Is it time to extend Mooney?
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I hear u EL. It's all opinion. No big deal if we disagree a little on this. I actually think it would be a nice improvement if we are 19-4 at this time next year. 11-2 with a similar out of conference schedule seems really good, especially considering we will have more road games out of conference next year. And 8-2 IC just seems a lot better than 7-3. It kind of separates you more toward the top of the pack. It's not like we don't have any good wins this year, and as a result it should be easy to have more wins next year. We would likely still need to beat teams like Wisconsin and Rhode Island, add a few more good wins, and not have any bad losses at all to see a three or four game improvement in wins.
ugh, this is the worst solution.
if we were going to fire him, it really should have been before this season. that would have been perfectly acceptable after two 20 loss seasons.
now we have a very good team with no seniors. and we have a terrifically important recruiting season upcoming. you want to send a handcuffed coach on the trail to replace this 5 man starting class? the class that can make or break us for a good long while?
Hardt doesn't need more time to figure this out. he either wants Mooney here long term or he doesn't. it's either extend or release. leaving him dangling just hurts the program.
I hadn't heard of Mooney using this excuse, but s-man knows for a fact it has happened. I believe him.
His contract is guaranteed for two years beyond the current one, and has been for quite some time. So he had 3 years this past offseason, 4 the one prior, and 5 (or more) every year prior to that. There seems to be some disconnect on "lack of clarity." Unless these incidents happened before The Miller Ten Year Special.
And dangling is still not the best option, it's just better than extension. It's not personal but...
1. Termination
2. Dangling
Realize you have a problem, find your fire and go get that NCAA bid now Moon man.
Legger, I thought the minimizing of expectations comes closer to the next season. VT4700 starting early this year. Usually at this time like UR80sfan it's we are near NCAA guarantee and top 25. Future is bright etc. Then once the dust is settled it's bait and switch time to ease it all back. Good gracious if we won't be lights out next year it's even more reason to get a new coach in here without NCAA this year. Remember best class ever is complete BS without NCAA this year.
My expectation is the same improvement in defense next year as there has been this year.
110.3 - 98.0 = 12.3
98.0 - 12.3 = 85.7 and 2nd in the nation...
110.3 - 98.0 = 12.3
98.0 - 12.3 = 85.7 and 2nd in the nation...
I agree 100% Spiderman - if you were going to fire him, before this season was the time to do it. By not doing it - I think Hardt, the school, etc - knew the team would be better, knew we would show great improvement (going from 13 wins to 21+ wins) and they know this sets up perfectly for them to give him a small extension and save themselves the money they would have spent on firing him and paying him to not coach, on top of paying a new coach - something they clearly did not want to entertain. I don't think NCAA bids are important to the school - the plan is just to compete. And they are competing very well this year. and will do the same next year.
Why are you calling my quotes bait-and-switch? So, if we go 23-8 or 24-7 this year, and I think we might be able to improve that to maybe 25 wins next year, somehow that means I am "starting early" and minimizing expectations? At 25-6? Come on. Why post like that?
Pretty dramatic Sman considering we could be in a 9 year NCAA drought after this season. The past 9 classes haven't made us but this one will! By that time maybe that class lets Mooney break a 13 year cycle. Yippee. I'd say your advocating for a termination given an extension is untenable. Ok cool hook em.
And, a lot of people on here said asking for just an eight game improvement to 21 wins was too much to ask for. I got criticized (shocker) for thinking we could improve so much. Now, it looks like we are headed for more, and yet, many on here are still disgruntled.
I think there's still a lot of basketball left, and it's way too early to talk extension. Let's see how the season ends. We could still lose too many and not even make the NIT, make the NIT, or make the dance.
Not all NITs are the same. Even though they might feel that way. But, when you are talking extension, if we get to 23 or 24 wins this year, seems like it would be hard not to do an extension, whether that equals NIT or NCAA. 2 years through 2024 is plenty if that happens. Then, see how next year goes, and extend a couple more if necessary.
Not all NITs are the same. Even though they might feel that way. But, when you are talking extension, if we get to 23 or 24 wins this year, seems like it would be hard not to do an extension, whether that equals NIT or NCAA. 2 years through 2024 is plenty if that happens. Then, see how next year goes, and extend a couple more if necessary.
I don't want Mooney's recruiting touch anywhere near a 5 man class. He does fine if he only has to bring in 1 or 2 players per class. 5 players though, we've seen this before with his large classes. We get 1-3 (top end) good players who can make an impact and than 2-3 players who will be playing D-2 ball in a few years. We've seen this literally with every big class Mooney has recruited. He is consistently terrible in these situations.
If I'm Hardt and he has to recruit this class, I have someone who has the ability to block these "reach" recruits that only have 1-2 low mid major offers and forbids Mooney from signing these guys. I'm sorry if that isn't how it works. Literally, no coach is still employed at an A-10 level school or higher with his 9 year NCAA hiatus either.
Hold his damn feet to the fire to do better and not just let him fill slots to pull the wool over a few gullible supporters faces yet one more time.
If I'm Hardt and he has to recruit this class, I have someone who has the ability to block these "reach" recruits that only have 1-2 low mid major offers and forbids Mooney from signing these guys. I'm sorry if that isn't how it works. Literally, no coach is still employed at an A-10 level school or higher with his 9 year NCAA hiatus either.
Hold his damn feet to the fire to do better and not just let him fill slots to pull the wool over a few gullible supporters faces yet one more time.
Well the bait comes first the switch comes later. We won't know until next offseason if you've stuck with it. 25-6 is reasonable. Against this schedule your comments felt a little different than top 25 good that's all. But I apologize the comment wasn't directed to you anyway tho I can see why u thought so. And we all know we've gotten a lot of bait and switch out of our bball program. I'm much more interested in this year too.
Damn dude, Mooney set the bar so damn low the past 2 years, that his miraculous improvement probably still leaves as a team on the outside looking in for a 68 team tournament.
I guess if I were to lose my company a million bucks each of the last two years and then this year I only lost them $500,000, someone should give me a raise and sign me on for another couple years for the drastic improvement I've made.
I think that would be something to see. A player gets recruited but not admitted.
When someone asks the admission office if his academics weren't good enough, they said no his athletics...
97 it's a make or break class. I just wish we had one of those in the last NINE years!! Our best class ever could be on the outside looking in but we must give our coach an extension in order to save our program. From what not making the NCAAs in the last 9 years? Bizarro world out here.
Do you actually think anyone involved with the school or basketball program cares what your opinion is? When the players and their parents read your post do you think they are happy to have you as a fan? It has got to be terrible going through life so negative. How do you get out of bed each morning?
By the way, I am truly enjoying this season, along with approximately 7,500 fans who will be participating in our 3rd sellout in a row this weekend to watch our great Spiders having the 1st of 2 great seasons with this wonderful team..
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You're right all NITs are not the same. When you have NCAA expectations its a massive letdown. When you overachieve it's ok. We were 10-1 and net 22. To go to NIT would be a massive choke job considering the 8 years prior you didn't go at all.
But that NIT equals extension! This program needs a backbone. Rewarding mediocrity or worse (NINE years, 6-19 VCU) cannot be accepted.
Plus Hardt would be two faced if he gives an extension with things he has said privately and publicly.
you keep looking backwards while I'm looking forwards.
I'm very happy with Burton, Crabtree and Wilson. maybe we add one more late. at the very worst this next big class has to have 2 or 3 guys having Burton level impact as freshmen, 2 of which have to be strong starters by their sophomore year including a center. and 2 guys with roles. we can have 1 miss. it's an important class if we're building something long term and not starting over after 2 good years. I don't think that's dramatic.
I agree VT4700 - I thought getting over 20 wins this season was a reach, and it looks like we are getting there. Problem is - our OOC turned out to be weaker than expected, and even the A10 has turned out to be very top heavy. Right now - you got Dayton, VCU, URI in the top, and then UR, Bonnies, and Duquesne. After that - pretty big dropoff with the Davidson disappointment (I was hoping they would turn it around, but they haven't), and then down to GW, UMASS, LaSalle, Fordham, and St. Joes. Right there - you got 6 games you should win easily. And if you play any of those teams twice like UR does - your looking at 8 wins pretty easily. Sneak in a win or two elsehwere (URI) - your at 9-10 wins.
We can't do much about the strength of the A10 - and Davidson really killed UR because we play them twice. What should have been two opportunities to get a resume building win has turned into two games to get a resume killing loss.
I am not disgruntled if we win 23 games and make the NIT, I just worry what will be the difference next year. We could do the same exact thing next year or win less games if the OOC is tougher, and still not make the NCAA but have a very good and competitive team.
I'd put my long time support of Spiders up against yours any day but that's neither here nor there. I think all that remains from original rivals board are me, spiderman, URFan1, SpiderFan and a few I'm probably not remembering. A few great ones like Tarrantula are no longer around here unfortunately. I wan the best for the Spiders that is not in question. Point is some newbies don't realize the past positivity but u can also be critical & supportive at same time.
Anyway I think players and parents are smart enough to realize my beef is consistently with adults such as Mooney and Hardt who are making lots of money to meet higher standards. I'm behind the players. Find me something I said negative on a player. Do you think they're happy when you give them a 10% chance to win vs. Dayton. Do you think they're happy when you don't expect them to make NCAA?
I'm quite positive. I believed in them to win that game and make NCAA all along from the offseason. You didn't, stop being negative on the guys. I still believe in them but Mooney, the highest paid employee of UR, is not coming through. That's the issue. Time still remains tho.
"10-1 with a NET of 22". Interesting coming from the guy who has gone on and on about how awful our OOC schedule was. Not all NITs are the same. We are getting respect. We are showing up in brackets. We are relevant. It is mid February and we still have a lot to play for. I would take 17-6 with a NET in the 50s and a chance at the dance in mid-February every year. Obviously, you would not. That's fine. We can disagree.
Nope I'm looking forward too just with a new coach hopefully if Moon can't get it done here. Backwards with him just tells me what to expect. I just find it funny that you call a class that we'll rely on in 2024 or 2025 make or break for program who hasn't been to NCAAs in 9 years.
Granted there was some smoke and mirrors there because the OOC had only played a third of its schedule. The OOC remains a problem. It was bound to go down but u still have to close when you're 10-1 Net 22 regardless.
I wouldn't take 17-6 w Net in the 50s and chance to dance every year...say what? Yeah I'd take that. because if you do that you're bound to make some. We might have 4 NCAAs in the last 8 years if we were always in that spot. We have ZERO. Point is we're not regularly in that spot not even close. That's another reason why when we finally are in that spot u have to make it. What u wrote is crazy.
G, sorry to put words in your mouth. Glad to hear you would take 17-6 and on the bubble every year. You make some good points here. I agree when you start 10-1, you need to close. But, back to the out of conference schedule, that's where we needed to close. Just think where we would be had we just split with Bama and Radford? Beat Bama, and we are 18 - 5 with another quad one win. Lose to them and beat Radford, and we are 18 - 5 with our worst loss to number 73 St. Louis and our other four losses top 42. That is why I continue to say our out of conference was more than fine. We just did not take care of business there.
What I wouldn't take is 23-11 NET 55 and first 8 out, every year for 25 years...
I am fine where we are this year. I think only 9 of 27 bubble teams don't have a bad loss.
Not so sure we are going to get to my signature but the rubber is about to meet the road.
I am fine where we are this year. I think only 9 of 27 bubble teams don't have a bad loss.
Not so sure we are going to get to my signature but the rubber is about to meet the road.
At Davidson may remain a minimally good win. The team you left out of the A-10 run down was SLU.
Like u said earlier u are going to lose some, OOC and IC. But u can control OOC. Too weak, less margin. We've proven in past you can get in with harder schedule and more losses. But even a little better schedule helps and I truly believe we would have performed just as well or better with our team. Sometimes need those harder games to help keep teams attention and easier to surprise teams rated higher OOC imo. Mooney was right when he said we needed to have toughest or one of toughest in A10 and we went too far away from that inexplicably. Doesn't mean u can't get in but harder, I'd rather give a good experienced team more chances at good wins than less.
If we did not take care of business who's fault is that....the buck stops with the coach especially in the 9th year of a 10 year deal with no NCAAs. We are in agreement there.
Yes we should have fired him after the two 20+ loss seasons but to now extend him without meeting the goals set forth is the wrong path to take. Yes let him dangle. Let him earn an extension. He has done more damage to this program than can be calculated. Give him some motivation to resurrect it. A half season of above average bball isnt enough to let him off the hook.
Yes, that is exactly what is the set up here and the scam Hardt has played on us fans, but the topic of the thread is should consideration be given to an extension for CM now or soon and that answer is still, NO.
Seem to see one of these threads every few weeks, but at least this time there are some comments from some additional forum members.
The one question I would like to pose is IF CM gets an extension what are the terms? I certainly hope that UR structures the deal so he earns LESS as a base and then have some incentives like making the NCAAs and wins in the tournament for additional compensation. If he and his agent don’t like it, then no extension. In this scenario, other potential coaches will see that UR does expect results and that they tried to extend an offer.
The one question I would like to pose is IF CM gets an extension what are the terms? I certainly hope that UR structures the deal so he earns LESS as a base and then have some incentives like making the NCAAs and wins in the tournament for additional compensation. If he and his agent don’t like it, then no extension. In this scenario, other potential coaches will see that UR does expect results and that they tried to extend an offer.
That's an Ivory Tower question if I ever saw one.
By the way it's not hard to sell out games when you offer $5 tickets, offer faculty/staff gobs of free tickets, and basically bribe kids to come on in. It's nice to have eyes on the team, but let's not make it like there is a huge demand to watch Mooney's super successful coaching.
Agree.
If CM goes 10 years with no NCAA and stays consistent in losing to VCU, what on earth can anyone come up with as justification as to not make a change? I have no doubt the hanger-ons will be real creative finding new justifications.
Then why are there tons of empty seats throughout the A-10 and college basketball in general, if it's that easy?
No one is disgruntled with the record. People are disgruntled with not making the tournament. NIT doesn’t cut it after 8 year drought.
If we make the tournament this year, you should absolutely come back and post this.
My simple issue is missing the NCAA tournament again this year. Winning 20 or more games this year is a big improvement. The challenge is Rhode Island, Dayton, VCU and St.Bonaventure are in the way. That's four top level teams. When the A-10 is only getting two bids more than likely this year. We have to win the A-10 tournament which would be unreal in my opinion. Just prove me wrong and win the A-10 tournament. And I accept Mooney for his extended contract.
