Higher probability of Mooney getting contract extension than leaving early.

[Eight Legger]

There is a lot about the committee to question. It was stupid that they didn't have two options – one involving us winning and being seeded higher and the other involving us losing and being seeded lower. But there were other moving parts, and the quote cited here or in another thread from the chairman flat out said that we were in win or lose.

 

[97spiderfan]

There is a lot about the committee to question. It was stupid that they didn't have two options – one involving us winning and being seeded higher and the other involving us losing and being seeded lower. But there were other moving parts, and the quote cited here or in another thread from the chairman flat out said that we were in win or lose.

People get too hung up seedings. Is there that much difference between playing a 5 seed and a 7 seed? No, not really. I would much rather be an 11 or 12 seed anyway, because that avoid a second round game against a 1 or a 2 seed, which is very meaningful.

The committee has to take so many things into account in making the bracket. Location, not matching up conference mates or teams that played earlier in the year. This is why some teams end up with a much higher or lower seeding than what their true seeding maybe should have been.

Once Thursday comes, it really doesn't matter. You just have to win games.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

I'm not sure why you're being so obtuse about this. They had to put an AQ on that line 12, the way the bracket was set up. If we had lost to Dayton, they could put us where they wanted, and it just bumps all the at-larges down a line until the last one in gets bubbled out. But they weren't going to seed Dayton over any at-large teams.

The only thing I'm unclear on is how much discretion they have in moving the seed lines of the play-in games themselves. Perhaps they could have done that.

Anyway, it worked out in our favor. We got a soft 5 and then Morehead State. As others have pointed out, if you want to make the Sweet 16 as a low seed, 12 and 13 seem like your best options, as you avoid 1/2/3.

 

[wr70beh]

There is a lot about the committee to question. It was stupid that they didn't have two options – one involving us winning and being seeded higher and the other involving us losing and being seeded lower. But there were other moving parts, and the quote cited here or in another thread from the chairman flat out said that we were in win or lose.

We may have knocked out VCU if we lost. Then they wouldn't have gone to a Final Four, and they'd still be in the CAA and they'd still be selling their tickets on Groupon.

Damn you Mooney! <sarcasm>

 

[VT4700]

I'm not sure why you're being so obtuse about this. They had to put an AQ on that line 12, the way the bracket was set up. If we had lost to Dayton, they could put us where they wanted, and it just bumps all the at-larges down a line until the last one in gets bubbled out. But they weren't going to seed Dayton over any at-large teams.

The only thing I'm unclear on is how much discretion they have in moving the seed lines of the play-in games themselves. Perhaps they could have done that.

Anyway, it worked out in our favor. We got a soft 5 and then Morehead State. As others have pointed out, if you want to make the Sweet 16 as a low seed, 12 and 13 seem like your best options, as you avoid 1/2/3.

We had a better resume when we got the 12 seed than we did when we got the 7 seed a year earlier. The committee does strange things, so you never know what to expect with them. That was my point.

 

[BuckinghamPalace]

 

[Spider2020]

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Chris Mooney or Chris Davis?

*cue someone else saying they both strike out a lot*

 

[BuckinghamPalace]

Chris Mooney or Chris Davis?

*cue someone else saying they both strike out a lot*

That is a great photograph of Coach Mooney taking batting practice. In the video he is taking some nice cuts.

 

[coach fezz]

good work Coach !

 

[wr70beh]

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Does his left elbow look normal?

 

[UR80sfan]

Mooney's approach to filling the remaining scholarship is showing a lot of confidence in job security. Instead of rushing out and signing a sub-par grad transfer, he seems to be focusing on quality and building the best team he can long term. He probably believes that the team currently has more depth than at anytime he has been at Richmond. I know we only have one scholarship available over the next year and a half. Do need need this scholarship for Crabtree or has one already been set aside for him? I realize we could use this for a one year grad transfer.

 

[MrTbone]

Mooney's approach to filling the remaining scholarship is showing a lot of confidence in job security. Instead of rushing out and signing a sub-par grad transfer, he seems to be focusing on quality and building the best team he can long term. He probably believes that the team currently has more depth than at anytime he has been at Richmond. I know we only have one scholarship available over the next year and a half. Do need need this scholarship for Crabtree or has one already been set aside for him? I realize we could use this for a one year grad transfer.

Crabtree is on scholarship already, just because he’s ineligible this year doesn’t mean the ship goes unused.

What you see as a display of confidence others will see as evidence of ineptitude. Only time will tell which is more accurate.

 

[Eight Legger]

Mooney's approach to filling the remaining scholarship is showing a lot of confidence in job security. Instead of rushing out and signing a sub-par grad transfer, he seems to be focusing on quality and building the best team he can long term. He probably believes that the team currently has more depth than at anytime he has been at Richmond. I know we only have one scholarship available over the next year and a half. Do need need this scholarship for Crabtree or has one already been set aside for him? I realize we could use this for a one year grad transfer.

Mooney's grad transfer philosophy seems to be to wait until all the quality transfers have signed and then drag the bottom of the lake to see what he can find.

 

[FrontRoyalSpider]

Mooney's grad transfer philosophy seems to be to wait until all the quality transfers have signed and then drag the bottom of the lake to see what he can find.

It is depressing knowing we're locked into this guy through the 2021-2022 season.

 

[gospidersgo]

He probably believes that the team currently has more depth than at anytime he has been at Richmond

You can't realistically believe what you just typed can you? Not trying to be inflammatory just hard to believe.

Look back at the 10-11 season. We had Garrett, Lindsay, Martel, Greg Robbins and Derrick Williams coming off the bench.

 

[urmite]

You can't realistically believe what you just typed can you? Not trying to be inflammatory just hard to believe.

Look back at the 10-11 season. We had Garrett, Lindsay, Martel, Greg Robbins and Derrick Williams coming off the bench.

Available on the bench, yes. But what were Robbins & Williams minutes in 10-11?

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

I'm unclear how leaving a scholarship unused for 2019-20 helps build the team long term. The scholarship is available in 2020 whether we use it or not.

Maybe it helps reduce the athletic department's budget deficit.

 

[gospidersgo]

But what were Robbins & Williams minutes in 10-11?

Looks like they each averaged 4 or 5 minutes.

I don't think it matters to my point, which is that the 10th and 11th options on that team were high quality players. We haven't seen that type of depth since then. Every time we think we have some depth it either gets exposed that they aren't as good as advertised or they get stuck on the bench and don't see any playing time so we never know for sure.

 

[VT4700]

Looks like they each averaged 4 or 5 minutes.

I don't think it matters to my point, which is that the 10th and 11th options on that team were high quality players. We haven't seen that type of depth since then. Every time we think we have some depth it either gets exposed that they aren't as good as advertised or they get stuck on the bench and don't see any playing time so we never know for sure.

Just stop already. Robbins and Williams were not part of the rotation in 2010-11. Robbins did not even play in the conference tournament or against Vandy. Williams only played two minutes the whole conference tourney, and also did not play against Vandy. The last 13 games, Williams played 18 minutes and Robbins 7.

 

[MrTbone]

Just stop already. Robbins and Williams were not part of the rotation in 2010-11. Robbins did not even play in the conference tournament or against Vandy. Williams only played two minutes the whole conference tourney, and also did not play against Vandy. The last 13 games, Williams played 18 minutes and Robin 7.

Does that change the substance of the post though? It would be tough sledding to objectively say that any team CM has had in his tenure here has more depth than the 2010-11 teams did. Perhaps we'll know in three years, but to gsg's point, this great depth notion has come up almost every year for the last 5+ years and proven to be inaccurate.

 

[gospidersgo]

4700 thank you for reinforcing my point, that guys as talented as those two couldn't even see consistent time on that team and subsequently earned the 10th and 11th most minutes. I really don't see where stating that the 2011 squad had more depth is controversial in any way.

 

[VT4700]

Does that change the substance of the post though? It would be tough sledding to objectively say that any team CM has had in his tenure here has more depth than the 2010-11 teams did. Perhaps we'll know in three years, but to gsg's point, this great depth notion has come up almost every year for the last 5+ years and proven to be inaccurate.

I figured you would be quick to reply to my post. I don't think it matters what I post or how accurate it is. I can always expect you to counter.

 

[VT4700]

4700 thank you for reinforcing my point, that guys as talented as those two couldn't even see consistent time on that team and subsequently earned the 10th and 11th most minutes. I really don't see where stating that the 2011 squad had more depth is controversial in any way.

Okay. Whatever you say.

 

[VT4700]

Does that change the substance of the post though? It would be tough sledding to objectively say that any team CM has had in his tenure here has more depth than the 2010-11 teams did. Perhaps we'll know in three years, but to gsg's point, this great depth notion has come up almost every year for the last 5+ years and proven to be inaccurate.

He originally said, "look back at the 10-11 season. We had Garrett, Lindsay, Martel, Greg Robbins and Derrick Williams coming off the bench.", so, yes, the fact that Robbins and Williams were not part of the rotation does make this post a little suspect. But, whatever, keep getting on me for being the one who was accurate here.

 

[SpiderDaMan]

4700 thank you for reinforcing my point, that guys as talented as those two couldn't even see consistent time on that team and subsequently earned the 10th and 11th most minutes. I really don't see where stating that the 2011 squad had more depth is controversial in any way.

No, stating the obvious is always enlightening...

 

[Eight Legger]

The 2011 team had a lot of talent and in retrospect was incredibly deep. Some of those bench guys were not ready for primo minutes that year, and so we didn't exactly know how good they were or weren't at that point. That became evident a few years later. Perhaps at some point we can look back at this year's team in a similar way, but there's no way to know that yet.

All that said, in the moment we all knew we had a very good and comfortably deep team in 10-11 at the time. We may think we have that this year too, but it's really impossible to say with any confidence because much of this core has combined to lose 40 games in two years.

 

[VT4700]

The 2011 team had a lot of talent and in retrospect was incredibly deep. Some of those bench guys were not ready for primo minutes that year, and so we didn't exactly know how good they were or weren't at that point. That became evident a few years later. Perhaps at some point we can look back at this year's team in a similar way, but there's no way to know that yet.

All that said, in the moment we all knew we had a very good and comfortably deep team in 10-11 at the time. We may think we have that this year too, but it's really impossible to say with any confidence because much of this core has combined to lose 40 games in two years.

This is maybe your best post ever.

 

[MrTbone]

I figured you would be quick to reply to my post. I don't think it matters what I post or how accurate it is. I can always expect you to counter.

First of all, I don’t argue with every post you make. Second, you are a reliable counterpoint to just about any criticism that’s made of CM or the program no matter how mild or bombastic it is. If those posts were made by someone else, I’d counterpoint them as well. You just happen to be in a very vocal minority.

 

[spiderman]

I think we have talented depth this year, but just like in 10-11 a couple of these guys aren't going to play much. you can only go about 8 or 9 deep.

 

[97spiderfan]

Not using your allotted scholarship this year is not "building to the future". Lots of our A-10 teams made big spring signees of high school seniors while we did nothing. So, all of those players will have a year of college under their belt and have matured while we will use our scholarship on a player who probably won't contribute for us for another 2 years. Sounds like a solid plan to me.

 

[MrTbone]

I think we have talented depth this year, but just like in 10-11 a couple of these guys aren't going to play much. you can only go about 8 or 9 deep.

I think people are caught up in the unprovable notion that the top 11 on this squad is somehow deeper than the top 11 on that squad. No one will know for another three years.

But I agree, we need to be around 8-9 deep. I will be ecstatic if we actually do that.

 

[97spiderfan]

We always go 8-9 deep but it the quality of those last 3-4 that is of question. I think for the first time we will have quality depth, not just guys who come in to give our starters breathers, which has been the modus operandus for several years. We still could have used a quality rim protector grad transfer though, but alas we have Mooney recruiting for us.

 

[MrTbone]

We always go 8-9 deep but it the quality of those last 3-4 that is of question. I think for the first time we will have quality depth, not just guys who come in to give our starters breathers, which has been the modus operandus for several years. We still could have used a quality rim protector grad transfer though, but alas we have Mooney recruiting for us.

I'm not sure where the threshold for "deep" starts, but let's presume it means you get at least 10mpg, here's how many guys were at or above that threshold the past 10 seasons:
2019 - 7 (Nick only played 6 games)
2018 - 7 (Solly transferred halfway through the season after being banished to the bench in OOC)
2017 - 7
2016 - 8 (last upperclassmen heavy team)
2015 - 8
2014 - 7 (Ced busted his knee and DWill "resigned" both in conference)
2013 - 10
2012 - 8
2011 - 8 (NCAA)
2010 - 8

Again, I don't know if a 10mpg threshold is the right yardstick, but we don't go much beyond 7-8 guys over the last 10 year span given that threshold.

 

[VT4700]

I'm not sure where the threshold for "deep" starts, but let's presume it means you get at least 10mpg, here's how many guys were at or above that threshold the past 10 seasons:
2019 - 7 (Nick only played 6 games)
2018 - 7 (Solly transferred halfway through the season after being banished to the bench in OOC)
2017 - 7
2016 - 8 (last upperclassmen heavy team)
2015 - 8
2014 - 7 (Ced busted his knee and DWill "resigned" both in conference)
2013 - 10
2012 - 8
2011 - 8 (NCAA)
2010 - 8

Again, I don't know if a 10mpg threshold is the right yardstick, but we don't go much beyond 7-8 guys over the last 10 year span given that threshold.

Good research. I think an eight-man rotation is plenty. Even 7 if you have the right 7. Depth is good though, for injuries and also maybe for playing a few more guys out of conference and then decide on the best seven or eight for conference play.

 

[SpiderRick]

None of this matters because we still have the same coach.

 

[gospidersgo]

Depth is about quality of players 6 through end of bench, not quantity of minutes played. Even the worst teams in the country still have 200 minutes per game to spread around.

 

[97spiderfan]

Depth is about quality of players 6 through end of bench, not quantity of minutes played. Even the worst teams in the country still have 200 minutes per game to spread around.

Exactly. We have had depth the past few years, it was just such a drastic drop off in ability from our starters to reserve. Our bench has just been pitiful the past few years, but yes, we played an 8 man rotation.

Also, you need more than an 8 deep bench because name a season or team where an injury does not occur. You have to plan for injuries because they happen.

 

[Gospiders06]

Just compete keep the games close. Offer discount tickets and the beer cold at the arena. Going up against teams like Wisconsin and Auburn never work well for us. Play a tougher schedule next year results same as soft schedule.

 

[UR80sfan]

It sounds like we are back to taking over threads with "Mooney should be fired. Obviously there is a lot of strong feelings relative to the coach. I think we should try to confine those conversation to this thread and stay on subject in other treads. I personally don't think the University's administration is committed to having the basketball program reach the level many on the board would like to see. As a result, they have different valuation criteria for the coach than the majority of people on this board.

 

[GKiller]

It sounds like we are back to taking over threads with "Mooney should be fired. Obviously there is a lot of strong feelings relative to the coach. I think we should try to confine those conversation to this thread and stay on subject in other treads. I personally don't think the University's administration is committed to having the basketball program reach the level many on the board would like to see. As a result, they have different valuation criteria for the coach than the majority of people on this board.

Good luck. I've been on Spiderfans for 20 years and threads go in tangents all the time and rarely stay on subject. Not unique to us though.

Mooney job status is core issue with Richmond men's basketball, it affects basically everything so it will hover over everything. Speaking of valuation criteria big hat no cattle Hardt I assume factored that in with his decision in March so now this is what you get.

Ps with the money we have invested I'm quite confident they don't expect to go 9 straight years without NCAA bid.