to 1 million range and probably a sliding scale on when and if they fire him. And maybe it is adjusted as well if he takes another job elsewhere after being fired. But I don't think there would be $0 buyout on the deal and Mooney agrees to it. He can turn that offer down. He can have his agent or someone leak to press that extension was offered but not agreed upon because of this issue and when other coaches hear that - they will hear a school that is tight with their money and doesn't want to invest in their coach. And therefore - you will have some people passing us over in the next coaching search.
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Valid points in general, but this was a 15-year head coach coming off his eighth year without making the tournament. I think it would be a pretty easy explanation to the next coaching candidate why there was no buyout. Presumably all his other contracts did have one.
 
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Have we mentioned Lamont Paris of Chatty? Had the youngest team in the nation his first year and basically has gotten progressively better and better ever since. Former assistant at Wisconsin and Akron. His contract pays $250k a year, though he may have gotten some bonuses in the last couple years.

His team this year is 125th in offensive rebounding/180th in defensive, compared with our 311th/222nd. They're 108th in 3-point percentage, compared with our 189th. They're 46th in scoring defense, compared with our 174th. They're 125th in defensive FG%, we are 241st. They are 39th in fewest turnovers, we're 9th.

Haven't watched them play a ton, but they seem to be solid in all phases.

Lamont Paris - Head Coach - Men's Basketball Coaches - University of Tennessee at Chattanooga Athletics

Start Date: April 2017 Prior Experience Wisconsin, Asst. Coach, 2011-17 (Head Coaches Bo Ryan & Greg Gard) Akron, Asst. Coach, 2005-10 (Head Coach Keith Dambrot) Indiana
gomocs.com gomocs.com
 
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Eight Legger said:
Have we mentioned Lamont Paris of Chatty? Had the youngest team in the nation his first year and basically has gotten progressively better and better ever since. Former assistant at Wisconsin and Akron. His contract pays $250k a year, though he may have gotten some bonuses in the last couple years.

His team this year is 125th in offensive rebounding/180th in defensive, compared with our 311th/222nd. They're 108th in 3-point percentage, compared with our 189th. They're 46th in scoring defense, compared with our 174th. They're 125th in defensive FG%, we are 241st. They are 39th in fewest turnovers, we're 9th.

Haven't watched them play a ton, but they seem to be solid in all phases.

Lamont Paris - Head Coach - Men's Basketball Coaches - University of Tennessee at Chattanooga Athletics

Start Date: April 2017 Prior Experience Wisconsin, Asst. Coach, 2011-17 (Head Coaches Bo Ryan & Greg Gard) Akron, Asst. Coach, 2005-10 (Head Coach Keith Dambrot) Indiana
gomocs.com gomocs.com
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good call, thought about him the other night. He could be on list. & what a way to get into NCAAs, but so crushing for Furman and Bob Richey who has been mentioned on here too.

Chattanooga was good when he took over but without knowing the details sounds like had a mini rebuild on his hands and got it done.

A guy I mentioned, sadly like 4 years ago, is Jon Coffman at IPFW. He's done very well considering at a hard place to win, you have to look at some of the situations some coaches are in. Originally an east coast guy went to W&L asst coach a low & mid majors. Last year they struggled but that was after going to stronger Horizon league and now he's got them in 1st place.

Not sure either would necessarily be at top of list but additional considerations. Plenty of options for plenty of interest. Hope we can have the discussion more in depth next week.
 
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GKiller said:
A guy I mentioned, sadly like 4 years ago, is Jon Coffman at IPFW. He's done very well considering at a hard place to win, you have to look at some of the situations some coaches are in. Originally an east coast guy went to W&L asst coach a low & mid majors. Last year they struggled but that was after going to stronger Horizon league and now he's got them in 1st place.
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55% career winning percentage? He'd fit right in! ;)

I honestly don't know much about him, but certainly not blown away by his record...8 years there and he's only been significantly better than .500 in conference play twice.
 
I think guys like Richey from Furman and Paris from Chattanooga may be holding on for bigger jumps in the ranks as the SOCON conference has produced those jumps with success recently.

Look at Forbes at Wake who made the jump from SOCON from ETSU and then look at Virginia Tech and Young coming from Wofford. Both will certainly get raises and extensions at their current schools and might be holding out for P5 jobs given I think the SOCON is a hot place for coach searches.

I wonder about a guy like Casey Alexander at Belmont - he has taken over that program, which was good to begin with, but has kept the momentum going there - but he is a Belmont guy (graduated from Belmont) and the last coach of Belmont - Byrd - coached there for over 30 years, so not sure he would ever leave. But they do have an assistant there who has been for 23 years - Brian Ayers. I wonder if he would garner a look or is he locked in for life at Belmont.
 
Eight Legger said:
Have we mentioned Lamont Paris of Chatty? Had the youngest team in the nation his first year and basically has gotten progressively better and better ever since. Former assistant at Wisconsin and Akron. His contract pays $250k a year, though he may have gotten some bonuses in the last couple years.

His team this year is 125th in offensive rebounding/180th in defensive, compared with our 311th/222nd. They're 108th in 3-point percentage, compared with our 189th. They're 46th in scoring defense, compared with our 174th. They're 125th in defensive FG%, we are 241st. They are 39th in fewest turnovers, we're 9th.

Haven't watched them play a ton, but they seem to be solid in all phases.

Lamont Paris - Head Coach - Men's Basketball Coaches - University of Tennessee at Chattanooga Athletics

Start Date: April 2017 Prior Experience Wisconsin, Asst. Coach, 2011-17 (Head Coaches Bo Ryan & Greg Gard) Akron, Asst. Coach, 2005-10 (Head Coach Keith Dambrot) Indiana
gomocs.com gomocs.com
Click to expand...
I thought you had a different opinion of Chatty on 11/20? ;)

Besides no Chatty coach would ever move up to the A-10...;)
 
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SFspidur said:
55% career winning percentage? He'd fit right in! ;)

I honestly don't know much about him, but certainly not blown away by his record...8 years there and he's only been significantly better than .500 in conference play twice.
Click to expand...

Well if you think 55% is the same at Fort Wayne, or other places like a Longwood only as example, as it is at Richmond then I don't know what to tell you. Those teams also get beat up badly in non conf.

And 6 of those 8 conference years for Coffman are 4th or higher with a couple 1sts.

But yes 1 reason why he's not top of list. But I thought this thread's purpose was mainly to cast a fairly wide net of options out there?? At least that's my motivation.

lastly if you think you're going to get a lower level head coach who has just killed it consistently year after year in conf or out, well they are harder to find. You got a John Becker at Vermont, or a Matt Langel at Colgate, Casey Alexander at Belmont would be there too but I'm not sure we could get him like the other two. There may be a few others idk. Accordingly those guys would all certainly be higher on the list.
 
SpiderTrap said:
I think guys like Richey from Furman and Paris from Chattanooga may be holding on for bigger jumps in the ranks as the SOCON conference has produced those jumps with success recently.

Look at Forbes at Wake who made the jump from SOCON from ETSU and then look at Virginia Tech and Young coming from Wofford. Both will certainly get raises and extensions at their current schools and might be holding out for P5 jobs given I think the SOCON is a hot place for coach searches.

I wonder about a guy like Casey Alexander at Belmont - he has taken over that program, which was good to begin with, but has kept the momentum going there - but he is a Belmont guy (graduated from Belmont) and the last coach of Belmont - Byrd - coached there for over 30 years, so not sure he would ever leave. But they do have an assistant there who has been for 23 years - Brian Ayers. I wonder if he would garner a look or is he locked in for life at Belmont.
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True that some may be waiting. But then you see a guy like Pat Kelsey move from Winthrop to C of C and think, hmm. I'd at least offer one of these guys and see.
 
No doubt we can and should offer these guys, but I got feeling they are pretty hot names and we will probably be put on HOLD when that phone rings while they listen to other calls first.
 
GKiller said:
Well if you think 55% is the same at Fort Wayne, or other places like a Longwood only as example, as it is at Richmond then I don't know what to tell you. Those teams also get beat up badly in non conf.

And 6 of those 8 conference years for Coffman are 4th or higher with a couple 1sts.

But yes 1 reason why he's not top of list. But I thought this thread's purpose was mainly to cast a fairly wide net of options out there?? At least that's my motivation.

lastly if you think you're going to get a lower level head coach who has just killed it consistently year after year in conf or out, well they are harder to find. You got a John Becker at Vermont, or a Matt Langel at Colgate, Casey Alexander at Belmont would be there too but I'm not sure we could get him like the other two. There may be a few others idk. Accordingly those guys would all certainly be higher on the list.
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I do not think 55% is the same...it was just a humorous observation.

Coming in fourth isn't as big an achievement when your conference only has 8 or 9 teams. I think I'm going to need something more than finishing better than 9–7 in conference play only 25% of the time and having a 53% overall conference win percentage. He's had a couple of good seasons, but even among his peer conference schools, his performance is only average.

But again, I'm not familiar with him so all I'm going by is the results I see.
 
What are y'all's thoughts on a solid P6 assistant becoming Spiders' next coach when Moonpie retires? Wink-wink.
 
We would be able to attract a great up and coming mid major coach OR a high end well respected P-6 assistant coach.
 
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I know the type of resume I want to see. If by some miracle we move on from Mooney, I have no idea what type of criteria or influence on Hardt would exist. That does scare me, because he doesn't seem really worried about basketball success or particularly well connected or full of good ideas.
 
I still want our first call to go to Kenny Atkinson. Got to gauge interest at least, while nba guys don’t seem to have a ton of success in college, the original KA just has that IT factor & edge to me, he’s known to develop guys even at nba level. think he would do great if interested.
 
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maybe the guys at coaching changes r coming around to idea of Mooney being gone or a way out...

 
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I nominate Eric Henderson of South Dakota State as coach candidate. Undefeated regular season in league and won tourney as well .
 
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SpiderLaw said:
I nominate Eric Henderson of South Dakota State as coach candidate. Undefeated regular season in league and won tourney as well .
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Impressive run to start his D1 HC career. He also was a rebounder in his day : "Henderson played college basketball at Wayne State College in Nebraska under Greg McDermott where he registered 876 rebounds".

Also like that he was a head coach at the high school level for 5-6 years prior to becoming a college assistant. Not a huge sample size as a D1 HC, but this is the type of resume I like. Will add him to the list along with Wyoming coach.
 
Looks like Tom Crean will be available at the end of the season. Reports on Georgia will let him go at season's end. If your looking for opposite Mooney on the sidelines - this is your guy.
 
SpiderTrap said:
Looks like Tom Crean will be available at the end of the season. Reports on Georgia will let him go at season's end. If your looking for opposite Mooney on the sidelines - this is your guy.
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He seemed like a great candidate, when he was between jobs and talking himself up. When he actually had to coach again, not so much. Pre Georgia, he had me fooled, but I'll take a hard pass now.
 
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I-M-UR said:
What was in it for Mooney? He kept his very lucrative job. .what other options / offers did he have?
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guess I still wasn't clear. he had 2 years remaining. it was suggested that we could extend but have no buyout after the original 2 years. so essentially he'd still have the same 2 years of guaranteed contract with 2 more years at the school's option. you don't sign that. you got nothing.
 
I got a feeling Crean takes a year off, let the Georgia record disappear - if it can, before he re-emerges.

I don't think his style would fit in with our administration. He is very high energy and animated on the sidelines. I would not be surprised if UMASS makes a run at him - would be a big name catch for them.

Another name to watch - Inglesby from Delaware - just won the CAA tourney and heading to the NCAA - his teams have gotten better each year (with exception of COVID short year) he has been there. He has gone from 13 wins to 14 to 17 to 22 (then to 7-8 record in COVID year) to 22 this year and NCAA bid. Also - his top assistant is Bill Phillips - W&M and St. Joes player. Would not be surprised if Ingelsby gets a call, especially if Delaware can look respectable in tourney. Also little fact - Delaware leading scorer - Jameer Nelson JR. Transfer from GW to delaware and now dancing.
 
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I like Inglesby, not too sure about him, but I think he has done a very very good job of filling in his roster when he takes hits. He lost POY 6'5 SG to the pros (that was a head scratcher - seems like the threat of losing covid season pushed him out), lost Mutts to VA tech and now replaced with Jyare Davis - transfer from Providence who was great for them, and basically won out over Dylan Painter ( who we recruited and went to Villanova initially). I guess he doesn't guarantee spots like Mooney. And oh yeah.....we apparently did not recruit Andrew Carr, skilled, skinny, athletic 6'9 guy who likes to scrap, play defense, and block shots.

So yes, I think Inglesby could kick up the recruiting, transfer, roster building game over Mooney for sure.
 
Getting ready for SFSpidur to fleece Inglesby. He's a name...tho like others probably farther down list. I don't like that in 6 years at Delaware he's never finished higher than 4th in conference, but seems to be making some slow incremental progress.
 
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