JMU Postgame Analysis - let's hear everyone's opinions
- Thread starter Stork3
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My thoughts. What I saw last night is the same Spider offense that Coach Mooney has always used- no change-throw the ball around the perimeter with most time not directed at an attack. Then, if no back door, someone goes one-on-one. Throw it into TJ and have him go one-on-one. Meanwhile no one is crashing the boards. No Spider is positioned under the basket for a rebound. If we don't make the shot- that's it- get back on D. The lack or rebounding starts with the style of offense. And- what big man wants to play for the Spiders with that offense? So, we end up with not a very big team, and we get crushed on the boards. I really want to see a different offense some day. It will require a different coach? With that offense, we don't recruit big, physical inside players- and therefore, we get beat badly on the defensive boards too, because we are outsized.
Size is not a problem. Our starting front line size last night is plenty big enough at this level. Physical is a problem, but the real problem is just effort a rebounding. To rebound well you must move constantly while the ball is in the air and you must go get the ball. W do neither. At best we have guys who box out sometimes, but we have no one who rebounds balls outside "their space"-- a person who boxes out on the right side but sees and anticipates the rebound and snatches it on the left side because he the rebound where it was and didn't just wait for it to come to him. Rather, we have guys who in fact do box out lose rebounds because, for example, a guy comes along the baseline, underneath our guy and goes and gets the ball while our guy is still glued to the floor boxing out. I watched the tape of the game- - we box out OK (not great but OK), but we really do not go and get the ball well at all. In fact we were terrible at it. TJ and DT especially appear to have zero rebounding intuition etc. Shots go up and they turn around (boxing out if their man is right there with them) and wait for the rebound!
We have seen 11 years of that now. Same ole damn thing.
Where is Paul?? Hurt again?? He has to be better than DT. Heck I am better than DT. I could shoot a 1000 free throws and never shoot an air ball, much less two in a row!!
I will agree that on defense, it seemed that lack of effort, blocking out, and simply being in position to rebound were the main culprits. But my earlier point still seems valid- no big men that play under the boards translates to both sides of the ball.
This was supposed to be the year. Losing ANO and Josh hurt.
My question is: Can the rebounding really be improved? The stats don't show it based on the scheme we've played since Mooneys been here. Other more knowledgable fans will know
more than me but is it our D scheme that doesn't allow for better rebounding?
The crazy thing is our D is supposed to shut down the three. If we don't see a massive improvement there, why play it when we become more exposed inside to drivers and offensive rebounders.
Like others have said we lost the game on the defensive end, I can only hope and pray we turn it around or were toast. We're already up against some Resistance and its only game one.
My question is: Can the rebounding really be improved? The stats don't show it based on the scheme we've played since Mooneys been here. Other more knowledgable fans will know
more than me but is it our D scheme that doesn't allow for better rebounding?
The crazy thing is our D is supposed to shut down the three. If we don't see a massive improvement there, why play it when we become more exposed inside to drivers and offensive rebounders.
Like others have said we lost the game on the defensive end, I can only hope and pray we turn it around or were toast. We're already up against some Resistance and its only game one.
was not there, did not see the game R but if you are right, disappointing, not like we are starting with all new players, these are veterans and should know our system 100%. glad i live on the first floor.
If nothing else, hopefully this embarrassment will keep any player on the team from talking about their NCAA tournament goal. Their goal needs to be to win a game right now . . .
whether it's the system that hurts rebounding depends on what you mean by system. If it's just the X's and O's of our defense, the system isn't the big issue. If system includes overall philosophy, how we train, how we recruit etc., then system is the problem.
I have heard several folks describe seeing a drill where we cover the hoop to practice rebounding. No one has said any more than that we were doing the drill etc. which is telling. Go watch a Michigan State or Wisconsin run that drill and I guarantee you will be talking about how incredibly intense, rough, and downright brutal those drills are among those teams and how much coaches hold players accountable during the effort. These are all out wars and if you are a defensive player who gives up an offensive rebound,. . . Well let's just say you wouldn't want to be that guy. We totally lack any similar intensity for rebounding and that value system starts on the bench. I have also said this before, you can't teach your team to pass on offensive rebounding and expect them to be a good defensive rebounding team. Rebounding is a mentality and you can't have it on and off, you just have it or you don't.
I have heard several folks describe seeing a drill where we cover the hoop to practice rebounding. No one has said any more than that we were doing the drill etc. which is telling. Go watch a Michigan State or Wisconsin run that drill and I guarantee you will be talking about how incredibly intense, rough, and downright brutal those drills are among those teams and how much coaches hold players accountable during the effort. These are all out wars and if you are a defensive player who gives up an offensive rebound,. . . Well let's just say you wouldn't want to be that guy. We totally lack any similar intensity for rebounding and that value system starts on the bench. I have also said this before, you can't teach your team to pass on offensive rebounding and expect them to be a good defensive rebounding team. Rebounding is a mentality and you can't have it on and off, you just have it or you don't.
Agreed. The Defense, especially perimeter, caused a lot of problems, which led to being out of position on boards.
Right on target. Some technique, some quickness, some intuitiveness, some height and bulk, but the best rebounders want the ball more. It is primarily a mentality.
Mooney on multiple occasions has stated that his system runs on five guys who can dribble, pass, and score. Obviously, he doesn't have all the pieces to make his system run well. So why doesn't he adjust to the players and their strengths?!?!
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
"Only one game". Right you are, but it's the same bad stuff over and over again, and it gets frustrating. Honestly, I didn't see much emotion from many of our guys on Friday. The real shame was there was l lot of emotion from a very very nice crowd, hate to see that wasted. Mooney said that offense wasn't a problem, the defense was. Yet when we get to crunch time, 4 minutes to go, nobody could make anything. So Cline got into foul trouble, what else is new? He played 22 minutes and wound up with 3 fouls. I said it last year, forget the fouls, let him play. He's a rhythm player, taking him out every change of possession kills his rhythm. Let him play, Mooney, his pluses far outweigh his minuses. . For Cline, 30 minutes or 5 fouls, whichever comes first. Period.
We know Mooney's philosophy on seniors, but if this team wants to win, two of the seniors need not to start, and Taylor needs to go deep on the bench. This is his 5th year, he's not going to get better now, sorry.
We know Mooney's philosophy on seniors, but if this team wants to win, two of the seniors need not to start, and Taylor needs to go deep on the bench. This is his 5th year, he's not going to get better now, sorry.
Offense wasn't really our problem even though we missed shots down the stretch and also missed 10 FTs. 75 points for us against a zone D most of the game was actually good and we had plenty of chances in 2nd half to get the lead up to double digits. Our D giving up 22 2nd chance points and not sticking to a couple hot shooters were the issue.
would wager that we could find this exact thread every year for the past 5 or so years, verbatim
I think we see this last year where Cline gets early foul then sits half game but has double figure points. I think airball on FT is bad and DT should not be so proud and shoot underhand like Louisville player does. Coach should say this is how to do it or maybe you want to sit more. exciting year I think with this now.
I would note that Cline did get two quick fouls, but he did come back later, and played a number of minutes in first half, without another foul. Unfortunately, in second half, he picked up quick 3rd foul. But CM, gambled, and played Cline, even with foul problems.
This team has a couple of talented players who are playing hard. The rest, may be talented, but they are just standing around.
This team has a couple of talented players who are playing hard. The rest, may be talented, but they are just standing around.
Yet again, CM is badly outcoached in the last 6 minutes. JMU had no answer for Allen but UR never got him the ball anywhere near the paint in the last minutes. CM is at best average and, thus UR basketball will remain average or slightly above. If NIT is the goal, he is the man.
The Trap is back! And the trap jumps at the chance to respond to a thread that asks for an opinion. So here it goes (and its not all negative as you would expect).
1) This game came down to rebounding and defense. Giving up 16 offensive rebounds to any team will put us behind the 8 ball. I have said it a million times - I never expect us to be a great rebounding team. BUT - we need to limit offensive rebounds to around 10 a game. And defense - Mooney's quote after the game was spot on. We did not disrupt JMU at all - they were able to play with good flow and were not confused at all.
2) Wood - I think he is the X-Factor coming into the season, and against JMU - he was disappointing. 4 fouls, 16 minutes, and 1 rebound for 3 points. We don't need him to be a star, but against better competition, no Stetson - we will need him to provide a spark off the bench. I am thinking 8 points, maybe 4 rebounds a night would be good production off the bench .
3) Its only 1 game. We have to hope now JMU finishes in the top 2 of the CAA and this will not show up as a bad loss. I think this also adds some pressure to win 1 game in Las Vegas. Being 1-1 right now, and assuming we beat Wake and Bethume heading into Vegas that puts us at 3-1. Coming home 3-3 would be tough with games upcoming against Florida, Northern Iowa, ODU, and Texas Tech. So lets not jump off the cliff just yet - there is a lot of schedule left to makeup for this loss.
1) This game came down to rebounding and defense. Giving up 16 offensive rebounds to any team will put us behind the 8 ball. I have said it a million times - I never expect us to be a great rebounding team. BUT - we need to limit offensive rebounds to around 10 a game. And defense - Mooney's quote after the game was spot on. We did not disrupt JMU at all - they were able to play with good flow and were not confused at all.
2) Wood - I think he is the X-Factor coming into the season, and against JMU - he was disappointing. 4 fouls, 16 minutes, and 1 rebound for 3 points. We don't need him to be a star, but against better competition, no Stetson - we will need him to provide a spark off the bench. I am thinking 8 points, maybe 4 rebounds a night would be good production off the bench .
3) Its only 1 game. We have to hope now JMU finishes in the top 2 of the CAA and this will not show up as a bad loss. I think this also adds some pressure to win 1 game in Las Vegas. Being 1-1 right now, and assuming we beat Wake and Bethume heading into Vegas that puts us at 3-1. Coming home 3-3 would be tough with games upcoming against Florida, Northern Iowa, ODU, and Texas Tech. So lets not jump off the cliff just yet - there is a lot of schedule left to makeup for this loss.
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