Khwan Fore

[Gallipoli]

Interestingly, his stats in every category, except minutes per game and FT% went down this year. Even his FG% went from 50.7% last year to 48% this year. His FT% was still just 65.5%. His PPG of 11.0 was the lowest of the starting 5 this past season. His 3PT% at 27.5% was the lowest of his career.
http://richmondspiders.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=2870

 

[Eight Legger]

Let's not try to paint this as some kind of win for the program,. Come on.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

Yes EL, no sugarcoating this. It's a loss for the team but a major LOSS for CM in not having a major piece of the team buying into what he is selling. Some of us here aren't the only ones noticing no NCAA bids in quite some time.

What's the #1 reason most kids desire to transfer? I would think to get more playing time. Well I don't see anyway KF gets additional minutes where he ends up and for sure less minutes at a P5/6 school that has a good chance of getting to the tourney.

So that brings me to transfer reason #2. A BETTER chance at participating in March Madness. Well the team leader (by seniority) just abandoned ship and don't think others on the team haven't stored that fact away and will expect to be part of a squad this season that performs W-L wise far better than 12-20.

And the option of going pro, seriously I lol at it thinking KF is making a serious mistake if going that route. Well I don't think he had any intention other than transferring. And what CM stated in article is probably what KF told him.

I mean picture this, KF is by all accounts a CLASS kid, CM no doubt is all CLASS himself. I believe it was hard to KF to go in and tell CM he wanted to go another program only. Probably threw in the going pro statement cause he knew CM would counter that "why go, you get 30+ minutes here?" If honest KF would have to tell coach "because I don't see us getting to the tourney."

Thanks for your play Khawn and good luck with everything in life ahead of you!

 

[SpiderTrap]

If we were a team that was 7-8 guys deep, I would not be concerned by the Fore transfer. But given we relied heavily on our starting 5 and Johnson off the bench to provide about 15 minutes - that was about as deep as we went on most nights. So losing a double digit scorer and guy who provided 32 minutes+ plus a night, not to mention was very experienced in Mooney's system - will hurt us next season. It just brings our reliance on the incoming frosh even that more important - and usually when we rely heavily on underclassmen - we do not do well. Case in point - this season - We relied on 1 frosh, 1 RS frosh, and 2 sophs - and came up with 12 wins.

Mooney succeeds when he has a group of upperclassmen who have played together multiple years and he can add in 1-2 underclassmen. Next year - he will have to play probably 3-4 newcomers, or else run the same risk of playing 6 guys a night and see how long that can last.

The future is bright with all the underclassmen and transfer coming in - but its not next season.

 

[97spiderfan]

The future is bright with all the underclassmen and transfer coming in - but its not next season.

Well, at least tanking 2 years in a row, will lead to us getting some high draft picks.

 

[VT4700]

I really do not see why March Madness would have anything to do with Khwan's or any transfer's decision. Who, other than top programs, could guarantee that? And, if he went to a sure thing tourney team, how much playing time would he get?

What if that team makes the tourney and loses its first round game? Would it still be worth it, even if the whole season were filled with inconsistent playing time and maybe or maybe not fitting in with all new guys?

Khwan needs to find the best fit for himself, but worrying about making the tourney should have little to do with the decision. I think he should either find a mid major where he can be the key PG, or maybe end up at a school like Tenn., where he might not start, but can play in a major conference against teams like Ky. and play in a place like Rupp Arena. That might be fun, new, and exciting to him. Who knows? Only he knows exactly what he wants out of his senior year.

I think he felt, like we all do, we had to get taller next year, and he was not beating out Jacob, so it was either stay here with reduced playing time, or see what else is out there. We all loved his positives, but his negatives in relation to our team is he is 6 feet tall and does not shoot well from outside. What do we need to change and improve on next year? We need more height and better outside shooting. I think he realized this when considering playing time. Nothing wrong with his decision and I wish him the best.

 

[Ulla1]

I really do not see why March Madness would have anything to do with Khwan's or any transfer's decision. Who, other than top programs, could guarantee that? And, if he went to a sure thing tourney team, how much playing time would he get?

What if that team makes the tourney and loses its first round game? Would it still be worth it, even if the whole season were filled with inconsistent playing time and maybe or maybe not fitting in with all new guys?

Khwan needs to find the best fit for himself, but worrying about making the tourney should have little to do with the decision. I think he should either find a mid major where he can be the key PG, or maybe end up at a school like Tenn., where he might not start, but can play in a major conference against teams like Ky. and play in a place like Rupp Arena. That might be fun, new, and exciting to him. Who knows? Only he knows exactly what he wants out of his senior year.

I think he felt, like we all do, we had to get taller next year, and he was not beating out Jacob, so it was either stay here with reduced playing time, or see what else is out there. We all loved his positives, but his negatives in relation to our team is he is 6 feet tall and does not shoot well from outside. What do we need to change and improve on next year? We need more height and better outside shooting. I think he realized this when considering playing time. Nothing wrong with his decision and I wish him the best.

Well put. Agree 100%. Might add that he would be a little more than a 3 hour drive from Huntsville, where he is from and has numerous relatives and friends.

 

[spiderman]

I really do not see why March Madness would have anything to do with Khwan's or any transfer's decision.

yup. it's about finding a better opportunity. not hoping for a one week memory.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

After we get boatraced at home by Delaware and Jacksonville State:
SP: "But...but.....we didn't have Khwan Fore."

After Fore transfers out:
SP: "Losing Khwan's no big deal."

 

[VT4700]

But the first two games of the season, we did not know exactly what we had in Jacob. So, I think it is very fair to say we missed Khwan the first few games, but losing him now is not as big a deal.

 

[spiderman]

losing Khwan's a big deal. bigger because it wasn't expected.

I think of him as a graduating senior now. you lose seniors every year. we lose Fore, Friendshuh and Kirby to graduation. that's not brutal compared to other schools. we bring back a lot of scoring.

 

[nathanw19]

I really do not see why March Madness would have anything to do with Khwan's or any transfer's decision. Who, other than top programs, could guarantee that? And, if he went to a sure thing tourney team, how much playing time would he get?

What if that team makes the tourney and loses its first round game? Would it still be worth it, even if the whole season were filled with inconsistent playing time and maybe or maybe not fitting in with all new guys?

Khwan needs to find the best fit for himself, but worrying about making the tourney should have little to do with the decision. I think he should either find a mid major where he can be the key PG, or maybe end up at a school like Tenn., where he might not start, but can play in a major conference against teams like Ky. and play in a place like Rupp Arena. That might be fun, new, and exciting to him. Who knows? Only he knows exactly what he wants out of his senior year.

I think he felt, like we all do, we had to get taller next year, and he was not beating out Jacob, so it was either stay here with reduced playing time, or see what else is out there. We all loved his positives, but his negatives in relation to our team is he is 6 feet tall and does not shoot well from outside. What do we need to change and improve on next year? We need more height and better outside shooting. I think he realized this when considering playing time. Nothing wrong with his decision and I wish him the best.

I’m sorry, but I think this is a lot of mental gymnastics to try to justify KF leaving isn’t a big deal/isn’t an indictment of our current status as a program.

Having a chance to go to the tournament is for sure a big deal. Yes, no one except Kansas, Kentucky, and Duke can guarantee a tournament bid, but there are a number of schools that can provide a much better chance than Richmond (unfortunately). That doesn’t mean I don’t believe and hope Richmond can make the tourney, but I also accept that a team like Tennessee has a better chance going into the season than Richmond.

As for your dismissal of the experience of 1 game and out of the tourney as underwhelming, I also disagree. Having talked to players who have had that experience, they wouldn’t trade it for 30+ minutes on a non-tourney team. I think you are drastically underestimating how exciting the theater and drama of being in the tournament is, and how luring that idea can be when you’ve dreamed about it, never experienced, have come so close in the past, but can’t see a way there with your current team.

As for playing in new arenas like Rupp, I think that would be marginal, but like you said, only KF knows that.

And I can agree to an extent that he looked at the roster and realized his playing time would be squeezed slightly, but the same could be said for everyone who played major minutes last year. That’s what depth does, and I think we all hope that at least 2 new players will be added to the rotation this year (hopefully 3 now that KF is gone). But KF wouldn’t be the only one seeing a reduction, and KF has a skill set unlike anyone else on the squad, it’s not like he was going to drop to 15 minutes a night. I just find it hard to believe that a loss of playing time/role was his only motivation, but agree that it could have factored in.

Just my opinion.

 

[97spiderfan]

And its just not the aura of playing in the NCAA tournament that is the draw. But I think it is more playing on a team and a program where every game matters and their is an excitement because you are realistically competing for an NCAA bid.

When you start a season 3-13 and finish with 12 wins, there is not near the energy level and excitement for the whole course of a season. We as fans experienced this last year and it sucked, but I'm sure it impacts players on a much deeper level. Every player knew by the end of November that the only games that really mattered were going to come in the A-10 tournament in March.

I'm pretty sure that if we would have fielded a competitive team this year that was in contention for meaningful postseason play, Khwan would be back and other players wouldn't be mulling their options as well.

We are at best a .500 team next year right now, unless we bring in an impact player who can play next year in the next month or so.

 

[spiderman]

so with the #1 goal of making the tournament, you'd leave a team that hasn't made the tournament in 7 years for a team that made it twice in those 7 years? I don't see it. you leave all your friends and teammates and join a new crew for one season with no real idea how you fit in and how you'll be used ... for a slim chance to dance?

I wouldn't. but I'd leave if it want a chance to play professionally at the point and if I'd have a chance to play my last season in a system better suited for my abilities at a perceived higher level program.

making the tournament if I did would be a nice bonus though.

 

[Eight Legger]

I would venture a guess that playing in the NCAA tournament is the ultimate goal of almost every Division 1 basketball player. To diminish that reality is just lunacy, in my opinion.

And I don't want to see the narrative changing about how we have a bunch of young talent on the roster, when the narrative has always been "Mooney's teams do well when they have multiple seniors and upperclassmen on the roster."

 

[spiderman]

I'm clearly not being clear. of course he wants to make the tournament. but there's much more to it than that. he's not making this move to make the dance and then hang up his sneakers. I guarantee he wants to play professionally and feels making this move give him the best chance. that's the priority.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

Kwan has gotten better every single year, and other than not having the greatest 3 pt
shooting percentage, he was SOLID for UR. We will miss him regardless who steps up
next year. I am really worried about guard depth. What happens with injury or foul trouble
for Jake? Yes, Jake can break a lot of presses, but what happens if he is not in? One of those
additional scholies needs to be a guard who can play next year.

It is a dream but would love to see Kwan decide to come back, but if he has a UR degree this May,
then I respect his decision to may be find a program closer to home, his family can enjoy seeing him
play. But I do agree this grad program deal has to go away and do not change the year sit out rule
for regular transfers.

 

[97spiderfan]

I find it hard to believe that transferring to a school where he will be playing less time will somehow make him more attractive for professional ball. And if he is transferring to better position himself to play professionally is that not also an indictment on Mooney in that he doesn't think Mooney can best help him to play professionally?

 

[Eight Legger]

yeah, I'm not really buying this "he needs to play PG so that someone will want him at the next level" argument. I'm sure there is a team abroad that would sign him tomorrow. He could show enough tape of himself doing PG things and SG things to make himself attractive. Playing 15 minutes a game at Tennessee as a point guard isn't going to double his contract offers. He wants to win.

 

[spiderman]

I find it hard to believe that transferring to a school where he will be playing less time will somehow make him more attractive for professional ball. And if he is transferring to better position himself to play professionally is that not also an indictment on Mooney in that he doesn't think Mooney can best help him to play professionally?

who says he's going to play less? I believe he'll look for and hopefully find a place that needs his skills. many good teams are losing starting point guards to graduation or transfer.

Mooney can help players play professionally. he has. but Khwan's particular skill set would be better served with the ball in his hands. he should be a point guard who penetrates to finish or dish. that's not our offense, and I don't expect any coach to change an offense for the benefit of one player.

 

[spiderman]

yeah, I'm not really buying this "he needs to play PG so that someone will want him at the next level" argument. I'm sure there is a team abroad that would sign him tomorrow. He could show enough tape of himself doing PG things and SG things to make himself attractive. Playing 15 minutes a game at Tennessee as a point guard isn't going to double his contract offers. He wants to win.

there's no way he chooses Tennessee if he thinks he's going to play 15 mpg there.

 

[spiderjpo]

Losing Khwan does have a negative impact on our team. That said it does now allow Buck to have 30 plus minutes at the 2 guard and even puts the ball in his hands more which is his background from high school when he was a PG. He now no longer is in the role of a 3 or 4 out of necessity. Buck's development during the offseason in his college level ball handling and shooting and Nathan's ability to handle the 4 will dictate how our season goes. Many have also lamented about our size issue with two small guards on the floor together which definitely hurts in switches in the match-up zone. That will no longer be an issue. Time will tell how it all plays out, but this should energize some of our guys in the offseason to know they will have to step up their game with opportunities to make a big impact based on Khwan leaving.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

Maybe he just wants to play on a better team. It could be that simple.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

I really do not see why March Madness would have anything to do with Khwan's or any transfer's decision. Who, other than top programs, could guarantee that?

Of course KF would agree there is no guarantee with what you state above, but is his eyes I believe the guarantee is not participating in March Madness staying with UR for his final year.

Maybe he just wants to play on a better team. It could be that simple.

For sure, which in turn gives him a better chance of playing in the tourney. Also a better team, say in the P5/6 will only reduce his minutes.

 

[MrTbone]

I'm clearly not being clear. of course he wants to make the tournament. but there's much more to it than that. he's not making this move to make the dance and then hang up his sneakers. I guarantee he wants to play professionally and feels making this move give him the best chance. that's the priority.

I don’t think khwan’s chances of playing professionally are significantly improved playing elsewhere. I do think his chances of making the tournament are significantly improved playing elsewhere.

 

[urfan1]

I don’t think khwan’s chances of playing professionally are significantly improved playing elsewhere. I do think his chances of making the tournament are significantly improved playing elsewhere.

Not sure I agree with you, playing a different system can broaden his skill set which has to help his chances at the next level

 

[SpiderK]

I don’t think khwan’s chances of playing professionally are significantly improved playing elsewhere. I do think his chances of making the tournament are significantly improved playing elsewhere.

I agree, he is a very fast and athletic 6’0” (maybe) player that can’t shoot very well. I like him a lot and wish the heck we still had him, but I just don’t see his basketball situation and skills improving that much to be a high level professional player.

 

[Rivercup]

I agree, he is a very fast and athletic 6’0” (maybe) player that can’t shoot very well. I like him a lot and wish the heck we still had him, but I just don’t see his basketball situation and skills improving that much to be a high level professional player.

He could play a couple of years in Europe, but his skill set and size don’t translate to the NBA. I could be wrong but I don’t think so.

 

[Marley13]

How did you feel about Muggsy Bogues?

 

[VT4700]

Muggsy Bogues shot 50% from the field, 44% from 3 point land, 80% at the line and averaged over 14 points and 9 assists a game his senior year. If Khwan had those numbers, his height would be much less of a factor.

 

[Marley13]

I meant how did he do in the NBA. Come on dude. Good dunker but look at his averages.

 

[VT4700]

You must be thinking of someone else. Bogues played 14 years in the NBA and averaged nearly 8 assists a game. He averaged a double-double one year, and had a 6 year stretch where he averaged over 9 points and 9 assists a game.

Over 99% of college players would take that NBA career right now. And, he made over 18 million dollars his career. Imagine what that same career would pay now.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

For his sake, I hope that some of you are right about K. Fore playing pro basketball. I don't see it. Yes, he has exceptional jumping ability. If he can turn that into playing for pay good for him.

There are A LOT of college players who have better skills when it comes to shooting, passing, and ball handling. His defensive fundamentals are not that good either, though he is sometimes able to use athleticism to make defensive plays. Again, if he is able to turn an occasional steal and dunk into playing for pay good for him.

I will add my opinion to the speculation as to why he is leaving.
1) I strongly suspect that he is seeking a program that plays a style of game that could highlight his strengths. In other words a run and gun, full court press style of offense and defense game. I think that he understands that putting his best skills on display more regularly might enhance his profile. He COULD be right.
2) I think that he understands that run and gun (on either end of the court) is not how Richmond plays under Mooney. There is NO reason to believe that Mooney will adapt the team's style of play next year.
3) I think that he understands that next year's team is not going to play in the NCAA tournament. Those of you who think differently have ever right to your opinion, but in the real world next year's team will not go from 12-20 to NCAA bound unless significant new contributors come on board (and at this point we haven't seen evidence of this).

It says something about your program when a featured player (Fore) thinks that he has better opportunities as a grad transfer somewhere else. He COULD be right, but if he doesn't choose wisely, it could be a personal disaster.

 

[SpiderRick]

Maybe he just got tired of mooney's bs

 

[LongTimeLurkerFirstTimePoster]

I will play Rick's game, although not sure what BS a guy who has basically been given 30+ minutes per game for the last 3 years would get.

Maybe he just got tired of being on a small campus, with limited diversity and figures this is the last chance for him to go to a bigger school and to prove to himself that he could play in the SEC or any other P5 school that may offer. I said in an earlier post that 90+% of the posters with the exception of the VT Loon, are from an entirely different generation, how college kids in the 2018 think is vastly different than the Red Sweaters on this board.

by the way, the NCAA could stop the madness by adding one simple rule. If a school takes a Grad Transfer, that scholarship is "used" for two year or when the Grad Transfer receives his Grad degree, which ever happens first.

 

[spider fan]

Don't know all the "politics" of the grad transfer rule but fail to see any redeeming features in it. The system of 4 undergraduate years makes more sense and why it was changed other than somebody in power pushed for it is puzzling?

 

[Ulla1]

Update:

 

[Ulla1]

 

[SpiderTrap]

As mentioned above - don't diminish the drive of someone who wants to play in the NCAA tourney. It is the goal of every D1 player, and to leave a team that had 12 wins last year and will be slightly improved next year - I can't argue with that. You can argue with the grad transfer rule all day long, but I can't fault a kid for wanting to dance and going somewhere that gives him a better shot at doing so.

Playing pro - Fore can easily play pro somewhere in Europe. To be honest - the majority of D1 players, if they look hard enough and put in the work - can find a place to play overseas. The question is - will they make any money and that depends on 2 things. 1) Overall skill 2) Can the college kid get citizenship in a European country. You have to remember that almost every country in Europe has at least 2 leagues, some have 3. So if you want to play and look hard enough, you will find a place to play. Just know there is a difference from playing in the 3rd league in Slovenia to playing in the first division of Spain or France. Look at Josh Duinker - kid hardly played here at UR under Mooney and has been playing in Europe, some in Australia and has had a good career. So I think Fore will find a place to play, and having the NCAA tourney on his resume will only help.

 

[SpiderK]

I see UConn took a Grad Transfer from Duquesne this week. Wonder if Hurley will go after Khwan too?