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JMU Postgame Analysis - let's hear everyone's opinions

Stork3

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Feb 23, 2011
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Now that the doggone thing is over, here are my unqualified opinions:

1 - JMU is good. They were taller, shot better, rebounded MUCH better, and WANTED this win worse than we did. They were well coached. Missing one of their better players tonight, they looked like they will be an NCAA or NIT team in March. Let's not throw in the towel yet, fellow Spiders - JMU is really good.

2 - It disturbed me that their players seem to be better than ours. We should be able to out-recruit them.

3 - We shot blanks from outside for most of the game. They score three, we score two... you do the math...

4 - They had four players in double figures. Shot well all night.

5 - Pay attention, Coach Mooney. When we are down only by 4 points with 3:09 left, and Trey and Deion are on the court together, we will NOT win. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result." Putting TJ and Khwan in when we are down 10 is too late.

6 - William and Mary beat N.C. State in Raleigh tonight - and had a rebounding edge of 42-38. If they can rebound against the Wolfpack, then why can't the Spiders.......
 
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I can't decide whether we did a crap job defending the 3 pt arc, or that the Barneys were just incredibly hot. I don't recall any other opposing team in recent memory hitting almost 50% from 3 pt range.

Our rebounding was HORRIBLE, but I have come to expect that.

TJC had a poor game, he got into quick foul trouble, and was behind the curve the rest of the evening.

Wood very average, but looked lost on defense, I was expecting more from him.

Kwan Fore is going to be a special player, his dunk was AMAZING!

We better hope that JMU wins the CAA and goes to the NCAAs. I thought they were an OK team but they seemed to want it more than our guys, I feel bad that we performed so poorly on Dick Tarrant night.

My overall feeling is that we have some talent, but we really lack grit and killer instinct. I hope this one game is not indicative of the entire season.
 
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JMU definitely played well and wanted it more, that was very clear. They knocked down a bunch of really tough shots all night. Curry is a really nice player. JMU's guards were significantly better than us. They could create their own shot and knock down 3 with a hand in their face. So, I give them credit for there effort.

My takeaway is that we missed ANO really bad tonight. We got flat out pushed around inside on defensive glass. It was really pathetic. We allowed some mediocre interior players for JMU to have career nights against us and exert there will repeatedly against us. And we are supposed to have one of our deepest frontcourts every. Outside of Terry Allen, they got owned by JMU. Not the way you want to start the season.
 
When you look at Tarrant's teams on the video screen during the halftime court naming you could see UR players that were good in many aspects of the game-toughness,quickness,rebounding,defense,shooting.Many of Mooney's players are 1 dimensional,if at all and we don't have much depth.Fore needs to be given the baton which K0 left behind.We miss a distributor who made defenses collapse for our point to get an easy feed.Buckle up.Stetson will make us feel good on Sunday but Wake will likely have us for lunch.
 
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Fore looks really good, he needs to start and I think he will soon. TA looks extremely good. JMU actually looked good to, we have to give them some credit. If they can shoot like that all season they are going to be really good.

We haven't allowed 87 points in a game in over two years. We had the lowest defensive efficiency we have had in the past two years. This is one of the worst defensive performances of any Mooney team ever. We have been an elite 3pt defensive team the past 2 years (16th best and 9th best), allowing only 30% on average. We have sacrificed our rebounding in the past to take away the 3pt shot, and it has worked out pretty well. We can't allow so many open 3s and also not rebound, we have to do at least one. Our personnel losses seem to have had an extreme impact on our defense.

On the other hand our offensive efficiency was good. Over the past two years we have only had a higher offensive efficiency 14 out of our 68 games. We knew what we were going to have in SDJ, TC and TA on offense, and Fore looks like he is going to be another in a long line of top tier Richmond guards. Our personnel losses seem to have not had an impact on our offense.

It is hard to know how good the team is after one game, we will know a bit more on Sunday after we play Stetson, and a bit more on Wednesday when we play Wake. I am not going to give up on this team until we are knocked out of the A10 or post season tournament. If we can maintain our offense and get our defense back on track we will be in the NCAAs.
 
Two things. Lack of defensive rebounds. Too passive all game. Terry Allen is a stud. Like the fire in his belly but don't knock out an official deservedly or not.
 
I'm not sure how badly we looked individually on defense, but on all aspects of defense, perimeter shooting, driving, rebounding all of our players looked like they had never played together before.

With so many new parts, you expect some of that but not like that. Fortunately that may improve each game, but will it happen in time?

JMU's D2 transfer Brown (who averaged 20 points, 10 rebounds in D2) was a complete unknown as to how he would translate to D1, but tonight appeared better than Highpoint's Brown last season.

On a different topic, anyone see W&M 85 NC State 68?
 
Rebounding is about effort, desire and hustle. Jmu pushed us around in the paint and they simply wanted the ball more than we did.
 
JMU appears to be a very good team. That said, this was a flat out embarrassment. We should NEVER allow anyone to score 87 points on our "vaunted" defense at home. For God's sake. Pathetic. As hot As JMU was shooting the ball, they benefited even more when they missed, because we never boxed out and they got easy put backs on which we also fouled them about 6 times.

I'm sure glad we emphasized rebounding so much this fall. If we hadn't, they would have outbounded us by 50.
 
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JMU made everything they threw up from 3pt line, but main reason for the loss was we were out rebounded by 17 by a bunch of slow white guys. I see us struggling to be .500 this year.
 
1. TA was excellent - can't recall ever having a UR player who can dominate in the post, drive to the hoop, hit a jumper and lead the fast break. On top of all that our best rebounder and a very good defender. Going to be a lot of fun to watch this year. i am worried about him playing 38+ physical minutes a year, that is a lot of wear and tear over a full season. If I'm not mistaken his last points were at the 9 minute mark - that can't happen. He's got to get the ball, gaurds have to get him the ball, and Mooney has to call plays to get him the ball. They did start doubling him down the stretch - both he and the other players are going to need to play out of that effectively because he is going to see a lot of that this year.

2. Rebounding issues are clear, and if we are a worse rebounding team than last year we are in for a long year (Wake big guy had 21 and 17 in the opener). Really scary thought - who is going to rebound next year? We graduate TA, TD, DT meaning our proven front court players will be TJ and MW with PF and GG behind - do we need a grad transfer big guy next year?

3. A couple of defenses lapses led to open shots, but they hit a lot of very tough contested 3s (and 2s) that they would not hit if we played again tomorrow. I am hoping and thinking that we will not let up 85 again this year and will average well under 40% for 3pt defense. Because our big 3 are so important I would double TJs man if in the post almost every play to protect TJ otherwise I'm afraid quick foul trouble will be the norm and not the exception.

4. What depth? An 8 man rotation is not depth, 3 guards for 2 spots and 5 forwards for 3 spots, when one starts at the guard, is not depth. Loss of ANO, JJ and Kadeem is big.

5. Speaking of which, they announced JJs dismissal from team during warm ups. I hope and believe they told team earlier but probably that morning or day before at earliest. Pure speculation, but thats got to be a distraction or at least bring the team down some - perhaps a reason for a flat performance with mostly flat energy?
 
TD, you may be on to something with JJ's dismissal. He was a popular guy and his lost might have greatly upset the team. OSC
 
have only one thought, THE WINDOW TO THE LEDGE IS NOW OFFICIALLY OPEN

at least, for now, it is football season
 
We can't continue to give DT the minutes he gets. After 4+ years he is not going to suddenly turn around and become a complete player. I know it's one game and I also know Out of Conference games, especially against the few good OOC teams we play, are vital to our getting our power rating up. That said start playing Wood and the freshmen more is our only hope for the future. DT and frankly TD are not going to carry this team forward.
 
No question, that this was not the Spider team I expected to see. We lack depth. JMU was down a player, and they still had a deeper rotation. Absolutely, no sign that any emphasis had been placed in practice, on rebounding. Spiders appeared to be flatfooted statues, hoping the ball came their way. While JMU, who didn't have a lot of wide bodies, or particular height, anticipated the ball, and went after it. Where were Julius and Paul? We were decimated in rebounding, and CM didn't feel confident playing our tallest forward?

I'm sure we'll dominate Stetson, they're an anemic program. But, will this team prove to be better than they appeared last night? I'm not so sure. Aside from Terry, no one else seemed to come to play. SDJ had a decent first half, but that was about it for kudos.

Will be interesting to see how JMU fares against West Virginia.
 
MW needs to look to shoot more. He has a great looking jump shot and i think could be a double didget scorer for us. I would like to see more time for Fore and Marshal Wood. Anyone know if Fore can consistently make open 3 point shots? If so, I think it will become hard for CM to keep him out of the starting line up.
 
MW needs to look to shoot more. He has a great looking jump shot and i think could be a double didget scorer for us. I would like to see more time for Fore and Marshal Wood. Anyone know if Fore can consistently make open 3 point shots? If so, I think it will become hard for CM to keep him out of the starting line up.
I like a lot of what Fore brings to the table and agree that he needs to be developed quickly. BUT, he looked very uncomfortable shooting. Makes me strongly suspect that shooting is not his strong suit.
 
Thought Brown was a JUCO transfer. Anyway, I expected more from MW, especially when it came to rebounding given his height and athleticism.
 
Been to maybe 4 practices. Three things observed each time. Wood has to be constantly coached on defense. Looks lost in practice and looked out of place last night. Fore does not shoot well from outside but has the quickness to go inside whenever he wants.
And maybe the most impactful observation. They do practice rebounding with basket covered. But I have not seen any coaching done on boxing out or how to position yourself. I am not sure if that is done outside of practice one on one but not during rebounding "drills"
I also have a question for the group or maybe coach fezz. I don't think your reactions are the same with the basket covered because you know every shoot is a miss so you are losing the reaction training on positioning and how you anticipate misses in real play situations.
Finally and maybe mostly.....our players no longer show me that they want the ball more than the opponent. This is an ongoing and long standing epidemic. Didn't just start last night!
 
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Completely disappointed! Don't care how good JMU played or possibly how good their resume will be by the end of the year. A WIN was the only option to be checked for the Spiders.

If underperforming as a team continues, I believe KF, MW, JP, JJ, and even PF need to get extended time on the court if going somewhere in March doesn't seem possible. We all know the two seniors who these guys will taking minutes from. Someone needs to tell CM a team can't be ahead 0 to -4 three minutes into the game.
 
We can't continue to give DT the minutes he gets. After 4+ years he is not going to suddenly turn around and become a complete player. I know it's one game and I also know Out of Conference games, especially against the few good OOC teams we play, are vital to our getting our power rating up. That said start playing Wood and the freshmen more is our only hope for the future. DT and frankly TD are not going to carry this team forward.

What did you see from Wood that makes you think we would do better if he started? He was a mess on defense, bad rebounding, leaving his man open, fouling the 3 point shooter, etc. Offensively we were actually fine last night, more efficient than 80% of the games we have played over the last two years. However, last night was the WORST game defensively in over two years for us in terms of defensive efficiency. The slight bump in offense we get from Wood is not worth the huge drop in defense over Deion.
 
Guys I think we may have to bring expectations back that's where I'm coming from. I just don't see the same quality we had on our last two ncaa teams. I dont think anyone can argue with that. I thought defense was supposed to be our strong suit his year. Unacceptable to have two non scoring players on the court if it doesn't lead to a big bump in defense. It's just one game but we already know the rebounding issues and they have been here and are not going away. I will be looking to see if there are quick improvements on D otherwise a long season. Hard to figure with three seniors on the court
 
What defense from Deon?

Wood didn't pull down a single defensive rebound in 16 minutes on the court, Deion at least pulled down 3, and had a steal, and didn't foul jump shooters in his 23 minutes.
 
What did you see from Wood that makes you think we would do better if he started? He was a mess on defense, bad rebounding, leaving his man open, fouling the 3 point shooter, etc. Offensively we were actually fine last night, more efficient than 80% of the games we have played over the last two years. However, last night was the WORST game defensively in over two years for us in terms of defensive efficiency. The slight bump in offense we get from Wood is not worth the huge drop in defense over Deion.

I think what what I-M-UR is stating like I did is looking to the future as a whole. Yes, team was offensively efficient last night (TA was monster but can't expect it to happen every game) but with no help from DT and TD. It seems apparent unfortunately that scenario isn't changing and all we can go by with MW is one game so let's give him and others a chance.

Where was DT and TD's defensive prowess and rebounding last night? TA had the only blocked shot of the night. Hypothetically UR could have a great defensive game next time up but the Big 3 don't score enough and 54-52 loss happens cause all we needed was some other starters to chip in with offense. You're probably to young to know this, but I go by Al Davis of the Raiders motto, "Just Win Baby."
 
The problem is expectations. Ours on this board are generally unrealistic. The goals we all have - - consistently competitive (top half) in A-10 with occasional seasons of greatness are fine and appropriate. The problem is consistently thinking "this year" is going to be one of the great ones. That's especially true this year!!

There was and is absolutely no reason to think we'd be an especially good team this year. We lost our best player and the rest of the core group has proven, over and over again unfortunately, this is who they are. It started basically 2 years ago when Ced went down and the ship ran aground without him. Big expectations last year led to repeated disappointment and we got a huge break from schedule in that we "coulda been a contender" has we simply taken care of some very winnable games.

This year we had big expectations again - - based on what? Outside of some stretches from TA in the past and some even more infrequent ones from SDJ, no one on this team has shown they are a quality player at this level. And before the TJ fan club comes after me, lets remember he was a lower level recruit - - perhaps for reason! He showed some stuff on offense last year but never showed her could be even an average defender and he has never rebounded at this level. Our defender and rebounder for this spot started last night for an ACC team against a Top 10 opponent - - so how is it we can really expect to be better without even that option). Can TJ be a player on a good A-10 team - - sure he can. He's be great getting 22 minutes a night bringing some offense to a team's second unit and playing meaningful minutes on nights he's on and the matchups are OK. In other words, he's a great role player on a good team, while on our team he's our 2nd option on offense and plays too many minutes against starters, exposing his defense and rebounding.

DT - - look we need to just say this - - he is simply not very good. He may give effort etc. but what does he bring really at all. He's a decent defender for us because in the line-up we started last night we have 2 below average defenders (TJ and SDJ) and another just average one (TA), so he ends up being our 2nd defender. But is he any kind of lock down guy that you could put on another teams stud and shut him down? Does he eliminate any others folks mistakes with blocks etc? Does he really provide a physical presence (other than by comparison to our own guys) He's a nice solid system defender, no more. And he doesn't rebound from a key rebounder position. If you are absent offensively and just good defensively at power spot, you better be a beast on the boards! Best role for him on a good team - - 8th or 9th man giving you very limited minutes on a regular basis who maybe steps in with some solid minutes on nights your starter gets in foul trouble etc.

TD offers a bit more, both offensively where he can slash better and defensively as well, but he's just a better version of a limited player. More role for him on a good team - - especially as an energy guy with the 2 nd team and maybe even as a 25 minute starter surrounded by good, complete players.

SDJ - can be part of a good team. Offers some good stuff on offense and is average enough on defense that you can play him. If he's your 4th best starter, you have the making of a good team.

TA - - can play for anyone. Can be a main option on offense and strong enough rebounder to more than hold his own - - especially, I suspect, if surrounded by other rebounders. Defensively, he won't be a lock down guy, but wont hurt you either. Best role is actually as a #2 on a real good team, but him being our number 1 wont be the reason we might struggle this year!

Given all of that, why do we think we'll be a good team challenging for the A-10 title and an NCAA at-large?
 
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On a different topic about last night, I received this note from SpiderRam, a ram nation poster, about the atmosphere at last night's game.

"Mite-
I tried to get on the SpiderNation board today but can't log on. Please give them this message if you will. I saw Ulla posted a thread about thoughts after the game. I know everyone is upset about the loss to JMU LAST NIGHT BUT I WANTED TO PASS ALONG A POSITIVE!

Sold my UR tickets to a man & his son who is looking to attend UR, for football. A very fine family. His wife was with me at the VCU game. As soon as they arrived at the Robins Center we started receiving text messages about how awesome it was. All night long they texted about the fantastic atmosphere. Over & over they praised the school & the team. The dad also texted that his son HAS GOT TO GO TO UR!

I'm telling you this to say STRONG WORK SPIDER FANS. Thanks for showing up & providing a great experience for my friends."
 
I think what what I-M-UR is stating like I did is looking to the future as a whole. Yes, team was offensively efficient last night (TA was monster but can't expect it to happen every game) but with no help from DT and TD. It seems apparent unfortunately that scenario isn't changing and all we can go by with MW is one game so let's give him and others a chance.

Where was DT and TD's defensive prowess and rebounding last night? TA had the only blocked shot of the night. Hypothetically UR could have a great defensive game next time up but the Big 3 don't score enough and 54-52 loss happens cause all we needed was some other starters to chip in with offense. You're probably to young to know this, but I go by Al Davis of the Raiders motto, "Just Win Baby."

TD was actually not horrible efficiency wise, he shot 40% from 2 and 33% from 3. He was fine, although he did miss his free throws. In fact ALL of our players, with the exception of Deion, were efficient last night, not just TA.

Player - 2pt% - 3pt% - eFG%
TA : 71% - 0% - 67%
TJC: 71% - 0% - 56%
SDJ: 50% - 29% - 46%
Fore: 75% - N/A - 75%
JP: N/A - 50% - 75%
TD: 40% - 33% - 44%
DT: N/A - 0% - 0%
MW: 0% - 100% - 75%

National Average: 48% - 31% - 48%

Our offense looks good. Our defense is bad. Fore especially needs more playing time, he should be taking some of Deion's minutes with TD shifting up to the 3. We will need to see some more games from MW, Fore and JP to know what we have, but Wood had 0 defensive rebounds in 16 minutes. He does not look like the answer to our rebounding problem. SDJ was tied for 2nd most defensive rebounds on our team.

At one point I believe Mooney had SDJ, KF and JP in at the same time. Mooney is trying new things, but it looks like right now what we really need to work on is defense.

- Don't leave people open on the 3pt line!
- Box out!
 
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TD was actually not horrible efficiency wise, he shot 40% from 2 and 33% from 3. He was fine, although he did miss his free throws. In fact ALL of our players, with the exception of Deion, were efficient last night, not just TA.

Player - 2pt% - 3pt% - eFG%
TA : 71% - 0% - 67%
TJC: 71% - 0% - 56%
SDJ: 50% - 29% - 46%
Fore: 75% - N/A - 75%
JP: N/A - 50% - 75%
TD: 40% - 33% - 44%
DT: N/A - 0% - 0%
MW: 0% - 100% - 75%

National Average: 48% - 31% - 48%

Our offense looks good. Our defense is bad. Fore especially needs more playing time, he should be taking some of Deion's minutes with TD shifting up to the 3. We will need to see some more games from MW, Fore and JP to know what we have, but Wood had 0 defensive rebounds in 16 minutes. He does not look like the answer to our rebounding problem. SDJ was tied for 2nd most defensive rebounds on our team.

At one point I believe Mooney had SDJ, KF and JP in at the same time. Mooney is trying new things, but it looks like right now what we really need to work on is defense.

- Don't leave people open on the 3pt line!
- Box out!

I was surprised to see MW ORtg over 165.
 
JMU appears to be a very good team. That said, this was a flat out embarrassment. We should NEVER allow anyone to score 87 points on our "vaunted" defense at home. For God's sake. Pathetic. As hot As JMU was shooting the ball, they benefited even more when they missed, because we never boxed out and they got easy put backs on which we also fouled them about 6 times.

I'm sure glad we emphasized rebounding so much this fall. If we hadn't, they would have outbounded us by 50.
Agree - a flat out embarrassment
 
The problem is expectations. Ours on this board are generally unrealistic. The goals we all have - - consistently competitive (top half) in A-10 with occasional seasons of greatness are fine and appropriate. The problem is consistently thinking "this year" is going to be one of the great ones. That's especially true this year!!

There was and is absolutely no reason to think we'd be an especially good team this year. We lost our best player and the rest of the core group has proven, over and over again unfortunately, this is who they are. It started basically 2 years ago when Ced went down and the ship ran aground without him. Big expectations last year led to repeated disappointment and we got a huge break from schedule in that we "coulda been a contender" has we simply taken care of some very winnable games.

This year we had big expectations again - - based on what? Outside of some stretches from TA in the past and some even more infrequent ones from SDJ, no one on this team has shown they are a quality player at this level. And before the TJ fan club comes after me, lets remember he was a lower level recruit - - perhaps for reason! He showed some stuff on offense last year but never showed her could be even an average defender and he has never rebounded at this level. Our defender and rebounder for this spot started last night for an ACC team against a Top 10 opponent - - so how is it we can really expect to be better without even that option). Can TJ be a player on a good A-10 team - - sure he can. He's be great getting 22 minutes a night bringing some offense to a team's second unit and playing meaningful minutes on nights he's on and the matchups are OK. In other words, he's a great role player on a good team, while on our team he's our 2nd option on offense and plays too many minutes against starters, exposing his defense and rebounding.

DT - - look we need to just say this - - he is simply not very good. He may give effort etc. but what does he bring really at all. He's a decent defender for us because in the line-up we started last night we have 2 below average defenders (TJ and SDJ) and another just average one (TA), so he ends up being our 2nd defender. But is he any kind of lock down guy that you could put on another teams stud and shut him down? Does he eliminate any others folks mistakes with blocks etc? Does he really provide a physical presence (other than by comparison to our own guys) He's a nice solid system defender, no more. And he doesn't rebound from a key rebounder position. If you are absent offensively and just good defensively at power spot, you better be a beast on the boards! Best role for him on a good team - - 8th or 9th man giving you very limited minutes on a regular basis who maybe steps in with some solid minutes on nights your starter gets in foul trouble etc.

TD offers a bit more, both offensively where he can slash better and defensively as well, but he's just a better version of a limited player. More role for him on a good team - - especially as an energy guy with the 2 nd team and maybe even as a 25 minute starter surrounded by good, complete players.

SDJ - can be part of a good team. Offers some good stuff on offense and is average enough on defense that you can play him. If he's your 4th best starter, you have the making of a good team.

TA - - can play for anyone. Can be a main option on offense and strong enough rebounder to more than hold his own - - especially, I suspect, if surrounded by other rebounders. Defensively, he won't be a lock down guy, but wont hurt you either. Best role is actually as a #2 on a real good team, but him being our number 1 wont be the reason we might struggle this year!

Given all of that, why do we think we'll be a good team challenging for the A-10 title and an NCAA at-large?
I think that you undervalue TJ Cline, but other than that you are spot on. Months ago we said that this team needed significant contributions from the newcomers in order to make the NCAA tournament.

The performance of the 3 newcomers that got to play last night weren't bad for a debut, and we saw some hints of hope, BUT they were no-where near enough. Unless this game was a complete outlier (possible but not likely), there will be no NCAA again this year.
 
TD was actually not horrible efficiency wise, he shot 40% from 2 and 33% from 3. He was fine, although he did miss his free throws. In fact ALL of our players, with the exception of Deion, were efficient last night, not just TA.

Player - 2pt% - 3pt% - eFG%
TA : 71% - 0% - 67%
TJC: 71% - 0% - 56%
SDJ: 50% - 29% - 46%
Fore: 75% - N/A - 75%
JP: N/A - 50% - 75%
TD: 40% - 33% - 44%
DT: N/A - 0% - 0%
MW: 0% - 100% - 75%

National Average: 48% - 31% - 48%

Our offense looks good. Our defense is bad. Fore especially needs more playing time, he should be taking some of Deion's minutes with TD shifting up to the 3. We will need to see some more games from MW, Fore and JP to know what we have, but Wood had 0 defensive rebounds in 16 minutes. He does not look like the answer to our rebounding problem. SDJ was tied for 2nd most defensive rebounds on our team.

At one point I believe Mooney had SDJ, KF and JP in at the same time. Mooney is trying new things, but it looks like right now what we really need to work on is defense.

- Don't leave people open on the 3pt line!
- Box out!

This is correct. We scored enough points to win. We scored enough points to beat most anyone on our schedule, given we are a team that plays such a "tough" defense. We should win 90% of our games when we score 75 points.

Our defense was embarrassing. EMBARRASSING. If this is how we play defense with our two "best" defenders in Trey and Deion getting a lot of minutes, it indicates to me that our scheme is not really that good, or those guys are not really that good defensively, or our coaching staff has failed terribly in an attempt to teach this "great" defense to everyone else -- which is a pretty significant problem, considering that most of the minute last night were played by guys who have been in this system more than a hot minute.
 
So it sounds like what everyone is saying is that the "short guy" (KO) and the "soft guy (ANO) were a big part of our defense. Both having been called liabilities defensively in the past.
 
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