I would say that there are some games we left on the table -- Radford, obviously, plus Alabama and VCU. Unless we are simply not up to par with VCU. But, I think we should be that way THIS YEAR, not even talking about next year.
Is it time to extend Mooney?
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I would say that there are some games we left on the table -- Radford, obviously, plus Alabama and VCU. Unless we are simply not up to par with VCU. But, I think we should be that way THIS YEAR, not even talking about next year.
We beat URI
Dayton is having once in a generation season with once in a generation player
VCU-I will reserve judgment until after we play them at full strength w/ BF
We haven't played SBU yet.
Anyone who watched that game would know that URI beat themselves. They were horrible on that night (like Radford for UR, it happens).
Doesn't mean that UR doesn't have the W in the win column. But, the drumbeat refrain "We beat Rhode Island at their place" is misleading as it relates to assessing which team is better.
Uh....yes, we actually did beat Rhode Island at their place. They beat themselves? What does that even mean? That we did not play well, but they played worse? We were down 9-2 and closed the half on a 28-10 run. We started the 2nd half on a 7-1 run, making it a 35-11 stretch over 18 minutes of game action. We were 8-19 from 3 (Nick 3-4, Blake 3-7, and Burton 2-2), Nate had 19 points and 11 rebounds, Andre had 3 steals. We held them to 61 points, which is the lowest they have scored in a conference game this season, and they never got closer than 7 points to us in the 2nd half. But, why give any credit to us when you can just say they beat themselves, right?
Not a Mooney fan, but the W @ URI was a very good win. Give credit where credit is due. A10 will get more than 2 teams in. My guess is 4. But a lot has to do with how other bubble teams( including UR) play the rest of the way.
You either didn't watch the game, or you couldn't see thru the blinders. Not up to me to decide which it is.
That right there is the problem. Is there is a whole lot of fans and alumni who feel this well and your right no one involved with UR athletics or the basketball programs give a crap. It is very apparent. Probably, why we are still hocking tickets to our rivalry game (which will be filled with probably 40% fans of said rival) and the last two "sellouts" had open seats and free tickets for every child in the building, despite the fact that we have a pretty good product on the court this year.
As for players families, they will be out here as soon as the son graduates, good luck trying to lure back the local fans and alumni, you pissed off by being completely tone deaf over the past 3 years.
I'm not going to criticize our win at Rhody. We won and did so in very convincing fashion. They may not have been playing their best at that time, but who cares? We played well and dominated them on the road, and that's going to be a very big win for us come selection time.
Sorry, I disagree. We beat them pretty soundly. They might have played poorly but probably our effort had something to do with that.
Just like VCU, we can't moan and complain right now that they are in most brackets and we aren't, despite very similar and I would argue that we have a better profile than we do. They beat us. We have a chance to exact revenge this weekend.
99% sure he watched the game.
It was a good win, period. Your point that URI is, by almost every objective ranking, a better team with a better resume, is valid. I don't think anyone is implying otherwise. We were the better team on that day in January.
Just like we are in every objective way better than Radford, but on that day in December, we weren't.
It will be very interesting come selection time if URI's lead over us narrows. Our win is going to be huge. We might need another H2H against them in Brooklyn.
again, my feeling about the importance of the next class has nothing to do with Mooney. it's like you can't separate Mooney from any post. we're graduating "possibly the best class ever". 5 really good players. I like the 7 guys behind them, but we're likely taking a huge step back if those 7 are the top 7 in the rotation when our current juniors graduate. we need a great recruiting class ... or at least 2 great players in it. whether it's Mooney or someone else this summer, I don't want our coach handicapped. and a coach is handicapped if recruits think the administration isn't committed to the coach long term.
So we should just extend Mooney forever In order to recruit? Mediocre is ok? As I said before extend him with a minimal salary/guarantee (easy to buy out) and a big performance bonus.
Frankly I’d love to see what another coach could do with this same team.
This has been the ‘NCAA’ or bust right year right?
You mentioned that his has happened in the past. So a recruit said "Gee Coach, this all sounds great and all, but you're only under contract through 2022, which would be your 17th season at Richmond. It doesn't seem like they're all that committed to you?"
This is the classic Mooney enabling post. We have a 5 man class and so we just need to get 2 great players out of it. Yep, and that will get us exactly the results we have gotten the past 8 plus year.
5 man recruiting class you need 4 great players. A good coach should hit on 75% of his recruits. You setting the bar at 40% for Mooney is what has gotten him into this mess, because apparently 40% is acceptable enough for us to continue to compete.
Yep, last night's outcome was exactly what we wanted. We need Dayton to go 18-0. That means they would sweep VCU and Rhody. If we beat VCU Saturday and then they lose to Dayton, they're not catching us in the standings. If Rhody loses to Dayton again, there's a decent chance we end up tied with them, at least, and then our win against them becomes super important.
One game at a time. We have to do something to narrow the gap - even if we finish tied with them in the A10 standings.
They lost to Dayton by >10 and their NET ranking went up by one.
Second place is definitely Rhody's for the taking. The next week could really make or break VCU, though. Let's break them.
sigh.
"great" = Gilyard/Golden level to me.
in an earlier post I believe I said 2 great, 2 good, 1 miss. that's hitting on 80%. I put Sherod, Cayo and Francis in the good+ category.
extend or replace. but show a commitment to the coach you want.
and no this wasn't an NCAA or bust year. GK might have successfully moved the bar, but we lost 20 games last year. no rational person was expecting NCAA off a 20 loss season. we were and are hoping.
as for the minimal salary, big bonus ... there's a way to make that work but it can't be ridiculous. would you sign a deal to work for a minimal salary and big performance bonus when a lot of the performance can be beyond your control? I wouldn't.
I was told "we're not sure he's going to be there".
maybe they felt that way due to the 20 loss seasons. or chatter. or the billboard. I didn't ask if a longer contract would change that feeling. that wouldn't play any part in your decision as a recruit?
In this day and age, recruits have to know a coaching change can occur anytime. Coaches get fired or leave for better opportunities with little or no advance warning ALL of the time. A contract at most places isn't binding either party to anything (except apparently here, where we never buy out a contract).
I also think a recruit can look at a coach and say gee he's been there for 15 years, hasn't been to the tournament in 8 years, I bet his seat is getting a bit warm because of that. So, if you want to talk about what is hamstringing Mooney, it is probably that. Not winning enough.
Well, if they're "not sure he's going to be there" in 2019 when his contract is guaranteed through 2022, I don't see what an extension would accomplish for this next big class. If 3 years beyond 2019 isn't enough clarity, why would 3 years beyond 2021 be any different. It doesn't hold water.
He owns the hot seat. The time remaining on his contract is not to blame for that; though it may have played a part in saving his job.
Sure, I would have loved some coaching stability (didn't get it by a long shot). I was recruited for a different sport in a different era, and chose the school I wanted.
wait...I'm not rational? Personal attack alert the moderators. Ha. No it's all good Sman. I've been called worse. Also I think it's a back handed way to say I know basketball. So thanks. Because quite frankly those that didn't think we would be good don't know hoops very well imo. Whether you fall into that category u can decide for yourself I guess. I believe about 35% thought we'd win 20+ on here if u go by those preseason polls on here. Also I guess Mooney is not rational either. Is that grounds for termination or should we have a crazy person as our highest paid employee of UR? Because Moon Man himself said he was expecting NCAA. And we all know he doesn't do that normally, and certainly wouldn't have in the prior couple years.
Make or break class. A class we'll rely on in 2024 is make or break. OK. For a program that might be going on 9 years without NCAA. Hey by that time maybe its 13 years. Maybe we should have made one of the last 9 classes make or break and we'd have some NCAA banners! Talk about rational. You won't admit but I think you want a new coach to get that 5 man class. You're still a good guy & poster regardless Sman.
I'm in the 35% category. we definitely knew we'd be a ton better than last year. and that's without even knowing for sure what we had in Francis and Burton and what we could expect from Sherod. but I don't think many felt (or even feel) that we're so loaded with talent that only a bad coach can keep us from dancing.
I don't know why you think this class is a class we won't rely on until 2024. maybe you're warming up to Matt G? I think we need parts of this class to be very good on day 1.
you too, GK!
97 and Choppin ... I don't disagree. I'd pick the school and how I feel about the guys I meet on the team without much thought about the coach's future.
I'm just telling you a story of a 2020 kid with a lot of offers who was maybe looking for an easy way to whittle down that list a little. not every kid will do that. just one example.
I'm just telling you a story of a 2020 kid with a lot of offers who was maybe looking for an easy way to whittle down that list a little. not every kid will do that. just one example.
did he say he expected an NCAA? I can't remember.
I remember he said the team has goals, which they keep in-house. I would think NCAA was a goal, not an expectation.
Yes. 100%. On video too. Part of some offseason preview we did w Q&A. Said ncaa was realistic expectation. Nothing to misconstrue. The in-house goal stuff was what he used to always say before that tho. Must not be rational any longer. We can fire for cause if he’s certifiable.
Two things so Mooney doesn’t take.....oh well. Who is committed? Based on his results he’s been over paid for years so it’s more than a fair request. Plus....It’s his ‘best team ever’ why should he be concerned?
Second yes I believe two or more years back this was the NCAA or bust year.
This x1000.
The majority of college athletes will never play their beloved sport beyond college. Thus, the most important factors to consider are the school itself and then the other athletes on the team. UR is never going to be a place for a string of NBA hopefuls, but there is no reason to believe the team cannot consist of good players that become a great team and make the NCAAs every 3-4 years. Even though the college administration does not seem to support athletics very strongly, there still is a huge investment in athletics facilities and of course coaching salaries with CM being the most highly compensated UR employee. If UR expects nothing more than a team that competes, then the investment in the figurehead of the program should not be at the level it currently is. The expectation was more runs deep into the tournament and instead there have been none. CM got lucky because there was obviously chaos in the AD leadership position, so he got to skate for awhile. Now the question is the AD getting what it is paying for. The performance speaks for itself. Any talk of an extension has to include a restructuring of the contract. If not, I would think donors would suddenly direct their funds to the programs that are delivering a quality product or directly to facility upgrades that will outlast any coach.
You need two out of three, every year. That gives you 8 capable players in theory. So we will need at least three and preferably four of those guys to be capable.
You might if the other option was nothing or to be let go. But I don’t get the feeling that’s how Hardt rolls.
I’m not saying it’s how things work but it would be a fascinating thing to test.
But we're not like any other programs. No program rolls like us. We could be the only program in the country that keeps a coach for 9 straight years without a NCAA and is 6-19 or worse vs. their rival. The. Only. One. We're quite unique sman, don't put anything past us.
But that's all coming to an end. Beat VCU. Then onto NCAA or bust. Go Spiders.
Its well known I am an anti-Mooney guy at this point although I think the problem is that he's just not good enough for us to ever max out our achievement no matter what players he gets. I am a bit more neutral on his recruiting. But what he's done with what he has brought to Richmond for awhile now has been a consistent disappointment.
So, I dutifully wrote a scathing piece on how absurd it would be to extend him detailing all the ways in which he comes up short and we shouldn't want to remain attached to him via a bad contract - - again. I even threw in some commentary about this kind of thinking is the problem with the school and the pro-Mooney faction on the board - - that they are willing to let one decent year bind them to the guy even though the last time we let that happen we ended up with 8 years of mediocrity (and worse the last two years). But I never posted it because reality is that I think he probably will get something and I was still busy writing down how truly awful an idea that was. As I worked on that I shifted my focus from all that vitriol to asking myself what would I do and how would I handle this if I was the AD right now facing this situation?
So I start with this - - If I was the AD we wouldn't be in this situation because I would have fired him last year. No doubt in my mind that's what should have happened. Some will argue its a good thing I wasn't in charge because look at us now and we'd have lost players etc. etc. Who knows where'd we'd be? We might not be as good, we might have lost players, or, we might not have lost to Radford, and we might have beaten VCU and on and on both directions.
But that too fails to answer the what should we do now question? He can't and won't be fired (and in fairness, probably shouldn't be considering we said we were giving him the year and then considering the year over year improvement ) no matter what happens the rest of this season short of a total collapse. Then he brings back the entire group next year. That group should certainly be at least as good as this years. That creates expectations (as it should) for next year. In the perfect world, I'd love to see that play out before any more commitment. But, that group is likely to be good enough that you almost certainly can't fire him after next year either unless he fails to meet the expectations by more than a little bit. But, there is recruiting to do in the meantime and those players are important to the program no matter who the coach ends up being. So UR's interest is tied to Mooney's recruits. So, even if Mooney is recruiting the next coach's players, he needs to be given the full arsenal of things needed to succeed at recruiting. And that means an extension. I certainly don't think he's earned it, but the situation is what it is. I'd give him a two year extension (meaning he'd have 3 years left) at the end of this year, but I'd be prepared to have to eat it if next year is a big disappointment. If I can't convince the powers that be (PQ?) that this is the only way we can do it and I am not convinced that I can fire him IF he has below expectation year next year (because of the contract then having 2 years left), then I have to simply let him coach next year and work on a new contract later (if at all). My view is we can't have two years where we are stuck with a guy we want to move on from because we can't or won't pay up on the contract. That's worse than one bad recruiting class and in any event just kicks the can down the road on that bad recruiting class because he still ends up with a year of trying to recruit without a contract in place - - just a couple years later.
So I'd give him one now, but only if my President and anyone who's cash I need are all in agreement that he can be fired for under performance at any time and we'll eat the cash loss if/when that happens. If my cash folks don't give the freedom, I am still very much in "prove it" mode with CM and would have to let him show me with a year that measure up to expectations.
So, I dutifully wrote a scathing piece on how absurd it would be to extend him detailing all the ways in which he comes up short and we shouldn't want to remain attached to him via a bad contract - - again. I even threw in some commentary about this kind of thinking is the problem with the school and the pro-Mooney faction on the board - - that they are willing to let one decent year bind them to the guy even though the last time we let that happen we ended up with 8 years of mediocrity (and worse the last two years). But I never posted it because reality is that I think he probably will get something and I was still busy writing down how truly awful an idea that was. As I worked on that I shifted my focus from all that vitriol to asking myself what would I do and how would I handle this if I was the AD right now facing this situation?
So I start with this - - If I was the AD we wouldn't be in this situation because I would have fired him last year. No doubt in my mind that's what should have happened. Some will argue its a good thing I wasn't in charge because look at us now and we'd have lost players etc. etc. Who knows where'd we'd be? We might not be as good, we might have lost players, or, we might not have lost to Radford, and we might have beaten VCU and on and on both directions.
But that too fails to answer the what should we do now question? He can't and won't be fired (and in fairness, probably shouldn't be considering we said we were giving him the year and then considering the year over year improvement ) no matter what happens the rest of this season short of a total collapse. Then he brings back the entire group next year. That group should certainly be at least as good as this years. That creates expectations (as it should) for next year. In the perfect world, I'd love to see that play out before any more commitment. But, that group is likely to be good enough that you almost certainly can't fire him after next year either unless he fails to meet the expectations by more than a little bit. But, there is recruiting to do in the meantime and those players are important to the program no matter who the coach ends up being. So UR's interest is tied to Mooney's recruits. So, even if Mooney is recruiting the next coach's players, he needs to be given the full arsenal of things needed to succeed at recruiting. And that means an extension. I certainly don't think he's earned it, but the situation is what it is. I'd give him a two year extension (meaning he'd have 3 years left) at the end of this year, but I'd be prepared to have to eat it if next year is a big disappointment. If I can't convince the powers that be (PQ?) that this is the only way we can do it and I am not convinced that I can fire him IF he has below expectation year next year (because of the contract then having 2 years left), then I have to simply let him coach next year and work on a new contract later (if at all). My view is we can't have two years where we are stuck with a guy we want to move on from because we can't or won't pay up on the contract. That's worse than one bad recruiting class and in any event just kicks the can down the road on that bad recruiting class because he still ends up with a year of trying to recruit without a contract in place - - just a couple years later.
So I'd give him one now, but only if my President and anyone who's cash I need are all in agreement that he can be fired for under performance at any time and we'll eat the cash loss if/when that happens. If my cash folks don't give the freedom, I am still very much in "prove it" mode with CM and would have to let him show me with a year that measure up to expectations.
