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Much higher probability of Mooney retiring than leaving from U of R.

UR80sfan

UR80sfan

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Mooney is a much better coach than many people on the board give him credit for. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/richmond/ If you excluded his 1st 2 years, where he inherited an absolute mess of a program, his average SRS per year averages 5.88, which is higher than any coach in the school history. A lot of this has to due to our significantly improved strength of schedule since joining the A10. More recently, over the last 3 years only one team has won more games in the A10 and they were aided by the NCAA player of the year.

Our SAR has averaged higher over the last 3 years than Dick Tarrant’ s best year. 2 years ago we won the most regular season wins in program history, had the highest SRS in program history and should have gone to the NCAA if it was not for Covid. We were also on track to make it last year until 3 Covid breaks hurt our season. I am not saying he is a better coach than Dick Tarrant or Bob Mckillop, who are 2 of the best in history. What I am saying is that there are a lot of metrics for grading a coach and Mooney has done a good job for a program associated with a school with high academic standards.
 
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Metrics - How do conference championships and NCAA appearances rate on your “Mooney is a better coach” scale? I’m guessing not too high. Once every 8 years is near failure and not good enough for ROI in my book.

Everyone has standards. I guess mine are too high. My bad.

Give my regards to CM when you see him.
 
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You could say teams #40-#200 are much stronger today than 40 years ago. More overall athletes? shot clock & three point added? Better athletes spread among more teams?

But I do wonder beyond the big time football conferences (P5) what SRS does it take today to be consistently Top 25% in your conference vs 40 years ago...
 
urmite said:
www.sports-reference.com

Richmond Spiders Men's Basketball Index | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the Richmond Spiders College Basketball History, Stats, Records, Polls, Leaders and More College Basketball Stats at Sports-Reference.com
www.sports-reference.com www.sports-reference.com

So you can sort by SRS and decide for yourself if greater SRS is more successful.

2015-2016 7.28, 1987-1988 3.95
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I loved the 87-88 team, but the reason their SRS is low is because the league they played in was terrible. They would not have won 27 games if they played our current schedule. Peter Woolfolk at 6'5 would not have averaged 9.2 rebounds a game in the A10.
 
I don’t know how Woolfolk would or wouldn’t do in the A10, but what a player. He played way bigger than his height. Classic battles with Navy when David Robinson played there, and Peter went up against him. Talk about rebounding - bring him into practice to let him teach our players. Tremendous respect for his game.
 
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UR80sfan said:
Mooney is a much better coach than many people on the board give him credit for. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/richmond/ If you excluded his 1st 2 years, where he inherited an absolute mess of a program, his average SRS per year averages 5.88, which is higher than any coach in the school history. A lot of this has to due to our significantly improved strength of schedule since joining the A10. More recently, over the last 3 years only one team has won more games in the A10 and they were aided by the NCAA player of the year.

Our SAR has averaged higher over the last 3 years than Dick Tarrant’ s best year. 2 years ago we won the most regular season wins in program history, had the highest SRS in program history and should have gone to the NCAA if it was not for Covid. We were also on track to make it last year until 3 Covid breaks hurt our season. I am not saying he is a better coach than Dick Tarrant or Bob Mckillop, who are 2 of the best in history. What I am saying is that there are a lot of metrics for grading a coach and Mooney has done a good job for a program associated with a school with high academic standards.
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Congratulations, that spin is pretty high level, you are almost as good at it as Mooney. Most competitive fans disagree.

I get a kick out of the comment about excluding his first 2-years. What if I spun it the other way and said "if you exclude the 2-years that Kevin Anderson took him to the NCAA tournament, Mooney's coaching accomplishments/record would be substantially worse." What do you think, or would spinning it that way seem ridiculous?

The remark about Tarrant & McKillop being 2 of the best coaches in history is plainly inaccurate. Now, if you spin it to say that they are 2 of the best 100 coaches in the history of college basketball, then your statement might be true. However, to say that they are 2 of the all-time bests in history, wow. NO.

The Richmond basketball program is a mediocre mess. That isn't just an opinion, objective sports metrics point to the same conclusion. Mooney has certainly succeeded in getting you and others to drink the Kool-Aide. He gets an A+ in spin, doubletalk, and manipulation of decision-makers. And that my friend, is why he is still on the throne.
 
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UR80sfan said:
Mooney is a much better coach than many people on the board give him credit for. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/richmond/ If you excluded his 1st 2 years, where he inherited an absolute mess of a program, his average SRS per year averages 5.88, which is higher than any coach in the school history. A lot of this has to due to our significantly improved strength of schedule since joining the A10. More recently, over the last 3 years only one team has won more games in the A10 and they were aided by the NCAA player of the year.

Our SAR has averaged higher over the last 3 years than Dick Tarrant’ s best year. 2 years ago we won the most regular season wins in program history, had the highest SRS in program history and should have gone to the NCAA if it was not for Covid. We were also on track to make it last year until 3 Covid breaks hurt our season. I am not saying he is a better coach than Dick Tarrant or Bob Mckillop, who are 2 of the best in history. What I am saying is that there are a lot of metrics for grading a coach and Mooney has done a good job for a program associated with a school with high academic standards.
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Well reasoned.
 
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UR80sfan said:
Mooney is a much better coach than many people on the board give him credit for. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/richmond/ If you excluded his 1st 2 years, where he inherited an absolute mess of a program, his average SRS per year averages 5.88, which is higher than any coach in the school history. A lot of this has to due to our significantly improved strength of schedule since joining the A10. More recently, over the last 3 years only one team has won more games in the A10 and they were aided by the NCAA player of the year.

Our SAR has averaged higher over the last 3 years than Dick Tarrant’ s best year. 2 years ago we won the most regular season wins in program history, had the highest SRS in program history and should have gone to the NCAA if it was not for Covid. We were also on track to make it last year until 3 Covid breaks hurt our season. I am not saying he is a better coach than Dick Tarrant or Bob Mckillop, who are 2 of the best in history. What I am saying is that there are a lot of metrics for grading a coach and Mooney has done a good job for a program associated with a school with high academic standards.
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If Mooney cannot win an A10 regular season championship in 16 years,
If he cannot win more than one A10 Tourney Championship in 16 years,
If he cannot, at a minimum, get this talented and experienced team into a conference double bye this season, and
If he cannot get us into the NCAA's in 11 years,, then.......

No amount of cherry picking stats and cherry picking years for measurement justify his retention, if our school is truly serious about being the best we can be in our flagship sport.
 
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UR80sfan said:
I loved the 87-88 team, but the reason their SRS is low is because the league they played in was terrible. They would not have won 27 games if they played our current schedule. Peter Woolfolk at 6'5 would not have averaged 9.2 rebounds a game in the A10.
Click to expand...
My question is “Would the 2015-2016 team go 2-1 vs 1988 Indiana, GA Tech, and Temple?” (SRS about 17, 14, 18)
The 1988 team with SRS about 4 did, Would the 2016 with about 7?

I just feel that SRS is a stat that doesn’t always scale. Between that and comparing teams from different eras, I think it difficult to say the Spider teams from the 80s were terrible.
 
UR80sfan said:
Mooney is a much better coach than many people on the board give him credit for. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/richmond/ If you excluded his 1st 2 years, where he inherited an absolute mess of a program, his average SRS per year averages 5.88, which is higher than any coach in the school history. A lot of this has to due to our significantly improved strength of schedule since joining the A10. More recently, over the last 3 years only one team has won more games in the A10 and they were aided by the NCAA player of the year.

Our SAR has averaged higher over the last 3 years than Dick Tarrant’ s best year. 2 years ago we won the most regular season wins in program history, had the highest SRS in program history and should have gone to the NCAA if it was not for Covid. We were also on track to make it last year until 3 Covid breaks hurt our season. I am not saying he is a better coach than Dick Tarrant or Bob Mckillop, who are 2 of the best in history. What I am saying is that there are a lot of metrics for grading a coach and Mooney has done a good job for a program associated with a school with high academic standards.
Click to expand...
80's love your passion, but cannot imagine the crowd in which you travel if this is the prevailing sentiment. I've been a sports guy most of my life, many of my friends live, eat, breath sports; fair number with UR connections, and fair number that don't have UR connections but have supported UR basketball over most years. People I speak with include former players, refs, and coaches at HS, College and even a few pro level. The perception with most I talk to, (approx 70%) is we're not cutting it. Many refuse games tickets when offered for free whereas they used to seek them out.

If you look hard enough you can find stats to support just about anything.

I understand being positive and I support it, way back when I coached youth ball one season I got handed the "bad news bears" of youth basketball. Beginning of the season we were not beating anybody, not even close. Even with that group it was easy to find reasons to be positive.

But in reality the only real metric that counts is W-L and how that translates to post season opportunities and success.
 
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urfan1 said:
80's love your passion, but cannot imagine the crowd in which you travel if this is the prevailing sentiment. I've been a sports guy most of my life, many of my friends live, eat, breath sports; fair number with UR connections, and fair number that don't have UR connections but have supported UR basketball over most years. People I speak with include former players, refs, and coaches at HS, College and even a few pro level. The perception with most I talk to, (approx 70%) is we're not cutting it. Many refuse games tickets when offered for free whereas they used to seek them out.

If you look hard enough you can find stats to support just about anything.

I understand being positive and I support it, way back when I coached youth ball one season I got handed the "bad news bears" of youth basketball. Beginning of the season we were not beating anybody, not even close. Even with that group it was easy to find reasons to be positive.

But in reality the only real metric that counts is W-L and how that translates to post season opportunities and success.
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Bah Humbug.
 
urmite said:
My question is “Would the 2015-2016 team go 2-1 vs 1988 Indiana, GA Tech, and Temple?” (SRS about 17, 14, 18)
The 1988 team with SRS about 4 did, Would the 2016 with about 7?

I just feel that SRS is a stat that doesn’t always scale. Between that and comparing teams from different eras, I think it difficult to say the Spider teams from the 80s were terrible.
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I never said our 80s team were terrible. We had good teams. I said the conference was bad, which made it easier to win the conference and helped us win more games.

The A10 is currently ranked the 9th best conference and is closer in quality to the ACC currently ranked 7th than the old ECAC/CAA which in 86/87 was ranked 23rd out of 33 conference. If our current team played in the ACC our record would be worse.
 
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Must sit right behind bench. or sit right on the bench to say this. Extension? a million dollars to be .500 coach. are you serious? be somewhat okay but not great.
at VCU might change your mind.
 
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UR80sfan said:
I never said our 80s team were terrible. We had good teams. I said the conference was bad, which made it easier to win the conference and helped us win more games.

The A10 is currently ranked the 9th best conference and is closer in quality to the ACC currently ranked 7th than the old ECAC/CAA which in 86/87 was ranked 23rd out of 33 conference. If our current team played in the ACC our record would be worse.
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Don’t you think it would be reasonable to think UR would win at least one A10 regular season title in the time we have been in there? winning one tournament was good but typically we do not advance far.
 
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712_VT said:
What the hell is SRS? Don’t know and doesn’t matter because it’s not better than an ncaa bid. That is the best way to measure this program and by that measure we suck.
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I kept my post short and simple as the original poster is coming up once again with ridiculous stats to try to make our performance seem acceptable.
 
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I feel like he has started this same type of extension thread nonsense about once every month or two. If Hardt gives Mooney an extension following this season, assuming we don't win the A10 tournament, he should be fired for dereliction of duty.
 
It's kind of demoralizing to fans of this program. I mean the lack of success is bad enough, but then we get PQ insiders feeding us this crap. And the demoralizing part is that I can totally believe that Hardt is getting fed this stuff and either gullible enough to believe it or it is just smoke screen stuff b/c PQ is telling him to extend Mooney. So, the narrative will be - weird dynamic with 5th and 6th year players losing motivation - NOT Mooney's fault. Big time transfer coming in next year - Mooney now understands that mining the portal is important, and that will push him over the top. The renovations, practice facility, loosened academic/admissions, charter flights, 1.3 mil per were just not quite enough. Get ready for it.
 
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Settling for mediocrity is bad enough without being fed a load of processed animal feed that it really is not medocrity you are just not using the correct metric to measure our program. Easy to recognize "mediocrity" when you see it year after year!
 
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And when we aren’t good with the big time transfer the narrative will be that it takes a while to get him acclimated to playing for us.
 
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Can we hang a banner for his SRS? We have lots of room. The few remaining Mooney-phites can glammer onto whatever meaningless statistics over the past month. Unless, Mooney goes out and wins the A-10 tourney and secures an NCAA bid, I think the train is leaving the building and Mooney is gonna be left at the station.

There is no justification for retaining him, Covid gave him a gift wrapped year of 5th and 6th years players to put together a super team, and he failed and literally everyone knows he failed. He has no more cards to play, nothing left to sell for the future. He tied his wagon to this greatest class ever it is failed. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. He is done fooling anyone, except for foolish people, willing to fall for it one more time. There are very few fools left in the building. Congrats, UR80's though, I've got some great land down in Florida, you might be interested in as well.
 
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