Higher probability of Mooney getting contract extension than leaving early.

[97spiderfan]

Mooney not having a Twitter account is just the latest example of him and his staff doing just enough and their continued lack of visibility on so many mediums, that would make our program interesting to potential recruits and the general public.

While other coaches are out making numerous offers to transfers and freshman to fill slots, we've brought in like 2 guys for a walk around our building.

While other coaches are using the media frequently to engage their stakeholders and recruiters, Mooney hides from the media (including social media) only utilizing it when he absolutely is required to do so.

While other coaches are out branding their programs and their expectations for the upcoming season, we haven't heard a peep. Go look at Rousell or Huesman for an internal comparisons on this. Both programs may end up stinking next year, but at least you can feel a level of excitement and optimism around them.

You wanna know why the FMM controls the narrative around our program right now? Because our coaches, our athletic department have hid themselves in a corner and have allowed that to happen.

 

[Captain Anderson]

If we were consistently winning and recruiting well threads discussing Mooney not having Twitter would not be necessary.

But since we haven't gone to the tournament in 8 years I think it is fair to wonder why the coaching staff is not doing more. Lack of Twitter is only a minuscule drawback. But when you add it to all the other issues we have it is indicative of much deeper issues and I think it's legitimate for us to wonder why we aren't exploring more ways to reach out.

Exactly. It's why I was disappointed that we didn't look outside the program with the recent assistant coaching opening. We had an opportunity bring in someone with fresh ideas and new recruiting relationships but instead we just hire from within. You would think that after an 8 year tournament drought there would be a sense of urgency to try new things and address weaknesses. I'm not at practice everyday like some of you lucky posters so maybe those things are being addressed but we sure have seen the same issues/deficiencies over and over again the past 8 years and the one constant over that time period has been the head coach.

 

[VT4700]

You really want to have this debate? Really?

Sure. Why not? Before this year, Duke and North Carolina were winning the national titles, while Virginia was not making the final four. Maybe you were thinking Bennett needs to be on Twitter? But, he did not have to, and now he has a national title. Without him being on Twitter.

 

[WebSpinner]

can buy that, worth discussing as long as we don't decide that is a huge part of the prob. do we know whether any of the assistants are on twitter?

 

[UR80sfan]

Recently a few people on this board have said that Mooney has no excuse if he doesn’t reach the NCAA tournament this coming year and they have insinuated he should lose his job if he does not. They have also commented that Mooney will receive heavy criticism if he doesn’t fill his remaining scholarship.

The reality is that it is extremely hard to get an invitation to the NCAA tournament unless you win your conference tournament. In the history of U of R Basketball, I believe we’ve only received two invitations where we were not winners of the conference tournament. With that said, I do think we have a shot this year.

It is unrealistic to think that Mooney will lose his job if he doesn't make it to the NCAA. I am not sure what the administration's expectations are for Mooney, but I would think if we finish in the top six in the conference it would be very difficult for the administration not to bring him back the following year.

Relative to the remaining scholarship, our basketball team is heavily weighted towards juniors and sophomores and we should be extremely selective with the remaining scholarship to make sure we get the best possible candidate. If we can get a great grad transfer that would be terrific and if we can’t, than let’s use it on an outstanding player next year. Outside of people on this forum, some of which also run negative social media sites directed at the program and especially Mooney, I think there will be very little criticism of Mooney if he does land a top grad transfer.

 

[Eight Legger]

The point isn't that he must make the NCAAs in one year or else be fired – in a vacuum that would be ridiculous. The point is that if he misses them this year it would be his NINTH in a row missing them.

Coaches at this level who miss 9 straight NCAAs do not stay employed. They simply don't. In fact, there are only two coaches at our level or higher who still have their jobs after missing eight straight NCAAs - Mooney and the Penn State coach, Pat Chambers. That's it.

 

[MrTbone]

There's obviously a philosophical question in here that frankly, there's no objective answer to. "What's good enough?"

Everyone has their own standard. For many on the board, it's to make the NCAA at least once in a reasonable timeframe, i.e., within 8/9 years. For others, it's a far bit lower. The only person whose opinion really matters is Hardt's, and perhaps some big ticket donors.

I don't think there's much point litigating this, the decision is likely not purely about wins and losses and post-season appearances, otherwise CM would probably be out of work. What it is about is highly speculative and definitely perplexing to many.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

Hardt and Mooney themselves have set that expectation.

The reality is that it is extremely hard to get an invitation to the NCAA tournament unless you win your conference tournament.

The A10 has sent multiple at large teams to the NCAA tournament every year of Mooney's tenure except last year, when VCU got the only at-large. I expect we'll have multiple bids again next season.

 

[VT4700]

Hardt and Mooney themselves have set that expectation.


The A10 has sent multiple at large teams to the NCAA tournament every year of Mooney's tenure except last year, when VCU got the only at-large. I expect we'll have multiple bids again next season.

Which means if the A-10 gets 3 total bids, we need to be one of the two out of 13 other teams that gets the at-large if we do not win the conference tourney. You could have a real good year and not get an at-large in the A-10. We have seen several examples of this happening. That is why a top 4 seed is so important because you might have to win the tourney.

 

[VT4700]

The point isn't that he must make the NCAAs in one year or else be fired – in a vacuum that would be ridiculous. The point is that if he misses them this year it would be his NINTH in a row missing them.

Coaches at this level who miss 9 straight NCAAs do not stay employed. They simply don't. In fact, there are only two coaches at our level or higher who still have their jobs after missing eight straight NCAAs - Mooney and the Penn State coach, Pat Chambers. That's it.

But, how many of the mid-major coaches who got fired did so after taking their team to two back-to-back tourneys including a sweet 16? I would think that would have bought plenty of them a lot of extra years. To put that in perspective, just going to back-to-back tourneys has happened only twice in our history. Tarrant did it once and Mooney did it once.

 

[GKiller]

NCAA OR BUST

 

[VT4700]

NCAA OR BUST

I hear you, G. It is time.

 

[VT4700]

That being said, G, if I'm the AD, I just can't put an NCAA or bust label on this year. I still have to evaluate at the end of the year and make what I think is the correct decision. We could go 14-4, tie for first, 22-8 overall and not get in like St..Bona. did a few years ago. With everyone returning, I'm not sure the right thing to do would be to fire a coach after that. I know people will disagree. That's fine. Just my thoughts about it.

 

[urmite]

That being said, G, if I'm the AD, I just can't put an NCAA or bust label on this year. I still have to evaluate at the end of the year and make what I think is the correct decision. We could go 14-4, tie for first, 22-8 overall and not get in like St..Bona. did a few years ago. With everyone returning, I'm not sure the right thing to do would be to fire a coach after that. I know people will disagree. That's fine. Just my thoughts about it.

Surprisingly, I don't remember the same uproar over GW going 23-10 that same year... (And then winning the NIT)

 

[GKiller]

That being said, G, if I'm the AD, I just can't put an NCAA or bust label on this year. I still have to evaluate at the end of the year and make what I think is the correct decision. We could go 14-4, tie for first, 22-8 overall and not get in like St..Bona. did a few years ago. With everyone returning, I'm not sure the right thing to do would be to fire a coach after that. I know people will disagree. That's fine. Just my thoughts about it.

If we tie for 1st w that record & miss out we totally screwed up the OOC. Which is impossible because we were told it would be the toughest OOC in A10. So we r good!

Ncaa or bust. No excuses.

I don’t know what big hat no cattle Hardt would do. It is just too bad he didn’t take that other retirement gig, Santa at the local mall.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

Always an excuse at the ready.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

. We could go 14-4, tie for first, 22-8 overall and not get in like St..Bona. did a few years ago.

So no doubt like GKiller stated the OOC wasn't what it had to be. No one to blame but Mooney himself.

4700, as much as you care about the players and how they shouldn't be talked down to here cause they aren't to blame, logically speaking in caring about the players ..... Jacon, GG, Nick etc etc ..... deserve having another coach lead them in their last shot at March Madness?

 

[MrTbone]

That being said, G, if I'm the AD, I just can't put an NCAA or bust label on this year. I still have to evaluate at the end of the year and make what I think is the correct decision. We could go 14-4, tie for first, 22-8 overall and not get in like St..Bona. did a few years ago. With everyone returning, I'm not sure the right thing to do would be to fire a coach after that. I know people will disagree. That's fine. Just my thoughts about it.

Lots of logic to this, and I think if we were having this conversation five years ago (which we were when the senior laden team went 16-16), you probably don’t want to upset the apple cart. Unfortunately that perpetuates a cycle that hasn’t proven breakable in nearly a decade.

“We’ll get ‘em next year.”

At some point you have to get ‘em this year. Or admit that getting ‘em isn’t really the goal.

 

[VT4700]

So no doubt like GKiller stated the OOC wasn't what it had to be. No one to blame but Mooney himself.

4700, as much as you care about the players and how they shouldn't be talked down to here cause they aren't to blame, logically speaking in caring about the players ..... Jacon, GG, Nick etc etc ..... deserve having another coach lead them in their last shot at March Madness?

Why? They seem pretty happy with the coach they have. Otherwise, they would have already transferred like so many of you wrongly predicted.

 

[VT4700]

Lots of logic to this, and I think if we were having this conversation five years ago (which we were when the senior laden team went 16-16), you probably don’t want to upset the apple cart. Unfortunately that perpetuates a cycle that hasn’t proven breakable in nearly a decade.

“We’ll get ‘em next year.”

At some point you have to get ‘em this year. Or admit that getting ‘em isn’t really the goal.

So, you think it would be smart to get rid of our coach if we go 14-4 in the A-10, tie for first, and 22-8 overall if we don't make the tourney? So, if a junior dominated class goes from 6-12 in the A-10 to 14 - 4 in the A-10, you think we should get a new coach before they become seniors?

 

[VT4700]

Always an excuse at the ready.

Who said anything about an excuse? I simply said if we go from 6-12 to 14 - 4 in the A-10, I would give our coach another year if I were the AD.

 

[MrTbone]

So, you think it would be smart to get rid of our coach if we go 14-4 in the A-10, tie for first, and 22-8 overall if we don't make the tourney? So, if a junior dominated class goes from 6-12 in the A-10 to 14 - 4 in the A-10, you think we should get a new coach before they become seniors?

In the microcosm of that scenario, no. I think you’d be borderline nuts to do that.

But that also presumes you don’t have the decade of data leading up to it.

It’s far from being a slam dunk. Frankly, that’s a nightmare scenario to me as an AD.

 

[GKiller]

I know people will disagree. That's fine. Just my thoughts about it.

That aged well

 

[GKiller]

So, you think it would be smart to get rid of our coach if we go 14-4 in the A-10, tie for first, and 22-8 overall if we don't make the tourney? So, if a junior dominated class goes from 6-12 in the A-10 to 14 - 4 in the A-10, you think we should get a new coach before they become seniors?

YES. It means we would have criminally mismanaged our OOC SOS. Including not even scheduling the max ooc games (13) and also assumes we had another flop in the A10 tourney again not even getting by the quarters. All in a year that we had very good prospects yet ended up missing NCAA for the NINTH straight season.

 

[GKiller]

Why? They seem pretty happy with the coach they have. Otherwise, they would have already transferred like so many of you wrongly predicted.

Actually many said the less likelihood of core player transfers this offseaon was the reason to make a coaching change this year. Guys like GG Francis & Sherod realistically couldn’t go anywhere with their redshirts. Gilyard was the only real worry. Then u give them a year with new coach who produces & increase the odds they don’t ever transfer. Plus a new coach would have had much more success getting new players in to help next year imo. The higher odds to keep the core for 2 straight years was via a coaching change. Because if we dont have a great year we have a very large risk coming of grad transfers. What’s done is done and I’ll be rooting for the team to kick ass. If the other scenario develops Hardt should be out the door as fast as Mooney.

NCAA or bust.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

Why? They seem pretty happy with the coach they have. Otherwise, they would have already transferred like so many of you wrongly predicted.

So they will continue to be happy never getting to participate in March Madness? Sounds like nonsense to me but coming from you it makes complete sense. Well hopefully for the KIDS sake that happiness evaporates like it did for Khawn.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

In the past 8 years:

St. Bonaventure X 2
Saint Louis X 4
Temple X 2
Xavier
VCU X 6
La Salle
Butler
St. Joseph's X 2
Dayton X 4
George Washington
Massachusetts
Davidson X 2
Rhode Island X 2

But we want to whine about how haaaaaaaard it is.

 

[Eight Legger]

In the past 8 years:

St. Bonaventure X 2
Saint Louis X 4
Temple X 2
Xavier
VCU X 6
La Salle
Butler
St. Joseph's X 2
Dayton X 4
George Washington
Massachusetts
Davidson X 2
Rhode Island X 2

But we want to whine about how haaaaaaaard it is.

Not fair. You picked a totally arbitrary timeframe to compare. You should have chosen the last 35 years instead...

 

[VT4700]

YES. It means we would have criminally mismanaged our OOC SOS. Including not even scheduling the max ooc games (13) and also assumes we had another flop in the A10 tourney again not even getting by the quarters. All in a year that we had very good prospects yet ended up missing NCAA for the NINTH straight season.

I guess you are missing my point, which I thought was pretty clear. My point was comparing things to the year St. Bona. had, not trying to predict an exact overall record without even knowing all OOC opponents, how many games we played in the A-10 tourney, or who we would have beaten or lost to. I was responding to the NCAA or bust comment, and I don't think missing the tourney automatically means the AD should fire the coach. You do. We can disagree.

 

[VT4700]

So they will continue to be happy never getting to participate in March Madness? Sounds like nonsense to me but coming from you it makes complete sense. Well hopefully for the KIDS sake that happiness evaporates like it did for Khawn.

Who said never? Sticking with the 14-4 and did not get in the dance theme, I think they would play well in the NIT and look forward to an NCAA bid their senior year. Geez. I simply made a comment and said I know people on here will probably disagree. Not sure it has to turn into this.

 

[GKiller]

I guess you are missing my point, which I thought was pretty clear. My point was comparing things to the year St. Bona. had, not trying to predict an exact overall record without even knowing all OOC opponents, how many games we played in the A-10 tourney, or who we would have beaten or lost to. I was responding to the NCAA or bust comment, and I don't think missing the tourney automatically means the AD should fire the coach. You do. We can disagree.

U put 14-4 22-8 out there multiple times. I addressed exactly why not. Crystal clear thanks. If u want to make another moving target I’d wager u work in the AD. Be nice if someone there had some spine & actually backed up what they say.

 

[VT4700]

U put 14-4 22-8 out there multiple times. I addressed exactly why not. Crystal clear thanks. If u want to make another moving target I’d wager u work in the AD. Be nice if someone there had some spine & actually backed up what they say.

Wow. Not sure why a friendly debate has to turn into this.

 

[MarlboroRed]

How on earth is there any debate that a guy who parlayed a 3 game run over 2 weeks 8 years ago should no longer be cashing $120k monthly checks? Vt, you make me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

How on earth is there any debate that a guy who parlayed a 3 game run over 2 weeks 8 years ago should no longer be cashing $120k monthly checks? Vt, you make me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Your premise is preposterous. It was a five game run over 9 days.

 

[VT4700]

Your premise is preposterous. It was a five game run over 9 days.

Actually, 26-9 (13-3 A-10, 7 seed) and 29-8 (13-3 A-10, A-10 tourney title, sweet 16) over 2 years. That would buy numerous mid major coaches lots of years. Why have other mid major coaches been fired? Because they did not do what is listed above.

 

[VT4700]

How on earth is there any debate that a guy who parlayed a 3 game run over 2 weeks 8 years ago should no longer be cashing $120k monthly checks? Vt, you make me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

As I said on my previous post, it was a 2 year run. Not sure why the debate is turning into this anyway. I responded to an NCAA or bust comment and said we could have a year like St. Bona. did a few years ago (14-4, tie for 1st) and not get in. With everyone returning, I think it would be hard as an AD to fire a coach after they went from 6-12 to 14-4. I also said I realize people will disagree.

 

[Eight Legger]

Find me another coach at this level or higher who went to two NCAAs in a row and then missed eight in a row. I'll wait.

 

[VT4700]

Find me another coach at this level or higher who went to two NCAAs in a row and then missed eight in a row. I'll wait.

Find me the number of mid-major coaches who even did that to begin with. We are talkin mid-major. That's what we are. Higher has nothing to do with it. Plenty of major coaches have gone to back-to-back tourneys, but how many mid-majors have gone back to back with a sweet 16 thrown in? You are kidding yourself if you don't think that would buy mid-major coaches a whole lot of extra years. But, I do agree that it is time.

 

[Eight Legger]

The A10 has had multiple bid every year of Mooney's tenure. That's the very upper reaches of "mid-major." If we were still in the CAA then I might agree with you. But in retrospect, we wasted $13 million paying him for something he had already accomplished. Terrible.

 

[VT4700]

Many of you have made it very clear how you feel about Hardt and Mooney on pretty much every thread, related or not. The decision has been made. Let's see how this year turns out. Maybe you guys will be right, but maybe Hardt made the right decision and we have a great year. Why keep going over the same stuff? Let's move on and see how we can do this year.