Duquesne's AD is willing to admit their season is cooked and is looking to next year. Ours is not.
Much higher probability of Mooney retiring than leaving from U of R.
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Right, well who screwed the pooch on that one. Same dude who is keeping Mooney employed?
In my opinion, of what the I think the administration will do - if Mooney just wins 2 more games the rest of the way he is 100% safe next season. St. Louis was a huge win, and i think if they can beat Dayton and/or Bonnies - that will go a long way. It looks like we will end up with 21-22 wins which will put us on the bubble - the NIT Bubble that is - with needing a lot of help in the form of regular season champs winning their conference tourney and likely will need someone other than Davidson to win the A10 tourney.
If we get an NIT bid or Mooney and team make it to the semi-finals or A10 finals - I can see an extension, short - maybe just 2 years - coming his way again. Not saying I agree with it - but that is what I would expect this administration to do.
If we get an NIT bid or Mooney and team make it to the semi-finals or A10 finals - I can see an extension, short - maybe just 2 years - coming his way again. Not saying I agree with it - but that is what I would expect this administration to do.
Agree with all you posted. UR always the bridesmaid; never the bride beyond 2 of 17. Evidently good enough within UR bubble.
If this is indeed the case, it essentially means our entire athletic leadership is making decisions off of meaningless metrics (like number of wins). Any person with google can look up our preseason ranking/expectations, who we actually beat with those 21-22 (ie. Not one single NCAA tournament team).
Also think you are going off of past history with Mooney and not understanding that certain folks with our administration are kind of done with Mooney and over not making the NCAA for the past 11 years.
There was a reasonable argument to be made when we extended Mooney several years ago to let him see out the results from his self-proclaimed "greatest class ever". We did, we now see those results. We have basically nothing returning after this class (except Tyler and willing to bet folks in admin have a sense as to where that may be heading as well).
You could be right, Queally could play his Trump card again and force our hands to keep Mooney, but I think there will be a lot of people with influence in the RC that are now willing to speak up about other options.
I think the only thing the administration will do is keep him, but not extend his contract. I think after a 20 win season - they will be willing to let his contract just run out after next season.
I think at this point firing him and likely paying him $500K or more not to coach, even though that is pocket change to UR - is not something they want to do because that sends a signal they care about athletics, which we know they do not.
I think at this point firing him and likely paying him $500K or more not to coach, even though that is pocket change to UR - is not something they want to do because that sends a signal they care about athletics, which we know they do not.
You are correct 23-24. If they don't fire him this year, he will be around until 23-24 in my opinion.
I think next year team - assuming Burton, Goose, Grace, and Crabtree return will be around .500 and that will be enough to just let the deal run out.
I think there is a better possibility this team wins 2-3 more games or they make semi-finals/finals of A10 tourney and he gets an extension to 24-25 or 25-26 season.
I think next year team - assuming Burton, Goose, Grace, and Crabtree return will be around .500 and that will be enough to just let the deal run out.
I think there is a better possibility this team wins 2-3 more games or they make semi-finals/finals of A10 tourney and he gets an extension to 24-25 or 25-26 season.
Reinforces coach for life, contracts for perpetuity, no NCAA Tournament never ever never.
I think had he finished 7th or worse in A10 and finished with no more than 18 wins - then No brained - even for Hardt. But given we likely finish 5th. And can finish fairly well in last few games and A10 tourney - this administration will do nothing.
if your wanting a chance of Mooney getting fired. Then you better hope we lose next two games and lose first round of A10 tourney. That will give them something to think about.
I don't know what those in charge are thinking in regards to keeping Mooney vs. letting him go.
But if they are more swayed by a swing from a 7th place A10 finish to 5th than they are by a 17 year body of evidence, there is no hope.
Unless we go on a run and make the tourney, the only way to view this season is as a colossal failure and should bring an end to Mooney's time here. I have no faith that they would see things my way though.
But if they are more swayed by a swing from a 7th place A10 finish to 5th than they are by a 17 year body of evidence, there is no hope.
Unless we go on a run and make the tourney, the only way to view this season is as a colossal failure and should bring an end to Mooney's time here. I have no faith that they would see things my way though.
Agreed GoSpidersGo - but your viewing athletics and basketball as a priority, and that is not the case at UR. They see it as secondary to the actual students who don't play sports. Whereas the teams and universities that take it seriously see it as 1 and 1a in terms of importance when compared to the everyday student.
Just like it was said in the great college football movie - the PROGRAM.
They go before some committee because one of the players was caught cheating. And one of the board members says "This is a not a football vocational school, It's an institute for higher learning" and the coach replies "Yeah - but when was the last time 80,000 people showed up to watch a kid do a chemistry experiment".
UR just wants to be competitive so we are competitive and get the average level of exposure. They don't want to take away from the chemistry experiment or act like the basketball game is of equal importance to the chemistry class.
And Mooney is perfect fit for that - he will win more games than he loses. Every so often he will have senior laden teams that have the potential for a run, and we will always be a 4-8th place team in the league. Not as bad as Fordham or Duqesne, but not as good as VCU or Davidson.
Just like it was said in the great college football movie - the PROGRAM.
They go before some committee because one of the players was caught cheating. And one of the board members says "This is a not a football vocational school, It's an institute for higher learning" and the coach replies "Yeah - but when was the last time 80,000 people showed up to watch a kid do a chemistry experiment".
UR just wants to be competitive so we are competitive and get the average level of exposure. They don't want to take away from the chemistry experiment or act like the basketball game is of equal importance to the chemistry class.
And Mooney is perfect fit for that - he will win more games than he loses. Every so often he will have senior laden teams that have the potential for a run, and we will always be a 4-8th place team in the league. Not as bad as Fordham or Duqesne, but not as good as VCU or Davidson.
Get drunk at Club Rouge, do a few lines of coke off a stripper, run over an old lady on the way out, lead police on a 10-mile chase and crash through Hardt's office. Then PQ might be like, "Ok, Chris, after next year, you're gone. Possibly."
Agree. But ironic that the investment has been significant in the bb program, and CM is highest paid university employee. All that for not much success on the national stage. Think about the professors who are highly skilled and make a fraction of what Mooney makes.
One of us needs to take one for the team and get hit by mooneys car.
If any young ladies (or men) have any stories of personal run-ins with Mooney that harbor any Kevin Spacey-esque vibes, now is the time to come forward. We will support you.
I do agree with what you say it is just amazing to think that a decision based on a 17 year coach would be based on a win against St L at home. What sucks about Hardt is that he doesnt make decisions about knowledge of the cbb world or his feeling of whats best for the future of the program, he obviously bases his decision off how the public will preceive the decision. Spineless way to lead.
Whats nuts, and I do agree with you, is that this team was a guarantee to make the dance and supposedly the best team ever. We put all of our marbles in this basket. The future after this year is very very uncertain. Does the Admin/Hardt not take that into consideration when evaluating Mooney and the season. If not, shame on them. They have no business being in their positions.
No one here has changed their mind. This year was suppose to be an all time great for UR basketball (as was last year) and in all of our eyes it is obvious that it has not been. The majority here want him gone and know he should be gone but we also know the history of the admin and how they treat CM with kids gloves.
This is a question I have that I am not sure we will be able to answer - what does UR investment in men's hoops look like compared to other schools in the A10? And to me - investment means everything from salaries of entire staff, travel (charter planes?), practice facilities and arena upgrades, etc. Where do we place in terms of "investment" with other schools? I highly doubt we are #1, but I also doubt we are #9-10.
We of course are investing more in the program than we ever did before as a school, but how does our investment compare to other schools?
Right, it's like they have blinders on and evaluate every season individually, taking nothing else into consideration -- not the entire history of his tenure, not the expectations for that individual season, nothing. Just, 'Oh hey, we won 20 games, great!'
JOC wrote about this recently. I think we were fourth or fifth in spending on MBB, but Duquesne was ahead of us and I suspect it was because the year(s) he analyzed included when they were renovating their arena. But not sure if that factored in.
I figured we would be middle of the pack in investment - somewhere around 4-5. So does that mean the administration only expects a middle of the pack result to match their investment? Could this be the logic they are using to keep Mooney around?
Oh I'm sure they're using that logic, absolutely. "Woe are we, no way could we every expect to do better than the top 4 who are outspending us."
Meanwhile, Mooney's average finish in the A10 in 17 years is like sixth place.
Meanwhile, Mooney's average finish in the A10 in 17 years is like sixth place.
Good points you make in bringing in comparison to other schools. Just to clarify my original post. I was pretty much looking at it as an absolute i.e. only UR. My belief is that over the years with upgrades to RC, a new bb practice facility, private charters, the highest paid employee of the university, and whatever else then these as absolutes show that there have been tremendous dollars sunk into the program without a corresponding payback. When is enough enough when throwing more $ w/out getting the ROI? I will not budge on my belief that in our case, we are not where the ROI is where it needs to be and that the coach is the major problem. There is enough history & body of work to support that statement.
I have no doubt there are those that will point to academic standards and other nebulous justifications, but if this coach can't deliver with this year's team of highly skilled position players, it's the coach.
I understood your post and it makes sense. I agree just internally - our ROI is not where it needs to be. If we just want to finish 5-8th every year - we could probably pay on the low end of A10 coaches and get rid of some charter flights and still make that happen.
And you know my stance on the academic standards justification - you should not be able to use that as an excuse as to why we can't be reaching the tourney on a more routine basis when it is an internal handcuff we have placed on ourselves. The NCAA is not stopping us from admitting basketball players with lower grades, The A10 is not stopping us. We are have put this in place for ourselves, and therefore - can't say its a reason we can't beat these other schools.
Does anyone know - does Men's Hoops at UR break even? I mean with all the $5 dollar seats we market and I don't see a lot of UR Basketball merchandise floating around - do we bring in enough money to cover our expenses? Maybe we do, and maybe the big reason we do is because of NCAA money we get from the A10 for other schools making the tourney instead of us.
And you know my stance on the academic standards justification - you should not be able to use that as an excuse as to why we can't be reaching the tourney on a more routine basis when it is an internal handcuff we have placed on ourselves. The NCAA is not stopping us from admitting basketball players with lower grades, The A10 is not stopping us. We are have put this in place for ourselves, and therefore - can't say its a reason we can't beat these other schools.
Does anyone know - does Men's Hoops at UR break even? I mean with all the $5 dollar seats we market and I don't see a lot of UR Basketball merchandise floating around - do we bring in enough money to cover our expenses? Maybe we do, and maybe the big reason we do is because of NCAA money we get from the A10 for other schools making the tourney instead of us.
Dude we should party
No idea what the annual expenses for the program actually are, but I would surmise at least somewhere between $2.5M and $3M annually, maybe more. Mooney is at $1.3M and all the other staff members combined are probably at least $700K, so there's $2M right there. Factor in recruiting and associated trips, chartering team flights, hotels, medical costs, operations, security everything else, that gets you to final number.
If we sell 6,200 or so tickets for every game (allegedly), I'd guess the average attendee is worth probably $20-$30 per game in revenue (averaging out the high-rollers who buy the suites, season ticket holders and the $5 crowd, plus concessions and merchandise). That gets us somewhere between $1.8M and $2.8M for 15 games. So it's probably close to break even, if my numbers are anywhere close to accurate.
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Your probably right about staff - assume $2 million there. The big unknown is the travel expenses, charters, meals, etc. As well as what do we bring in from attendance since tickets are all over the place in price.
Yeah, I have no idea what we pay to charter planes. A quick look around suggests the charges are based on flight hours and range from $2k-$18k an hour or so, depending upon the size of the plane. Seems like we use larger planes, so I'd assume it's on the higher end there, unless we get a frequency discount. So maybe $40k per flight on average? I don't know. We probably take 10-12 of those a year, so maybe $250k-$400k a year on flights? Seems high, but I'm not sure.
As for the suites, I figure we pull in on average $5k-$10k+ per game for those, and if we sell even 1,000 tickets at $5, those total fans from both extremes average out to about $10-$11 apiece in revenue. Figure everyone else pays somewhere between $15-$25 per game. That's about $1.6M a year for 15 games, then factor in food and merchandise.
As for the suites, I figure we pull in on average $5k-$10k+ per game for those, and if we sell even 1,000 tickets at $5, those total fans from both extremes average out to about $10-$11 apiece in revenue. Figure everyone else pays somewhere between $15-$25 per game. That's about $1.6M a year for 15 games, then factor in food and merchandise.
Total expenses for men's hoops were $4.2 million in 2020–21. That includes salaries, scholarships, operating expenses, etc.
Operating expenses were $650K...that includes game-day expenses, lodging, meals, transportation, uniforms, equipment, officials, etc.
Scholarship expenses should usually be around $1 million...13 x ~$75,000, though higher this year with the super seniors.
Oddly, the report lists total men's team head coach salaries at $1.7 million...if Mooney were responsible for $1.2 million, that would leave only $500K for Huesman, Chemotti, Woodson, Decker, Barrick, and Steve Taylor, which can't be right. Some of Mooney's money must come from a different pot.
Operating expenses were $650K...that includes game-day expenses, lodging, meals, transportation, uniforms, equipment, officials, etc.
Scholarship expenses should usually be around $1 million...13 x ~$75,000, though higher this year with the super seniors.
Oddly, the report lists total men's team head coach salaries at $1.7 million...if Mooney were responsible for $1.2 million, that would leave only $500K for Huesman, Chemotti, Woodson, Decker, Barrick, and Steve Taylor, which can't be right. Some of Mooney's money must come from a different pot.
Ok I don't know what the NCAA tournament shares amount to, but wouldn't winning two games in the tournament pretty much pay for a buyout?
It’s a thin line between two games paying for a buyout and three games paying for an extension
Someone remind folks in the RC that it is a good thing to actually make the NCAA tournament from a financial perspective.
www.sportico.com
Since units are paid out in annual distributions over a rolling six-year period, each one earned during the 2021 tournament will be worth a total of at least $1.68 million for the recipient conferences by the time it is fully paid out in 2027.
March Madness Daily: How Much is an NCAA Tournament Win Worth?
The NCAA uses a unit system to calculate certain aspects of its annual distributions. Units are earned for each March Madness game played.
www.sportico.com
Since units are paid out in annual distributions over a rolling six-year period, each one earned during the 2021 tournament will be worth a total of at least $1.68 million for the recipient conferences by the time it is fully paid out in 2027.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
Someone remind folks in the RC that it is a good thing to actually make the NCAA tournament from a financial perspective.
March Madness Daily: How Much is an NCAA Tournament Win Worth?
The NCAA uses a unit system to calculate certain aspects of its annual distributions. Units are earned for each March Madness game played.
Since units are paid out in annual distributions over a rolling six-year period, each one earned during the 2021 tournament will be worth a total of at least $1.68 million for the recipient conferences by the time it is fully paid out in 2027.
and then there is the "free marketing" that comes from being an upset special darling that first weekend.
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